Everyone says sobriety is wonderful...
So many people said so many good things in response to your post. There are just a few things I wanted to add. Reading helped me immensely. You can look around SR for recommendations on books or on Amazon. I completely understand the thing about creepy dudes at AA meetings. I am 7 months sober and have only now started going to AA, mainly to try and find f2f community. The first meeting I checked out, I felt a horrible, creepy vibe. When I went last week to a different, all women's meeting it was the most opposite feeling when I walked in. I felt so comfortable and loved. I know this is said over and over but you definitely should shop around for meetings. They can be very, very different.
I don't know why you started drinking in the first place. I started early and I think that addicts have a tendency to want to avoid emotional pain and discomfort. I know I do. Alcohol is a quick way to do that. My recovery has definitely entailed learning to sit through feelings, being able to tolerate them, and just plain noticing them. When you start early, you never build all those coping skills that normal people do, so like everyone said, recovery is so much about building those skills. It is about self-discovery. I have also learned how deep alcohol runs. It has affected my life more than I ever imagined. My theory is that when you use substances you are used to a quick-fix. You can change your mood in a few minutes. Real change, however, takes much longer. You have to get used to things happening much more slowly in sobriety. However, the trade-off is that the change is long lasting. Happiness in sobriety does not, cannot happen overnight. It takes patience and perseverance. For me it wasn't until six months that I felt really happy to be sober and that euphoric feeling passed and now I just feel content, but I am confident that some day that euphoria will come again. Up until then I was just like you, unhappy with both, drinking had lost its allure, sobriety was difficult and I was pretty miserable. You just got to keep working at it. Finding a program of recovery really helps, even if that is one of your own design. Mine has been my therapist 2x a week and books and now I am adding Buddhist recovery meditation and AA into the mix.
I don't know why you started drinking in the first place. I started early and I think that addicts have a tendency to want to avoid emotional pain and discomfort. I know I do. Alcohol is a quick way to do that. My recovery has definitely entailed learning to sit through feelings, being able to tolerate them, and just plain noticing them. When you start early, you never build all those coping skills that normal people do, so like everyone said, recovery is so much about building those skills. It is about self-discovery. I have also learned how deep alcohol runs. It has affected my life more than I ever imagined. My theory is that when you use substances you are used to a quick-fix. You can change your mood in a few minutes. Real change, however, takes much longer. You have to get used to things happening much more slowly in sobriety. However, the trade-off is that the change is long lasting. Happiness in sobriety does not, cannot happen overnight. It takes patience and perseverance. For me it wasn't until six months that I felt really happy to be sober and that euphoric feeling passed and now I just feel content, but I am confident that some day that euphoria will come again. Up until then I was just like you, unhappy with both, drinking had lost its allure, sobriety was difficult and I was pretty miserable. You just got to keep working at it. Finding a program of recovery really helps, even if that is one of your own design. Mine has been my therapist 2x a week and books and now I am adding Buddhist recovery meditation and AA into the mix.
i spent a long time trying to find why i am alcoholic and why i started drinking right back in the begining...
I can root out a million reasons.....believe me ive looked at all of them.
but i kept running into the fact that i had problems before alcohol.
Withdrawn......reclusive..child..........crippled by fear...of most things.
you see alcohol was the solution in the begining for me.......it erased those fundemental problems.......at first.........then becoming my master.
So i finally stop after years of chronic alcoholism and guess how i feel...?
just like i did before i drank....
with a new list to add to the original.
Self loathing......aggressive......hateful.......reveng eful ......self obsessed.
controlling.......on and on.
Again i find i cant live life on lifes terms...........i dont have my poison to numb all that negativity....
So i finally decide to do anything to stay sober IF and only IF i can learn to be content and happy without it.
I considered medication for a while at first........i didnt go that route...the sponsor i had at the time said........give it a year and see how you feel..
So i work through the steps and life and my outlook on life changes...i start to realize that im getting better and learning to live life on lifes terms without booze.
i feel like the old me died.......truly thats how i feel.....i look back in my mind and see that person....but it dont "feel" like me.
i truly feel reborn.......it didnt come over night.........but today i feel i can cope with life without booze.
Yes sobriety is fantastic because i compare it to my last drink if it gets choppy...
And life does get choppy right......and i have self obssessed days when all i do is moan about me....BUT.
i dont ever ever want to be that person........before booze or when i was drinking......
you see the problem wasnt booze........it was me......booze just appeared to be the solution for a long time.
i strongly suggest to anynewcomers....to become a member of aa and get a sponsor to take them through the steps as outlined in the big book.
because it worked for me...........a hopeless drunk..
trucker.
I can root out a million reasons.....believe me ive looked at all of them.
but i kept running into the fact that i had problems before alcohol.
Withdrawn......reclusive..child..........crippled by fear...of most things.
you see alcohol was the solution in the begining for me.......it erased those fundemental problems.......at first.........then becoming my master.
So i finally stop after years of chronic alcoholism and guess how i feel...?
just like i did before i drank....
with a new list to add to the original.
Self loathing......aggressive......hateful.......reveng eful ......self obsessed.
controlling.......on and on.
Again i find i cant live life on lifes terms...........i dont have my poison to numb all that negativity....
So i finally decide to do anything to stay sober IF and only IF i can learn to be content and happy without it.
I considered medication for a while at first........i didnt go that route...the sponsor i had at the time said........give it a year and see how you feel..
So i work through the steps and life and my outlook on life changes...i start to realize that im getting better and learning to live life on lifes terms without booze.
i feel like the old me died.......truly thats how i feel.....i look back in my mind and see that person....but it dont "feel" like me.
i truly feel reborn.......it didnt come over night.........but today i feel i can cope with life without booze.
Yes sobriety is fantastic because i compare it to my last drink if it gets choppy...
And life does get choppy right......and i have self obssessed days when all i do is moan about me....BUT.
i dont ever ever want to be that person........before booze or when i was drinking......
you see the problem wasnt booze........it was me......booze just appeared to be the solution for a long time.
i strongly suggest to anynewcomers....to become a member of aa and get a sponsor to take them through the steps as outlined in the big book.
because it worked for me...........a hopeless drunk..
trucker.
i spent a long time trying to find why i am alcoholic and why i started drinking right back in the begining...
I can root out a million reasons.....believe me ive looked at all of them.
but i kept running into the fact that i had problems before alcohol.
Withdrawn......reclusive..child..........crippled by fear...of most things.
you see alcohol was the solution in the begining for me.......it erased those fundemental problems.......at first.........then becoming my master.
So i finally stop after years of chronic alcoholism and guess how i feel...?
just like i did before i drank....
with a new list to add to the original.
Self loathing......aggressive......hateful.......reveng eful ......self obsessed.
controlling.......on and on.
Again i find i cant live life on lifes terms...........i dont have my poison to numb all that negativity....
So i finally decide to do anything to stay sober IF and only IF i can learn to be content and happy without it.
I considered medication for a while at first........i didnt go that route...the sponsor i had at the time said........give it a year and see how you feel..
So i work through the steps and life and my outlook on life changes...i start to realize that im getting better and learning to live life on lifes terms without booze.
i feel like the old me died.......truly thats how i feel.....i look back in my mind and see that person....but it dont "feel" like me.
i truly feel reborn.......it didnt come over night.........but today i feel i can cope with life without booze.
Yes sobriety is fantastic because i compare it to my last drink if it gets choppy...
And life does get choppy right......and i have self obssessed days when all i do is moan about me....BUT.
i dont ever ever want to be that person........before booze or when i was drinking......
you see the problem wasnt booze........it was me......booze just appeared to be the solution for a long time.
i strongly suggest to anynewcomers....to become a member of aa and get a sponsor to take them through the steps as outlined in the big book.
because it worked for me...........a hopeless drunk..
trucker.
I can root out a million reasons.....believe me ive looked at all of them.
but i kept running into the fact that i had problems before alcohol.
Withdrawn......reclusive..child..........crippled by fear...of most things.
you see alcohol was the solution in the begining for me.......it erased those fundemental problems.......at first.........then becoming my master.
So i finally stop after years of chronic alcoholism and guess how i feel...?
just like i did before i drank....
with a new list to add to the original.
Self loathing......aggressive......hateful.......reveng eful ......self obsessed.
controlling.......on and on.
Again i find i cant live life on lifes terms...........i dont have my poison to numb all that negativity....
So i finally decide to do anything to stay sober IF and only IF i can learn to be content and happy without it.
I considered medication for a while at first........i didnt go that route...the sponsor i had at the time said........give it a year and see how you feel..
So i work through the steps and life and my outlook on life changes...i start to realize that im getting better and learning to live life on lifes terms without booze.
i feel like the old me died.......truly thats how i feel.....i look back in my mind and see that person....but it dont "feel" like me.
i truly feel reborn.......it didnt come over night.........but today i feel i can cope with life without booze.
Yes sobriety is fantastic because i compare it to my last drink if it gets choppy...
And life does get choppy right......and i have self obssessed days when all i do is moan about me....BUT.
i dont ever ever want to be that person........before booze or when i was drinking......
you see the problem wasnt booze........it was me......booze just appeared to be the solution for a long time.
i strongly suggest to anynewcomers....to become a member of aa and get a sponsor to take them through the steps as outlined in the big book.
because it worked for me...........a hopeless drunk..
trucker.
Thanx for coming to SR. You help all of us...
Mark
Aren't you sweet I can use all the positivity I can get tonight...I am restless as hell, thinking ahead, when I know I need to take one day at a time, but that's always been a hard concept for me to grasp, being I'm such a worrier...Normally I'm pretty tired by this time, not tonight, I'm pretty awake...I think a few things in particular have really taken up alot of space in my head today and I can't seem to shake it off...I don't have my alcohol...so can't medicate whatsoever and full of raw emotion... Thank you for your encouraging words
Well, you pretty much answered it. You were already down in the dumps when you started drinking. Before that, you were OK. So this means, at some point in your life, you were HAPPY and SOBER.
So you WILL get to that point again. There is no, one size fits all, solution to having a happy, sober, life.
There are MANY things, to combine, for you to try in order to get and maintain a happy, sober life:
Attend Meetings.
Do the 12 steps.
Find new Hobbies (cooking, sports, sewing, puzzles, cars, building small things, etc).
Write down your thoughts and feelings.
If you believe in a HP, pray daily.
Try to get back into some of your former favorite hobbies.
Keep coming back to SR.
Walk.
Play.
Hang out with friends.
Am I forgetting anything? I don't know, but there are so many things out there, in life, to enjoy and help make life feel great again. It takes a while, I understand. I am still not totally there, myself, but I feel so much better no longer smoking crack. Trying to score it. Being paranoid about the cops. Stealing. Lying..
Life will never be perfect, but, from where I came from, it can only keep getting better. I am not going to be a slave to crack any longer. I will be a mother, sister, daughter, lover, friend, and RECOVERING addict.
I know the feeling. I had often wondered myself, in very early recovery, why the hell I should stop smoking crack. I felt so safe inside my little "world", but it was a fantasy world that I don't belong in. It's hard to explain, but I'd rather make happiness REAL with some hard work than FAKE with crack cocaine....
So you WILL get to that point again. There is no, one size fits all, solution to having a happy, sober, life.
There are MANY things, to combine, for you to try in order to get and maintain a happy, sober life:
Attend Meetings.
Do the 12 steps.
Find new Hobbies (cooking, sports, sewing, puzzles, cars, building small things, etc).
Write down your thoughts and feelings.
If you believe in a HP, pray daily.
Try to get back into some of your former favorite hobbies.
Keep coming back to SR.
Walk.
Play.
Hang out with friends.
Am I forgetting anything? I don't know, but there are so many things out there, in life, to enjoy and help make life feel great again. It takes a while, I understand. I am still not totally there, myself, but I feel so much better no longer smoking crack. Trying to score it. Being paranoid about the cops. Stealing. Lying..
Life will never be perfect, but, from where I came from, it can only keep getting better. I am not going to be a slave to crack any longer. I will be a mother, sister, daughter, lover, friend, and RECOVERING addict.
I know the feeling. I had often wondered myself, in very early recovery, why the hell I should stop smoking crack. I felt so safe inside my little "world", but it was a fantasy world that I don't belong in. It's hard to explain, but I'd rather make happiness REAL with some hard work than FAKE with crack cocaine....
Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: NW Ohio
Posts: 164
Thank you all for your wonderful, inspirational words...I think AA would be a good step for me..I had posted before there are no meetings in my area..(just my luck)...I would like to join an all women's meeting....I have to call and get some info on when and where they are...I have a feeling I might have to drive a little bit, but I don't care about that..I just want to start working on being sober and HAPPY...I don't want to just tolerate the days without drinking like I am now...I wanna be able to ENJOY and be HAPPY being sober...I hope I will find my way there.
I hope you feel better.
Well, you pretty much answered it. You were already down in the dumps when you started drinking. Before that, you were OK. So this means, at some point in your life, you were HAPPY and SOBER.
So you WILL get to that point again. There is no, one size fits all, solution to having a happy, sober, life.
There are MANY things, to combine, for you to try in order to get and maintain a happy, sober life:
Attend Meetings.
Do the 12 steps.
Find new Hobbies (cooking, sports, sewing, puzzles, cars, building small things, etc).
Write down your thoughts and feelings.
If you believe in a HP, pray daily.
Try to get back into some of your former favorite hobbies.
Keep coming back to SR.
Walk.
Play.
Hang out with friends.
Am I forgetting anything? I don't know, but there are so many things out there, in life, to enjoy and help make life feel great again. It takes a while, I understand. I am still not totally there, myself, but I feel so much better no longer smoking crack. Trying to score it. Being paranoid about the cops. Stealing. Lying..
Life will never be perfect, but, from where I came from, it can only keep getting better. I am not going to be a slave to crack any longer. I will be a mother, sister, daughter, lover, friend, and RECOVERING addict.
I know the feeling. I had often wondered myself, in very early recovery, why the hell I should stop smoking crack. I felt so safe inside my little "world", but it was a fantasy world that I don't belong in. It's hard to explain, but I'd rather make happiness REAL with some hard work than FAKE with crack cocaine....
So you WILL get to that point again. There is no, one size fits all, solution to having a happy, sober, life.
There are MANY things, to combine, for you to try in order to get and maintain a happy, sober life:
Attend Meetings.
Do the 12 steps.
Find new Hobbies (cooking, sports, sewing, puzzles, cars, building small things, etc).
Write down your thoughts and feelings.
If you believe in a HP, pray daily.
Try to get back into some of your former favorite hobbies.
Keep coming back to SR.
Walk.
Play.
Hang out with friends.
Am I forgetting anything? I don't know, but there are so many things out there, in life, to enjoy and help make life feel great again. It takes a while, I understand. I am still not totally there, myself, but I feel so much better no longer smoking crack. Trying to score it. Being paranoid about the cops. Stealing. Lying..
Life will never be perfect, but, from where I came from, it can only keep getting better. I am not going to be a slave to crack any longer. I will be a mother, sister, daughter, lover, friend, and RECOVERING addict.
I know the feeling. I had often wondered myself, in very early recovery, why the hell I should stop smoking crack. I felt so safe inside my little "world", but it was a fantasy world that I don't belong in. It's hard to explain, but I'd rather make happiness REAL with some hard work than FAKE with crack cocaine....
Here's what I wish, I wish it was as bad at first as it was at the last.
I'd of saved a lot of heart ache for everyone concerned!!
Peer pressure mostly at first, at the end a form of isolating myself from the real world
I wouldn't trade my sober life for anything today
I'd of saved a lot of heart ache for everyone concerned!!
Peer pressure mostly at first, at the end a form of isolating myself from the real world
I wouldn't trade my sober life for anything today
Thanks for this thread sweets cause i'm feeling like you and all these answers have helped me enormously well enough anyway to get through today and I am told that is what we're supposed to be doing.
I'm glad...makes me feel good if I can help, I need all the help I can get too...I always look ahead so one of the hardest things for me to do is learning to take it "one day at a time"...I have to work on that...it's tough, because I'm so used to worrying and getting depressed when I think about certain things in the near future...but I keep telling myself one day at a time...actually one hour at a time is all I can do now.
can't breathe tomorrow's air, sweets......life happens in the now, from moment to moment, breath to breath. sometimes when i get kinda jammed up about life i repeat to myself:
...in this moment, i have everything i need. i am a loved child of the Universe and all is well.
and when that fails, i borrow from Seinfeld
SERENITY NOW! SERENITY NOW!!!
...in this moment, i have everything i need. i am a loved child of the Universe and all is well.
and when that fails, i borrow from Seinfeld
SERENITY NOW! SERENITY NOW!!!
Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 2,126
I was just pondering this...And by no means does this post promote drinking whatsoever, I would just like some feedback...If sobriety is so wonderful...Why did I start drinking in the first place? All the emotions that I couldn't handle, I found alcohol numbed for me...I think the drinking goes very deep...I need to find out how to actually be happy sober, I know many of you said that sobriety is great...but I don't think being sober for any amount of time now will make me enjoy life.....If I wasn't happy sober before, how can I be happy now? Especially after getting used to drowning my sorrows in alcohol...I remember at one point I hardly touched alcohol, never even thought about it...but apparently when my life took a bad turn for a few years and I got very hurt and depressed I started drinking...I'm not happy being sober, and I'm not happy drinking, (only puts in a decent mood temporarily until it wears off ofcourse)So what I'm asking is, besides quitting drinking alone, do you think therapy or something else is necessary in order for me to be happy living a sober life? Thanks.
Hey Sweets79 ----
While reading your Original Post, I found myself thinking and realizing that you were coming at this problem from/thru a couple of faulty assumptions.
The first assumption would be that you even if you were sober before you started drinking, why then did you start drinking in the first place since you must have been sober so why did you start. Before you started drinking.....etc. ergo, you weren't drinking, therefore you were sober.....? Not true.....not drinking and being sober/sobriety are two distinctly different things.
The second assumption I saw was that 'being sober' or 'something' makes a person enjoy life or be happy......again, Not true. There are plenty of folks out there who don't drink and hate life and are miserable. Enjoying life and being happy are decisions that we have to make for ourselves, regardless of the situations in which we may find ourselves.
......and the line....'everybody says sobriety is wonderful......? Whoops....not true again. For me, sobriety just is......neither wonderful nor the worst....it just is.........sobriety. I'm the one that makes the decision to be wonderful/happy/enjoy life....and you can to, but regardless of outside stimuli......soooooo, here's to a wonderful, fun-filled, happy day, today.........!!!!
NoelleR
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hey Sweets79 ----
While reading your Original Post, I found myself thinking and realizing that you were coming at this problem from/thru a couple of faulty assumptions.
The first assumption would be that you even if you were sober before you started drinking, why then did you start drinking in the first place since you must have been sober so why did you start. Before you started drinking.....etc. ergo, you weren't drinking, therefore you were sober.....? Not true.....not drinking and being sober/sobriety are two distinctly different things.
The second assumption I saw was that 'being sober' or 'something' makes a person enjoy life or be happy......again, Not true. There are plenty of folks out there who don't drink and hate life and are miserable. Enjoying life and being happy are decisions that we have to make for ourselves, regardless of the situations in which we may find ourselves.
......and the line....'everybody says sobriety is wonderful......? Whoops....not true again. For me, sobriety just is......neither wonderful nor the worst....it just is.........sobriety... I know I'm the one that makes the decision to be wonderful/happy/enjoy life....and you can to, but regardless of outside stimuli......soooooo, here's to a wonderful, fun-filled, happy day, today.........!!!!
NoelleR
Hey Sweets79 ----
While reading your Original Post, I found myself thinking and realizing that you were coming at this problem from/thru a couple of faulty assumptions.
The first assumption would be that you even if you were sober before you started drinking, why then did you start drinking in the first place since you must have been sober so why did you start. Before you started drinking.....etc. ergo, you weren't drinking, therefore you were sober.....? Not true.....not drinking and being sober/sobriety are two distinctly different things.
The second assumption I saw was that 'being sober' or 'something' makes a person enjoy life or be happy......again, Not true. There are plenty of folks out there who don't drink and hate life and are miserable. Enjoying life and being happy are decisions that we have to make for ourselves, regardless of the situations in which we may find ourselves.
......and the line....'everybody says sobriety is wonderful......? Whoops....not true again. For me, sobriety just is......neither wonderful nor the worst....it just is.........sobriety... I know I'm the one that makes the decision to be wonderful/happy/enjoy life....and you can to, but regardless of outside stimuli......soooooo, here's to a wonderful, fun-filled, happy day, today.........!!!!
NoelleR
sweets - all of these questions you keep asking out loud are good and i would again encourage you to get involved with AA and start working the steps, because THAT is how you will get to the answers. WE can't answer them for you. they say recovery is an inside job....and it is, it's about YOUR insides, which don't look like mine or anybody elses.
i've also noticed you're starting to get defensive when you ask a question and don't like the answer. try and keep an open mind and remember why we are ALL here......to help each other get and stay sober.
i've also noticed you're starting to get defensive when you ask a question and don't like the answer. try and keep an open mind and remember why we are ALL here......to help each other get and stay sober.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,095
But more to the point, if I wasn't happy before (not drinking), then how am I going to be happy again returning to that life (not drinking)? Here's a secret for you. I got sober because I just wanted to get my life back. Everything was in shambles and I couldn't go on. When I recovered through the 12 steps of AA, I got a completely different life far better than I'd ever known. Knowing the life I have now, I wouldn't want my pre-drinking life back. And it seemed happy enough.
You keep asking how are we to be happy in sobriety. The answer has been given.
Well, I don't know if I started drinking way back when because I was unhappy. I just started drinking for all the same reasons everyone else did at around that typical age. So the assumption that I started drinking because I was unhappy is erroneous. I just started drinking for whatever reason not knowing how far down it would take me.
But more to the point, if I wasn't happy before (not drinking), then how am I going to be happy again returning to that life (not drinking)? Here's a secret for you. I got sober because I just wanted to get my life back. Everything was in shambles and I couldn't go on. When I recovered through the 12 steps of AA, I got a completely different life far better than I'd ever known. Knowing the life I have now, I wouldn't want my pre-drinking life back. And it seemed happy enough.
You keep asking how are we to be happy in sobriety. The answer has been given.
But more to the point, if I wasn't happy before (not drinking), then how am I going to be happy again returning to that life (not drinking)? Here's a secret for you. I got sober because I just wanted to get my life back. Everything was in shambles and I couldn't go on. When I recovered through the 12 steps of AA, I got a completely different life far better than I'd ever known. Knowing the life I have now, I wouldn't want my pre-drinking life back. And it seemed happy enough.
You keep asking how are we to be happy in sobriety. The answer has been given.
Sweets,
I have been around SR for many years and not everyone says sobriety is wonderful. I think for some people it is wonderful right away. Other people have a lot of debris to work through, messes that were made while they were drinking. And, sometimes that can be a slow process. But, I do think most people find a peace in their lives that they didn't have when they were in active addiction.
For me, I was not very happy before I began drinking. For many years I was depressed, anxious and a control-freak. That all ended up with a few years of drinking. When I began recovery I had to go back and deal with the issues of depression, anxious and letting go. It has been hard work and overwhelmingly amazing.
I have been around SR for many years and not everyone says sobriety is wonderful. I think for some people it is wonderful right away. Other people have a lot of debris to work through, messes that were made while they were drinking. And, sometimes that can be a slow process. But, I do think most people find a peace in their lives that they didn't have when they were in active addiction.
For me, I was not very happy before I began drinking. For many years I was depressed, anxious and a control-freak. That all ended up with a few years of drinking. When I began recovery I had to go back and deal with the issues of depression, anxious and letting go. It has been hard work and overwhelmingly amazing.
Sweets,
I have been around SR for many years and not everyone says sobriety is wonderful. I think for some people it is wonderful right away. Other people have a lot of debris to work through, messes that were made while they were drinking. And, sometimes that can be a slow process. But, I do think most people find a peace in their lives that they didn't have when they were in active addiction.
For me, I was not very happy before I began drinking. For many years I was depressed, anxious and a control-freak. That all ended up with a few years of drinking. When I began recovery I had to go back and deal with the issues of depression, anxious and letting go. It has been hard work and overwhelmingly amazing.
I have been around SR for many years and not everyone says sobriety is wonderful. I think for some people it is wonderful right away. Other people have a lot of debris to work through, messes that were made while they were drinking. And, sometimes that can be a slow process. But, I do think most people find a peace in their lives that they didn't have when they were in active addiction.
For me, I was not very happy before I began drinking. For many years I was depressed, anxious and a control-freak. That all ended up with a few years of drinking. When I began recovery I had to go back and deal with the issues of depression, anxious and letting go. It has been hard work and overwhelmingly amazing.
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)