Can an alcoholic "cut back" instead of completely quitting?
Community Greeter
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Upstate New York
Posts: 51,569
As usual, a good discussion! Just before Christmas I got a forwarded article from a friend, telling me about Moderation Management. (I had heard of it, and that one of the founders is currently in jail for vehicular homicide, so what does that tell you?) The article was meant to help drinkers through the holidays & said the specific amounts that are safe to drink without becoming impaired. Apparently, MM does stress that moderation cannot work for alcoholics, only abstinence. One concern about MM is that alcoholics might try this approach and not get the real help they truly need. People could die, or cause accidents, while trying to moderate when that isn't an option for them.
(This was discussed on SR in the past, wish I could find the thread....) It's good that you came here, hippy, hope we can help you now and in the future if needed.
(This was discussed on SR in the past, wish I could find the thread....) It's good that you came here, hippy, hope we can help you now and in the future if needed.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 44
[QUOTE=FLwife;2039326] Welcome FLwife. I'm also a newbie. I read your post (it disturbed me). To be frank, I think you DON'T have an alcohol problem...but a relationship problem. I'll leave it at that. Personally, I would never be with a man who had such an adversity to something I enjoyed- especially something that didn't cost much and I did in front of him. It's not like you're staying out late at bars and neglecting the household, right? I don't mean to hurt you...but just being honest.
Originally Posted by Ago 
Try drinking 2 drinks a day for 10 days, if you are an alcoholic you may learn something surprising about yourself.
that's 3 oz of hard liquor, 2 beers (not 40's) or two glasses (6oz) of wine.
I got 5 bucks that says you can't do it
***********
this is more than I have been drinking (2 glasses of wine, take 2 days off per week) but I am accused of being an Alcoholic by my husband. (He can't drink, gets headaches etc...)
I made another thread asking about this problem. Do I have addiction (as he says?) or do I not??? Help!
that's 3 oz of hard liquor, 2 beers (not 40's) or two glasses (6oz) of wine.
I got 5 bucks that says you can't do it
***********
this is more than I have been drinking (2 glasses of wine, take 2 days off per week) but I am accused of being an Alcoholic by my husband. (He can't drink, gets headaches etc...)
I made another thread asking about this problem. Do I have addiction (as he says?) or do I not??? Help!
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 44
I went out last night to dinner and a movie with Mr. Hippychicky. I had 1 lite beer early in the eve, then a glass of wine a few hours later as a nightcap. None today. I'm really proud of myself and doing well mentally. I must add that I've also embarked on a very healthy eating regime/diet plan AND started jogging. I think if you incorporate a healthy lifestyle along WITH moderation in drinking.... for some this can work. I'll try it and see what happens. I'll keep all of you posted and again, THANK YOU for your help and for your support. The love from this site (you) is AMAZING!!!
Knucklehead
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Davenport, WA
Posts: 4,005
Originally Posted by Hevyn
(I had heard of it, and that one of the founders is currently in jail for vehicular homicide, so what does that tell you?)
Knucklehead
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Davenport, WA
Posts: 4,005
Originally Posted by Ago
Try drinking 2 drinks a day for 10 days, if you are an alcoholic you may learn something surprising about yourself.
that's 3 oz of hard liquor, 2 beers (not 40's) or two glasses (6oz) of wine.
I got 5 bucks that says you can't do it
(this is like the double dog dare part from A Christmas Story)
but seriously, try it, the results may be illuminating, alcoholics can quit for 30 days on occasion, but stick 2 drinks in an alcoholic and things look a little different.
To me that's the best "drinking litmus test" I know of.
Let me know how that works for you, I'd be interested to hear, I've never heard of anyone who was alcoholic be able to "pass" that test.
that's 3 oz of hard liquor, 2 beers (not 40's) or two glasses (6oz) of wine.
I got 5 bucks that says you can't do it
(this is like the double dog dare part from A Christmas Story)
but seriously, try it, the results may be illuminating, alcoholics can quit for 30 days on occasion, but stick 2 drinks in an alcoholic and things look a little different.
To me that's the best "drinking litmus test" I know of.
Let me know how that works for you, I'd be interested to hear, I've never heard of anyone who was alcoholic be able to "pass" that test.
1) I'm a lightweight, so a more fair and difficult test for me would be just one drink.
2) When I'm able to do that, I'm usually smoking pot as well.
But the real deal breaker for me is that I'm still a slave to those couple of drinks and I'm still subject to unpredictable episodes of losing control that are painful and dangerous.
Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Western WA
Posts: 132
My brain tells me that 4-6 a day isn't all that bad. I suppose that's the disease talking
Personally 4-6 beers a day in my minds eye is nothing. I can easily do that in 1-2 hours
Just my two cents.......I work in the healthcare field, and the area that I work in requires me to evaulate organ health and function. When looking at liver and pancreas, we use the general rule that more than 2 drinks/day average, we will likely see damage to both of these organs. Pancreas even more susceptible to less frequent "binges". Just find it interesting how what seems like "nothing" to you is still, realistically, a big deal to your body.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Highlands, TX
Posts: 1,192
As was pointed out earlier, I found this saying in the rooms of AA to be very true for me. When I CONTROLLED my drink I couldn't ENJOY it. When I ENJOYED my drinking I couldn't CONTROL it.
The last part of my drinking career I had acknowledged that I was an alcoholic but I still labored under the delusion that somehow, some way, I could cut back or taper down enough to not go through daily withdrawals but still be able to drink. It NEVER worked for me. If someone who proclaims themselves "alcoholic" is able to moderate successfully I would have them read the Big Book of AA. I would be inclined to believe that they had not yet crossed that "invisible line" into alcoholism and were "problem drinkers" who when sufficiently motivated are able to stop.
It seems that you are going to try the moderation expirament and I do wish you well but also know that we are here for support regardless of how it turns out. Please be careful with the whole "last hurrah" thing. That can get very dangerous. God knows I gave myself alcohol poisoning many times and wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy.
Take care,
Kellye
The last part of my drinking career I had acknowledged that I was an alcoholic but I still labored under the delusion that somehow, some way, I could cut back or taper down enough to not go through daily withdrawals but still be able to drink. It NEVER worked for me. If someone who proclaims themselves "alcoholic" is able to moderate successfully I would have them read the Big Book of AA. I would be inclined to believe that they had not yet crossed that "invisible line" into alcoholism and were "problem drinkers" who when sufficiently motivated are able to stop.
It seems that you are going to try the moderation expirament and I do wish you well but also know that we are here for support regardless of how it turns out. Please be careful with the whole "last hurrah" thing. That can get very dangerous. God knows I gave myself alcohol poisoning many times and wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy.
Take care,
Kellye
Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: miami
Posts: 19
Hi Hippychick -
I could moderate for a few nights - meaning having under three drinks. I could quit for three nights - then I would say to myself as a reward for being sober (yeah!) I will drink tonight. Only tonight. Only one night always turned into a month of nights. At which point I would realize I was way off my moderation program - yikes - and had to start at day one all over.
For me, it was about a certain level of drunkedness that felt good. And the more I drank, the higher my tolerance, the more booze I needed to hit that level.
And I also went far beyond that level on most nights...
Which for me led to frightening lapses in memory, waking up in the morning dehydrated and dizzy from drink. My skin pink and puffy most of the time, cranky from my hangover and mentally obsessed by my drinking (my thoughts: should I quit? Yeah, probably. Maybe next week. No. Definitely next week. But tonight? I drink) I lost three years to those stupid thoughts and actions.
So no - moderation did not work for me - but I also think that is part of why I am an alcoholic - I always want one more.
I don't think about not ever drinking. I just worry about today.
It's a very personal judgement - can you moderate drinking? Only you know the answer
Good luck & I hope this helps.
kels
I could moderate for a few nights - meaning having under three drinks. I could quit for three nights - then I would say to myself as a reward for being sober (yeah!) I will drink tonight. Only tonight. Only one night always turned into a month of nights. At which point I would realize I was way off my moderation program - yikes - and had to start at day one all over.
For me, it was about a certain level of drunkedness that felt good. And the more I drank, the higher my tolerance, the more booze I needed to hit that level.
And I also went far beyond that level on most nights...
Which for me led to frightening lapses in memory, waking up in the morning dehydrated and dizzy from drink. My skin pink and puffy most of the time, cranky from my hangover and mentally obsessed by my drinking (my thoughts: should I quit? Yeah, probably. Maybe next week. No. Definitely next week. But tonight? I drink) I lost three years to those stupid thoughts and actions.
So no - moderation did not work for me - but I also think that is part of why I am an alcoholic - I always want one more.
I don't think about not ever drinking. I just worry about today.
It's a very personal judgement - can you moderate drinking? Only you know the answer
Good luck & I hope this helps.
kels
Hangovers Suck!
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Southeastern U.S.
Posts: 176
Hi again Hippychicky!
Here's my take on "Normal Drinkers": They do not exist. Sound silly? Perhaps, but hear me out a minute. Alcohol is toxic to humans. What normal person would drink toxic liquid? Seriously. Consumption of alcohol is a result of social pressure for the class of drinker known a "Normal", and for people like me, it is purely for the effect of the desired level of drunkenness. And isn't it interesting how that level of drunkenness desired keeps increasing, as the hangover intensity increases to the point that we seek help and solace here at SR or at AA, RR or SMART, or whatever it takes to get relief.
Think about this: The majority of us drinkers had to learn to overcome the foulness of alcohol and work to acquire a taste for our preferred beverages. The intent being to learn to enjoy the alcohol buzz without vomiting. If it were not for the buzz, what would be the point of consuming "moderately"? If you enjoy drinking and look forward to the buzz, you are leaning toward addiction eventually, even if you think you are under control.
Think back on how you felt when you made your first post here. You came here for a reason, and you are helping all of us to remember the emotions and thoughts we have all been through, some of us many, many times, and I thank you for that. I think the best thing you can do is try the drinking litmus test someone has already suggested and see how that works for you, because you must ultimately decide the course of action you must take.
No matter what you decide, keep us posted and let us know how it is going.
"When the student is ready, the teacher appears".
Here's my take on "Normal Drinkers": They do not exist. Sound silly? Perhaps, but hear me out a minute. Alcohol is toxic to humans. What normal person would drink toxic liquid? Seriously. Consumption of alcohol is a result of social pressure for the class of drinker known a "Normal", and for people like me, it is purely for the effect of the desired level of drunkenness. And isn't it interesting how that level of drunkenness desired keeps increasing, as the hangover intensity increases to the point that we seek help and solace here at SR or at AA, RR or SMART, or whatever it takes to get relief.
Think about this: The majority of us drinkers had to learn to overcome the foulness of alcohol and work to acquire a taste for our preferred beverages. The intent being to learn to enjoy the alcohol buzz without vomiting. If it were not for the buzz, what would be the point of consuming "moderately"? If you enjoy drinking and look forward to the buzz, you are leaning toward addiction eventually, even if you think you are under control.
Think back on how you felt when you made your first post here. You came here for a reason, and you are helping all of us to remember the emotions and thoughts we have all been through, some of us many, many times, and I thank you for that. I think the best thing you can do is try the drinking litmus test someone has already suggested and see how that works for you, because you must ultimately decide the course of action you must take.
No matter what you decide, keep us posted and let us know how it is going.
"When the student is ready, the teacher appears".
Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 53
If you can cut back I don't think your an alcoholic. Because i have tried cutting back over the last few months but i know now that i cant. I just wanted to keep thinking that i might be able to "teach" myself how to drink responsibly. it was just an excuse so i wouldnt have to change my ways.
Alcoholism is genetic. I am one and so is my father, when i told him that i was quitting we talked about it and he told me that i wouldn't be able to cut back. It kind of made me angry at first... haha of course i didnt listen even though in the back of my mind i always new it was true. I tried cutting back and it was horrible i wish i would have just stopped at that point because i had stopped for 2 months previously.
If you are thinking of quitting i suggest just not stopping but taking note of some helpful ways to recover. I never did that, and it lead to me relapsing several times. you probably already know whether or not you will be able to cut back already.
Alcoholism is genetic. I am one and so is my father, when i told him that i was quitting we talked about it and he told me that i wouldn't be able to cut back. It kind of made me angry at first... haha of course i didnt listen even though in the back of my mind i always new it was true. I tried cutting back and it was horrible i wish i would have just stopped at that point because i had stopped for 2 months previously.
If you are thinking of quitting i suggest just not stopping but taking note of some helpful ways to recover. I never did that, and it lead to me relapsing several times. you probably already know whether or not you will be able to cut back already.
Moving out of Limbo
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Today
Posts: 343
I tried to moderate my using quite a few times. I always slept better at night if I had the option and a bag of good stuff tucked away.
But when it was gone, I compulsively went on search missions to find more. So whether I was "moderating" or not, that didn't matter. I just wanted to be high all the time. So I have to change my lifestyle now.
But when it was gone, I compulsively went on search missions to find more. So whether I was "moderating" or not, that didn't matter. I just wanted to be high all the time. So I have to change my lifestyle now.
Member
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,861
I'm not sure if I really want to completely quit the alcohol. I definately know I want to/need to cut back, but can't imagine going the rest of my life without a drink.
When drinking, can you guarantee everytime that you will not drink too much? Can you always stop? Everytime? No exceptions????
Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: venice,fl
Posts: 35
thank you all for the feedback. I, again, am the great justifier.
Well, my 4-5 beers turned into 8-9 beers, and on weekends, 12. Ouch. First step, admit you have a problem????
I admit it. Now, if I could only take that first step........again.
Drinking is like my friend. I'm not sloppy, I don't black out, It's like hanging with my bud (no pun intended) after work.
This site is the best thing for someone like me. I know, in my heart what to do, just need to take that leap, again, and possibly again, and again.
Thanks again.
Well, my 4-5 beers turned into 8-9 beers, and on weekends, 12. Ouch. First step, admit you have a problem????
I admit it. Now, if I could only take that first step........again.
Drinking is like my friend. I'm not sloppy, I don't black out, It's like hanging with my bud (no pun intended) after work.
This site is the best thing for someone like me. I know, in my heart what to do, just need to take that leap, again, and possibly again, and again.
Thanks again.
mergirl
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Paradise
Posts: 4,161
Since my last binge I haven't spoken to most of my friends (I don't think I ever will again). I have to work to repair the damage I did that night with my sister and children. My self worth went to zero, and beliefs on what kind of person I was were shattered. I wish I could take back that one last binge and quit BEFORE it happened. It's not that I don't wonder if I could moderate, I almost always did before that night. Its that I absolutely can NOT risk anything like that ever happening again. Good Luck~
Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 353
I tried it, I couldn't do it. It seems like I always have to be addicted to something. First it was food, then ciggarettes (sp?) the alcohol. Thankfully I never got into drugs. I thought I could cut back and have a drink like a normal person, but it just never worked. I drank way too much each time I set out to have a beer, or glass of wine. Now I'm trying to get addicted to exercise, so far it's working, I feel good, I'm looking a little better, and I'm not missing the alcohol./...
Good luck to you,
Heavy
Good luck to you,
Heavy
Resident
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 4,150
I have spent 40 years moderating and apologizing so I vote no.
Uglyeyes. I am sure that your sister will be able to forgive you if you get better. Try to be positive. It will make it a lot easier. Without the alcohol she knows that you are a good person.
Uglyeyes. I am sure that your sister will be able to forgive you if you get better. Try to be positive. It will make it a lot easier. Without the alcohol she knows that you are a good person.
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