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food stamps, drugs & booze

Old 10-26-2008, 02:30 AM
  # 21 (permalink)  
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I am sad now....check my post on my great day under professional addict thread, becasue I was happy. i am torn now, because I have seen the results of people not helping, which is why I suggested talking to the base padre....no one will be in trouble and if there is a problem in the neighbors house the kids and parents will possibly get the help they need. Ultimately I am a huge advocate for helping the family...especially the kids. My dad was in the RCMP here in canada and he was a hard core drinker and I believe he paved the way for me to be a drunk too and ultimately my addictive nature and I wish one of my neighbors would have made a call and had our household looked at so that maybe my influences would have been different....don't get me wrong its not all my dads fault, because he had his own demons and didn't know what influence his drinking had on me and my brother and sisters (thankfully I took most of the backlash of his drinking and my brother and sisters didn't see or experience the dark side of his drinking). I remember still the very first time I had a drink...don't remember that whole night, but I remember the drink...for some reason I wanted to know what was so great about this crap in a bottle that dad needed to have it all the time and why did he change so much after he had it...I drank it, loved it and turned to it....I wish my neighbors said something then....who knows I may have never drank and things would be different.

The big thing for me now is that far to often people sit back and do nothing when they have a chance to act, and how many times do we see on TV people are afraid to do something....even after someone dies.

In life we all make good and bad decissions and in many cases for the drunks and druggies it is someone else that kicks us in the a$$ after we make many bad ones. I know there are many that say today I am going to quit and they decide on their own, but even then it may be because someone else helped them out. I had police, co-workers, fiends, family and many others tell me to get help, but I didn't listen and the threat of losing the best woman in my world was what I needed, but without her flipping my world upside down I would most likely be either in jail or dead...and its because someone called me on my lifestyle...and I tell her every day how greatful I am.

Silence can be deadly and by not saying things to help our friends, family and neighbors is almost as bad if not worse that being the one that is doing the hurting or neglecting. When I had to leave the Navy it was because someone from an AA meeting I was forced to go to during my 28 days rehab saw me drunk and called the MP's to pick me up. He was worried I would hurt myself, someone else and/or end up in jail again....I was ticked off, but now greatful...yes I lost my military career, but I gained a huge a$$ kicking that would be significant 2 yrs later when my wife (girlfriend at the time) hit me with the same dose of reality and a$$ kicking.

Again......Call your base padre...he will get help if it is available this way.

This is just my thoughts and I base them on my own experiences, which obviously my perception.
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Old 10-26-2008, 02:50 AM
  # 22 (permalink)  
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I just thought of this quote I heard once (I haven't got it completely right, but...):

All that is needed for evil to thrive is for good men to do nothing.
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Old 10-26-2008, 05:46 AM
  # 23 (permalink)  
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Chuck, don't be sad now. You gave some really great advice, so just by doing that, you might have just encouraged me to do the right thing. I know what I need to do. The military has some really great resources. I know I can talk to someone anonymously & they will know how to handle the situation. It seems like this really struck a chord with you. Again I didn't mean to turn this into a big deal. I was just getting angry watching someone who whines to me all the time about not having money, but then also spills her guts & tells me every detail of her life & how she wastes her money on drugs. I don't know how it could not affect me in some way. I think anyone would be a little upset about it, even if they had made some stupid mistakes in the past.

Butterfly, I really like that quote. Thank you again for your words of advice. Good luck to both of you in your recovery.
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Old 10-26-2008, 05:48 AM
  # 24 (permalink)  
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Think carefully before you act. Are the kids dirty? unfed? locked out? locked in ? bruised? Is the husband smoking pot with her? taking pills? Not to down play drinking but it is really common in the military, and they do have random drug testing for the enlisted and the officers both.
Have you talked to her about your concerns? Offered to help her with a budget? If "She" is the one drinking and doing drugs, then of course they are happier with him deployed, because they can do and behave any way they want.
I've been on food stamps both as a military wife and a cilivan and had a job at the same time, and while food stamps don't cover beer and cig's niether does it cover toilet paper. I'm still addicted to smoking so morals aside If I was on food stamps now, I would still be buying smokes.
I agree that talking to tyhe base Chaplin is a good start and maybe he can point you to some places or organizations that can help. The Military does like to look after thier own, and if "She's" the one with the problem don't throw him under the bus because of it. .
JMHO>
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Old 10-26-2008, 09:24 AM
  # 25 (permalink)  
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You say the kids arent in danger. They are taken care of. PROBABLY NOT happy. But happier when he is gone. So whats the problem?
Just because people make bad choices doesnt make them bad people.
I grew up in an alcoholic house. I was cared for and loved.
Just because someone isnt living up to someone elses moral standards doesnt mean you go making it the way you see fit.
Am I being critical? You did come to a public forum and to me unless these kids are being abused and neglected or in danger. Then who am I to say they arent happy.
And resentful wife brings up a good point.
Is it him or is it just her?
Its not her career your going to be possibly affecting.
Alot have said they have seen so many times where people do nothing.
I have seen alot of times where people who think they are helping but really have no idea end up making the situation way worse.
I dont know you..or them. Only what you have told us here.
And in my opinion. I see nothing that calls for you to go dragging them into a system that will not care about anything other than what they see on the surface.
I guess I may be a little bias as I went through something a little similar to this.
My grandfather lost his longtime job with the federal government because he was an alcoholic.
But he did his job well and we always had everything we needed and wanted and more.
Never were we in danger or neglected.
But because some neighbors didnt like that he drank like he did. Took it upon themselves to turn him in to his job. He eventually lost it.
It broke him in the end. And he died shamed.
But he died in a loving home with people who understood him and accepted him for who he was.
He was an alcoholic and had his moments. But it didnt make him a bad person.
So maybe it best I myself stay out of this thread. Because yes...Until someone walks a mile in our shoes. Or until I think someone is leaving kids hungry ..dirty and neglected or in danger. I am going to be critical.
Thats just how I feel.
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Old 10-26-2008, 09:49 AM
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I don't want this to become an argument, but seriously when did it become good parenting to just make sure your kids take baths on a daily basis?? Is that all it takes?? I hear him yell at his kids 100's of times a day & punish them for trivial s***. The kids aren't going to get much for their birthday or Christmas this year because their parents are out drinking & drugging & always claim to be broke. Yes, I know this for a fact. If someone is going to make their life an open book to me, then yes I feel a responsibility to do something. I didn't ask her to tell me about her personal finances & drug habits, but she did anyway. I am actually shocked at how much people are defending parents who are treating their kids like s*** instead of thinking that maybe something should be done about it. So is it ok for their mom to smoke pot a couple times throughout the day & then drive to pick them up from school or to be high as a freaking kite when she's taking pills & still drives with them in the car??? Seriously, is that ok??? Well, it's not ok with me. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I will defend mine. I thought hard about not responding again to this post because it's really wearing on me, but sorry I can't help myself. I feel strongly about it. Why is everyone defending addict parents instead of thinking about the kids??? I'm sorry your grandfather lost a job due to alcoholism. I don't want to ruin anyone's career. That's not the point. I just don't see how it's ok to put helpless children in this situation.
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Old 10-26-2008, 09:57 AM
  # 27 (permalink)  
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So what are you going to do for the children?

Do you have a plan of how you can ensure their safety?
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Old 10-26-2008, 10:08 AM
  # 28 (permalink)  
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That is very true about the military taking care of its own...in fact I had times where I would use my taxi money at the end of a Friday night of drinking for more drinks....pick a fight or do something stupid to land muself in the civie jail....wait an hour or so till the MP's came and got me and usually they would just take me home with no charges laid....came to be a weekly ritual with many of us. MP's don't like paperwork at 3 in the morning and even as drunks we figured it out...sorta...they did keep tabs on us and that's how I ended up in the ARC 28 day rehab program....they gave me a chance and in the end I blew it. I blamed everyone but me at the time, but I, like many of you, learned how to deal with it and acknowledged it was nobodies fault but mine. The military went to great lengths for me.....its not their responsibility to make sure I didn't drink....they gave me ample tools and I missed out....those that tried to help me did me a favor by contacting padres, and even my divisional officers....they started the path of destruction I needed to get off the bottle....I am indebted to them. It must have been very hard to turn in a friend and hard worker...I had amazing performance reviews....I did everything to excess...I worked my a$$ off and drank my a$$ off, but being honest I was hammered many days I was at work...voldka caesars....mmmmm...still make my mouth water and I am having a virgin one as I type.....sorry side tracked. People need that kick in the a$$ and a resume of destruction in order to finally get help...Alcohol and drugs do not equal rational thought and even when sitting in cells a drunk or drug addict finds humor in it and it becomes a "Dude,you'llnever believe what happened to me last night....." story....when in fact its adding to the self destrauction resume that will become a harsh rality at some point. Reality is a big eye opener that we all experienced at some point....why deny a drunk or drug addict the opportunity to add to their self-destruction resume and get them one step closer to the realization they need....making a call to the padre hurts noone....and if it does...so what...they will take inventory at some point and maybe take a look at why someone cared enough to risk friendships and even family ties....again I simply say if kids are involved...its a no brainer.

Good Luck,

Chuck
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Old 10-26-2008, 11:12 AM
  # 29 (permalink)  
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Hmmm it took me a while to finish my last post on this thread and when I clicked done I saw things that saddened me even more and wonder how this will spiral out. I see some vaild points coming from all, but I also am concerned by some.

When dealing with drugs and alcohol there are no winners...this is a common truth I am sure all can agree on....the welfare of the kids is another and the mans career. The one thing that needs to be clear is their is a difference between an addict/alcoholic and the children. The kids are victims of cirumstance and if there is an option that is available that will not affect the mans job than it really is a non-issue. Through the right channels the problem can be addressed without a career going down the tubes....in fact there are many employers that help their employees before firing them and in many cases if someone is fired for drug or alcohol related stuff the drinker or drug user has brought it upon themselves.....to suggest its the fault of a concerned person is not really fair.

birdie....I feel what you are saying and if what you say is true than a trip to the base padre/chaplain/priest/minister or whatever is a good option and a step forward for the kids that don't have a voice.

Trish...you are a very passionate person that takes things to heart and that is great, but sometimes its easier to not include personal family stuff...the reason I suggest this is that we tend to have clouded glasseson when it comes to our families....I hurt my mom emotionally all the time and I know it now, but if you ask my mom about my drinking days she will say I tried hard...did my jobwell...cared deeply forfamily and she is right, but I also made mistakes that hurt those people at the time and in a few cases almost killed some of them....drunk driving. I am sure your grandfather was or is a great man and in your eyes as a child could do no wrong, but the truth is not always revealed from an alcoholic on how things play out now is it? I have read threads regarding your battle with drugs and commend you deeply, but you reveal your own ways of deception with your dad and your drug problem....could it not be said your grandfather did the same thing and the neighbor complaint be only a part of a bigger problem? My heart does feel for you and this is by no means an attack.

We are all battling the same demons and once in a while our new found freedom from a disease that holds no favors to anyone gives us a chance to do right by others....unless these kids are seriously beaten, starving or on deaths door his job would be safe and the military will help him....there are so many resources available....especially in todays situations....there are alcohol/drug councilors available to all servicemen because of the guys and gals returning from Iraq and Afghanistan.... the military isn't stupid anymore and acknowledges that drugs and alocohol are being used as a coping method... its not easy spending every minute of everyday wondering if you will die and or have to kill...hell I drank for less stress than that.

I see a person asking for advice on a very difficult situation and commend her for wanting to do something good. What happened in each of our pasts can be drawn from and presented as advice, but to condemn someone for wanting to help goes against why I searched for all of you. I have made a lot of mistakes in my life...coming to this site will not be one of them....this is about healing and helping and not hurting and blaming....

lets keep the focus...drugs and alcohol are the ememy here...not each other and by no means potential children victims.

Take deep breathes....type....

thank you for keeping me glued to my computer and creating a situation where at least I am not drinking or doing drugs....

Bless you all....

Keep up the fight,

Chuck
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Old 10-26-2008, 11:14 AM
  # 30 (permalink)  
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The kids' happiness is less important than their physical safety. This mom is taking her kid's medication, and is intoxicated on various things while supervising them and driving them around? That is what I'd focus on, not how little they're getting for Christmas.

I'm a mandated reporter. I don't know about the military career aspect, but DCF/social services doesn't remove kids from a home unless it is pretty blatantly bad. I know there are horror stories but in general there are several stops along the way where the parent/s get chances to straighten up their act.

Tough situation... but if you feel the kids aren't in a safe environment, I think you have a moral obligation to act for them. They're helpless and innocent.
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Old 10-26-2008, 12:37 PM
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beautiful post selfseeking....

bless you for your post and adding some light to a potentially tragic situation. People don't lose there jobs or their kids if they are good parents anymore...it may have happened in the past or in some bad places, but the system tries hard to keep families together through different programs. I could only hope I would have the strength to advocate for kids in a bad situation....actually I know very well I would in a second and feel good about it...kids deserve it...they need an adult voice.

You are all great people....bless you all for taking a few moments to speak and discuss a hot topic....others may face the same situation in the future and this will give suggestions and ideas on what to do.....its all positive no matter how you look at it....

Thank you,

Chuck
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Old 10-26-2008, 12:50 PM
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My advice is to say the serenity prayer. There is nothing you can do about these people except pray for them.

Be careful about focusing on other people's problems too much. Try to keep the focus on yourself and your recovery and the things that you CAN control.
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Old 10-26-2008, 01:17 PM
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The kids' happiness is less important than their physical safety. This mom is taking her kid's medication, and is intoxicated on various things while supervising them and driving them around? That is what I'd focus on, not how little they're getting for Christmas. QUOTE FROM SELFSEEKING

This is where the children are being endangered, in my opinion also.

When I made the amends to my daughters...one of the things that I really looked at was that I was so wrong for not keeping them safe from my behaviors. Children to me, are born and want nothing but love, security and safety and they deserve it.
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Old 10-26-2008, 01:27 PM
  # 34 (permalink)  
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Chuck said: "...but to condemn someone for wanting to help goes against why I searched for all of you. I have made a lot of mistakes in my life...coming to this site will not be one of them....this is about healing and helping and not hurting and blaming...."

Birdie, I don't think anyone being critical or harsh of you, to be truthful. And I think it's a misrepresentation to say anyone is "condemning" anyone for "wanting to help."

The way I read your original post was that you were frustrated and judgemental of your neighbor using your tax money inappropriately while, at the same time, she neglects her kids. It didn't seem like your initial post was a statement about how much you wanted to help. It seemed like you were sharing how frustrated you were because this neighbor of yours is a deadbeat, in your opinion.

You frustration with the food stamps being misused dominated the post. It's even titled "food stamps, drugs and booze." You didn't title it, "neighbor kids being neglected."

If your concern is the misuse of food stamps, and frustration with your neighbor complaining about her lack of funds after she's purchased drugs and alcohol, I would suggest that perhaps you could say to her either "gosh, I'm sorry it's hard for you but I've got to run." and excuse yourself from listening. Or, possibly (if you feel brave enough) you could say, "To be honest I don't have much sympathy for you since I know you seem to have plenty of money form drugs and booze."

If the issue is your neighbor's spending habits, drug habits, and food stamps, I guess I feel like it's a case of letting yourself get distracted by the faults of others instead of keeping your focus on your own addictions and keeping your "side of the street" clean. As alcoholics, it's so hard to keep that focus. That's basically what I was trying to communicate in my first response to you.

If, however, you are really sincerely concerned for the welfare of the children, then it might make sense to talk to the chaplan. But unless there was more serious evidence of abuse (as opposed to neglect and mishandling of money which you seem to really care about) I, personally, wouldn't take it any further than the chaplan.

It seems a little strange to me that you are not able to tell this woman you don't have time to listen to her complain and yet you want to go and report her and her husband to an agency about the welfare of their children. Is it possible that this is just the slightest bit vindictive? I think that's part of what I'm reacting to in your post. It seems like your frustration with your neighbors abuse of her welfare checks is possibly feeding your desire to report her family situation to someone of authority. And maybe I'm misreading your post. Like we always say - it's so hard to gauge things in only written form.

But each of us has to do what we have to do. If you look deep in your heart, you'll know what to do. Your posts read as if you are already pretty set on taking some action with the kids.

I once had a family across the street from me whose young son (3rd grade) was left alone a lot and seemed hungry for companionship. We began to invite him over for dinner and try to get to know him. He appreciated the food and the attention, I think. That, for me, was a direct way I could help him without involving the clumsy and harsh social services in the intricate details of his family's life.

Sometimes, social services does more harm than good.

A word on this forum:
You mention that you feel harshly criticized and that maybe you should keep your thoughts to yourself. Please try not to take anyone's words personally. I don't think of this forum as being solely for positive feedback. I think of it as also being a place where we can call each other on things that might be misleading us away from our sobriety.

I have very thin skin myself and have been in a similar place. But after I got some distance from it, I realized that what the other people were saying was partially correct and that because I was so defensive, I couldn't really heed their words. All I could do was leap to my own defense. Give it some time. And please don't give up on us.
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