Seamus

Ok, still a nOObie here, and I have another silly question.

I've read the book "Under the Influence" referred to and quoted in other parts of the forum here. Very useful and informative. It lays out very convincingly how alcoholism is a physical disease, much like diabetes or MS or others. I get that part.

What I still don't quite understand is whether alcoholism can be acquired. In my own case, I believe that I inherited a genetic predisposition to alcoholism. So when I took my first drink I triggered or set the disease in motion. Fine.

My question is, can one who is not predisposed to alcoholism develop the disease through excessive drinking? In other words, was my mother correct when she confronted me after my first bit of trouble due to drinking and said: "Oh, no! Now you're going to become an alcoholic!"

Thanks all. Sobriety is great!



Curious nOObie.

Mattcake

Alcohol is an addictive substance. Anyone who is exposed to it regularly *will* become physically dependent on it. Maybe psychologically dependent on it too; whether they consider themselves "alcoholic" or not is another matter altogether. I think this applies to everyone, not only those who don't carry the elusive acoholic genotype. JMO

Celebration1994

I am one of those alcoholics that grew up in an alcohol free home. My parents never drank, and when we traced history of drinking, all we found was a 2ond cousin of my dads and a brother of my mothers that were alcoholics and both were functioning alcoholics...we went back 3 generations.
As for me I never drank until I was almost 17 and not living at home, and boy did I fall in love with alcohol that first drink. So for me, I guess predisposed doesn't fit, but alcoholic sure does fit.

TryingSoHard

I'm torn on this point, too. In my opinion (and it's just that - my opinion only), and in my own personal experience, I DO NOT believe that I've always been pre-disposed to become alcoholic. I drank normally for many years. Never gave it a second thought, never had a problem controlling anything... I was just like everyone else who drinks NORMALLY.

About 2 1/2 years ago (give or take), I started drinking more and drinking more often. My tolerance increased. It started taking more alcohol to make me feel buzzed. I started drinking TO GET DRUNK, drinking to escape feelings, drinking to "handle" certain situations... gradually, but more quickly than I realized, my drinking started becoming a problem.

Knowing that I used to be able to drink without any problems makes me wonder if, perhaps SOME day in the distant future, I might be able to drink again without problems. Maybe if I get my life and my head and my issues under control, I'll be able to be "normal" again. Who knows. I'm not going to try it any time soon. But I must confess that I DO wonder.

The only instance of alcoholism in my family is my mom's mom. For what it's worth, she's not ever really been involved in my life. We lived hundreds of miles apart and very rarely even saw her.

So for me, personally, I really don't think it's genetics or a disease or anything like that. I think I just pushed myself beyond my physical limits and I started becoming dependent on it, physically and mentally.

Day 16 sober here.

FizzyWater

I'm a believer that I made myself an alcoholic rather than I am/was/always been an alcoholic. Far as I know there are no alcoholics in my family.

Drinking every day makes you physically dependant on it over time though.

Always liked a good bucket when I was younger, only in my late twenties that I started to fall into the drinking every day though, by my thirties I needed to drink every day.

Thats when the difference kicks in I reckon.

Now 5 months sober, the physical stuff has gone, just the odd mental trap to stop falling into.

warrens

Seamus

Yes.

No.

Which of these answers changes anything for you?

The first time I became sober, I read everything I could, on the biological bases of alcoholism. While fascinating and inconclusive, I'm not sure that the knowledge gained helped me in any way. After several years, I began drinking again.

I think the only significance to your question is in assigning blame. Blame the gene, or blame myself. Or simply, accept the things I cannot change and have the courage to change the things I can.

Best to you!

warren

Jersey Nonny

Which came first? The chicken or the egg? I believe (for myself) that I was predisposed through genetics on my mother's side, although my mother quit truly social drinking when she became pregnant with my brother in 1942. Since then, I've never seen her take more than one glass of wine or one mixed drink on rare occasions.

My three kids were doubly cursed, since their father was also an alcoholic. But, they consider themselves more inclined to be drug addicts (two now in recovery), although they all started out drinking.

I do know for sure, once an alcoholic, always an alcoholic...and, I've seen enough proof over my nearly 28 years sober...folks who quit drinking, went back to drinking, and were as bad or worse than when they quit. As they say in AA, "Once a pickle, you can never go back to being a cucumber." I'm perfectly happy and content being a sober pickle!

timzup

Ok, can I "stick a spanner in the works" here?

I was adopted by my parents at an early age so observations of genetic traits have never been a reliable source in diagnosing these matters for me.

However, both my adoptive parents were frequent, yet controlled drinkers. Christmas time, new year and other festive occasions were always showered with copious amounts of alcohol and the associated behavior.

It is without doubt that I formed an association between alcohol consumption and a fun life. The blood line obviously couldn't account for any of it.

Ok, so before we embark on yet another nature/nurture debate, I'd like to suggest that alcoholism is not attributable to one single driving factor but more so a combination of multitudes, possibly far beyond our mindset provide reasonable comprehension.

And besides, I know a really funny joke and I'm not telling anyone until we lighten up a bit.

FizzyWater

((( Bling )))

Lightened up, now tell

Jersey Nonny

Well, my goodness, Timzup...it was a serious question which deserved a serious answer. Besides, I thought I did lighten up.

Quote:

As they say in AA, "Once a pickle, you can never go back to being a cucumber." I'm perfectly happy and content being a sober pickle!

warrens

Lighten up?

I guess I missed the tension. Didn't detect any.

Timzup, let me muddy the water a little more. I too, am adopted. Haven't a clue as to my genetics (though likely northern European/Anglo). My parents hardly ever drank. I drank for decades without serious issue-until about my mid 40's.

My point? I couldn't agree with you more. A combination of stuff. Not really important to me any more. I'm rather more interested in the science and secrets of successful recovery.

Now, where's the joke?

warren

Serenidad

Yes, you can definately still become an alcoholic just by drinking too much. You DO NOT need to have :wtf2 the genetic link. Good luck!

timzup

Hope you don't mind me asking this Warren - particularly on a public forum - but do you ever wonder if your blood parents had alcohol issues? I know I do, makes me wonder how I came to be 'given up'. Whether or not that may have been the facilitator as to why I am where I am.

Either that, or a large drunk stork delivered me to a cabbage patch one day. Seriously though, I have found that being unable to trace genetics can sometimes have enormous drawbacks no matter how much I try to convince myself it is irrelevant.

Seamus

Thanks for all the input, people. I realize that there's nothing I can do about it now but accept that I'm an alcoholic. And I truly believe that I was already an alcoholic when I took my first drink. (There's quite a bit of history in my Irish ancestry.)

The main reason I raised this question was that I'm now preparing my 9th step...making amends. I guess what I tell my Mom is that I'm sorry for what my alcoholism has caused in our lives, and just leave out any reference as to what I think the cause may have been.

But I still feel some regret that she may feel I could have prevented my alcoholism by not drinking so much. Without knowing it at the time (40 years ago) I couldn't control my drinking, except by total and immediate cessation.

I guess it's only in my head and doesn't really matter, now that I understand I'm alcoholic and only can deal with it by staying sober one day at a time.

Thanks again, everyone.

warrens

Timzup

I think I probably assume that they did. I have imagined all kinds of things, from a teenage mother to a one night met him at a bar kind of thing. Really doesn't matter. I had (have) a great family.

But I also wonder about the developmental/social roots, as I wasn't adopted until the age of 3. Separation/attachment issues, etc.

What can I change? None of it. BFD.

The only time that I really wish I had some genetic information is to pass it on to my grown kids. Other than that, I'm quite happy being an alley mutt.

warren

mle-sober

I think different personalities are differently disposed to consider this topic. Some people might like to discuss it just for intellectual enjoyment. Not that it affects my recovery. But that it is, in and of itself, of interest to me. Pure enjoyment of letting my mind wander freely.

For the record, I think it's slightly rude to shut down a conversation because you consider it too serious. Maybe you were joking, Timzup? So hard to know without the benefit of facail expressions. But if I can't seriously muse about the nature of alcoholism here, than where in the world can I do so?

It's interesting to me, pure and simple.

More importantly:
Seamus, what I read in my 12 x 12 book is that "prudence" is an essential quality when making amends. Wisdom to see what is suitable. So, I think you're on the right track with your amend to your mother. Because it's really about her and not about you.

It's not an opportunity to voice your feelings about why you may have become an alcoholic. It's not a chance for you to put forth a defense. It's the time to put forth your sincere regret for the hurt that you caused. Regardless of the circumstances for how or why you caused that hurt.

That's my thought, anyway. Although I can totally understand wanting to use the moment as a chance to have a bigger discussion about your life. And maybe that discussion happens another day, another way. But I would think you would be ultimately more successful using your moment to make an amend for the purpose of making that amend, only.

Does that make sense?

Wish you well. And admire you that you're on step 9. Don't know how long you've been sober but I'm still stuck on step 4 at almost 9 months. Ergh. So take my words for what they are. Lacking the experience of having done step 9 myself.

- mle

timzup

You're a superstar. Reflects my own sentiments exactly. My folks were great.

Simply bewilders me though how they could control alcohol intake so.....well......controlled. Even though they drank every night, in moderation, for years and years.

Anyhow, English/Anglo decent you say? Maybe you could be...... no!.... let's not go there.

Take care bro.... I mean mate..... I mean buddy.... yup buddy, that's it!... buddy.

Hilltopper1972

Great post and fascinating to see how everybody sees it. I think there are certainly predispositions that make someone more addictive to anything than others. For me I've been addicted to at times, Booze, Cigs, Dip(Skoal). I also know from my own experience that I used to "Tie one on" in college like everybody else, then get up the next day go to class, and not even think about drinking until the next party on Friday a week later. It got worse over time and as near as I can remember became problematic(drinking by myself with the purpose of getting drunk) when I was about 28 or so. I don't know why the switch, but as it got worse I know that it became a "must have" nightly. Interestingly enough when I made the switch from beer to wine it became much, much worse. More drunk, worse hangovers, embarrassing behavior, etc. But no matter how bad the hangover, I'd think about having another bottle or two of wine about 2pm each day and planned the rest of my day around making sure I had enough. So is it learned? Yes I believe that it is. For some though it is love at first sight, while others it might take a bit. When it comes right down to it though it doesn't matter does it? We are all here regardless of the path we took.