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Old 05-02-2008, 04:04 PM
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Hi...introduction

Hello all
I have been browsing this site for a while and decided to register here tonight.
I'm in a dilemma at the moment. i have been attending AA since Jan 4 and found it to be really helpful with regards to abstinence, however i have many issues with it.
The main one is the spiritual aspect to it, i have been bought up in a strict religious environment, so do not want to hear that God or a higher power can cure me of this illness.
In saying that i also have issues as to whether its an illness at all, as this sort of makes me feel as though i have no control over drinking. Which i guess is the first step in the AA recovery programme.
In light of this i have started to attend counselling and a local alcoholic service group that go down the line of controlled drinking within a program. These follow a model that alcoholic drinking is a learned behaviour. they feel that this can be unlearned therefore enabling a person to drink moderately.
I do not know whether this will work for me but feel that i have to try it. i hate the idea that i will never be able to beat this thing so really want to have a go at controlling drinking within the confines of a medical program. I'd love to be able to drink like a 'normal' person, rather than having a desire to stop drinking, i have a desire not to be a drunk.
I wondered what people here thought. Could do with advice and comments fron recovering alcoholics.

Yours Paul
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Old 05-02-2008, 04:10 PM
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When i first started going to meetings my GOD was the group itself. They were sober, i was not. Something was keeping them sober. GOD can mean "group of drunks"--preferably sober ones. It can also mean "Good Orderly Direction". Everything in my life at that point was disorderly and unmanageable. i couldn't get sober/stay sober on my own, but with the help of the group i was able to make it through a 24 hr period without drinking...one day at a time.
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Old 05-02-2008, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by digderidoo View Post
Hello all
I have been browsing this site for a while and decided to register here tonight.
I'm in a dilemma at the moment. i have been attending AA since Jan 4 and found it to be really helpful with regards to abstinence, however i have many issues with it.
The main one is the spiritual aspect to it, i have been bought up in a strict religious environment, so do not want to hear that God or a higher power can cure me of this illness.
In saying that i also have issues as to whether its an illness at all, as this sort of makes me feel as though i have no control over drinking. Which i guess is the first step in the AA recovery programme.
In light of this i have started to attend counselling and a local alcoholic service group that go down the line of controlled drinking within a program. These follow a model that alcoholic drinking is a learned behaviour. they feel that this can be unlearned therefore enabling a person to drink moderately.
I do not know whether this will work for me but feel that i have to try it. i hate the idea that i will never be able to beat this thing so really want to have a go at controlling drinking within the confines of a medical program. I'd love to be able to drink like a 'normal' person, rather than having a desire to stop drinking, i have a desire not to be a drunk.
I wondered what people here thought. Could do with advice and comments fron recovering alcoholics.

Yours Paul
Hello, Paul and welcome to the SR Forum. Not knowing your particular circumstances, I cannot say whether or not you are an alcoholic. However, I think you are wrong in saying that alcoholism is not a disease. I believe it IS a disease and if a person does have this disease, there is no way that they can drink like a "normal" person.
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Old 05-02-2008, 04:17 PM
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I don't know about "controlled" drinking. I'd tried for months to control my drinking but could not. I always ended up drunk and out of control. The only way for me was complete abstinance. I just cannot have "just one or two" drinks. I also read something from one of the members here: when I enjoyed my drinking I wasn't controlling it, and when I was controlling it I wasn't enjoying it. That makes sense to me.

I hope you can find what you are looking for, whether it is 'controlled' drinking or complete abstinence.

Keep coming back here. You'll find lots of support and experience and hope.

:ghug3
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Old 05-02-2008, 04:30 PM
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I wanted desperately to be able to moderate. I started trying 20 yrs. ago. The result was 3 DUI's, ruined relationships, financial disaster, health issues. Each time I had a "success" - where I was able to have just a few, it would encourage me to keep going - but it is a progressive disease. After a time you will not be able to control or predict where that first drink will take you. For me - in the end, there was absolutely no control. All drinking led down the same road to hell. I do wish it wasn't so, Paul, but that's the way it was for me.
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Old 05-02-2008, 04:33 PM
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Thanks for your comments so far.
Angelina - i have tried interpreting god into those sayings but find it difficult, as i sought of blame part of my drinking upon my religious upbringing.
Suki - In accepting its a disease or illness, i have to accept that its something that i cannot control, therefore i find that aspect of it hard.
Least - I like that phrase about enjoying it when i'm not in control and when controlling i wasn't enjoying it. I have spent the last couple of weeks drinking in a controlled way and if i'm honest with myself haven't had an enjoyable time attempting it.

I will continue to visit here. There is no way i want to go back to where i was 3 or 4 years ago, which i look back on as my rock bottom. Or even go back to where i was last year of going one week with a drink and the next week without.

For now i find it difficult to rule out a drink in a social setting. If the programme i am on doesn't work i know the AA is there.

Paul
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Old 05-02-2008, 04:34 PM
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Hi and Welcome to SR

Glad you decided to jump in and ask questions. I did try to control my drinking over the years. It would work a few times but got out of control sooner or later. Then felt bad about myself because I could not do it.

For me is is easer to just not drink at all. Has been over 7 years and I do not miss it.

I am for any program that helps people. Smart recovery is a self help group that I really like. There are many people I know having great luck with it. It is listed in the programs here.
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Old 05-02-2008, 04:50 PM
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Paul--believe me, I understand where you are coming from. My religious upbringing was Southern Baptist--Hell, Fire, Brimstone>strike you down with a lightning bolt type God. My God today is anything but those things--today He is love, compassion, forgiving, merciful, and most importantly>Bigger/stronger than my addiction.

Do not let any prejudice concerning a Higher Power/Supreme Being deter you from honestly asking yourself what it means to you. (Sorry, can't remember the exact phrase).
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Old 05-02-2008, 04:53 PM
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Suki - In accepting its a disease or illness, i have to accept that its something that i cannot control, therefore i find that aspect of it hard.

Yes, it is hard, but we have all had to accept that we are powerless over alcohol. If you are an alcoholic, you are powerless over alcohol, too. Not meaning to sound rude, but...you are just fooling yourself.
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Old 05-02-2008, 05:12 PM
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Thanks for all the comments so far.
I have come here with an open mind, so welcome all the comments and anymore that anyone wishes to say.
But for now i have to go to bed (it is 1am this side of the pond). I will check the thread again tomorrow.
Goodnight Paul
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Old 05-02-2008, 05:26 PM
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Hi and Welcome,

I would like to be able to drink like a 'normal' person too, and spent years of my life, determined to be able to control and moderate my drinking. It just prolonged the pain of addiction. Alcoholism is a progressive disease and it will get worse if you don't stop. The thing is, once you cross the invisible line of addiction, there is no going back.
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Old 05-02-2008, 05:40 PM
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Hi Paul:
Welcome to SR. I completely relate to your reluctance to accept Alcoholism as a disease. and the GOD thing really turned me off at first too. However, as I read the chapter in the Big Book "We Agnostics" and "The Doctor's Opinion" I was willing to at least give AA the benefit of the doubt.
I wish you a lot of success in your "controlled" drinking. I tried it many times and in many different ways over the years. It never worked for me personally.
"You can't turn a pickle back into a cucumber" comes to mind.

Good luck my friend,
Artur
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Old 05-02-2008, 05:42 PM
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Hi and Welcome. Have you looked at the SMART program? I think it's based on the premise that alcoholism is behavioral rather than a disease. No religious or spiritual component either.

As far as moderation goes, after struggling to try to moderate my drinking for many years, I realized I really didn't WANT to be a moderate drinker. What I really wanted was to be able to drink as much as I wanted with no consequences. I do enjoy the taste of alcohol, but honestly, I drank for the feeling it gave me. And moderate drinking just didn't do the trick. I doubt that will ever change for me.
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Old 05-02-2008, 06:15 PM
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Hi and welcome to SR
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Old 05-02-2008, 06:45 PM
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Really glad your here. Attempts at control drinking sometimes bring people to understand they cant...dont recommend it as it kills people.

I think the disease model is based on what the chemical reaction is once you take the first drink that starts the binge. That might be as starting place. any program that works for you is a good program for you.

I am in AA at this time, and I don't believe in god in anyway I would recognize as fitting the definition....it still works for me.

Just keep reading and posting and work with the things that help you.

You might check out the secular threads.
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Old 05-02-2008, 06:52 PM
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Paul,

I think it's good you're here. And I think it's good you're confronting your problem with alcohol and trying to address it in a way that honestly works for you. I can't predict what the outcome will be - it may be controlled drinking or it may be abstinance or it may be full-blown and progressive alcoholism. I have no expereince with any other program except AA, really. AA works for me. Here's how I think about the two issues you brought up:

God - I think people frequently misunderstand AA's writings about the concept of God. For me, I don't feel like I have any direct experience with God himself and I don't pretend to know who/what God is. What I can say is that I do have direct experience with the evidence of some force that affects us. My heart began to beat for mysterious purposes that I do not begin to know. The seed sprouts and blooms without anyone turning a light switch or saying "go." The smallest of miracles occur every day around us and we do not even see them. I don't see God in the big things - tornados and famine and war. I feel God in my heart when my son smiles at me, when my cat brushes against my leg, when I recognize kindness in strangers.

You say you don't want to hear God can cure your alcoholism. I don't think (unless I'm really mistaken) AA says that. It's such a blunt understanding of the way AA talks about it. Maybe you are letting your strict upbringing dictate how you hear it. Let go of it. That resentment doesn't help you any. God doesn't cure your alcoholism. You cure your alcoholism with the strength that you find when you surrender. And that's what God is. The Big Book says in the chapter at the back called, "Spiritual Experience" "With few exceptions our members find that they have tapped an unsuspected inner resource which they presently identify with their own conception of a Power greater than themselves." Paul, that whole 2 pages is very illuminating. It doesn't sound like you've read it.

Alcohol as a disease - Whether or not alcoholism is a disease is something certainly to be contemplated but it's hardly a matter to define whether you dismiss or accept an organization that has had so much documented success with a progressive and fatal problem that you identify yourself as experiencing. The issue is really sort of mute. It doesn't matter. You can take that first step without having an opinion on the matter. In my limited experience, AA is good exactly because you can take small steps forward without having to digest and accept the sum of it all. Just start listening. Then start talking. Then get a sponsor. Then start reading. Little by little, you make progress than becomes substantial.

The first step in no way requires that you accept alcoholism as a disease. The first step is merely fully conceding to our innermost self that we are alcoholics and we are powerless over it - that our lives are unmanagable. It doesn't say "and agree that it's a disease." The experiment you are conducting to see if you can drink in moderation will tell you soon enough.

Remember, successfully drinking in moderation would also mean eliminating that obsession of the mind we alcoholics experience. Some part of me imagines that I might be able to drink in moderation if I was babysat constantly and given some sort of future pill that would make me sick if I drank more than 2 drinks. But I don't think anything would ever, ever cure the obsession of the mind accept totally stopping.

Paul, no one can say what will work for you. And I wish you success no matter how you go about getting sober. Sobriety is a huge life-changing experience for me - it's not just "moderating or stopping drinking." I don't know what it will be for you. But I hope you get a chance to find out. Keep us posted.

- MLE
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Old 05-03-2008, 02:18 AM
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Here is an article you might have missed...

How We Get Addicted - TIME

AA or no AA...there is no point in
putting toxins in your brain and body...IMO

Good to see a new member ...Welcome!
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Old 05-03-2008, 02:41 AM
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digeridoo -
hi and welcome to sr.

I tried AA five (was it five - or is it six now) years ago.

I had similar, but not the same problems with the whole 'God' thing.

I wound up back 'out'.

Five years later - I'd be back in AA
and unspeakable thankful for the miracle
that I'd made it back at all.

While I respect and honor your choice to seek alternatives...
I pray for you it doesn't take what it took for me to stop for good.

AA is not the 'only' way.
It is instead the 'only' way that worked for ME.

I hope the best for you,
and that you'll continue to post so others
who are either too intimidated,
flat out afraid - or otherwise unable to attend or try AA ...
can learn from your experiences and maybe find a way that works for them.

The point is to remain sober.
The point is - to remain ... alive.
Because whether it's a disease or not -
we alcoholics wind up nonetheless ...
the same kind of dead.

And that is the bottom line with alcoholism.
I look forward to reading more about your journey!
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Old 05-03-2008, 03:07 AM
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Originally Posted by barb dwyer View Post
Because whether it's a disease or not -
we alcoholics wind up nonetheless ...
the same kind of dead.
YES


I am still undecided on AA, I have been through the steps but not been to a meeting for a long time, I am starting to think it's not a HP or God that removes the problem but living honestly and kindly each day...and what is more spiritual than living honestly and kindly?
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Old 05-03-2008, 03:36 PM
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Stone,

In my opinion, living honestly and kindly IS god.

-MLE
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