Guarded about Sponsors
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 137
Guarded about Sponsors
I like my AA local group but articles like me this ([Control Tactics Of Alcoholics Anonymous[/url]) make me very cautious. It means that each sponsor is screen very strictly and than if approved.
I have no tolerance with rigid thinking and sponsor's absolute control of over my life. I have no tolerance to AA group that is very narrow-minded in their thinking.
I do not think my AA groups is like this. I think my group is a good and I should find the sponsor that I am looking for. In my opinion, AA is broad-minded path and not a narrow-minded path. Everybody has a different take on the 12 steps are applied and broad is the way to recovery and not narrow. Even the sponsor and sponsoree might have different takes on the 12 steps on shows. It sponsor's responsiblity to convey how the 12 steps changed them and how it change my life. Than, it is my duty to take the sponsor's guidance and wisdom than integrate into my own "program"
People that have a narrow-minded version of AA go aganist official AA protocol. The local AA group would be violating AA own disclosed rules and I would go after them. The official AA way to me is very broad-minded and open door to lots of different models of recovery but which wisdom can be found in the 12 steps.
At least that it my take. If AA is not like this, than I will be forced by no choice to bring alternative recovery group to my county because AA has failed its mission.
I have no tolerance with rigid thinking and sponsor's absolute control of over my life. I have no tolerance to AA group that is very narrow-minded in their thinking.
I do not think my AA groups is like this. I think my group is a good and I should find the sponsor that I am looking for. In my opinion, AA is broad-minded path and not a narrow-minded path. Everybody has a different take on the 12 steps are applied and broad is the way to recovery and not narrow. Even the sponsor and sponsoree might have different takes on the 12 steps on shows. It sponsor's responsiblity to convey how the 12 steps changed them and how it change my life. Than, it is my duty to take the sponsor's guidance and wisdom than integrate into my own "program"
People that have a narrow-minded version of AA go aganist official AA protocol. The local AA group would be violating AA own disclosed rules and I would go after them. The official AA way to me is very broad-minded and open door to lots of different models of recovery but which wisdom can be found in the 12 steps.
At least that it my take. If AA is not like this, than I will be forced by no choice to bring alternative recovery group to my county because AA has failed its mission.
mle-sober
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Golden, CO
Posts: 1,243
Crisco,
I am so sorry that you are struggling with this issue. You have written about these struggles over the past several weeks or months and I am sympathetic. I can see that you are trying to find a program or a mixture of programs that feels right to you. And that it is not easy.
I think that my best advice to you may not be received by you very well. But give it a shot. One thing we know as alcoholics is that we cannot manage our lives and nor can we stop drinking after we take the first drink. We are in trouble.
Is it possible to go the the meetins you have begun going to and to try not to judge how things are being done? Try to empty your mind of resentments and sentences that start with:
I have no tolerance for...
It is the sponsors responsibility to...
I will be forced by no choice...
Try to go to about 10 meetings with an empty mind and haert. Listen. Don't speak. Let what is there in that room and what that sponsor has for you, come in. Just make a committment to let it come in and not judge it and just sit with it.
And just see what happens. I see you seeking. I see someone trying to respond. Don't run away yet. Just give it time. And don't judge.
That's my best hope for you. Because I know you're sturggling and I want you to find help. And I heave the feeling that help is there reaching out for you but that it just might look different from what you thought it would. Hang in there.
And tell me I'm full of bunk if you need to. That's okay too. (:
I am so sorry that you are struggling with this issue. You have written about these struggles over the past several weeks or months and I am sympathetic. I can see that you are trying to find a program or a mixture of programs that feels right to you. And that it is not easy.
I think that my best advice to you may not be received by you very well. But give it a shot. One thing we know as alcoholics is that we cannot manage our lives and nor can we stop drinking after we take the first drink. We are in trouble.
Is it possible to go the the meetins you have begun going to and to try not to judge how things are being done? Try to empty your mind of resentments and sentences that start with:
I have no tolerance for...
It is the sponsors responsibility to...
I will be forced by no choice...
Try to go to about 10 meetings with an empty mind and haert. Listen. Don't speak. Let what is there in that room and what that sponsor has for you, come in. Just make a committment to let it come in and not judge it and just sit with it.
And just see what happens. I see you seeking. I see someone trying to respond. Don't run away yet. Just give it time. And don't judge.
That's my best hope for you. Because I know you're sturggling and I want you to find help. And I heave the feeling that help is there reaching out for you but that it just might look different from what you thought it would. Hang in there.
And tell me I'm full of bunk if you need to. That's okay too. (:
Member
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: my room in ct.
Posts: 58,110
hiya crisco!
what i have come to see...
what A.A. is really about, is geting the steps, and a understanding of the steps in ones life, so they may have a life...
a happy, loving, tolerant, purposeful, productive, resentment free, accoutable, giving back kind of life...
all with the guiding lite of a power greater then!
whatever that power is for ones
self!
any, and all the deveation from that...
it is what it is!
good wishes on finding that correct sponsor crisco!
love and blessings...
rz
what i have come to see...
what A.A. is really about, is geting the steps, and a understanding of the steps in ones life, so they may have a life...
a happy, loving, tolerant, purposeful, productive, resentment free, accoutable, giving back kind of life...
all with the guiding lite of a power greater then!
whatever that power is for ones
self!
any, and all the deveation from that...
it is what it is!
good wishes on finding that correct sponsor crisco!
love and blessings...
rz
Illegitimi Non Carborundum
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Old Home Terra
Posts: 4,272
I've certainly had my share of "sponsor troubles" starting, believe it or not, with my original temporary sponsor, (what a nightmare that was). At the root of each was a sick person catering to their own ego and "control freak" natures under the guise of sponsorship.
Don't get me wrong, I've also encountered some really good sponsors too -- there are some very wonderful, caring people in AA, who really are focused on sobriety and recovery, and with helping others to achieve and maintain it for themselves.
More than anything, I think, it demonstrates that people are people no matter what the circumstances, and that just because one is is AA it doesn't mean one isn't still sick.
My understanding of sponsorship includes the mutual understanding that the only real responsibility a sponsor has to their sponcee is to read the Big Book with them and to guide them through the Steps. Anything on top of that -- service work suggestions, sympathetic ear, life advice, etc -- is "icing on the cake". As a situation it works both ways in the relationship, and a sponcee's only real responsibility to the sponsor is to listen with an open mind and to TRY.
Remember, no one can work your program for you, and likewise, one can't work another's program for them. Asking for help doesn't mean throwing away one's boundaries.
Don't get me wrong, I've also encountered some really good sponsors too -- there are some very wonderful, caring people in AA, who really are focused on sobriety and recovery, and with helping others to achieve and maintain it for themselves.
More than anything, I think, it demonstrates that people are people no matter what the circumstances, and that just because one is is AA it doesn't mean one isn't still sick.
My understanding of sponsorship includes the mutual understanding that the only real responsibility a sponsor has to their sponcee is to read the Big Book with them and to guide them through the Steps. Anything on top of that -- service work suggestions, sympathetic ear, life advice, etc -- is "icing on the cake". As a situation it works both ways in the relationship, and a sponcee's only real responsibility to the sponsor is to listen with an open mind and to TRY.
Remember, no one can work your program for you, and likewise, one can't work another's program for them. Asking for help doesn't mean throwing away one's boundaries.
Illegitimi Non Carborundum
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Old Home Terra
Posts: 4,272
bona fido dog-lover
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: SF Bay area, CA
Posts: 99,780
In reading your post again I must say that I'm not sure exactly what you are saying. It sounds like you like your AA group but didn't like the article about "narrow minded AA groups". When I go to meetings, and I don't go regularly, but often enough to keep in touch, I take what I can use and ignore what I can't use. "Take what you need and leave the rest". And since each AA group is different and different people have a different view of things, I just go to the meetings where I've found supportive people and useful information.
At any rate, there are a lot of recovery programs out there and AA is not the only one, just the most well known.
I wish you all the best in your recovery.:ghug
At any rate, there are a lot of recovery programs out there and AA is not the only one, just the most well known.
I wish you all the best in your recovery.:ghug
same planet...different world
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Butte, America
Posts: 10,946
crisco -
hon, sponsors don't have abolute control over your life.
sponsors ... are there to guide you through
Steps 1-12 of the Program of Alcoholics Anonymous.
They're not babysitters.
They're recovering alcoholics in their own program of recovery,
passing on what has been shown to them ... by their sponsors.
If youre seriously ready to do the Steps ...
and DO them.. for real -
not sit around and talk about it...
not wait a long time then pretend you did them ...
not theorize about it
I'm talking get up and DO the thing...
when your'e ready to do the Steps ...
face to face for real ...
the person will show up.
It's pretty simple really.
They don't control anything.
Well - the only thing I can think of is they can control
whether they're going to sponsor you or not.
They can control that ...
They just get a book and show you the parts that cant be described, no matter how hard we try - theres aspects to this program that can't be DESCRIBED .. they have to be ... done.
not faked, intellectualized or otherwise danced around...
- DONE.
hope that helps.
hon, sponsors don't have abolute control over your life.
sponsors ... are there to guide you through
Steps 1-12 of the Program of Alcoholics Anonymous.
They're not babysitters.
They're recovering alcoholics in their own program of recovery,
passing on what has been shown to them ... by their sponsors.
If youre seriously ready to do the Steps ...
and DO them.. for real -
not sit around and talk about it...
not wait a long time then pretend you did them ...
not theorize about it
I'm talking get up and DO the thing...
when your'e ready to do the Steps ...
face to face for real ...
the person will show up.
It's pretty simple really.
They don't control anything.
Well - the only thing I can think of is they can control
whether they're going to sponsor you or not.
They can control that ...
They just get a book and show you the parts that cant be described, no matter how hard we try - theres aspects to this program that can't be DESCRIBED .. they have to be ... done.
not faked, intellectualized or otherwise danced around...
- DONE.
hope that helps.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 486
Just in reading your previous posts I would suggest that you not get a sponsor right now. They are there to guide and instruct you in recovery by working the 12 steps and the complete AA program. If you do not want to work all of the 12 steps and AA program, which you have already indicated you don't, then getting a sponsor is futile and you are setting yourself up for a guaranteed failure.
AA is a program of attraction and results if you follow the guidelines and instructions provided, namely don't drink, attend meetings, get a sponsor and work the 12 steps. If you are not willing to do that then you need to ask yourself - Do I want what AA has to offer?
A similar example would be going to the Dr. for a stomach ache that just won't go away no matter what you have tried. The Dr. tells you that he has a lot of experience in the area and that if you follow his instructions your stomach ache will go away. The Dr. gives you the list of instructions but you tell him that they are too restrictive and you don't like the fact that he is pushing them on you. The Dr. tells you this, the choice is yours, you can follow the instructions at my direction and your stomach ache will go away, or you can keep doing things your way and the stomach ache will continue.
Now you have to decide the course of action - do you want to take care of your addiction or do you want to continue to do things your way?
AA is just one program out there but it does work if you work the program. It is very open and if you are in the least bit interested then keep an open mind, go to meetings, talk to the members and listen to what they have to say, maybe even ask some of the long time members (old timers) how they did it.
If you give AA a fair chance it may just get rid of that "stomach ache".
AA is a program of attraction and results if you follow the guidelines and instructions provided, namely don't drink, attend meetings, get a sponsor and work the 12 steps. If you are not willing to do that then you need to ask yourself - Do I want what AA has to offer?
A similar example would be going to the Dr. for a stomach ache that just won't go away no matter what you have tried. The Dr. tells you that he has a lot of experience in the area and that if you follow his instructions your stomach ache will go away. The Dr. gives you the list of instructions but you tell him that they are too restrictive and you don't like the fact that he is pushing them on you. The Dr. tells you this, the choice is yours, you can follow the instructions at my direction and your stomach ache will go away, or you can keep doing things your way and the stomach ache will continue.
Now you have to decide the course of action - do you want to take care of your addiction or do you want to continue to do things your way?
AA is just one program out there but it does work if you work the program. It is very open and if you are in the least bit interested then keep an open mind, go to meetings, talk to the members and listen to what they have to say, maybe even ask some of the long time members (old timers) how they did it.
If you give AA a fair chance it may just get rid of that "stomach ache".
Seriously Fun!
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: California coast
Posts: 415
Green, I love NIN!!! I had to look up the lyrics to see what he was singing.
I'm still thinking about a sponsor. I get turned off myself by the hardcore AAers. But I still love the people in general. I also live in a pretty open-minded kinda town, so that is very helpful.
Basically...we can get a lot from the experience and stories of all the drunks who have been before us. They share the exact same feelings I have over drinking. And they have great ways to stay sober. The higher power bit...well, do with it what you want. No body talks to me, but I work on feeling peaceful, and humble. I do think that keeping my moods in order help me not drink. As I am a person who drinks for feeling bad, feeling good, feeling bored, feeling scared, feeling...anything. So the best think for me is to just not drink. As I can not do it right. I get f-ed up, and make really dumb choices.
I am looking into learning the other non-religious programs...because no matter what AAers say or do...it is still an extremely religious program. And don't get me wrong. I can accept that, and I still love the people. But there is still a fundamental part of the program that goes against who I am. But I still do all I can to learn from the drunks in the program. I love them, and they can help.
I'm still thinking about a sponsor. I get turned off myself by the hardcore AAers. But I still love the people in general. I also live in a pretty open-minded kinda town, so that is very helpful.
Basically...we can get a lot from the experience and stories of all the drunks who have been before us. They share the exact same feelings I have over drinking. And they have great ways to stay sober. The higher power bit...well, do with it what you want. No body talks to me, but I work on feeling peaceful, and humble. I do think that keeping my moods in order help me not drink. As I am a person who drinks for feeling bad, feeling good, feeling bored, feeling scared, feeling...anything. So the best think for me is to just not drink. As I can not do it right. I get f-ed up, and make really dumb choices.
I am looking into learning the other non-religious programs...because no matter what AAers say or do...it is still an extremely religious program. And don't get me wrong. I can accept that, and I still love the people. But there is still a fundamental part of the program that goes against who I am. But I still do all I can to learn from the drunks in the program. I love them, and they can help.
bona fido dog-lover
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: SF Bay area, CA
Posts: 99,780
I think the term 'religious' implies a church-like entity. To me, anyway. I think AA is more 'spiritual' than religious, as the Higher Power they depend on can be anyone or anything. I've known of people whose Higher Power was the group itself, the combined energies of the organization and the people who are members of it. That's my opinion anyway. I am not hugely into AA but like their supportive methods and friendship.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 521
First of all...THANKYOU for bringing this topic up. Its something Im kinda struggling with too.
Anyone that Ive talked to in AA that has *IT* tells me that just like the real world, AA is full of flawed human beings.
Im looking for a sponsor who has *IT*...I found him, and now there are people who take issue with the fact that he's a HE and Im a SHE!
After much thought and conversation with healthy AA folks, Ive come to realize that what others think of me is none of my business. How I run my program is my business. How others run their program is their business.
Live and let live.
If youn look around those rooms, talk with some people and listen with an open mind...it becomes very evident which folks are on to something, and which ones are still searching.
Im hanging with the ones who are on to something.
I hope you do too.
Peace and love.
Anyone that Ive talked to in AA that has *IT* tells me that just like the real world, AA is full of flawed human beings.
Im looking for a sponsor who has *IT*...I found him, and now there are people who take issue with the fact that he's a HE and Im a SHE!
After much thought and conversation with healthy AA folks, Ive come to realize that what others think of me is none of my business. How I run my program is my business. How others run their program is their business.
Live and let live.
If youn look around those rooms, talk with some people and listen with an open mind...it becomes very evident which folks are on to something, and which ones are still searching.
Im hanging with the ones who are on to something.
I hope you do too.
Peace and love.
Your attitude, not your aptitude, will determine your altitude
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Oxnard (The Nard), CA, USA.
Posts: 13,954
Originally Posted by crisco 
I have no tolerance with rigid thinking and sponsor's absolute control of over my life. I have no tolerance to AA group that is very narrow-minded in their thinking.
Follow Directions!
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Fredericksburg, Va.
Posts: 9,730
Crisco # one there are no rules in AA!!!
As others have said very well a sponsor is someone who helps a sponsee work the steps, they do make suggestions, you can choose to follow them or not.
You have just as much right to change sponsors as a sponsor does to decide not to be your sponsor.
When I asked my sponsor to be my sponsor we sat down and talked, I let him know what I was seeking and he let me know how he could help me get there and what he felt comfortable with me doing, at any time either of us could have said, well maybe I should find someone else.
I do the same with my sponsees.
As others have said very well a sponsor is someone who helps a sponsee work the steps, they do make suggestions, you can choose to follow them or not.
You have just as much right to change sponsors as a sponsor does to decide not to be your sponsor.
When I asked my sponsor to be my sponsor we sat down and talked, I let him know what I was seeking and he let me know how he could help me get there and what he felt comfortable with me doing, at any time either of us could have said, well maybe I should find someone else.
I do the same with my sponsees.
Seriously Fun!
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: California coast
Posts: 415
Originally Posted by Tazman53
Crisco # one there are no rules in AA!!!
As others have said very well a sponsor is someone who helps a sponsee work the steps, they do make suggestions, you can choose to follow them or not.
As others have said very well a sponsor is someone who helps a sponsee work the steps, they do make suggestions, you can choose to follow them or not.
He rams it down my throat. but he does try. And he has been there for me like no one else, except my sister. Who is not an AAer, but loves me, and really cares. So she is my life line.
I love my Dad, and we have mended our broken ties...but his AA views are pretty hardcore. He does not think I will make it if I don't find a thinking higher power. Not just a spiritual path...but an actual thinking outer-space-being, type higher power.
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