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Powerless vs Choice??

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Old 02-21-2008, 06:07 AM
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Originally Posted by nandm View Post
My response to your question may appear long but I believe that if you read it you will find the answer as "the answer is in the book."

I have highlighted in red a section that it sounds like you are having the most question about. Hope this helps.

Big Book on Step One
________________________________________
Hank P. admitted defeat xxix:6

This man took his first step. The admission to ourselves that we are beaten, that the resources we have at our disposal are not going to save us, that unless we find a solution we will die, is a necessary first step in recovery. This admission is an essential precondition to recovery. This is a vital part of the solution to our problem.

Fitz M. made his own diagnosis xxix:16

Once again the first step in recovery is illustrated. We must make our own diagnosis of our condition. Are we alcoholic? Can we cure ourselves?
The authors have no intention of pronouncing us alcoholic. If we are alcoholic, perhaps we can see some similarity with ourselves in the doctor’s description of alcoholism.

Bill W admits defeat 8:9-11

Bill, by admitting to himself his powerlessness, takes his first step. Perhaps we feel as hopeless as Bill. Are we able to control our drinking once we start? Are we unable to quit drinking despite our sincere desire to do so? How have the things we have tried to overcome drinking worked for us? Can we admit that alcohol is more powerful than we are? If we can, then we have taken the first step toward recovery.

Bill W feels hopeless 10:3

For many of us the willingness to begin this program was produced by our realization of the hopelessness of our situation. We had nowhere else to turn. The program was presented to us by people for whom it had worked. Nothing else has worked for us so we grab hold of these principles as we do for life itself.

Ebby T had admitted complete defeat 11:12-16

The seeming hopelessness of alcoholism has been recognized for thousands of years. Prior to the advent of Alcoholics Anonymous most of those afflicted with alcoholism lost their minds or died. For over 60 years, millions of alcoholics have found relief through the application of the spiritual principles described in this book. This vast amount of experience is one very good reason for us to stop aruguing and explore for ourselves this new way of life.


Bill W admitted his need for God 13:7

Bill learned of the physical component of alcoholism from Dr. Silkworth. He knew that when he drank he was unable to stop. All medical science could suggest to him was entire abstinence. Knowing through his own experience that it was impossible for him to remain abstinent, Bill felt that he was hopeless. Bill was presented with the solution to his alcoholism by Ebby T., an old school friend. Ebby showed Bill a program of action used by the Oxford Group. Bill describes the ideas and attitudes he adopted and the techniques he began to practice. The result was a deep and effective spiritual experience allowing Bill access to a Power sufficient to overcome his alcoholism.


Hopeless and futile 25:5
Here are millions of people who say that this new way of life is better than anything they have ever tried. If we really are powerless over alcohol, if our lives really are unmanageable, if we really are beyond human aid, what then do we have to lose? This solution is being offered to us, not forced upon us. We can pick up these tools and begin to use them to reconstruct our shattered lives.

directions for taking first step 30:7-8

There are several ways we learn that we must admit powerlessness over alcohol. We learn by reading the book up to this point and by the example of the authors as well as millions of recovered alcoholics. Sometimes we learn by our own mistakes. Repeated failed attempts to control our drinking brings to ourselves that we are powerless over alcohol.

To fully concede is to admit that we are alcoholic. Any reservations we have must be set aside. This is not merely complying with the precepts of this program so as to avoid the negative results of drinking, but a complete and total surrender to the fact that we can not drink any alcohol at all and we never will be able to drink alcohol normally.

Who are we to admit our alcoholism to ---our group, the police, our spouse? We are to make our admission to ourselves. No one else matters. We must speak to our hearts when making this admission.

These are the directions on how to take our first step. The author’s promise was that they would show us precisely and specifically what they have done to recover and supply us with clear-cut directions. The directions are that we must admit we are, in fact, alcoholic and that we make this admission to ourselves. From the moment we make the admission, we can begin to recover
.


we admitted we were powerless 59:8

Here the program of action is laid out for us to examine. If we have taken the first two steps toward recovery, we can now decide whether we want to continue. To go on as we have been, or to accept a way of life based on the conscious awareness of the existence of God, what is our choice to be?


we draw our own conclusion 92:11

Once a pickle, always a pickle. There is no return to normal drinking for a person who has begun to experience the phenomenon of craving. Examining “Bill’s Story” will help prepare us to relate some of our failed attempts to overcome drinking through willpower, self knowledge, firm resolve etc. Once we acquire an alcoholic mind there is little hope of recovery through human power (24:15). Left to our own resources we undoubtedly will return to drinking.

we decide for ourselves 95:15

If we are pressured we may submit to the fact that we cannot drink. Submission is not surrender. Submission does not lead to recovery.


Dr Bob admitted powerlessness 155:6


yes, that's me 157:19


capitulated entirely 160:9
I will spend the weekend poring over this. Outstanding. Thank you so much!

warrens
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Old 02-21-2008, 06:44 AM
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The powerless over alcohol was hard for me to admit , not as much the morality, but just the fact of admitting defeat, pride and at first the feeling of being helpless.
Trying to disect all that is overwhelming..

Take care,John
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Old 02-21-2008, 06:44 AM
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hey warrens...

ya kind of reminded me of a sign...

"Free Beer Tommorow"

live in the day!

ta ta for now!
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Old 02-21-2008, 07:13 AM
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Great thread warren, seems like your making good head way
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Old 02-21-2008, 07:13 AM
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Warren,
My experience of choice or not is that early in my DISEASE it was a choice , but as the demon progressed the only choices i had were to drink ,or get help because my body had become dependent of alcohol to function properly. When you have progressed that far in this crap it can kill you if you do not drink or get medical attention for the detox.
Wishing for the dt's and withdrawls,? Trust me stop while you are ahead.


Take care, John
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Old 02-21-2008, 07:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Rusty Zipper View Post
hey warrens...

ya kind of reminded me of a sign...

"Free Beer Tommorow"

live in the day!

ta ta for now!
Forgive me, but I don't "get" it and I wish to. Cre to explain?

Understanding is key.

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Old 02-21-2008, 06:18 PM
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warrens, i almost dont want to explain to leave it to you to figure out!

i wont tho...

my first sponsor told me a story of a bar that always had a sign up that said!

"Free Beer Tommorow"

all the drunks would keep coming back the next day to see that same sign, would come back, again and again to see it stil there!

sounds like repeating the same thing, and expecting different results

and another way to say... live in the now...

thats what helps keep us living sober...

if we have one foot behind us, and one in front of us...

were pisssing on today!

good wishes our inqusative friend...

rz
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Old 02-21-2008, 06:27 PM
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Hah! Rusty Zipper. Ya got me. Well done. I'm sure glad you didn't let it hang. I've read and written so much on here lately, I'd forgotten your little reference.

Thanks and stay on me!

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Old 02-22-2008, 06:00 AM
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warrens
Thanks and stay on me!
you bet!

and ya ought'a of not said that!!! lol
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Old 02-22-2008, 10:26 AM
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......love it!

Today, it is......

~ C
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