I'm Not Sick....You're Sick.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: somewhere, SD
Posts: 177
There -are- people who can enjoy a glass or two of wine,
A couple beers at a game,
a night getting flat out drunk,
and not have a problem like we do.
Our addiction isn't their problem.
Frankly I'm very glad that there are people not-afflicted who go out
of their way to help those of us who are.
Yes, understand your triggers, yes, understand your environments,
but nothing good is going to come of blaming others for your drinking.
Ever.
If being around people who are drinking makes it much harder for you
and often gets you to relapse?...stay away from situations where
people are drinking.
"Oh but my friends..."
"Oh but these dinners and parties and social gatherings.."
"Oh but for work sometimes we go.."
"Oh but there was this client..."
At risk of being blunt. Too bad. Don't go.
"..and are willing to go to any lengths to achieve sobriety.."
All those situations are included.
Is society sick? Sure. It's made of people.
Hooked on violence, gore, websites designed to help people cheat on their
spouses are raking in cash, drugs flood the streets, crack dealers and teenage
prostitutes are never going to run out of customers.
It's only my personal opinion, but I believe that if you know of certain
situations or environments that are going to cause you to fall,
then it is your responsibility to avoid those circumstances and remove
yourself from those environments.
Sorry if I sounded harsh.
A couple beers at a game,
a night getting flat out drunk,
and not have a problem like we do.
Our addiction isn't their problem.
Frankly I'm very glad that there are people not-afflicted who go out
of their way to help those of us who are.
Yes, understand your triggers, yes, understand your environments,
but nothing good is going to come of blaming others for your drinking.
Ever.
If being around people who are drinking makes it much harder for you
and often gets you to relapse?...stay away from situations where
people are drinking.
"Oh but my friends..."
"Oh but these dinners and parties and social gatherings.."
"Oh but for work sometimes we go.."
"Oh but there was this client..."
At risk of being blunt. Too bad. Don't go.
"..and are willing to go to any lengths to achieve sobriety.."
All those situations are included.
Is society sick? Sure. It's made of people.
Hooked on violence, gore, websites designed to help people cheat on their
spouses are raking in cash, drugs flood the streets, crack dealers and teenage
prostitutes are never going to run out of customers.
It's only my personal opinion, but I believe that if you know of certain
situations or environments that are going to cause you to fall,
then it is your responsibility to avoid those circumstances and remove
yourself from those environments.
Sorry if I sounded harsh.
Bring Laughter Wherever You Go
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 357
Anodyne;
I don't think anyone read my posts clearly enough....I stated that MOST, not all, MOST people drink too much. I too know people who have a few drinks and that is it, but that is not the majority.
Secondly, if I could avoid all circumstances that involved drinking, I'd have to be a hermit.
Thridly, I don't blame anyone else for my problems. I only said being around drinking makes it difficult, but being around chocolate cake makes it difficult not to have a piece either.
I don't see anywhere in my posts where I blame others for my sickness.
And lastly, a reminder to all, this post stated SEVERAL times that this was my slant on things, this was my way of thinking of things. I didn't once claim that this is what I thought was right for everyone.
I don't think anyone read my posts clearly enough....I stated that MOST, not all, MOST people drink too much. I too know people who have a few drinks and that is it, but that is not the majority.
Secondly, if I could avoid all circumstances that involved drinking, I'd have to be a hermit.
Thridly, I don't blame anyone else for my problems. I only said being around drinking makes it difficult, but being around chocolate cake makes it difficult not to have a piece either.
I don't see anywhere in my posts where I blame others for my sickness.
And lastly, a reminder to all, this post stated SEVERAL times that this was my slant on things, this was my way of thinking of things. I didn't once claim that this is what I thought was right for everyone.
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,355
I then thought that if nobody else around me drank, if nobody in the world drank, would I have such a hard time staying sober myself. I don't think so. I know for a fact, that it is much easier for me to stay sober when others around me ARE NOT drinking. It is when everyone else is having drinks that I really struggle.
I stated that MOST, not all, MOST people drink too much.
You're entitled to your opinions. If it works for you, great. But I don't agree.
D
JUST DO IT!!
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Here Or There
Posts: 7,612
Originally Posted by tay-lyn 
Why should I think of myself as the one who is sick when I am clean and sober? Maybe I should think about everyone else as sick.
Bring Laughter Wherever You Go
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 357
Originally Posted by Dee74
This sounds like blame to me - sly blame - but blame nonetheless - but hey what do I know?
D
D
No.
As far as how many people do and don't drink, everyone has different experiences with that. The fact that you (and others) say they don't, is the same as me (and others) saying it is our experience that they do.
No biggie.
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,355
I know if I'm craving my favorite ketchup chips and my husband is eating a bag in front of me, it makes it more difficult to NOT have any.....is that blame?
No.
No.
No drinking. No matter what trigger, what provocation, what excuse.
Do we agree on that ?
LOL can we be done now ?
please?
D
Member
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: somewhere, SD
Posts: 177
Tay - no, 'most' people do not drink too much.
I can name off six out of my ten best friends who don't drink at all,
and they are college age and not alcoholics.
I can have plenty of social interraction sans drinking, sans anyone drinking,
and it be a good time.
No, you don't have to be a 'hermit' to avoid social situations that include 'most people
drinking, and too much at that, those sickos!"
There is a better than average chance that there are a lot more people in your
town than in mine, and yet I manage to find a lot of things to do, with people,
without anyone taking a single drink. And the majority of those things involve people
who have nothing to do with AA or recovery or alcoholism.
There is plenty to do that doesn't involve people drinking, it is just out of your
comfort zone. Out of your realm of experiance.
Find it. You will be absolutely amazed at the caliber of people, and the honest
good times you can have, without anyone drinking anything.
"Oh cops and important people in my town and blah blah all drink, way too much"
Sure they do. There are also cops, important people, movers and shakers, goths,
punks, straight edge, preps, athletes, artists, scribners, dancers, rich people, poor people, average waged people, single people, married people, boring people, fun people,
brilliant people, annoying people, skeptics, soothesayers, agnostics, christians, wiccans,
catholics, pagans, authors, sociologicaly inclined persons, hot people, average people,
ugly people, kinky people, vanilla people, etc etc etc, right in your own town, who
have no idea at all about alcoholism, but still rarely, if ever, even think of "oh having some drinks would be good" when they think of what they want to do that day/night.
The fact is, and I think some part of you already knows this, that you would not have
to be any sort of hermit or recluse to avoid people drinking, you would have to change
social circles, and that scares the hell out of you.
Drinking again should scare you more. But eh, we are what we are. Persistant if nothing else. We go through so much crap that 'normal' people would take one look at and say,
"Holy cow, I'm never doing that sh*t again!"
I'm only saying this because I believe you are focusing your anger at people who
don't deserve it, finding any way you can to give yourself a free ride, make yourself
the victim, make it so you have NO other choice. And I understand that. I did that for years. A lot of people here probably did that for years.
A lot of people are biting their tongues on this, because if it works for any single one
person ever, it is a good thing, for that person.
But I've been right where you are, and it is not going to work. It is going to lead to feelings of resentment and entitlement. Don't tell yourself you're better than people
who drink. Don't say OMFG I CANT REMOVE MYSELF FROM THIS SOCIAL CIRCLE!! IT IS WORTH MORE THAN MY LIFE!!
It is YOUR disorder. YOUR genetic fault. YOUR problem. Not theirs.
If you want to put it in our view, anyone who ever takes a single drink of alchol is
drinking too much..because that is too much for us.
Get used to the fact that you are going to have to reinvent your ideas of what 'normal'
and 'socially acceptable' are or that you are going to be relapsing over and over and over
and over again.
I've relapsed what, three times now? Each time, someone -did- something...but also each time I set the table for it by getting lax in my meetings, in thinking of how it was others faults, how I had the RIGHT to drink if I wanted to, by thinking that this was how 'normal people have fun.' etc.
Did you ask to be afflicted with this? No. I know that. We all know that. But when I see a diabetic b*tching about how the rest of the world is SICK because of how much
sugar they consume, I'll reccomend them to a hospital and evaluation.
No one save you is responsible for your addiction. No one. Even if you are not to blame,
even if it was predisposed by genetics, you have it, not them, you deal with it. Once
you accept that it is 100% on you, you will be amazed by the amount of people, probably even some of the ones you say drink too much, who will be standing in line to help hold you up when you feel like you're going to fall.
I am sorry for being so harsh twice, but you have to understand, that even if it is not
your -fault- it IS your problem. Projecting it on the rest of the world, no matter how
vile of tendancies we can drudge up, is not going to do you a tiny bit of good.
It is scary, a lot, trying to change your social perception, but, if it uplifts you at all,
I have quite a few friend I used to drink with who at the moment make it very clear
to me that they do not want me to drink, do not drink around me, and yet still come
around almost every day, and ask me how I am doing with sobriety.
People might not judge you nearly as harshly as you seem to fear.
Please..give it a try?
I can name off six out of my ten best friends who don't drink at all,
and they are college age and not alcoholics.
I can have plenty of social interraction sans drinking, sans anyone drinking,
and it be a good time.
No, you don't have to be a 'hermit' to avoid social situations that include 'most people
drinking, and too much at that, those sickos!"
There is a better than average chance that there are a lot more people in your
town than in mine, and yet I manage to find a lot of things to do, with people,
without anyone taking a single drink. And the majority of those things involve people
who have nothing to do with AA or recovery or alcoholism.
There is plenty to do that doesn't involve people drinking, it is just out of your
comfort zone. Out of your realm of experiance.
Find it. You will be absolutely amazed at the caliber of people, and the honest
good times you can have, without anyone drinking anything.
"Oh cops and important people in my town and blah blah all drink, way too much"
Sure they do. There are also cops, important people, movers and shakers, goths,
punks, straight edge, preps, athletes, artists, scribners, dancers, rich people, poor people, average waged people, single people, married people, boring people, fun people,
brilliant people, annoying people, skeptics, soothesayers, agnostics, christians, wiccans,
catholics, pagans, authors, sociologicaly inclined persons, hot people, average people,
ugly people, kinky people, vanilla people, etc etc etc, right in your own town, who
have no idea at all about alcoholism, but still rarely, if ever, even think of "oh having some drinks would be good" when they think of what they want to do that day/night.
The fact is, and I think some part of you already knows this, that you would not have
to be any sort of hermit or recluse to avoid people drinking, you would have to change
social circles, and that scares the hell out of you.
Drinking again should scare you more. But eh, we are what we are. Persistant if nothing else. We go through so much crap that 'normal' people would take one look at and say,
"Holy cow, I'm never doing that sh*t again!"
I'm only saying this because I believe you are focusing your anger at people who
don't deserve it, finding any way you can to give yourself a free ride, make yourself
the victim, make it so you have NO other choice. And I understand that. I did that for years. A lot of people here probably did that for years.
A lot of people are biting their tongues on this, because if it works for any single one
person ever, it is a good thing, for that person.
But I've been right where you are, and it is not going to work. It is going to lead to feelings of resentment and entitlement. Don't tell yourself you're better than people
who drink. Don't say OMFG I CANT REMOVE MYSELF FROM THIS SOCIAL CIRCLE!! IT IS WORTH MORE THAN MY LIFE!!
It is YOUR disorder. YOUR genetic fault. YOUR problem. Not theirs.
If you want to put it in our view, anyone who ever takes a single drink of alchol is
drinking too much..because that is too much for us.
Get used to the fact that you are going to have to reinvent your ideas of what 'normal'
and 'socially acceptable' are or that you are going to be relapsing over and over and over
and over again.
I've relapsed what, three times now? Each time, someone -did- something...but also each time I set the table for it by getting lax in my meetings, in thinking of how it was others faults, how I had the RIGHT to drink if I wanted to, by thinking that this was how 'normal people have fun.' etc.
Did you ask to be afflicted with this? No. I know that. We all know that. But when I see a diabetic b*tching about how the rest of the world is SICK because of how much
sugar they consume, I'll reccomend them to a hospital and evaluation.
No one save you is responsible for your addiction. No one. Even if you are not to blame,
even if it was predisposed by genetics, you have it, not them, you deal with it. Once
you accept that it is 100% on you, you will be amazed by the amount of people, probably even some of the ones you say drink too much, who will be standing in line to help hold you up when you feel like you're going to fall.
I am sorry for being so harsh twice, but you have to understand, that even if it is not
your -fault- it IS your problem. Projecting it on the rest of the world, no matter how
vile of tendancies we can drudge up, is not going to do you a tiny bit of good.
It is scary, a lot, trying to change your social perception, but, if it uplifts you at all,
I have quite a few friend I used to drink with who at the moment make it very clear
to me that they do not want me to drink, do not drink around me, and yet still come
around almost every day, and ask me how I am doing with sobriety.
People might not judge you nearly as harshly as you seem to fear.
Please..give it a try?
Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,299
I really couldn't give a toss what everyone else is supposedly doing or not doing.
When it comes to recovery?I'll be selfish here and say-it's about what I choose for myself-nothing to do with what anyone else does.
There will always be other people supposedly having a better life, better jobs, better sex, better fun, than me.Who really gives a crap?
It's very much about being content with what I have-now.And focusing on that and being grateful.
I do care about other people, but I won't waste my time wondering if they drink too much, or too little, or whatever.It's none of my business.Focusing on that stuff gets me nowhere.
Just my thoughts.
Jules.
When it comes to recovery?I'll be selfish here and say-it's about what I choose for myself-nothing to do with what anyone else does.
There will always be other people supposedly having a better life, better jobs, better sex, better fun, than me.Who really gives a crap?
It's very much about being content with what I have-now.And focusing on that and being grateful.
I do care about other people, but I won't waste my time wondering if they drink too much, or too little, or whatever.It's none of my business.Focusing on that stuff gets me nowhere.
Just my thoughts.
Jules.
Bring Laughter Wherever You Go
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 357
Anodyne;
I don't read your post's because I don't believe you've read mine carefully enough. You didn't 'get' anything I was trying to say. You picked apart what I said and pontificated and preached 'your point of view' while picking apart mine.
I'm not closed minded, I try to look at all things with different slants and in the end I use what works for me.
I'm not going to read anymore of the posts on this thread because it is posts like yours that have turned this thread into something different than what I originally posted.
Anywho.....I hope you have a great day. I'm going to!
I don't read your post's because I don't believe you've read mine carefully enough. You didn't 'get' anything I was trying to say. You picked apart what I said and pontificated and preached 'your point of view' while picking apart mine.
I'm not closed minded, I try to look at all things with different slants and in the end I use what works for me.
I'm not going to read anymore of the posts on this thread because it is posts like yours that have turned this thread into something different than what I originally posted.
Anywho.....I hope you have a great day. I'm going to!
Member
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,397
Originally Posted by tay-lyn
LOL
Oh ya, another problem I have is having to have the last word!
LOL
Yes, we're done with it. Thanks for the input D.....really!
Oh ya, another problem I have is having to have the last word!
LOL
Yes, we're done with it. Thanks for the input D.....really!
I certainly don't want to put the kibosh on your having the last word, BUT -- I just wanted to say thanks for the thread at least because it generated some pretty good thinking/discussion and proves that although we can sometimes disagree -- we're willing to get along. What a great place.
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,355
Even if you don't agree with posts, you're actually missing out on some pretty good points tay.
Jus' sayin...
and I totally agree with you Newleaf - provoking thought, discussion and debate is what this place should be about
D
Jus' sayin...
and I totally agree with you Newleaf - provoking thought, discussion and debate is what this place should be about
D
JUST DO IT!!
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Here Or There
Posts: 7,612
Originally Posted by Anodyne
Tay - no, 'most' people do not drink too much.
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