We CAN be social drinkers?
Take it easy
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Springfield, Va
Posts: 105
There has recently been a popular movement to bash AA/NA and offer all manner of alternative avenues to recovery...several even quote outrageous statistics as proof of their claims. I'm not really angered by this "trend" as much as I'm saddened and fear for those that would pursue the more questionable programs...we all know how strong the draw of addiction is and any hope of normalcy no matter how ridiculas is bound to entice some to try these paths. I truly hope that some will find in these alternative programs a direction that will lead them to recovery!
For me...I'll stick with what I know works, I live life fully and would like to continue to do so. I know I have one more drunk in me...but I don't know if I have one more sober in me...I'm very afraid not!!!
For me...I'll stick with what I know works, I live life fully and would like to continue to do so. I know I have one more drunk in me...but I don't know if I have one more sober in me...I'm very afraid not!!!
Member
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Boston MA
Posts: 666
Even if I could drink sometimes- and I mean drink, not two beers and a hot dog - I wouldn't want to. I see no point in poisoning myself anymore. Alcohol has no place in my life. I like what swmnkd said - I live life fully and would like to continue to do so.
The thought of my two children seeing me with so much as a buzz on sickens me. Drink socially - WHY?
Ain't noway nohow that's gonna happen. Sneak up behind me and take me out quickly and quietly if it does.
Mike
The thought of my two children seeing me with so much as a buzz on sickens me. Drink socially - WHY?
Ain't noway nohow that's gonna happen. Sneak up behind me and take me out quickly and quietly if it does.
Mike
Coffee Drinker
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Lobstah Land
Posts: 1,122
The shrinks are killing us...
The Psychological View
This view of recovery states that addiction is only a symptom of an underlying psychological disorder. In the years since the development of psychoanalysis, many psychological theories have been formed and promoted, each with its own view of the nature of the psychological causes of addictions. The theories range from Freud’s assertion that the alcoholic is expressing latent homosexual tendencies, to the Family Systems Theory concept of the addict as an actor of a role in a dysfunctional family system. Many of these theories, as they have each come into fashion, have had some impact on the Twelve Steps.
Currently, the psychological agreement seems to be that the addict is someone who uses to cope with some kind of pain. This pain might be the result of early child hood trauma, sexual abuse, a dysfunctional family system, low self-esteem, etc. The pain could also be produced by an existing mental disorder, such as Post Traumatic Stress, Bipolar Disorder, Schizophrenia, depression, etc. Addicts of this second kind are called “dual diagnosis,” because they are diagnosed with their mental disorder and addiction. Because addicts are seen as using to cope with pain, addiction is sometimes called “self-medicating.”
Recovery in the Psychological View is the process by which an addict learns appropriate methods of self-care. Treatment focuses on treating the source of the addict’s pain, and teaching the addict new ways to cope with pain. There is much talk about “feeling feelings,” and overcoming fears and shame. Sobriety is seen as a time of self-discovery, because feelings surface that were suppressed by using. Because most of these feelings are uncomfortable, the Psychological View attempts to help people in recovery to manage life while processing difficult emotions. Often, addicts are encouraged to use self-affirmations to build a positive self-image and increase self-esteem. Recovering people are instructed in the basics of self-care: hygiene, nutrition, sleep, and healthy social interaction. Sometimes, the word “H.A.L.T.” is used to remind people in recovery to stop and take care of themselves when they feel “Hungry, Angry, Lonely, or Tired.” The Psychological View encourages proper medication for people who have a dual diagnosis, and regular talk therapy, with emphasis on processing the pain of childhood and difficult personal relationships.
Working the Twelve Steps is not central to the Psychological View of recovery. When the Steps are worked in this View, they tend to be an extension of the type of therapy mentioned above. One realizes one’s powerlessness and turns one’s life over to professional treatment. Inventory is usually “balanced,” meaning that for every negative aspect of self, there is a positive one as well. Inventory also tends to explore things like family dynamics, early child hood trauma, instances where the recovering person feels that he/she has been victimized, etc. Amends are not emphasized in the Psychological View. In fact, most Twelve-Step rehabs will only utilize the first five Steps. Twelfth Step work is almost non-existent in the Psychological View, as professional treatment is seen as filling the role of ‘sponsor.’
Meetings in this View are seen as important to the recovery process. The Psychological View understands meetings in nearly the same manner as does the Re-Socialization View. For the Psychological View, meetings are important not for mutual-aid as much as for group therapy. The emphasis is not on “we help one another out,” but “we each get our turn to process feelings.” Often, addicts exiting treatment will be instructed to attend “90 meetings in 90 days,” and meeting attendance is often part of the routine at rehab. However, in many cases, the Psychological View feels that meeting attendance is not enough for the recovering person. Regular visits to a councilor are encouraged.
The Psychological View’s expectations for recovering people are equal to or less than those of the Re-Socialization View. Addicts are expected to struggle greatly with mental obsession and difficult feelings for the rest of their lives. One figure in the Psychological View, Terrence Gorski, has defined what he calls Post Acute Withdrawal Syndrome. PAWS predicts that people in recovery will not be able to get better through meeting attendance and Stepwork. Instead, the addict needs to see a PAWS trained therapist, or they will have severe symptoms of Post Acute Withdrawal Syndrome that will likely cause them to relapse. These symptoms can never be eliminated, only managed.
Stories of people recovering in the Psychological View often reflect their experiences in therapy. They speak of learning to feel their feelings, coming to grips with early childhood trauma, becoming better at taking care of themselves, or similar topics. Sometimes stories will include mention of Stepwork, but it is usually clear that this is Psychological and not Conversion Experience style Stepwork. Stories include much Psychological language, and will often focus on the emotional accomplishments of the speaker. The process of self-discovery and learning to love oneself feature strongly in Psychological View stories.
For more info:
http://stepstudy.org/html/basics/threeviews.html
The Psychological View
This view of recovery states that addiction is only a symptom of an underlying psychological disorder. In the years since the development of psychoanalysis, many psychological theories have been formed and promoted, each with its own view of the nature of the psychological causes of addictions. The theories range from Freud’s assertion that the alcoholic is expressing latent homosexual tendencies, to the Family Systems Theory concept of the addict as an actor of a role in a dysfunctional family system. Many of these theories, as they have each come into fashion, have had some impact on the Twelve Steps.
Currently, the psychological agreement seems to be that the addict is someone who uses to cope with some kind of pain. This pain might be the result of early child hood trauma, sexual abuse, a dysfunctional family system, low self-esteem, etc. The pain could also be produced by an existing mental disorder, such as Post Traumatic Stress, Bipolar Disorder, Schizophrenia, depression, etc. Addicts of this second kind are called “dual diagnosis,” because they are diagnosed with their mental disorder and addiction. Because addicts are seen as using to cope with pain, addiction is sometimes called “self-medicating.”
Recovery in the Psychological View is the process by which an addict learns appropriate methods of self-care. Treatment focuses on treating the source of the addict’s pain, and teaching the addict new ways to cope with pain. There is much talk about “feeling feelings,” and overcoming fears and shame. Sobriety is seen as a time of self-discovery, because feelings surface that were suppressed by using. Because most of these feelings are uncomfortable, the Psychological View attempts to help people in recovery to manage life while processing difficult emotions. Often, addicts are encouraged to use self-affirmations to build a positive self-image and increase self-esteem. Recovering people are instructed in the basics of self-care: hygiene, nutrition, sleep, and healthy social interaction. Sometimes, the word “H.A.L.T.” is used to remind people in recovery to stop and take care of themselves when they feel “Hungry, Angry, Lonely, or Tired.” The Psychological View encourages proper medication for people who have a dual diagnosis, and regular talk therapy, with emphasis on processing the pain of childhood and difficult personal relationships.
Working the Twelve Steps is not central to the Psychological View of recovery. When the Steps are worked in this View, they tend to be an extension of the type of therapy mentioned above. One realizes one’s powerlessness and turns one’s life over to professional treatment. Inventory is usually “balanced,” meaning that for every negative aspect of self, there is a positive one as well. Inventory also tends to explore things like family dynamics, early child hood trauma, instances where the recovering person feels that he/she has been victimized, etc. Amends are not emphasized in the Psychological View. In fact, most Twelve-Step rehabs will only utilize the first five Steps. Twelfth Step work is almost non-existent in the Psychological View, as professional treatment is seen as filling the role of ‘sponsor.’
Meetings in this View are seen as important to the recovery process. The Psychological View understands meetings in nearly the same manner as does the Re-Socialization View. For the Psychological View, meetings are important not for mutual-aid as much as for group therapy. The emphasis is not on “we help one another out,” but “we each get our turn to process feelings.” Often, addicts exiting treatment will be instructed to attend “90 meetings in 90 days,” and meeting attendance is often part of the routine at rehab. However, in many cases, the Psychological View feels that meeting attendance is not enough for the recovering person. Regular visits to a councilor are encouraged.
The Psychological View’s expectations for recovering people are equal to or less than those of the Re-Socialization View. Addicts are expected to struggle greatly with mental obsession and difficult feelings for the rest of their lives. One figure in the Psychological View, Terrence Gorski, has defined what he calls Post Acute Withdrawal Syndrome. PAWS predicts that people in recovery will not be able to get better through meeting attendance and Stepwork. Instead, the addict needs to see a PAWS trained therapist, or they will have severe symptoms of Post Acute Withdrawal Syndrome that will likely cause them to relapse. These symptoms can never be eliminated, only managed.
Stories of people recovering in the Psychological View often reflect their experiences in therapy. They speak of learning to feel their feelings, coming to grips with early childhood trauma, becoming better at taking care of themselves, or similar topics. Sometimes stories will include mention of Stepwork, but it is usually clear that this is Psychological and not Conversion Experience style Stepwork. Stories include much Psychological language, and will often focus on the emotional accomplishments of the speaker. The process of self-discovery and learning to love oneself feature strongly in Psychological View stories.
For more info:
http://stepstudy.org/html/basics/threeviews.html
Community Greeter
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Upstate New York
Posts: 51,554
Thanks, Groucho - that's such interesting info. In this book, these two quote unbelievable statistics regarding AA's failure rate. They need to be made accountable for the potential damage they're doing.
Swim Naked, you are so right - being older it became more & more a struggle to pull myself up out of the depths of a binge. One more could be my last, and if not, where would it end? Would I cross the median & take out a family in an SUV? (By the way, do you ever come to O.C. for bike week?)
Swim Naked, you are so right - being older it became more & more a struggle to pull myself up out of the depths of a binge. One more could be my last, and if not, where would it end? Would I cross the median & take out a family in an SUV? (By the way, do you ever come to O.C. for bike week?)
Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Omak WA
Posts: 1,049
Psychologist's view on drinking...
When I went to counseling back in 1970 my counselor told me that he didn't think I was an alcoholic but a person with life problems & that I drank to forget. Many years later this man was my boss and had a drinking problem. 
I would quit for a year here and there but never stay quit. I went to AA about the same way and didn't get a sponsor or work the steps.
In 1988 I was at the end of another life event that I escaped from by drinking every day and all weekend. I finally came to the end of the road and asked for help again but this time I had to detox in a hospital, get help for depression/clinical and went to AA, got a sponsor, & worked the steps. :day4
That was 19 years ago and I am still sober and still being treated for my depression with a stability in both.
I wanted to be sober more than anything else in my life and I was willing to do everything suggested. I had a counselor for my depression and one for my alcoholism besides my daily AA meeting for the first year of my sobriety. It worked and it is still working today.
kelsh
I would quit for a year here and there but never stay quit. I went to AA about the same way and didn't get a sponsor or work the steps.
In 1988 I was at the end of another life event that I escaped from by drinking every day and all weekend. I finally came to the end of the road and asked for help again but this time I had to detox in a hospital, get help for depression/clinical and went to AA, got a sponsor, & worked the steps. :day4
That was 19 years ago and I am still sober and still being treated for my depression with a stability in both.
I wanted to be sober more than anything else in my life and I was willing to do everything suggested. I had a counselor for my depression and one for my alcoholism besides my daily AA meeting for the first year of my sobriety. It worked and it is still working today.
kelsh
Coffee Drinker
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Lobstah Land
Posts: 1,122
One thing I do need to say, and thanks kelsh for pointing it out.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with seeking help from a Psychologist, Psychiatrist, Counselor, Therapist or other health care professional. Some in recovery have problems other than alcoholism and one should always seek appropriate treatment.
There is an excellent discussion of this topic in the book "Beyond Recovery".
There are mental health professionals that understand alcoholism, but I venture to say that most do not.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with seeking help from a Psychologist, Psychiatrist, Counselor, Therapist or other health care professional. Some in recovery have problems other than alcoholism and one should always seek appropriate treatment.
There is an excellent discussion of this topic in the book "Beyond Recovery".
There are mental health professionals that understand alcoholism, but I venture to say that most do not.
Community Greeter
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Upstate New York
Posts: 51,554
Thanks, Stone, that's the bottom line. That's what I really wanted to say. I'm mad that it's being advertised as a "great gift for alcoholics this holiday season" - on Amazon, I think! Some great gift.
Awaiting Email Confirmation
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 140
This Drunk Monkey video is as good a rebuttal as any.
Old & Sober Member of AA
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Nursing Home in Brick, New Jersey
Posts: 5,174
I'm mad that it's being advertised as a "great gift for alcoholics this holiday season" - on Amazon, I think! Some great gift.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: CA
Posts: 13
This is a tough one ...
I believed alcoholism was a physical disease until this year. In my own case I realize it's a mental weakness. I know that if I have one drink I will mentally want more and more, but my body does not really want or need it.
I don't doubt that some alcoholics can be social drinkers: many probably can't.
I believed alcoholism was a physical disease until this year. In my own case I realize it's a mental weakness. I know that if I have one drink I will mentally want more and more, but my body does not really want or need it.
I don't doubt that some alcoholics can be social drinkers: many probably can't.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: www.ericwhitfieldart.com
Posts: 114
I refuse to judge another's approach. Maybe this DOES work for them. Personally, as cold as it sounds...I don't care. I need only be concerned with what works for me...and the decisions I make. Speaking for myself, I would NEVER state that I can never drink again or that I never will drink again...or that I can never be a social drinker. And I ABSOLUTELY wold never be so presumptuous as to suggest such things to someone else. All of these statements are attempts at predicting the future...something I am certain I can not do (nor would I want to). Maybe I could be a social drinker....fact is, though...I am not willing to take that risk to find out. If I were to seek a reason to be a social drinker...what does that say about my attachment to alcohol? Hmmmmm...I just prefer to leave it alone for this moment. It's just nice to know that this approach has allowed my moments to add up to over 11 years - and it's not the 11 years of sobriety thats important - it's the 11 years of health and happiness - a drink is just a drink. Life is life and I choose to celebrate every second of it!! 
Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: www.ericwhitfieldart.com
Posts: 114
Originally Posted by Jersey Nonny 
Joanie...I'm concerned right now that you're allowing these idiots and their idiotic drivvel to upset you so. You must realize that anyone foolish enough to feed into this pap is just looking for an excuse to drink...and, they'll find one, whether it be this book or something else. We can only take care of ourselves and each other as we try to get/stay sober.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: El Cerrito, California
Posts: 580
I accidentally had a piece of rum cake when I was a month and a half sober, and felt completely nuts for the rest of the day. It convinced me that even if I wanted to blow off the rest of my life, a satisfactory buzz isn't in the cards.
It took a long time and a lot of work before I stopped feeling deprived. I saw alcohol as a way to deal with a lot of issues, such as loneliness and low self-esteem, and have since found better ways to do that. The bad news is there's no quick fix; the good news is the slow fix actually works.
It took a long time and a lot of work before I stopped feeling deprived. I saw alcohol as a way to deal with a lot of issues, such as loneliness and low self-esteem, and have since found better ways to do that. The bad news is there's no quick fix; the good news is the slow fix actually works.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: London
Posts: 345
Hi Hevyn
Thanks for posting this and giving others a chance to air their view on it. For years it was the mindset that social drinking is possible for me that kept me on this awful carousel. I think we all know its impossible for us but its such a seductive thought and its easy to get pulled down by the irrationality of others.
I wouldnt get too upset about it though. Its frustrating that after so much evidence to the contrary there is someone still prepared to spout this dangerous claptrap but its human nature I guess. By raising the issue and helping others within our community to be aware of the risk, you have done your part to help. the rest is down to the individual and their personal judgement of this risks this presents. I know what I'm going to do! No drinkypoos for me
Thanks for posting this and giving others a chance to air their view on it. For years it was the mindset that social drinking is possible for me that kept me on this awful carousel. I think we all know its impossible for us but its such a seductive thought and its easy to get pulled down by the irrationality of others.
I wouldnt get too upset about it though. Its frustrating that after so much evidence to the contrary there is someone still prepared to spout this dangerous claptrap but its human nature I guess. By raising the issue and helping others within our community to be aware of the risk, you have done your part to help. the rest is down to the individual and their personal judgement of this risks this presents. I know what I'm going to do! No drinkypoos for me
Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 18,299
.I posted a pic called 'Leno' here that looked like your avatar Octo.
I removed because it looked like I was insulting you! It had 'blah' blah' coming out of his head, lol. I hadnt noticed it was animated until I posted it! So I hadnt seen that part.
I removed because it looked like I was insulting you! It had 'blah' blah' coming out of his head, lol. I hadnt noticed it was animated until I posted it! So I hadnt seen that part.
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