Rational Recovery
Guest
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 7,097
wow, this thread is giving RR a bit of a bashing
Then realized thread was 6 years old
Tommy, I use RR and love it,it just makes sense to me and has enabled me to stop drinking and get on with my life, making positive changes as a result of stopping drinking.
I'd recommend you read the book to get a real understanding of it.
Then realized thread was 6 years old
Tommy, I use RR and love it,it just makes sense to me and has enabled me to stop drinking and get on with my life, making positive changes as a result of stopping drinking.
I'd recommend you read the book to get a real understanding of it.
No half measures
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: State of Confusion
Posts: 424
I am hardcore AA but I also think RR is useful especially in early recovery but you have to ignore the AA bashing. RR kept me sober for six months which is pretty impressive. What RR does not address are the underlying causes and social elements. I see RR as one more thing in my tool box
Self recovered Self discovered
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Toronto Canada
Posts: 5,148
Wow, this thread is giving RR a bit of a bashing. Then I realized thread was 6 years old.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Big City
Posts: 3,895
As everyone this side of 2010 seems to have voiced, it's all about using what's out there and what works best. RR along w/ Jason Vale's book and AA principles have worked best for me. Not that I'm there 100% but I'm almost there.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: South East England
Posts: 8,008
I love both AA and RR!
I stopped drinking with AA, and quit smoking with RR. Both addictions were killing me. I was a drinker all my adult life, and a full-blown alcoholic for probably 10 years. I am now 16 months sober. I had tried to stop smoking for 25 years...I'm now 4 months nicotine free. I have had only the utmost support from both the 12 step and secular forums.
I have also added meditation and therapy to my toolbox.
I will use whatever works to free myself of the grip of addiction. There is nothing worse than listening to people wasting their time bashing recovery methods.
Life is too short, especially if we are still drinking!
I stopped drinking with AA, and quit smoking with RR. Both addictions were killing me. I was a drinker all my adult life, and a full-blown alcoholic for probably 10 years. I am now 16 months sober. I had tried to stop smoking for 25 years...I'm now 4 months nicotine free. I have had only the utmost support from both the 12 step and secular forums.
I have also added meditation and therapy to my toolbox.
I will use whatever works to free myself of the grip of addiction. There is nothing worse than listening to people wasting their time bashing recovery methods.
Life is too short, especially if we are still drinking!
Re-Member
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado
Posts: 7,583
I agree Jeni,
I read the book for RR and did AA for the first three months after detox. I recommend them highly, as well as every method on the previous list. Then take what you can use and leave the rest. I also recommend that if one or the other is your anathema that you let sleeping dogs lie.
It is conceivable that a person can overhaul a car engine with just a screwdriver and no other tools. That type will also then go around treating those who use more with contempt as if they aren't as good for doing it the easy way. They usually convince a few subject to that kind of peer pressure. I tend to be silent when I run into causes without a basis, rebels without a cause.
I went and read all of the books, AA's, RR's, SMART, and some other books and videos. I got all the concepts and took what I could use and left the rest three years ago and today am still sober, and recovered as long as I stay in full control of my sobriety. I got triple the tools I needed, threw out the fear, and hatreds, kept the love and knowledge. I have yet to find any group or individual who can save me from myself.
Spend your time here posting, reading, go to meetings, get counseling, read your doctor in and on your support team, your family and friends and if needed like me for a jump start, in hospital detox and/or rehab.
Some hit bottom after killing DUI. Some after seeing the look in their child's eye. Some after losing everything, family and money, house and home.
I believe if any method is not working for you, and you are not using every of the methods above or been through them, then I can help.
Whatever the reason is your problem. If you don't go to meetings because you are afraid. If you don't use RR because it is a long book. Do not go to counseling because you don't want anybody to know, then you have conditions on your recovery. Many can't stay both sober and keep their desire for recovery a secret. As if the other people around them don't already know.
That is a secret some do keep, until they die. Not suicide but whatever accident from drunkenness, or organ failure kills them, and could have been avoided by sobriety.
I believe in unconditional love, and unconditional sobriety. I love myself, unconditionally. Therefore am recovered, unconditionally, and used all the things from every source that might help me get here. SR is a part of that. As is REBT which I used when I was a counselor, combined with parts of AA early on which I am grateful for as well as here, my docs, my friends, the folks in Medical detox, everyone, and everything I took from them that I could use. No one gave me that conditionally except for some of my fellow alcoholics afraid of others knowing or others leaving.
If asked I will try to help. I don't enforce conditions on others, nor try to teach them the error of their ways, manipulate, or argue. I just walk away and let them be.
I read the book for RR and did AA for the first three months after detox. I recommend them highly, as well as every method on the previous list. Then take what you can use and leave the rest. I also recommend that if one or the other is your anathema that you let sleeping dogs lie.
It is conceivable that a person can overhaul a car engine with just a screwdriver and no other tools. That type will also then go around treating those who use more with contempt as if they aren't as good for doing it the easy way. They usually convince a few subject to that kind of peer pressure. I tend to be silent when I run into causes without a basis, rebels without a cause.
I went and read all of the books, AA's, RR's, SMART, and some other books and videos. I got all the concepts and took what I could use and left the rest three years ago and today am still sober, and recovered as long as I stay in full control of my sobriety. I got triple the tools I needed, threw out the fear, and hatreds, kept the love and knowledge. I have yet to find any group or individual who can save me from myself.
Spend your time here posting, reading, go to meetings, get counseling, read your doctor in and on your support team, your family and friends and if needed like me for a jump start, in hospital detox and/or rehab.
Some hit bottom after killing DUI. Some after seeing the look in their child's eye. Some after losing everything, family and money, house and home.
I believe if any method is not working for you, and you are not using every of the methods above or been through them, then I can help.
Whatever the reason is your problem. If you don't go to meetings because you are afraid. If you don't use RR because it is a long book. Do not go to counseling because you don't want anybody to know, then you have conditions on your recovery. Many can't stay both sober and keep their desire for recovery a secret. As if the other people around them don't already know.
That is a secret some do keep, until they die. Not suicide but whatever accident from drunkenness, or organ failure kills them, and could have been avoided by sobriety.
I believe in unconditional love, and unconditional sobriety. I love myself, unconditionally. Therefore am recovered, unconditionally, and used all the things from every source that might help me get here. SR is a part of that. As is REBT which I used when I was a counselor, combined with parts of AA early on which I am grateful for as well as here, my docs, my friends, the folks in Medical detox, everyone, and everything I took from them that I could use. No one gave me that conditionally except for some of my fellow alcoholics afraid of others knowing or others leaving.
If asked I will try to help. I don't enforce conditions on others, nor try to teach them the error of their ways, manipulate, or argue. I just walk away and let them be.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: london
Posts: 4
[QUOTE=Dee74;4210191]Hi Tommy
in the 6 years since this thread was started we actually have a new rule in this forum now to reflect the fact that bashing other recovery methods, no matter who it is, isnt what we do here at SR.
been thinking abut this and undecided whether criticizing other approaches is necessarily a bad idea. How did you come to a decision not to allow criticism of conflicting approaches on this forum? (sincere question) I ask this because A.A is very sensitive to criticism and this is generally a warning sign for me. still haven't got my RR book it's coming from america I think and I'm in UK.
in the 6 years since this thread was started we actually have a new rule in this forum now to reflect the fact that bashing other recovery methods, no matter who it is, isnt what we do here at SR.
been thinking abut this and undecided whether criticizing other approaches is necessarily a bad idea. How did you come to a decision not to allow criticism of conflicting approaches on this forum? (sincere question) I ask this because A.A is very sensitive to criticism and this is generally a warning sign for me. still haven't got my RR book it's coming from america I think and I'm in UK.
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,372
Anna and I are mods of this forum.
We find that SR works best when people share their own experience of what works rather than their opinions of what doesn't.
I think most of the members here would agree with that.
Plus, Anna and I got tired of being referrees and breaking up fights all the time
Our purpose here is support and recovery, not acrimony or arguments - and it works.
We're open to all kinds of recovery approaches here Tommy.
D
We find that SR works best when people share their own experience of what works rather than their opinions of what doesn't.
I think most of the members here would agree with that.
Plus, Anna and I got tired of being referrees and breaking up fights all the time
Our purpose here is support and recovery, not acrimony or arguments - and it works.
We're open to all kinds of recovery approaches here Tommy.
D
Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: london
Posts: 4
fair enough. I just wish I'd had a more balanced view of AA from people with experience before I looked into it. I ended up believing there must be something wrong with my thinking (stinking thinking) since nobody dared to contradict it and nearly everything you hear is positive.
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,372
I think people get a really good balanced view of all approaches when people share their experience Tommy.
The rule I quoted is for this forum only.
The general rule throughout the website is one of respect for others beliefs
Take a look around, here and in the other forums, and see what you think
D
The rule I quoted is for this forum only.
The general rule throughout the website is one of respect for others beliefs
Take a look around, here and in the other forums, and see what you think
D
Keeping it simple!
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Surrey, BC
Posts: 3,282
Originally Posted by LauraSFO1 
Whatever works for people I'm all for. I don't understand why anyone would "bash" a recovery program, or why people refer to different methods as "competitors". What works for some may not work for all. We all have to find our own way.
Everyones journey is very personal and whatever someone does to stay sober is okay in my books!
Faith and reason
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: London
Posts: 941
Originally Posted by tommyjp
fair enough. I just wish I'd had a more balanced view of AA from people with experience before I looked into it. I ended up believing there must be something wrong with my thinking (stinking thinking) since nobody dared to contradict it and nearly everything you hear is positive.
Mini Novel Post Writer
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Maine
Posts: 3,649
I'm in AA and working the steps and it's working for me and I'm ecstatic about the program. However, I support anyone's right to choose what program works best for them and applaud that success. Recovery programs are not one size fits all.
In my three prior attempts to get sober I did plenty of research and have done AA before, RR before (SMART), and went to counseling. In each instance I heard what I wanted to hear and interpreted things in the way that I wanted to interpret them.
What I found was regardless of what anyone told me or what I heard NO program was going to work for me until I was ready for it to work. That is the key.
In my three prior attempts to get sober I did plenty of research and have done AA before, RR before (SMART), and went to counseling. In each instance I heard what I wanted to hear and interpreted things in the way that I wanted to interpret them.
What I found was regardless of what anyone told me or what I heard NO program was going to work for me until I was ready for it to work. That is the key.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: london
Posts: 4
"What I found was regardless of what anyone told me or what I heard NO program was going to work for me until I was ready for it to work. That is the key."
this is kind of what I was getting from AA - "it works if you work it etc.." in other words if it's not working it's your fault because your not working it/ready/trying hard enough/want it enough. this just made me more down on myself. I went to many meetings all over UK and it was the same sentiment.
this is kind of what I was getting from AA - "it works if you work it etc.." in other words if it's not working it's your fault because your not working it/ready/trying hard enough/want it enough. this just made me more down on myself. I went to many meetings all over UK and it was the same sentiment.
Re-Member
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado
Posts: 7,583
Tommy,
We have all quit here. Some for good, some just starting and unsure. Others just relapse over and over. This is a reflection that they have not hit their personal bottom. Or put another way, are not down on themselves enough perhaps, to give it up, by giving that up. Whether the BB of AA, the RR book, or even the Bible, book thumpers with an agenda can be tedious at best. Regardless of the book or method, the goal is for you, when no one is looking, to not pick up. All by yourself. Then when it feels tough we can share how we felt about it. And when you succeed we can celebrate you.
Groups may not work for you. No one can make you stop, or convince you to stop. That part IS entirely up to you. We can be there for you. Once YOU are there for you.
We have all quit here. Some for good, some just starting and unsure. Others just relapse over and over. This is a reflection that they have not hit their personal bottom. Or put another way, are not down on themselves enough perhaps, to give it up, by giving that up. Whether the BB of AA, the RR book, or even the Bible, book thumpers with an agenda can be tedious at best. Regardless of the book or method, the goal is for you, when no one is looking, to not pick up. All by yourself. Then when it feels tough we can share how we felt about it. And when you succeed we can celebrate you.
Groups may not work for you. No one can make you stop, or convince you to stop. That part IS entirely up to you. We can be there for you. Once YOU are there for you.
Grateful to be free
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Arizona
Posts: 3,680
Observation in myself and from hanging around here a lot of years.
Sometimes people focus more on the program than on their recovery. Critique programs, praise programs, put their faith in programs, argue about programs, read about programs, wring their hands over the details of programs...all the while conveniently not actually doing what it takes to stay sober...they make it all about the program.
Do you want to get sober? for real? do you want to live sober? for real?
Are you willing to learn HOW to live sober no matter what? For real?
I really think that is the bottom line. Because no matter which program, or with no program at all...that's what we need to do. And there is no magic pill or power in any program that can do that for us. And we can chase our tails or yell at our neighbors about the merit or potholes of various programs...but what gets and keeps us sober is still the same. We want it, we commit to it and then we do what it takes to create a sober life.
What do I need to do and learn to live sober. That is what I need to focus on.
I have no idea what it takes for another person to accomplish that goal. I come here to listen and perhaps gather some ideas for myself. What I have learned about myself is that discussing programs is fun, but it's not what keeps me sober. And critiquing or running down other programs doesn't keep me sober. Talking up my program doesn't keep me sober.
Deciding to not drink no matter what and then putting my energy towards living sober is what keeps me sober.
You can get and live sober. I truly believe that. I'm glad you are here.
Sometimes people focus more on the program than on their recovery. Critique programs, praise programs, put their faith in programs, argue about programs, read about programs, wring their hands over the details of programs...all the while conveniently not actually doing what it takes to stay sober...they make it all about the program.
Do you want to get sober? for real? do you want to live sober? for real?
Are you willing to learn HOW to live sober no matter what? For real?
I really think that is the bottom line. Because no matter which program, or with no program at all...that's what we need to do. And there is no magic pill or power in any program that can do that for us. And we can chase our tails or yell at our neighbors about the merit or potholes of various programs...but what gets and keeps us sober is still the same. We want it, we commit to it and then we do what it takes to create a sober life.
What do I need to do and learn to live sober. That is what I need to focus on.
I have no idea what it takes for another person to accomplish that goal. I come here to listen and perhaps gather some ideas for myself. What I have learned about myself is that discussing programs is fun, but it's not what keeps me sober. And critiquing or running down other programs doesn't keep me sober. Talking up my program doesn't keep me sober.
Deciding to not drink no matter what and then putting my energy towards living sober is what keeps me sober.
You can get and live sober. I truly believe that. I'm glad you are here.
Self recovered Self discovered
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Toronto Canada
Posts: 5,148
Well said, Threshold. Sobriety for me required a huge initial investment. I gave everything I had, everything I was, to my commitment to change my life.
The investment started to pay off immediately, but that principal is still in the account.
It's been the best investment of my life.
The investment started to pay off immediately, but that principal is still in the account.
It's been the best investment of my life.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,777
Originally Posted by Threshold
Observation in myself and from hanging around here a lot of years.
Sometimes people focus more on the program than on their recovery. Critique programs, praise programs, put their faith in programs, argue about programs, read about programs, wring their hands over the details of programs...all the while conveniently not actually doing what it takes to stay sober...they make it all about the program.
Do you want to get sober? for real? do you want to live sober? for real?
Are you willing to learn HOW to live sober no matter what? For real?
I really think that is the bottom line. Because no matter which program, or with no program at all...that's what we need to do. And there is no magic pill or power in any program that can do that for us. And we can chase our tails or yell at our neighbors about the merit or potholes of various programs...but what gets and keeps us sober is still the same. We want it, we commit to it and then we do what it takes to create a sober life.
What do I need to do and learn to live sober. That is what I need to focus on.
I have no idea what it takes for another person to accomplish that goal. I come here to listen and perhaps gather some ideas for myself. What I have learned about myself is that discussing programs is fun, but it's not what keeps me sober. And critiquing or running down other programs doesn't keep me sober. Talking up my program doesn't keep me sober.
Deciding to not drink no matter what and then putting my energy towards living sober is what keeps me sober.
You can get and live sober. I truly believe that. I'm glad you are here.
Sometimes people focus more on the program than on their recovery. Critique programs, praise programs, put their faith in programs, argue about programs, read about programs, wring their hands over the details of programs...all the while conveniently not actually doing what it takes to stay sober...they make it all about the program.
Do you want to get sober? for real? do you want to live sober? for real?
Are you willing to learn HOW to live sober no matter what? For real?
I really think that is the bottom line. Because no matter which program, or with no program at all...that's what we need to do. And there is no magic pill or power in any program that can do that for us. And we can chase our tails or yell at our neighbors about the merit or potholes of various programs...but what gets and keeps us sober is still the same. We want it, we commit to it and then we do what it takes to create a sober life.
What do I need to do and learn to live sober. That is what I need to focus on.
I have no idea what it takes for another person to accomplish that goal. I come here to listen and perhaps gather some ideas for myself. What I have learned about myself is that discussing programs is fun, but it's not what keeps me sober. And critiquing or running down other programs doesn't keep me sober. Talking up my program doesn't keep me sober.
Deciding to not drink no matter what and then putting my energy towards living sober is what keeps me sober.
You can get and live sober. I truly believe that. I'm glad you are here.
@ Freshstart. Yes, Yes, yes! Very true. Give it everything you have. It has been working thus far.
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