TOPIC: POWERLESS - Are You Powerless? How Powerless Are you?
Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: www.ericwhitfieldart.com
Posts: 114
Originally Posted by GarryW 
I hear ya Slash,
And you are totally entitled to view powerlessness in any context you choose. I, on the other hand, chose to stay within the context of what powerlessness means in 12 Step teachings and/or recovery. I mean, we are still talking about the 1st Step here, aren't we? ("We admitted that we were powerless over our addiction, that our lives had become unmanageable.")
Any one of us can take a dictionary and pick or choose which definition supports our perspective, and most of us already know that terms like "powerless", "inventory" or "disease" in 12 Step teachings are understood differently by those of us involved in the steps than those who aren't. Just as there are those who would disagree with the disease concept of addiction as related to the 12 Steps, there are those who dispute the corresponding powerless concept.
I commend you for sticking by your guns, yet I also stick by mine. I didn't dispute you...just offered an opposing point of view (within context). Most of us who have been in recovery for some time understand that addiction can reveal itself in almost every area of our lives, and after we put the substance down we find that we are also powerless in a wide variety of areas. We also know that it's never a matter of strength, weakness, control, force or helplessness. It's really about acceptance, surrender, honesty, open-mindedness and humility.
For me, the Serenity Prayer ties into the understanding of powerlessness. We generally don't accept that we cannot control or change a situation until we've exhausted all attempts to control or change it. Through this experience, we learn what we cannot do and ultimately reach the wisdom to know the difference. I suggest that it isn't a lie to admit powerlessness in the 12 Step realm. Actually, it's an admirable trait.
And you are totally entitled to view powerlessness in any context you choose. I, on the other hand, chose to stay within the context of what powerlessness means in 12 Step teachings and/or recovery. I mean, we are still talking about the 1st Step here, aren't we? ("We admitted that we were powerless over our addiction, that our lives had become unmanageable.")
Any one of us can take a dictionary and pick or choose which definition supports our perspective, and most of us already know that terms like "powerless", "inventory" or "disease" in 12 Step teachings are understood differently by those of us involved in the steps than those who aren't. Just as there are those who would disagree with the disease concept of addiction as related to the 12 Steps, there are those who dispute the corresponding powerless concept.
I commend you for sticking by your guns, yet I also stick by mine. I didn't dispute you...just offered an opposing point of view (within context). Most of us who have been in recovery for some time understand that addiction can reveal itself in almost every area of our lives, and after we put the substance down we find that we are also powerless in a wide variety of areas. We also know that it's never a matter of strength, weakness, control, force or helplessness. It's really about acceptance, surrender, honesty, open-mindedness and humility.
For me, the Serenity Prayer ties into the understanding of powerlessness. We generally don't accept that we cannot control or change a situation until we've exhausted all attempts to control or change it. Through this experience, we learn what we cannot do and ultimately reach the wisdom to know the difference. I suggest that it isn't a lie to admit powerlessness in the 12 Step realm. Actually, it's an admirable trait.
As you pointed out, one could choose any definition in the dictionary to suit their perspective just as one could invent any definition or borrow one from a program or philosophy that fits their perspective. Also,
I actually quite admire your perspective -- truth is, I admire ANYONE and EVERYONE'S perspective as long as it works. Thanks for sharing, brother. Truly.
Last edited by slash; 09-10-2007 at 05:55 PM.
Evolving Addict
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: New York State
Posts: 3,067
Thanks for sharing Slash,
As I said, I didn't dispute you, nor did I take your words out of whack. I understand exactly what you're saying. We simply see it differently, and this I also mentioned:
I spoke for myself AND I spoke for many others that I know who agree that we have to accept our powerlessness in a variety of other areas besides our DOC -
This concept isn't new, nor is it one I created. It comes straight from the literature (I can give chapter & page #'s if you'd like). It's the fellowship who helped me to understand that recovery isn't a solo endeavor - although extremely personal (you know, I can't, WE can?). I guess that's one reason why all the steps in NA begin with "we." I hope you didn't get offended, but based on your perspective, I couldn't tell whether you were a newbie or not. My bad. That's what I get for jumping to conclusions!! (silly me) During the 9+ years I've been clean & recovering, I've met and had the priviledge to speak with so many people in recovery, and rarely have I met an oldtimer that shared your view.
I agree. There's no need to defend your point, but I assumed when you offered the dictionary definition...that, indeed was what you were doing. I also believe that whatever works is a plus.... and even if it doesn't work...
It's just another thing I'm powerless over.
Thanks again for sharing.
As I said, I didn't dispute you, nor did I take your words out of whack. I understand exactly what you're saying. We simply see it differently, and this I also mentioned:
In contrast to Slash, I'm powerless over WAY MORE things than I have power over, and my acceptance of this isn't self-defeating or negative. In fact, staying firmly rooted in reality is empowering, positive and humbling.
Most of us who have been in recovery for some time understand that addiction can reveal itself in almost every area of our lives, and after we put the substance down we find that we are also powerless in a wide variety of areas.
I agree. There's no need to defend your point, but I assumed when you offered the dictionary definition...that, indeed was what you were doing. I also believe that whatever works is a plus.... and even if it doesn't work...
It's just another thing I'm powerless over.
Thanks again for sharing.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: www.ericwhitfieldart.com
Posts: 114
Garry...it appears we agree on more than we disagree on. I agree that recovery is not a solo endeavor. It is indeed an individual and personal journey, but one I believe is most beneficial when executing with others. One of the many things I have learned from my years around AA is that my recovery is mine and yours is yours - that's what makes it so awesome. It's the diversity of approaches rooted in the common goal of recovery that makes it work, in my opinion. Another thing I have learned is that AA/NA SOS...etc - NOT synonymous with recovery. There are many vehicles and many different paths to take along the way through recovery, often times these variations exist within one particular self-help group such as AA or NA - I love that. There are no rules in AA (other than a desire to stop) which was also a selling point for me. Regarding the concept you referenced, I realize that you did not invent it, I am familiar with the literature so no page numbers will be necessary. And I do not take offense to your assumming I was a newbie - after all, often times newbie's have a healthier outlook than the rest of us! hahaha Seriously, I can understand your assumption based on my perspective especially given the way you embrace the 12 step philosophies with such passion (that is a compliment...I am not bashing) - I understand that one would automatically default to "step 1 mode" when hearing the word powerless. And speaking of such, you asked earlier something to the effect of we are talking about step 1 aren't we? - I was not. The original post by Sharon made no mention of step 1. It did, however ask the question "Are you powerless?" My answer -- absolutely not. Regarding step 1 -- Am I powerless over alcohol/my addiction? HELL YES!! Also, upon reflection, I can see where my posting the definition could have been perceived as passive aggressive. This was not my intention and I apologize to anyone who took it that way. I was simply trying to clarify my earlier declaration that (based on that definition), to claim generic powerlessness would be an untruth. I must say, based on your personal perspective/definition Powerlessness means I have LESS power than I want to believe I have on most days - I agree with your views. Our difference lies in our different concept of "powerless" - it's semantics, man...together we are 20+years sober and we rock!
Oh, and the reason you haven't met many old timers who share my view is because it's MINE! HA! And I have not had the honor of sharing philosophies with them and exchanging views about the fact that there are not only an infinite number of answers...there are at least as many right answers as there are people. I am willing to bet that each of those old timers' views differ from one another - that's exactly what makes it work! Folks like you and me having an honest exchange of opinions and personal truths that have kept us sober and happy. That said, I have really enjoyed our little back and forth, brother. Thanks.
Oh, and the reason you haven't met many old timers who share my view is because it's MINE! HA! And I have not had the honor of sharing philosophies with them and exchanging views about the fact that there are not only an infinite number of answers...there are at least as many right answers as there are people. I am willing to bet that each of those old timers' views differ from one another - that's exactly what makes it work! Folks like you and me having an honest exchange of opinions and personal truths that have kept us sober and happy. That said, I have really enjoyed our little back and forth, brother. Thanks.
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