AAFreeportPA

I would have to disagree on the "recovery program" mandate. If one is having problems or is feeling guilty about their vice of choice they can just abstain and not have to worry about the bad consequences of their vice.

In other words, the majority of people quit without making a big deal of it. They quit, take the moral hit and recognizing that healthy appetite for pleasure as something to not be acted upon, best laughed at and ignored.

So I'll let my secret out of the bag on how I make abstinence work: I don't do the One Day At A Time thing regarding those problematic vices. I'm not stupid for I know where that drink or smoke leads so I've resolved to NEVER drink again for the rest of my lifetime. Drinking is a deliberate choice that doesn't reflect who I am and turns me into an immoral non-thinking scumbag who may place society and my own life at risk. So I never do it.

I view the goal of moderation for those who have a history of placing society at risk due to their vice of choice is as worthless as the withdrawal method of contraception: Some people just like it too much to the point that they don't pull out at that enjoyable point of climax. So I naturally don't recommend it for those select few. An admission of wanting to moderate is simply a telltale admission that they can't handle that vice of choice responsibly.

Yours in Recovery, Mark B.

Jersey Nonny

Glass Prisoner said it all, short and sweet, and I couldn't agree more.

Quote:

Ummm....there's your answer right there. If it worked, you'd still be sober.

Stopping drinking is relatively easy, even with the nasty de-tox(es) I experienced. The hard part is staying stopped. The only thing I found that worked for me was AA.

Being a little bit sober is like being a little bit pregnant! The idea is to quit drinking one day at a time...not to drink one day at a time. I knew how to stop...I did it hundreds of times over 32 years...but, I never learned how to stay stopped, until I went to AA...that was over 27 years ago.

AAFreeportPA

I had to re-read your message and caught that zinger.

Who says that you have no choice but to drink a few? Everyone has that choice to drink or not to drink, to eat yummy BBQ or not to, to even attend or not. Are you afraid what others will think if they see something other than an alcoholic beverage in hand?

I'll give you a hint: Screw 'em. You can't save your face and your ass at the same time.

I'm a nice guy so imagine me dropping a business card with my contact information at your feet. Are you going to try to pick it up or are you going to cowboy up and just do it?

Life is a series of choices. Anyone can choose to quit hurting themselves for the rest of their lives, for one LIFETIME at a time, starting right now.

Yours in Recovery, Mark B.

Zanthos

I think I understand what you're saying. My post was informed by my own narrow perspective as a life long alcoholic drinker for whom the AA program of recovery now fits like a glove.

While I personally avoid "selling" or "pushing" AA, I find I'm capable of and interested in relating only to others with the "disease of alcoholism" for whom AA is the most indicated prescription.

AAFreeportPA

I hope you're just being sarcastic. So I'll brush that aside, letting go and letting God. All I'm telling is how others get better and leave their addiction behind, no matter what. And I'll never recommend moderation to anyone who has a clear-cut history of problems caused by their vice of choice. Moderation is a crap shoot for such people so it's better not to risk it all by not playing at all.

Ultimately, no program works. It's the individual who can chose to, not to or never again engage in their problematic vice. It's ultimately the individual who has to break through the ambivalence of "I want to quit but I can't": Two distinct ideas where the former is freedom while the latter is slavery. And, ironically enough, the programs that focus upon "I can't" lead people away from quitting. It's as though there's an iatrogenic disorder being deliberately and methodically spread by such "helpers" within such programs.

So I'd rather place my faith in people to do the right thing and not programs. It's less dehumanizing that way and places all credit, good or bad, on the person who wants to quit. And it makes things so much more simpler in the long run.

If you want to drink then do so. If not then don't. That's all. And, if you choose to drink, don't do anything stupid that puts the lives of others at risk. Those who moderate successfully know this and can fully enjoy their vices without second thought for they take full responsibility over their choice to abstain or not and the consequences of that decision.

Anyways, I'm still a member of AA...but with a little trick to staying abstinent for life that I'm sure newcomers will thoroughly enjoy. The oldtimers know it, too, but couldn't fully articulate it without being cast out of the Fellowship. Why this is controversial boggles me.

Yours in Recovery, Mark B.

chicago

i kicked alcohol and heroin cold-turkey. i COULD NOT taper off. when i ingest alcohol i have an allergic reaction that triggers a phenomon of craving. its physically impossible for me to taper off. if you're drinking alot consult a doctor and he'll make sure you're detox is safe...typically with valium or something similar. alcoholics are all-or-nothing. give us a beer and its on. either you're sober or you're not.

Zanthos

OK, I was wrong. I have no idea what you're talking about. Looks like you're reading opposition and opportunity to argue where there is none.

Jules62

I think you came here looking for genuine help/advice-like we all do-and got a bit overwhelmed with some of the answers you got....

Please don't be put off by some of this-we all have different stories/agendas-but this community is so loving overall-and I'm so grateful for so many of the people here....

I'll just say this-moderation is a great concept-I tried it-it didn't work for me.BUT-I will never tell you do what I did-and I will never tell you to go to A.A unless you decide that is what would be the best thing for YOU.

If you think this(tappering off) will work for you-then I wish you the best-honestly.Wish I could have done it-seriously.I just know I can't/couldn't.

All I can tell you is this-I am powerless over alcohol-I tried everything-cutting back, drinking one day out of 5(spent the other 4 obsessing about day 5-lol) etc.

Nothing worked for me but quitting.And I've relapsed twice since then-I'm new to this- relatively speaking.But-I completely respect your right to choose your path-and would never inflict 'my way' on you as a cure.There isn't a cure really.Look around you here-we are all working towards a life without this killing us-or hurting those around us.

We may never be 'fixed'-but who in life is?We're all just trying to be whole.

I hope you find your path too.Good luck-and keep posting here.We do care.

Jules xox

CarolD

Hi Carlos...
I wish you well on your journey
to sobriety...

Blessings

Dee74

Nice post Jules.

I think that's it...we're all trying to be whole. Nicely put.
Just find a way that works, whatever it be, and run it.
D

ps love the avatar - Grover's arms always crack me up !

Macphisto

Thanks for all the great posts.. I'm probably not 100% dedicated to sobriety and that is why I keep failing.. that is why I use the whole tappering thing and "friends comming over" and it's Friday, etc... The truth is that I know I should stop for many reasons.. I have not gotton into any trouble with the law and even though I have family issues I don't think they are alchohol related.. The issues are there even when I'm sober.

I'm not knocking AA at all as I see how much good it has done. right now i just can't make meetings because of work and family obligations. I also didn't feel like I belonged when I went. Not because "I felt like I was with a bunch of drunks" or anything like that.. I just don't like that whole holding hands "admitting you're powerless" bull.. I don't feel powerless, I know people who have decided to stop drugs and/or alchohol and never set foot in AA or other programs and they seem to be successfull..

Another thing is that I mostly don't hate the morning after I drink too much unless it's been a heavy drinking previous night.

I do know I need to stop though, I just wish I could 100% convince myself of that. I always seem to leave just enough doubt as to be able to justify drinking when "an occasion" pops up..

Don't know, Today is day one again and I'm going to test myself for 6 months and see what happens.. although I an going on vacation in a few weeks and just absolutely can't imagin having fun at nightclubs, bars, etc without booze.. No way out of it either, we're going with friends and it's a given that there will be booze there.

sometimes it just feels like futile attemps.. there is always going to be an excuse

One thing I do know is that I will loose everythig including my life if I continue.. I have seen things getting gradually worse over the years.. I wish to someday find the hope and strengh.

Thanks all..

Anna

You're very right. Alcoholism is a progressive disease. It will continue to get worse unless you stop drinking. That's inevitable.

Also, you're right in that there's never a good time. There never will be a perfect time for quitting drinking. And, I think until I made it number one priority in my life to stop drinking, I was able to find excuses to put it off.

I hope your 6 month exper4iment goes well!

Dee74

I wish you welll, MacP !
D