In or around Recovery?
Mark B. - Teetotaler |R|
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Freeport Pennsylvania
Posts: 443
Originally Posted by AllaFlutter 
Being in the presious precious present is an awesome expoereince...Don't miss it by projecting ouit too far in the futhere or be clouded by fears...She is not the person that hurt you...be sure you see her for who she is...not the person in your past and in your fears
It's odd. I've never made plans before. Now that I'm Sober I really want to see and experience as much life as possible If that means without any intimate relationship then that's okay too. And that's just me: Wanting to have it all. But gee I'm not getting any younger.
While I am slightly disappointed at her choice I realize that this may not have been the right time for her. She may turn around or she may not. I'm powerless over that and I could never be angry with her. So I'm neither hurt nor bitter about it.
Anyhow, I got a surprise phone call from my ride/sponsor-to-be tonight. He called and said that he was going to a meeting and that he'd pick me up in about ten minutes. I was in the middle of something else but when someone gives you a call like I have to suit up and be there.
It was another interesting speaker meeting that really put things into perspective and, in a way, bookended my wilderness exploration outside of Recovery. The speaker was a regular from my old home group. To see and hear him was more than just a pleasant surprise. It was as if I was fitting back in and finding a familiar face among others. And my loneliness went away.
I got a couple more numbers and I'm slowly rebuilding my network of support. My cell phone comes in handy for any Recovery-related communication. I can be anywhere when that call arrives. When I was an active drunk I regarded cell phones as electronic leashes. Well, this old dog sees that cell phone as a lifeline now.
Afterwards, my ride/sponsor-to-be got a great seat to watch the fireworks in Ford City, PA. We had a great seat as he was getting distracted by them while driving. We pulled over as close under the fireworks as possible and watched the show.
I regret that I forgot to bring my camera. It was a killer show.
So it was a very good night for me just to get out there back into the fray. I've met a few new people and I've learned that more people have it worse off than me. Every Day is a gift and I treat every Day with as much care as possible.
And the fireworks were awesome.
This was a night in which I felt more alive. And I'm glad I can live that life. It's a simple pleasure which I realize matters the most.
Yours in Recovery, Mark B.
Mark B. - Teetotaler |R|
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Freeport Pennsylvania
Posts: 443
As I wind down another Day I've been pondering procrastination: The one thing which keeps most from breaking away from addiction once and for all.
As much as I'm an AA I'm also one who would rather question accepted dogma where applicable. Not for the sake of me being rebellious or playing devil's advocate. It's just a thing I do to test reality to understand it better.
I've said this numerous times and it's so true: When it comes down to that fix of whatever vice a current addict craves (alcohol, pot, coke, sex, a throw of the dice, etc.) it's the user who is in full control of their actions. When it comes down to that desire to fix the addict has only two choices: To use or not to use.
Notice how that's so stripped down to its essence: A simple choice. And I'm sure I'll get a PM or two saying, "But that's too simplistic! And aren't you an AA? What about addictive disease and alcoholism?"
I don't get that reaction often since I rarely if ever have brought this up. So let's play the "what if": What if there is such a thing as addictive disease or alcoholism?
If a person wants to recover and get better and if they are suffering from this disease then, automatically, it throws this into a moral light: Is it right for them to poison themselves further?
Aha! Notice how that is totally subjective on another's point of view. Who says that person is poisoning themselves? Could it be the opposite, that the person genuinely likes that fix? And, if one values freedom for others and themselves, if that person takes their fix and doesn't harm anyone else but themselves, should an intervention be called?
And, dare I ask a very important question concerning freedom and liberty itself: Isn't every single human being blessed with the inalienable right to pursue life, liberty and happiness no matter how countercultural it may be?
And there's the boundary: The price of liberty for all includes the right of someone to do things that may harm themselves. Risk, just as much as uncertainty, is a fact of life. As long as their actions do not harm another nonconsenting person's body or property should that even be considered a crime. It's not a crime when the user takes that risk. It is a crime when someone else gets hurt.
Taken to its logical conclusion pleasure is pathologized.
I've noticed that people get far too emotionally involved when another person fixes. With that scenario in mind could it be that the recovering person be possibly be harboring envy or even jealously? Or maybe that person needs to learn to back off a little and respect the rights of others to do as they please with their own bodies?
As painful as that sounds and as terse I have that worded, addiction isn't pretty. It can be downright offensive to those who are currently uncomfortable around other peoples' fixes. But it's not a crime when one is emotionally offended and not directly physically harmed. However, engaging in pleasurable activity that may offend others is NOT addiction.
So what is the gold standard definition of addiction? Through my own experience I saw that one clearcut sign that is simple to spot, easy to self-diagnose and easy to break through once one knows what their dealing with. It's as simple as identifying one thought: "I want to quit but I can't."
That thought says it all and is the telltale sign of addiction: Ambivalence. Two completely opposite thoughts towards that problematic vice of choice. People who aren't addicted don't have that thought. They enjoy their vices fully without literally having that second thought of quitting.
When one has that one thought then the question is: Will the person win or will their desire for pleasure, mistaken for addictive disease, win? And time after time I've noticed how people are led away from their own authentic self ("I want to quit") and are deliberately led astray into something else entirely ("I can't"). The irony is that the disease theory of addiction sets that person up and away from quitting and becomes the biggest excuse to procrastinate regarding that big decision to quit.
Couple that with an always-Recovering population of alcoholics and addicts and you have a system destined to fail in that one thing that person entering that subculture wanted to do: To quit.
Thus my surprise that the more I've paid attention the more I realized the truth: Recovery is nothing more that raw, unbridled procrastination. The truth is that when one quits once and for all then there's no need to discover the nuts and bolts of what Recovery seems to be or should be. That person is recovered and can do whatever they like without the fear of picking up again.
And that's what quitting is: Simply never engaging in that vice ever again for the rest of one's life.
I thought about my own former nicotine habit which I ended on my own about a decade and a few years ago. I was a very hard case: I smoked and even chewed tobacco. I literally had something in my mouth every waking moment (yes, even at work).
But one day I woke up and, for one reason or another, was curious about the money changing hands via tobacco PACs. When I saw who benefitted politically from that legalized bribery I realized how wrong it was to ever put nicotine in my body ever again. And that's when I had my final fix.
For a week I struggled. But then, a coupled days into that week, I realized something about myself that I never really paid any attention to: It wasn't me struggling against nicotine addiction. It was my desire for nicotine pleasure struggling against my own moral judgment. And that desire had no power on its own to move my arms, much less my entire body, towards that vice. It was powerless under me, the quitter.
Near the end of the week, what seemed like a very painful struggle at first immediately faded into pure laughter when I knew my addiction was over. I literally saw the nature of the beast and had a hearty laugh.
No pills. No doctors. No therapy. No tapes. No bull. An addiction described as being similar or worse than heroin addiction I broke on my own through a quaint procedure known as "Cold Turkey".
It's also known by a far more quainter term which is rarely used anymore: Quitting.
Naturally, my health improved and I could breathe and taste things better. Of course, when I wasn't poisoning myself with that vice of course I would get better. The irony is that it's so obvious. It's like when you keep pounding your head against the wall and complain about headaches. Then you stop headbutting walls for awhile. Of course! Duh!
Until a few years ago, I also used to be a cutter. Yes, I used to physically mutilate myself. What clued me in on the cure for my cutting was a Shirley Manson song. And I thought, "Yeah, ironically enough, when I cut I did find relief." And relief = pleasure. And I had second thoughts on quitting cutting more that once while I was a cutter, thus I was addicted to that vice.
So, I did that one thing which, again, seemed so radical: I quit.
What's ironic is that that same passion for pleasure didn't like the idea of me never cutting again. So, just like how I quit smoking it reared its ugly head again and I literally felt as thought I had the flu for the first couple of days. And, just as fast as I had my breakthrough after quitting smoking, I wound up laughing even harder at that desire for that vice of cutting.
That's when I saw that pattern for quitting right there. And I became enlightened.
So now, why not for drinking or drugging? Don't people quit drinking or drugging all the time? While I was in the wilderness I can say something about that: "Yes. The majority of people do quit on their own." And, if one really thinks about it, ALL people quit on their own. After all it is their two hands, the very tools for obtaining and consummating with that fix, which they are in control of at all times.
Thus, every single person is responsible for their own actions. That's an idea which meshed well with my own idea for fairness and equality for all humankind.
So I'll have to break a little news: On October 25, 2003 I nearly died as a result of my alcohol addiction. Coming that close to death I made that moral choice: That I'd never place any alcohol into my body ever again. Not for one day at a time.
For one LIFETIME at a time.
After all, while I don't have much in the way of a life I do have a life nonetheless. And the best way for me to live it is without blunting my senses and my sense of right or wrong with that initially cheap fix.
Anyone can quit right here and right now, ending that One Day At A Time procrastination and call it quits by making that decision. After that they can live their life in any way shape or form as someone who doesn't engage in whatever vice that caused them problems to begin with.
And if I can do it then anyone else can as well.
As for my affiliation with AA I've mentioned within a previous post that I may be breaking away from the Fellowship. Not for the sake of becoming a bleeding deacon but that self-knowledge I possess can help others who are suffering from addiction. It's more of a break with some of the ideology that fosters that "I can't" attitude.
And, just as a robber robs banks just because that's where the money is, I attend meetings to find new people who want to quit and let them know some interesting facts that can help them to simply break free from addiction. A lot of what I have to offer is very simple common sense. And we do want to keep it simple, don't we?
My gift is that I can write well. It's through my writing I can gain a better understanding of the world. I hope my gift offers better understanding for all.
Yours in Recovery, Mark B.
As much as I'm an AA I'm also one who would rather question accepted dogma where applicable. Not for the sake of me being rebellious or playing devil's advocate. It's just a thing I do to test reality to understand it better.
I've said this numerous times and it's so true: When it comes down to that fix of whatever vice a current addict craves (alcohol, pot, coke, sex, a throw of the dice, etc.) it's the user who is in full control of their actions. When it comes down to that desire to fix the addict has only two choices: To use or not to use.
Notice how that's so stripped down to its essence: A simple choice. And I'm sure I'll get a PM or two saying, "But that's too simplistic! And aren't you an AA? What about addictive disease and alcoholism?"
I don't get that reaction often since I rarely if ever have brought this up. So let's play the "what if": What if there is such a thing as addictive disease or alcoholism?
If a person wants to recover and get better and if they are suffering from this disease then, automatically, it throws this into a moral light: Is it right for them to poison themselves further?
Aha! Notice how that is totally subjective on another's point of view. Who says that person is poisoning themselves? Could it be the opposite, that the person genuinely likes that fix? And, if one values freedom for others and themselves, if that person takes their fix and doesn't harm anyone else but themselves, should an intervention be called?
And, dare I ask a very important question concerning freedom and liberty itself: Isn't every single human being blessed with the inalienable right to pursue life, liberty and happiness no matter how countercultural it may be?
And there's the boundary: The price of liberty for all includes the right of someone to do things that may harm themselves. Risk, just as much as uncertainty, is a fact of life. As long as their actions do not harm another nonconsenting person's body or property should that even be considered a crime. It's not a crime when the user takes that risk. It is a crime when someone else gets hurt.
Taken to its logical conclusion pleasure is pathologized.
I've noticed that people get far too emotionally involved when another person fixes. With that scenario in mind could it be that the recovering person be possibly be harboring envy or even jealously? Or maybe that person needs to learn to back off a little and respect the rights of others to do as they please with their own bodies?
As painful as that sounds and as terse I have that worded, addiction isn't pretty. It can be downright offensive to those who are currently uncomfortable around other peoples' fixes. But it's not a crime when one is emotionally offended and not directly physically harmed. However, engaging in pleasurable activity that may offend others is NOT addiction.
So what is the gold standard definition of addiction? Through my own experience I saw that one clearcut sign that is simple to spot, easy to self-diagnose and easy to break through once one knows what their dealing with. It's as simple as identifying one thought: "I want to quit but I can't."
That thought says it all and is the telltale sign of addiction: Ambivalence. Two completely opposite thoughts towards that problematic vice of choice. People who aren't addicted don't have that thought. They enjoy their vices fully without literally having that second thought of quitting.
When one has that one thought then the question is: Will the person win or will their desire for pleasure, mistaken for addictive disease, win? And time after time I've noticed how people are led away from their own authentic self ("I want to quit") and are deliberately led astray into something else entirely ("I can't"). The irony is that the disease theory of addiction sets that person up and away from quitting and becomes the biggest excuse to procrastinate regarding that big decision to quit.
Couple that with an always-Recovering population of alcoholics and addicts and you have a system destined to fail in that one thing that person entering that subculture wanted to do: To quit.
Thus my surprise that the more I've paid attention the more I realized the truth: Recovery is nothing more that raw, unbridled procrastination. The truth is that when one quits once and for all then there's no need to discover the nuts and bolts of what Recovery seems to be or should be. That person is recovered and can do whatever they like without the fear of picking up again.
And that's what quitting is: Simply never engaging in that vice ever again for the rest of one's life.
I thought about my own former nicotine habit which I ended on my own about a decade and a few years ago. I was a very hard case: I smoked and even chewed tobacco. I literally had something in my mouth every waking moment (yes, even at work).
But one day I woke up and, for one reason or another, was curious about the money changing hands via tobacco PACs. When I saw who benefitted politically from that legalized bribery I realized how wrong it was to ever put nicotine in my body ever again. And that's when I had my final fix.
For a week I struggled. But then, a coupled days into that week, I realized something about myself that I never really paid any attention to: It wasn't me struggling against nicotine addiction. It was my desire for nicotine pleasure struggling against my own moral judgment. And that desire had no power on its own to move my arms, much less my entire body, towards that vice. It was powerless under me, the quitter.
Near the end of the week, what seemed like a very painful struggle at first immediately faded into pure laughter when I knew my addiction was over. I literally saw the nature of the beast and had a hearty laugh.
No pills. No doctors. No therapy. No tapes. No bull. An addiction described as being similar or worse than heroin addiction I broke on my own through a quaint procedure known as "Cold Turkey".
It's also known by a far more quainter term which is rarely used anymore: Quitting.
Naturally, my health improved and I could breathe and taste things better. Of course, when I wasn't poisoning myself with that vice of course I would get better. The irony is that it's so obvious. It's like when you keep pounding your head against the wall and complain about headaches. Then you stop headbutting walls for awhile. Of course! Duh!
Until a few years ago, I also used to be a cutter. Yes, I used to physically mutilate myself. What clued me in on the cure for my cutting was a Shirley Manson song. And I thought, "Yeah, ironically enough, when I cut I did find relief." And relief = pleasure. And I had second thoughts on quitting cutting more that once while I was a cutter, thus I was addicted to that vice.
So, I did that one thing which, again, seemed so radical: I quit.
What's ironic is that that same passion for pleasure didn't like the idea of me never cutting again. So, just like how I quit smoking it reared its ugly head again and I literally felt as thought I had the flu for the first couple of days. And, just as fast as I had my breakthrough after quitting smoking, I wound up laughing even harder at that desire for that vice of cutting.
That's when I saw that pattern for quitting right there. And I became enlightened.
So now, why not for drinking or drugging? Don't people quit drinking or drugging all the time? While I was in the wilderness I can say something about that: "Yes. The majority of people do quit on their own." And, if one really thinks about it, ALL people quit on their own. After all it is their two hands, the very tools for obtaining and consummating with that fix, which they are in control of at all times.
Thus, every single person is responsible for their own actions. That's an idea which meshed well with my own idea for fairness and equality for all humankind.
So I'll have to break a little news: On October 25, 2003 I nearly died as a result of my alcohol addiction. Coming that close to death I made that moral choice: That I'd never place any alcohol into my body ever again. Not for one day at a time.
For one LIFETIME at a time.
After all, while I don't have much in the way of a life I do have a life nonetheless. And the best way for me to live it is without blunting my senses and my sense of right or wrong with that initially cheap fix.
Anyone can quit right here and right now, ending that One Day At A Time procrastination and call it quits by making that decision. After that they can live their life in any way shape or form as someone who doesn't engage in whatever vice that caused them problems to begin with.
And if I can do it then anyone else can as well.
As for my affiliation with AA I've mentioned within a previous post that I may be breaking away from the Fellowship. Not for the sake of becoming a bleeding deacon but that self-knowledge I possess can help others who are suffering from addiction. It's more of a break with some of the ideology that fosters that "I can't" attitude.
And, just as a robber robs banks just because that's where the money is, I attend meetings to find new people who want to quit and let them know some interesting facts that can help them to simply break free from addiction. A lot of what I have to offer is very simple common sense. And we do want to keep it simple, don't we?
My gift is that I can write well. It's through my writing I can gain a better understanding of the world. I hope my gift offers better understanding for all.
Yours in Recovery, Mark B.
Mark B. - Teetotaler |R|
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Freeport Pennsylvania
Posts: 443
Last time that I've logged into SR I was coming to the crossroads of my life. In particular I was finding myself slightly burnt out from my participation in AA. So I figure this happened around the beginning of July.
The moment occurred when I found myself waking up one morning and contemplating the future. I was realizing how empty my life was and just felt with a sense of tragic lonliness, "Is this all there is?" While I stand behind every word I have written here prior to my brief hiatus from SR I also realize that some of it was tinged with that sense of feeling as though for once I was truly alone in the world, as if I may never truly be understood for what I write and dodging misconceptions or what I may have been thinking outside the thoughts I penned.
And, the next day as I went into my work routine my boss fell ill as the result of complications from 17 gallstones lodging in her pancreas.
It was once i heard the news of my boss's illness that I realized how short life can be and how any of us can be sidelined immediately. It was at that moment I realized how precious life is and how every day is indeed a gift.
With that zest for life in mind I took a chance at the AA cookout in my area. I wound up with a crush on a woman there and found within me the courage for once in my life to talk with her and get to know her better. I didn't have that planned, of course. I went to the cookout simply to help support others in their festivities and Recoveries.
It's strange how these relationships begin. I never asked anyone out in my life so this was a first for me. But when I saw her it was as if I heard a voice said to me, "Talk to her." Little did I know where that advice which came from nowhere would lead to. But, in the days that have followed, I have shared more of my most intimate secrets with her just as she did the same with me.
Anyhow, my boss is back at work a little emaciated and pale from lack of nutrients and slight iron deficiency. But she's getting back into the swing of things and is proud of us in the department for keeping things running smoothly.
If anything, I've also learned the value of honesty as well. I can be quite tactless but now I'm tempering my truthfulness with a little bit of forethought as well. Considering the relationship with my new girlfriend I want to be as open as possible and treating her with as much respect, love and candor that I myself would expect as well. I can not lie to her or even say a bad thing about her. She is someone who compliments me in ways I never thought of before.
If anything, last July was a turning point of sorts. And despite the risks I have taken they have paid off handsomely. I'm certainly not afraid of the future now simply because uncertainty is the spice of life itself. And wherever happens happens. Things may happen for a reason or not but that's life. And I'm just so happy to be alive Today to enjoy every waking moment of it.
Yours in Recovery, Mark B.
The moment occurred when I found myself waking up one morning and contemplating the future. I was realizing how empty my life was and just felt with a sense of tragic lonliness, "Is this all there is?" While I stand behind every word I have written here prior to my brief hiatus from SR I also realize that some of it was tinged with that sense of feeling as though for once I was truly alone in the world, as if I may never truly be understood for what I write and dodging misconceptions or what I may have been thinking outside the thoughts I penned.
And, the next day as I went into my work routine my boss fell ill as the result of complications from 17 gallstones lodging in her pancreas.
It was once i heard the news of my boss's illness that I realized how short life can be and how any of us can be sidelined immediately. It was at that moment I realized how precious life is and how every day is indeed a gift.
With that zest for life in mind I took a chance at the AA cookout in my area. I wound up with a crush on a woman there and found within me the courage for once in my life to talk with her and get to know her better. I didn't have that planned, of course. I went to the cookout simply to help support others in their festivities and Recoveries.
It's strange how these relationships begin. I never asked anyone out in my life so this was a first for me. But when I saw her it was as if I heard a voice said to me, "Talk to her." Little did I know where that advice which came from nowhere would lead to. But, in the days that have followed, I have shared more of my most intimate secrets with her just as she did the same with me.
Anyhow, my boss is back at work a little emaciated and pale from lack of nutrients and slight iron deficiency. But she's getting back into the swing of things and is proud of us in the department for keeping things running smoothly.
If anything, I've also learned the value of honesty as well. I can be quite tactless but now I'm tempering my truthfulness with a little bit of forethought as well. Considering the relationship with my new girlfriend I want to be as open as possible and treating her with as much respect, love and candor that I myself would expect as well. I can not lie to her or even say a bad thing about her. She is someone who compliments me in ways I never thought of before.
If anything, last July was a turning point of sorts. And despite the risks I have taken they have paid off handsomely. I'm certainly not afraid of the future now simply because uncertainty is the spice of life itself. And wherever happens happens. Things may happen for a reason or not but that's life. And I'm just so happy to be alive Today to enjoy every waking moment of it.
Yours in Recovery, Mark B.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Fluttering About
Posts: 3,760
Originally Posted by AAFreeportPA
If anything, I've also learned the value of honesty as well. ...and treating her with as much respect, love and candor that I myself would expect as well. I can not lie to her or even say a bad thing about her. She is someone who compliments me in ways I never thought of before.
If anything, last July was a turning point of sorts. And despite the risks I have taken they have paid off handsomely. I'm certainly not afraid of the future now simply because uncertainty is the spice of life itself. And wherever happens happens. Things may happen for a reason or not but that's life. And I'm just so happy to be alive Today to enjoy every waking moment of it.
Yours in Recovery, Mark B.
Thank You for sharing that, Mark.
Something I heard thast has always impacted me is "honesty without love is brutality"
This means I do not beat myself up with brutal honesty..I get to learn gentleness with myself..then I am nore able to be honest with others in a loving caring gentle way.
When I cleaned the windows of the walls that had been around me..I was able to allow others to see me...and I was able to see them with a different perspective..
All thanks to this program of recovery
Mark B. - Teetotaler |R|
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Freeport Pennsylvania
Posts: 443
Originally Posted by AllaFlutter
Something I heard thast has always impacted me is "honesty without love is brutality"
This means I do not beat myself up with brutal honesty..I get to learn gentleness with myself..then I am nore able to be honest with others in a loving caring gentle way.
This means I do not beat myself up with brutal honesty..I get to learn gentleness with myself..then I am nore able to be honest with others in a loving caring gentle way.
In this case, it is possible to be too honest and wind up alienating others. It's where that line between feedback and criticism often gets crossed to the point that relationships are actually harmed or the wrong impressions are left. So helps to think things through first before engaging further. It seems difficult at first but one quickly learns to make that a part of their own personality so that it becomes second nature.
For myself I can be a very impulsive person. While there are moments where I know exactly what I want quite often the shortest route in that pursuit can be the most treacherous. Sure, it can build immediate character but why rush it? Sometimes in that heat of the moment one loses sight of the other important things in life as well.
Sometimes it helps to take the longer path and enjoy the scenery along the way. Who knows? Sometimes one may find a side-quest or something else of interest to make that single journey all the more fulfilling in the long run.
Compared to how I was in the past when I was a very wet and ugly drunk (an Alcoholic in his cups is an unlovely creature, and I pretty much fit that description), I have found that since becoming Sober I never really had an unkind word to say about anyone. For I'm sure that if I were to point a finger then three would immediately point right back at myself. So I simply choose to treat others with as much respect and, hopefully, have some given back in kind.
Not that I deserve it. It's just how I am within this omnipresent Now.
Yours in Recovery, Mark B.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,299
Originally Posted by AAFreeportPA
I have found that since becoming Sober I never really had an unkind word to say about anyone.
Jules.
Mark B. - Teetotaler |R|
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Freeport Pennsylvania
Posts: 443
Originally Posted by Jules62
I'm sorry-but I beg to differ.The last time you were here at SR, you left after calling us neurotic flotsam and jetsom and said you were off to a 'better world', whatever that is.
I was being very general at the time and didn't direct that at anyone in particular. You've read into that in the hope of finding something that didn't exist. Hence is my concern for myself being misunderstood and was one of the contributing factors for me taking leave when I did. It's one thing to feel as though that there's a place filled with people that understand. It's quite another to feel as though something is getting lost in the translation. And, above anything else, I certainly don't want to jeopardize anyone else's Recovery.
I then realized that all I can do is just tell the truth regarding ESH (Higher Power willing, of course, to keep me courageous in doing so) and nothing more. Which is a reason why I've returned. I've honestly missed some of the people here and, for whatever may have been inferred in the heat of the moment, I'll apologize.
It's far too easy for those who get so worked up to find something when in fact it's just a lingering resentment looking for an vengeful outlet: A corroding thread which can fray apart the fragile warp and weave of the fabric of one's own Recovery. And it may initially feel good at first but causes quite a bit of harm to one's self and others in the long run. Many backsliders have felt that foolish pride in such a futile endeavor only to have themselves hit an even deeper bottom.
Anyhow, I forgive you for I can't bring myself to keep resentments. And I hope that others can understand that too for all I have are my own words here and nothing more in this forum. I have taken full responsibility for my moodiness at the time and have learned to work through it.
If anything, I hope others can learn both from our strengths and weaknesses. In the end, that's all we can do. We can only keep our own sides of the street clean.
With all the respect I can muster here I wish you well and will pray for you, Jules.
Yours in Recovery, Mark B.
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,442
you take the cake Mark.
I read your Bottoms post as well. I took it the same way that Jules did. I know a lot of other people did too.
Now we all may be wrong and you may be right...but I doubt it.
Maybe instead of telling others how they feel you need to go to the quiet place and take a good long hard look.
Inventory I believe it's called ?
D
I read your Bottoms post as well. I took it the same way that Jules did. I know a lot of other people did too.
Now we all may be wrong and you may be right...but I doubt it.
Maybe instead of telling others how they feel you need to go to the quiet place and take a good long hard look.
Inventory I believe it's called ?
D
not a greeter
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: padmasana
Posts: 13,927
The link to the thread:
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ml#post1404479
Highlight of your post:
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ml#post1404479
Highlight of your post:
Speaking of which, I'm not going to post much for awhile here. I'm socializing elsewhere with people who share common interests rather than common neuroses, hypochondrias and other flotsam and jetsam. Gotta go! I have a new world to explore!
Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,299
Thank you Dee and thank you GT for providing the quote and link.
I am not ashamed of what I posted, Mark and don't believe I misinterpreted anything.
I have no desire to engage you anymore though.
I wish you well in your recovery.
Jules.
I am not ashamed of what I posted, Mark and don't believe I misinterpreted anything.
I have no desire to engage you anymore though.
I wish you well in your recovery.
Jules.
Mark B. - Teetotaler |R|
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Freeport Pennsylvania
Posts: 443
Originally Posted by gypsy tears
The link to the thread:
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ml#post1404479
Highlight of your post:
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ml#post1404479
Highlight of your post:
Anyhow, that's the past which has passed. This too shall pass as well as a newfound strength is found.
Yours in Recovery, Mark B.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 12,136
I, too, was insulted, and it seems unlikely that so many of us 'misinterpreted' this.
That's the past which has passed? That's what you said? Hunh.
Mark, you're just another alkie, and although I may not like your approach, I sincerely wish you well in your recovery. We each deserve this.
Good luck, Mark.
That's the past which has passed? That's what you said? Hunh.
Mark, you're just another alkie, and although I may not like your approach, I sincerely wish you well in your recovery. We each deserve this.
Good luck, Mark.
not a greeter
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: padmasana
Posts: 13,927
Originally Posted by AAFreeportPA
(I should have used "spiritual wreckage" or something to that effect).
???
Mark B. - Teetotaler |R|
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Freeport Pennsylvania
Posts: 443
Originally Posted by gypsy tears
Does spiritual wreckage mean the same then as : I'm socializing elsewhere with people who share common interests rather than common neuroses, hypochondrias and other flotsam and jetsam.
Yours in Recovery, Mark B.
IO Storm
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Southern California
Posts: 18,436
MARK..
What you were saying then..is..you were led to socialize elsewhere with people who
share common interests rather than common neuroses, hypochondrias and other
spiritual wreckage....
Correct me if I am wrong..but by your not naming anyone you had a problem with
here..your generalization of the put down was taken by a lot us to (be)
personal derogatory remarks.
Come on Mark..I know you are not a bad guy..can you be real and admit that
was a h-- of a mean thing to say to us? What happened to HOW?
Honesty..Openess..and Willingness...
Take care to not delete the first concept ...
Love,
Sherry
What you were saying then..is..you were led to socialize elsewhere with people who
share common interests rather than common neuroses, hypochondrias and other
spiritual wreckage....
Correct me if I am wrong..but by your not naming anyone you had a problem with
here..your generalization of the put down was taken by a lot us to (be)
personal derogatory remarks.
Come on Mark..I know you are not a bad guy..can you be real and admit that
was a h-- of a mean thing to say to us? What happened to HOW?
Honesty..Openess..and Willingness...
Take care to not delete the first concept ...
Love,
Sherry
Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: anomaly
Posts: 2,180
mark, mark, mark,
I do understand you. After all, i am an alcoholic and have alki's traits.
I'm a legend in my own mind.
Borned in the backwoods too. I like to do the short forms. it's cut
and dry. It touches a lot of nerves with style.
But at least i'm a genius and can figure it out...after all I am an alcoholic.
it's hard to be humble when U de man.lol
i read courage mentioned in there somewhere. it's a learning curve...i guess.lol
I do understand you. After all, i am an alcoholic and have alki's traits.
I'm a legend in my own mind.
Borned in the backwoods too. I like to do the short forms. it's cut
and dry. It touches a lot of nerves with style.
But at least i'm a genius and can figure it out...after all I am an alcoholic.
it's hard to be humble when U de man.lol
i read courage mentioned in there somewhere. it's a learning curve...i guess.lol
Mark B. - Teetotaler |R|
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Freeport Pennsylvania
Posts: 443
Originally Posted by IO Storm
What you were saying then..is..you were led to socialize elsewhere with people who
share common interests rather than common neuroses, hypochondrias and other
spiritual wreckage....
Correct me if I am wrong..but by your not naming anyone you had a problem with
here..your generalization of the put down was taken by a lot us to (be)
personal derogatory remarks.
share common interests rather than common neuroses, hypochondrias and other
spiritual wreckage....
Correct me if I am wrong..but by your not naming anyone you had a problem with
here..your generalization of the put down was taken by a lot us to (be)
personal derogatory remarks.
I've already explained myself at length to the best of my abilities. And, if that can't be accepted while only lip service is given towards acceptance then I can forgive and let that go as well. Some need more than only one person can provide. Thus this is why this is a We program and not an I program.
Likewise, I have been honest with as much candor as possible. There's no ulterior motives. Nothing up my sleeves (well, aside from some burn scars on my left arm). I can only chalk it up to a limitation of this digital medium where face-to-face short of audio-enabled webcams just can be technically infeasible to many who are active in their addictions.
If anyone wishes to project their own lingering resentments upon myself then I can only let that go. Regarding my own Recovery, my Recovery comes first so I'm quite wary of slippery people, places and things. And, having been wrongly taken advantage of already a few years ago it's not hard to see how an addictive personality can manifest itself.
It's something that my sponsor and I talked about at length and I agree with him. It's so easy to isolate here and simply use it not just as an adjunct to The Program but as a way of exercising one's own personal demons instead of exorcising them. If such forums actually did work on their own then AA would have adopted them right from their own website as well. So I'm painfully aware of the limitations here.
Now, with that out of the way, why should I lie? It just wouldn't be spiritual in light of what happened in my life. And, if the way I'm handling this by going to meetings, talking with my sponsor and working a Good Program leaves a lot to be desired than others then that's not my problem. I only shoot for progress rather than perfection, just like anyone else. Besides, life is short enough. My life can and may end tomorrow which is why I focus upon Today now and not worry or harbor resentments about those other outside issues outside of my Recovery.
When anyone makes such unfounded inferences then they have much more deeply-rooted problems than me. I pray for them to seek knowledge for their Recovery rather than fuel for their resentments for I certainly wouldn't want them to wind up where I was.
I can learn from my mistakes. So can anyone else. Now is that dishonest?
Yours in Recovery, Mark B.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Fluttering About
Posts: 3,760
In recovery I make mistakes..I sometimes don't get it right..But just for today I will practice the code of love and tolerance.
Take care Mark...I wish you well as you continue to trudge this road of Happy Destiny.
Take care Mark...I wish you well as you continue to trudge this road of Happy Destiny.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 12,136
Many people use SR alone and are living sober, contented lives.
To suggest otherwise is your opinion only.
I have a lot to say, but it's just not worth it, Mark. It's frustrating to see people continue to reach out to you, and to see how you choose to interpret it. It's like you are speaking a different language, and I just don't understand it.
Good luck with your recovery, Mark.
To suggest otherwise is your opinion only.
I have a lot to say, but it's just not worth it, Mark. It's frustrating to see people continue to reach out to you, and to see how you choose to interpret it. It's like you are speaking a different language, and I just don't understand it.
Good luck with your recovery, Mark.
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