12 steps!!!
Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Baton Rouge, La.
Posts: 15,238
Hi Splithead....Sharon and alcoholic here...How r u doing today? I forgot to tell you the page number in ur BIG BOOK that explains the Steps to u...Beginning on pg. 58 ..Ch. 5 HOW IT WORKS.....I know for me i could not comprehend the Big Book for a long time and thus went to step and BB studies to learn with everyone else. That personal inventory when u get ready to do..its like going to confession...just telling someone else ur "sins" ..things uve done during ur drinking time that u may feel ashamed of...fear of...people uve resented....things that u r keeping bottle up inside of u that u dont want anyone else to know about.....once u release this heavy burden u have been carrying for so long then u will begin to heal and learn to stay sober.
I hope ur doing ok today....feel free to ask all the questions u want and people here willl try to answer them for u. Good Luck buddy.
I hope ur doing ok today....feel free to ask all the questions u want and people here willl try to answer them for u. Good Luck buddy.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: maumelle ar
Posts: 103
thanks sharon that means alot to me, and i started reading how it works today at my meeting. im ok for now. today was tough, but i didnt use so thats all that matters right now. thank you for being here. i read alot of your posts and your a great help to all of us. bless you!!! im so grateful there are folks like yourself.
Trying to do the right thing.
Join Date: May 2006
Location: London
Posts: 4,345
[FONT="Book Antiqua"][SIZE="5"]WTG on giving it all you got,...! Your doing Great.....
Taking on actually doing the writting of Step work is extremly hard n too do it alone,...well we all know that one ,...ehy...!
Yes,... Please you will NEED a sponser to advise you on the isssue's they bring up,...!
Start at step 1 n Think about 4 when you get there,...as Step 4,...is a Biggy n you'll defo need your sponser, to go tho them with you...!
Then you have to put it into daily practice,...another Massive thing...!
I must have taken me 4mths to finsish Step 4 the last time i did some of them...!
Get a sponser next meeting as your on a roll, so keep it rollin...
Taking on actually doing the writting of Step work is extremly hard n too do it alone,...well we all know that one ,...ehy...!
Yes,... Please you will NEED a sponser to advise you on the isssue's they bring up,...!
Start at step 1 n Think about 4 when you get there,...as Step 4,...is a Biggy n you'll defo need your sponser, to go tho them with you...!
Then you have to put it into daily practice,...another Massive thing...!
I must have taken me 4mths to finsish Step 4 the last time i did some of them...!
Get a sponser next meeting as your on a roll, so keep it rollin...
Om, Aum, Ohm...
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Punxsutawney/Pittsburgh
Posts: 4,797
I see two questions: Just what is a 4th step and why is it suggested I do it with a sponsor?
You've had a pretty good explanation, backed up by Big Book references, of the fourth step. It's not a list of "How I've screwed up everything I've touched." It's not proof that "everything in the universe is my fault." The fourth step inventory is a list of character traits that feed both negative and positive vibes into the universe (or however your spiritual beliefs have you think of it). It helps us see that we're not just an innocent victim of bad luck nor are we the muck in the pond that may as well just settle to the bottom and disappear from sight.
A sponsor has (hopefully!) been through the fourth step, helped by a sponsor, who was helped by a sponsor, all the way back to Bill & Dr. Bob (yes, they had sponsors -- Bill W.'s first sponsor was Ebby, and Dr. Bob's sponsor was Bill W.). My sponsor helped me to order my list. There were things I wanted to put on the deficit side that was my martyr complex coming out, trying to take responsibility for stuff that didn't belong to me! I had other traits I felt belonged on my "good" side, but after she walked me through it, my sponsor helped me to see that my "people pleasing" was in many cases an effort to manipulate and control.
As far as working with someone you don't know or trust, it's okay (and suggested in many circles) to listen and watch people you are considering to ask to sponsor you. Listen to what others say about the person as well. Does he speak of love, tolerance, acceptance, serenity? Does he "have what you want?" And does he seem to take those words and apply them to life outside the meetings? Does he practice what he preaches? Do other people you come to admire speak highly or lovingly of him? I'm not good with analogies, but I'll try: would you make an appointment with a doctor who's come highly recommended, has an observable good bedside manner, and who's been to medical school? We don't give competency tests in AA, so some of the selection has to be based on faith and gut instincts, but there are observable cues to help. And just like a doctor, if you don't like the one you choose, you can choose another. We don't sign sponsorship contracts.
Back to the fourth step -- if I hadn't completed it, marched on through the rest of them, and absorbed them into the grain of my life, I'd be drunk and probably dead by now. The fourth step helped me to shift my perspective just a couple of degrees and taught me I could live in my own skin. I know I'm probably sounding like I'm talking around it, and others might be able to offer more concrete words to describe it, but the effect of the steps has truly been life altering for me.
And Krista...I was like you. Someone suggested I set aside everything I thought I knew about God/Higher Power/Creator/Spirit of the Universe and open my mind, childlike, to the possibility that I didn't know. Then I could begin to form a concept of a higher power I could live with. Do I understand? Nope. I just know I belong here. So do you.
Peace & Love,
Sugah
You've had a pretty good explanation, backed up by Big Book references, of the fourth step. It's not a list of "How I've screwed up everything I've touched." It's not proof that "everything in the universe is my fault." The fourth step inventory is a list of character traits that feed both negative and positive vibes into the universe (or however your spiritual beliefs have you think of it). It helps us see that we're not just an innocent victim of bad luck nor are we the muck in the pond that may as well just settle to the bottom and disappear from sight.
A sponsor has (hopefully!) been through the fourth step, helped by a sponsor, who was helped by a sponsor, all the way back to Bill & Dr. Bob (yes, they had sponsors -- Bill W.'s first sponsor was Ebby, and Dr. Bob's sponsor was Bill W.). My sponsor helped me to order my list. There were things I wanted to put on the deficit side that was my martyr complex coming out, trying to take responsibility for stuff that didn't belong to me! I had other traits I felt belonged on my "good" side, but after she walked me through it, my sponsor helped me to see that my "people pleasing" was in many cases an effort to manipulate and control.
As far as working with someone you don't know or trust, it's okay (and suggested in many circles) to listen and watch people you are considering to ask to sponsor you. Listen to what others say about the person as well. Does he speak of love, tolerance, acceptance, serenity? Does he "have what you want?" And does he seem to take those words and apply them to life outside the meetings? Does he practice what he preaches? Do other people you come to admire speak highly or lovingly of him? I'm not good with analogies, but I'll try: would you make an appointment with a doctor who's come highly recommended, has an observable good bedside manner, and who's been to medical school? We don't give competency tests in AA, so some of the selection has to be based on faith and gut instincts, but there are observable cues to help. And just like a doctor, if you don't like the one you choose, you can choose another. We don't sign sponsorship contracts.
Back to the fourth step -- if I hadn't completed it, marched on through the rest of them, and absorbed them into the grain of my life, I'd be drunk and probably dead by now. The fourth step helped me to shift my perspective just a couple of degrees and taught me I could live in my own skin. I know I'm probably sounding like I'm talking around it, and others might be able to offer more concrete words to describe it, but the effect of the steps has truly been life altering for me.
And Krista...I was like you. Someone suggested I set aside everything I thought I knew about God/Higher Power/Creator/Spirit of the Universe and open my mind, childlike, to the possibility that I didn't know. Then I could begin to form a concept of a higher power I could live with. Do I understand? Nope. I just know I belong here. So do you.
Peace & Love,
Sugah
Member
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: California
Posts: 972
Originally Posted by Sugah
I see two questions: Just what is a 4th step and why is it suggested I do it with a sponsor?Peace & Love,
Sugah
Sugah
Lots of people think of the 4th step as some form of roman catholic confession.. it is NOT. No one tells you what to do, the results are self evident..
It is simply a real hard look at your life, your senses of expectation, selfishness and your fears.
I hope this helps you understand why you need a sponsor.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: maumelle ar
Posts: 103
hello, ive been busier than a 1 legged man in a butt kickin contest, with work and meetings. ive decided not to use a sponsor. i will ask for help from another person with alot of sobriety time with steps 5,8 and 10, and any others i may need help with, that will be a long time from now anyway, but as far as reporting in on a daily bases and sharing the secrets of my past with someone i dont know or trust, im just not comfortable with that. what do you guys think? any advice and all comments are needed. thanks. BTW, today is day 11 and no pills!!!!!!!! OH YEAH!!!!!
Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: in a better place
Posts: 1,406
Wow, I was at a loss for words as I read this thread. I was so stubborn and confused when I tried to stop drinking. I felt many similar feelings as you and I hope you don't mind a long post to tell you about my experience.
I think the main thing I want to convey to you is that as lost and hesitant and doubtful as I was, I'm finally coming around at 4 months sober (10 months in the process). I was darn determined to get and stay sober without AA (and I've got threads to this affect), but I was just so wrapped up in all the negative and hateful thoughts that I just couldn't take it without wanting a drink to shut it all up.
I've been back and forth with AA a few times trying to "get it" and just recently (after 3 months sober) ended up bawling and sharing that I just don't understand why I need to call a sponsor, why would anyone WANT to listen to all my bullsh1t, why do I need to go to meetings, why do I need to do step work, how can I truly believe that some mysterious force is intervening with my reaching for a drink. I made a change in my approach on that day.
Now I call my sponsor each day, just to say things are fine. We usually end up talking for a long time and it helps to get it out of my head and try to straighten out some of my thoughts. I tell her over and over that I don't understand, but it's OK. She was once where I was and knows that it's just a phase, when of course I think life is over (or something else dramatic).
I go to meetings when possible (about 3 times a week) and almost invariably I hear something I needed to hear. It's a time when I can think a little slower and let things soak in and not try to hard to figure it out. Yes, those folks with lots of sober time really do know more than me and I sure as heck don't have an argument to prove them wrong. I almost always hear them say that being in a meeting has a calming effect for the day and helps them get their head in right thinking order, and I totally agree.
I always thought that I had steps 1, 2, and 3 done really quickly and easily, but only just recently am I truly feeling like I'm getting past the true acceptance. There's a huge difference between saying "yeah, I know I've f*k*d up a lot of things and my life changed because of drinking and yeah I believe in God and I pray now" <----that was me, and knowing in your gut that you are an addict and that you can and will be filled with the strength and courage to make the right decision if you believe it. After making a timeline to see the obsession build and my life go down the toilet it still took another 3 months sober before I could really feel in my soul that I couldn't stop it. There wasn't anything I could have done to alter the course aside from quitting totally.
Just like you I wanted to rush to get to my Step 4 to try to work out why I drank, solve it, and move on in life. I printed out stuff from a website and worked on it without a sponsor (sure you can do that). What I found though is that talking to my sponsor and other folks in the program, going to meetings, and digging deep into my heart and writing out tons of stuff is serving a tremendously positive role even without Step 4. Only now do I feel like I'm ready to move on. It makes a difference to have a clear head when approaching this stuff.
I believe it's possible to get sober without AA. I bellieve it's easier for some people to have a support system in place when things get rough. That's what I'm choosing right now. It's still so early for you. I would suggest that you simply just be sober and openminded for now and worry about finding and working a program later. And of course keep posting!
I think the main thing I want to convey to you is that as lost and hesitant and doubtful as I was, I'm finally coming around at 4 months sober (10 months in the process). I was darn determined to get and stay sober without AA (and I've got threads to this affect), but I was just so wrapped up in all the negative and hateful thoughts that I just couldn't take it without wanting a drink to shut it all up.
I've been back and forth with AA a few times trying to "get it" and just recently (after 3 months sober) ended up bawling and sharing that I just don't understand why I need to call a sponsor, why would anyone WANT to listen to all my bullsh1t, why do I need to go to meetings, why do I need to do step work, how can I truly believe that some mysterious force is intervening with my reaching for a drink. I made a change in my approach on that day.
Now I call my sponsor each day, just to say things are fine. We usually end up talking for a long time and it helps to get it out of my head and try to straighten out some of my thoughts. I tell her over and over that I don't understand, but it's OK. She was once where I was and knows that it's just a phase, when of course I think life is over (or something else dramatic).
I go to meetings when possible (about 3 times a week) and almost invariably I hear something I needed to hear. It's a time when I can think a little slower and let things soak in and not try to hard to figure it out. Yes, those folks with lots of sober time really do know more than me and I sure as heck don't have an argument to prove them wrong. I almost always hear them say that being in a meeting has a calming effect for the day and helps them get their head in right thinking order, and I totally agree.
I always thought that I had steps 1, 2, and 3 done really quickly and easily, but only just recently am I truly feeling like I'm getting past the true acceptance. There's a huge difference between saying "yeah, I know I've f*k*d up a lot of things and my life changed because of drinking and yeah I believe in God and I pray now" <----that was me, and knowing in your gut that you are an addict and that you can and will be filled with the strength and courage to make the right decision if you believe it. After making a timeline to see the obsession build and my life go down the toilet it still took another 3 months sober before I could really feel in my soul that I couldn't stop it. There wasn't anything I could have done to alter the course aside from quitting totally.
Just like you I wanted to rush to get to my Step 4 to try to work out why I drank, solve it, and move on in life. I printed out stuff from a website and worked on it without a sponsor (sure you can do that). What I found though is that talking to my sponsor and other folks in the program, going to meetings, and digging deep into my heart and writing out tons of stuff is serving a tremendously positive role even without Step 4. Only now do I feel like I'm ready to move on. It makes a difference to have a clear head when approaching this stuff.
I believe it's possible to get sober without AA. I bellieve it's easier for some people to have a support system in place when things get rough. That's what I'm choosing right now. It's still so early for you. I would suggest that you simply just be sober and openminded for now and worry about finding and working a program later. And of course keep posting!
Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: in a better place
Posts: 1,406
a little note to GB32 - I also wonder why God would make me this way and then get a chuckle watching me figure out how to correct myself. I was pissed! He's on my list of resentments LOL.
What I think though is that there are so many things that could have been wrong with me that are fatal or truly life altering. I just have to stop drinking to fix my problem. I also think that you get what you pray for if you really pray from your heart, not just your mouth.
Even if it's not some grayhaired dude on a cloud, I believe there is something (can't explain it as hard as I try) that fills me with courage when I need it, takes away the obsession when I'm stewing, and allows me to think clearly to arrive at a answer to a question, IF I BELIEVE IT WILL HAPPEN. It may appear that I'm just sitting calmly to think clearly or that I'm the one who picked up the phone to tell someone I'm going to down a bottle of vodka. But if left to my own devices, I wouldn't have done that, I would have chugged the vodka. Something deep inside of me rose up to give me the courage to call. That's the force I can't define and I don't need to. I just know it's there.
I hope this helps a little bit.
What I think though is that there are so many things that could have been wrong with me that are fatal or truly life altering. I just have to stop drinking to fix my problem. I also think that you get what you pray for if you really pray from your heart, not just your mouth.
Even if it's not some grayhaired dude on a cloud, I believe there is something (can't explain it as hard as I try) that fills me with courage when I need it, takes away the obsession when I'm stewing, and allows me to think clearly to arrive at a answer to a question, IF I BELIEVE IT WILL HAPPEN. It may appear that I'm just sitting calmly to think clearly or that I'm the one who picked up the phone to tell someone I'm going to down a bottle of vodka. But if left to my own devices, I wouldn't have done that, I would have chugged the vodka. Something deep inside of me rose up to give me the courage to call. That's the force I can't define and I don't need to. I just know it's there.
I hope this helps a little bit.
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
