180 Day Challenge Part 7
Member
Join Date: May 2021
Location: England
Posts: 1,849
We are certainly in need of constructive and careful dialogue between people, the middle way seems the best road and to which people with some good ideas and good sense may rally. Security is what most of us want. It seems a reasonable request.
Things have changed. I grew up near the city I now live in, and back then I am not sure there was anyone other than white people here. (It's a city in quite a rural part of the UK). I left when I was eighteen and lived for a couple of decades in London, Manchester and Liverpool returning to find my home had transformed and is now a modern muti cultural city. We have a big Chinese community, they are mainly students, and this has grown several shops selling all the wonderful foods and ingredients needed for Asian cooking. These alongside the Turkish, Indian, Pakistani and Polish communities mean we are a little microcosm of the world at large. We manage to get on. It's possible, and more than that it is quite fantastic to have the opportunity for a global perspective.
Abit of a ramble inspired by my taxi driver this morning who was an utterly charming french speaking Algerian who had made his home here and it turned out had a son almost as wayward as my daughter!. Anyway he drove me to see my mother who was a little frail but managed still to sing, in French, and chat about politics and gardening. We walked through the gardens and she thought we were in the gardens of our old home in Cornwall. All a little poignant.
Best wishes all.
Things have changed. I grew up near the city I now live in, and back then I am not sure there was anyone other than white people here. (It's a city in quite a rural part of the UK). I left when I was eighteen and lived for a couple of decades in London, Manchester and Liverpool returning to find my home had transformed and is now a modern muti cultural city. We have a big Chinese community, they are mainly students, and this has grown several shops selling all the wonderful foods and ingredients needed for Asian cooking. These alongside the Turkish, Indian, Pakistani and Polish communities mean we are a little microcosm of the world at large. We manage to get on. It's possible, and more than that it is quite fantastic to have the opportunity for a global perspective.
Abit of a ramble inspired by my taxi driver this morning who was an utterly charming french speaking Algerian who had made his home here and it turned out had a son almost as wayward as my daughter!. Anyway he drove me to see my mother who was a little frail but managed still to sing, in French, and chat about politics and gardening. We walked through the gardens and she thought we were in the gardens of our old home in Cornwall. All a little poignant.
Best wishes all.
Member
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Where I’ve longed to be all my life…..here, now.
Posts: 7,335
Hello, checking on now two weeks ago, we arrived home about now, fully exhausted and bloated.
Being mindful of my words, and my intake, has helped me for the better, so far.
So glad I don’t watch TV, but I do vote. I am so scared for our country. Our government is corrupt like everyone else’s, and we are just the little people.
Grateful,I FINALLY watched Flashdance (1983) starring Jennifer Beals. Wow. Just wow. Great music too.
pline, dust, Adv, Zura, you all sound good. I appreciate all your posts.
We never drink now…….and it’s always right now, eh?
Being mindful of my words, and my intake, has helped me for the better, so far.
So glad I don’t watch TV, but I do vote. I am so scared for our country. Our government is corrupt like everyone else’s, and we are just the little people.
Grateful,I FINALLY watched Flashdance (1983) starring Jennifer Beals. Wow. Just wow. Great music too.
pline, dust, Adv, Zura, you all sound good. I appreciate all your posts.
We never drink now…….and it’s always right now, eh?
Member
Join Date: May 2021
Location: England
Posts: 1,849
Dickenson your words are important and ring true. Sobriety must be our only way forward amidst personal challenges and global ones.
I am feeling down tonight. Daughter has now been suspended from school for ridiculous behaviour with a group of her friends. Will she ever wake up and smell the coffee or does this downward trajectory of hers still have a way to plummet before she reaches the bottom with a crash...I don't know.
'Acceptance' now that is a concept I struggle with. It would do me good to get better at it.
Best wishes to all.
I am feeling down tonight. Daughter has now been suspended from school for ridiculous behaviour with a group of her friends. Will she ever wake up and smell the coffee or does this downward trajectory of hers still have a way to plummet before she reaches the bottom with a crash...I don't know.
'Acceptance' now that is a concept I struggle with. It would do me good to get better at it.
Best wishes to all.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 2,696
Hey all 😁
Advbike - glad you caught up on rest after all your activities.
Pline - hope you have a good visit with your son.
Free - glad your feeling better overall, good job bringing health and wellbeing back into focus.
dickensen - so true, well put.
Dusty - it must be difficult to detach but I certainly get the need too, very challenging situation.
All good here generally. Just bored of the day to day mediocrity. But if that's your biggest complaint, life is good! Will have opportunity to shake things up and get out and about when I have a more reliable vehicle which shouldn't be too far off now.
Hope everyone is having/has a great weekend ❤️.
Advbike - glad you caught up on rest after all your activities.
Pline - hope you have a good visit with your son.
Free - glad your feeling better overall, good job bringing health and wellbeing back into focus.
dickensen - so true, well put.
Dusty - it must be difficult to detach but I certainly get the need too, very challenging situation.
All good here generally. Just bored of the day to day mediocrity. But if that's your biggest complaint, life is good! Will have opportunity to shake things up and get out and about when I have a more reliable vehicle which shouldn't be too far off now.
Hope everyone is having/has a great weekend ❤️.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Sonoran Desert & Southeast Asia
Posts: 6,561
Amen, Dickensen - so true. Dusty, so sorry to hear of what you're going through. It would seem that acceptance could be helpful.
All quiet here on the Western Front. I went around a large radius area with a neighbor this morning to remove campaign signs, and we had such a good time talking and sharing stories that she bought me coffee afterward, since I drove. Very pleasant. I need to get out more, lol. But I am appalled that they are not recyclable, They are a plastic corrugated material - like plastic cardboard and the thought of them going into the landfill makes me ill. Too much plastic waste already, and so much ends up in the oceans. I wonder if they can be repurposed into building materials of some sort, lol. They could even be used for emergency shelters as they are waterproof, and have insulating value. Not for use in typhoons, though, haha.
Zura just saw your post. I don't think mediocrity is a valid or accurate term. I believe you live and embody a life of purpose - doing things that are meaningful to you, raising productive and ethical young people and living a minimalist lifestyle that doesn't harm future generations. What more could one ask for, and hardly a life of mediocrity.
Wishing all a great, sober weekend.
All quiet here on the Western Front. I went around a large radius area with a neighbor this morning to remove campaign signs, and we had such a good time talking and sharing stories that she bought me coffee afterward, since I drove. Very pleasant. I need to get out more, lol. But I am appalled that they are not recyclable, They are a plastic corrugated material - like plastic cardboard and the thought of them going into the landfill makes me ill. Too much plastic waste already, and so much ends up in the oceans. I wonder if they can be repurposed into building materials of some sort, lol. They could even be used for emergency shelters as they are waterproof, and have insulating value. Not for use in typhoons, though, haha.
Zura just saw your post. I don't think mediocrity is a valid or accurate term. I believe you live and embody a life of purpose - doing things that are meaningful to you, raising productive and ethical young people and living a minimalist lifestyle that doesn't harm future generations. What more could one ask for, and hardly a life of mediocrity.
Wishing all a great, sober weekend.
over hung over
Join Date: Mar 2021
Posts: 635
Hello all.
Dusty, daughter sounds like a handful. Old enough to do stuff, but maybe not old enough to deal with the consequences. Or to appreciate what they could be. Feels like only thing you can do is be around to catch, but no longer can steer. Young ppl, feel bullet proof, I did. My skin crawls when I think of some of the things we did.
Also, and this won't be much help I know, we need to adjust for our older selves who are far more cautious and fearful than the younger versions. The younger versions have the front and sass to get away with stuff that we would not do. So maybe to a degree, we have to go with it and just let them know that if it does go sh*t shaped they have fallback.
All I can do now is provide cash. I really don't know about the current jaunt to Georgia. This weekend I have to ask why? and why now?
The corflute campaign signs. Don't worry about it. Getting rid of plastic bags in supermarkets saves tonnes and tonnes of plastic and its easy to do. Just take your own bag. Here you pay 15 cents for a strong bag u can use again and again. You can buy net bags for those vegetables. In my old job, we would use recycled plastic where wherever possible. There is one completed job that contains 15 million shopping bags that didn't go to landfill. All turned into weatherproof plastic decking. Terrible slippery in morning frost. But can be done.
Zura....I look at my tomato plants, wonder if they are planted right and think, what would Zura do? So your experience and thought is valued by people around you, live and online. Many thanks.
Ok....on we go.
Dusty, daughter sounds like a handful. Old enough to do stuff, but maybe not old enough to deal with the consequences. Or to appreciate what they could be. Feels like only thing you can do is be around to catch, but no longer can steer. Young ppl, feel bullet proof, I did. My skin crawls when I think of some of the things we did.
Also, and this won't be much help I know, we need to adjust for our older selves who are far more cautious and fearful than the younger versions. The younger versions have the front and sass to get away with stuff that we would not do. So maybe to a degree, we have to go with it and just let them know that if it does go sh*t shaped they have fallback.
All I can do now is provide cash. I really don't know about the current jaunt to Georgia. This weekend I have to ask why? and why now?
The corflute campaign signs. Don't worry about it. Getting rid of plastic bags in supermarkets saves tonnes and tonnes of plastic and its easy to do. Just take your own bag. Here you pay 15 cents for a strong bag u can use again and again. You can buy net bags for those vegetables. In my old job, we would use recycled plastic where wherever possible. There is one completed job that contains 15 million shopping bags that didn't go to landfill. All turned into weatherproof plastic decking. Terrible slippery in morning frost. But can be done.
Zura....I look at my tomato plants, wonder if they are planted right and think, what would Zura do? So your experience and thought is valued by people around you, live and online. Many thanks.
Ok....on we go.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Sonoran Desert & Southeast Asia
Posts: 6,561
A brisk, chilly good morning to all, from the desert. Might need that heated vest this morning on the motorcycle. Dusty your little multicultural city sounds wonderful, a similar thing happened in the place I grew up near silicon valley, only skewed way too much toward the high tech workers of Oracle, Apple, Tesla and others - no food stalls except at the Saturday market, but plenty of high end restaurants. I bailed out after mom passed. She also (having taught French and lived in French speaking countries) could speak it pretty well to the end. Delightful. Bless them all. Off for a nippy ride.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 2,696
Good morning 🌞
advbike - haha thanks, maybe mediocrity isn't the right word, grind might be more apt, but I definetely need a break from hard work and a getaway. I haven't left the area in about three years due to various factors (fires, pandemics, floods, but mainly rundown car). So no nature or beach trips. I've been thinking a trip to the Great Barrier Reef staying in the Daintree Rainforest might be the thing. I can chill out in a rainforest, near the beach doing yoga and meditation for a week, no labour!! Ideally I'd like to take the time and explore the coast on the way up......might need a few months. Maybe more because knowing me I'll want too keep going and end up finally doing my trip around Australia. I'll have to wait till my son is officially an adult so it's a way off yet, time to think about what adventure I'd like to take. The world's my oyster. I might even decide on some overseas travel. But in the meantime hopefully I'll atleast get to the beach or the national park!
Pline - thanks, haha I bet your tomato plants are coming along way better than mine. The few that germinated are only two or three centromeres tall and I planted them a couple of months ago 🤣. Slugs ate most of everything else that germinated, and it was a low percentage that even germinated. The weather's not been veggie friendly at all lol. Hopefully it'll clear up now and I can get a decent bumper crop in. Not looking forward to redoing all that work though lol it's alot.
Anyway off to make a coffee, hope everyone is having a good weekend ❤️.
advbike - haha thanks, maybe mediocrity isn't the right word, grind might be more apt, but I definetely need a break from hard work and a getaway. I haven't left the area in about three years due to various factors (fires, pandemics, floods, but mainly rundown car). So no nature or beach trips. I've been thinking a trip to the Great Barrier Reef staying in the Daintree Rainforest might be the thing. I can chill out in a rainforest, near the beach doing yoga and meditation for a week, no labour!! Ideally I'd like to take the time and explore the coast on the way up......might need a few months. Maybe more because knowing me I'll want too keep going and end up finally doing my trip around Australia. I'll have to wait till my son is officially an adult so it's a way off yet, time to think about what adventure I'd like to take. The world's my oyster. I might even decide on some overseas travel. But in the meantime hopefully I'll atleast get to the beach or the national park!
Pline - thanks, haha I bet your tomato plants are coming along way better than mine. The few that germinated are only two or three centromeres tall and I planted them a couple of months ago 🤣. Slugs ate most of everything else that germinated, and it was a low percentage that even germinated. The weather's not been veggie friendly at all lol. Hopefully it'll clear up now and I can get a decent bumper crop in. Not looking forward to redoing all that work though lol it's alot.
Anyway off to make a coffee, hope everyone is having a good weekend ❤️.
Member
Join Date: May 2021
Location: England
Posts: 1,849
Talking of tomato plants, I went to the allotment today for, first time in what seems like weeks, and amazingly the tomato plants I planted back in May are still producing tomatoes. I picked a load and roasted them with courgettes, garlic and yellow beetroot. Delicious.
Zura I do believe that there is nothing mediocre about your life, which seems to me to have so much that is creative and life-enhancing in it. Sometimes 'family' life can seem repetitive and confining and that is something that can be hard to shake off. But the time will come when our birds fly from the nest and then the adventures can begin...or continue. Until then days can still be filled with growth both for ourselves and our gardens.
Yes pline daughter is a handful, she and her friends certainly do see themselves as invincible and believe that the boring rules just do not apply to them. They are rebels without a cause for sure. But I will endeavour to remember that youth is like this, as I was myself, and can only be very grateful I have lived to tell the tale of it all.
I am going to see a film tomorrow evening, 'Living' it is about a man at the end of his life, played by Bill Nighy who wants to shake off the humdrum of his daily existence and experience life and relationships more intensely. It's been adapted from Akira Kurosawa's novel by Kazuo Ishiguro whose writing I love so I am looking forward to it. I used to think that alcohol helped me experience life more intensely, but now I know that to be just not the case. Sobriety delivers life with a much sharper edge.
Best wishes to all.
Zura I do believe that there is nothing mediocre about your life, which seems to me to have so much that is creative and life-enhancing in it. Sometimes 'family' life can seem repetitive and confining and that is something that can be hard to shake off. But the time will come when our birds fly from the nest and then the adventures can begin...or continue. Until then days can still be filled with growth both for ourselves and our gardens.
Yes pline daughter is a handful, she and her friends certainly do see themselves as invincible and believe that the boring rules just do not apply to them. They are rebels without a cause for sure. But I will endeavour to remember that youth is like this, as I was myself, and can only be very grateful I have lived to tell the tale of it all.
I am going to see a film tomorrow evening, 'Living' it is about a man at the end of his life, played by Bill Nighy who wants to shake off the humdrum of his daily existence and experience life and relationships more intensely. It's been adapted from Akira Kurosawa's novel by Kazuo Ishiguro whose writing I love so I am looking forward to it. I used to think that alcohol helped me experience life more intensely, but now I know that to be just not the case. Sobriety delivers life with a much sharper edge.
Best wishes to all.
over hung over
Join Date: Mar 2021
Posts: 635
Lunch today with the tall lanky grey eyed guy. Teasing me a bit re my doubts. Easy and confident. Long may it continue untouched.
We talked about travel scams. And a lot about Russia and the Ukes. Maybe not for here. His Nan said her few last words before this trip, and we left.
Anyway.
There is a Japanese idea that I have learned about: 'ikigai'. There is a little book about it I read. 'ikigai' isn't easy to find a word for but its something like 'your thing'. The thing that you are suited to doing, that you focus on, and find worth and value in your life by refining it, and doing it ever better. You become polished at this thing, a person valued for their experience and skill. The life well lived is one where you find your ikigai thing and pursue it. Its a non-western idea in that it ignores the idea of financial return and attached social status. Its an alternative idea of status and achievement, based on how well you follow your thing. If you are fortunate, you may find your ikigai early in life. My son has with languages. I didn't find it, or was driven from it.
Zura, you read like someone who has found their ikigai. You tend and grow. It's never gonna make you corporate rich, probably none of us are. But if it is your thing, and you love it, you do it well. You've found your ikigai. It is a worthwhile and valuable life to live.
Ok...later
We talked about travel scams. And a lot about Russia and the Ukes. Maybe not for here. His Nan said her few last words before this trip, and we left.
Anyway.
There is a Japanese idea that I have learned about: 'ikigai'. There is a little book about it I read. 'ikigai' isn't easy to find a word for but its something like 'your thing'. The thing that you are suited to doing, that you focus on, and find worth and value in your life by refining it, and doing it ever better. You become polished at this thing, a person valued for their experience and skill. The life well lived is one where you find your ikigai thing and pursue it. Its a non-western idea in that it ignores the idea of financial return and attached social status. Its an alternative idea of status and achievement, based on how well you follow your thing. If you are fortunate, you may find your ikigai early in life. My son has with languages. I didn't find it, or was driven from it.
Zura, you read like someone who has found their ikigai. You tend and grow. It's never gonna make you corporate rich, probably none of us are. But if it is your thing, and you love it, you do it well. You've found your ikigai. It is a worthwhile and valuable life to live.
Ok...later
Member
Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 2,696
Morning all 🌞
Dusty - that's awesome about the tomatoes!! My tomatoes start late but also grow late, they're not meant to grow into winter here especially as it's a cold climate but go figure. I've thought for sometime that the seasons have shifted, perhaps they have and the local info hasn't been updated to reflect it 🤔. The movie sounds very interesting, enjoy!
pline: 'ikigai' is a great phrase, I think there's quite alot of valuable philosophy in the Japanese culture. My son studied it (loosely) and had a brief dalliance with bonsai. I got him some books on culture and I ended up reading them, not him 😂 (I enjoyed homeschooling more then him I think). I didn't come across 'ikigai' so thanks for sharing.
Have a good day all ❤️.
Dusty - that's awesome about the tomatoes!! My tomatoes start late but also grow late, they're not meant to grow into winter here especially as it's a cold climate but go figure. I've thought for sometime that the seasons have shifted, perhaps they have and the local info hasn't been updated to reflect it 🤔. The movie sounds very interesting, enjoy!
pline: 'ikigai' is a great phrase, I think there's quite alot of valuable philosophy in the Japanese culture. My son studied it (loosely) and had a brief dalliance with bonsai. I got him some books on culture and I ended up reading them, not him 😂 (I enjoyed homeschooling more then him I think). I didn't come across 'ikigai' so thanks for sharing.
Have a good day all ❤️.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Sonoran Desert & Southeast Asia
Posts: 6,561
Deep into the year end financial decisions the past couple of days, and still a bit of election drama here. Plus, talking about seasonal change - it's getting cold now so I'm not riding much, and am eating more.. craving carbs of all types. Headed for Mexican food.. and this is how the winter weight goes on. Temps in the 70's (21C and up) appear to be long gone now which means riding the bike is getting really chilly. Mornings close to freezing. I put on more but then sweat. Even Goretex never seems to work well for me. Time to start hiking more.
I have pushed my internal thermostat too high by spending so much time living and working out in very hot and/or humid tropical climates. I wish I could head back to the tropics now, except I still have a few projects to finish and promised my bro I'd spend Christmas up there in the snow country. Aarghh.. this is the last time I do that. I wanted to see him for Thanksgiving and head over in Dec. Now I'm stuck here realistically for two more months when the weather in Southeast Asia is becoming perfect with the northern trade winds (the Amihan) from China blowing down and cooling things off.
Pline, I love the concept of ikigai, and yes I have seen that with Japanese, but didn't know the term. It is certainly something to admire for those who have chosen such a path. Perfection, Kaizen, etc... I am not one who has been able to embrace the concept unfortunately, having been all over the map during my lifetime (literally and figuratively) - especially when it comes to careers, locations, and relationships. I was definitely a jack of all trades but master of none.. too impatient to perfect the skills and always wanting to experience something new, but it served me reasonably well. I admire those who focus and dive deep. Glad you had a good talk with your son.
Best to all and a (belated) great week ahead
I have pushed my internal thermostat too high by spending so much time living and working out in very hot and/or humid tropical climates. I wish I could head back to the tropics now, except I still have a few projects to finish and promised my bro I'd spend Christmas up there in the snow country. Aarghh.. this is the last time I do that. I wanted to see him for Thanksgiving and head over in Dec. Now I'm stuck here realistically for two more months when the weather in Southeast Asia is becoming perfect with the northern trade winds (the Amihan) from China blowing down and cooling things off.
Pline, I love the concept of ikigai, and yes I have seen that with Japanese, but didn't know the term. It is certainly something to admire for those who have chosen such a path. Perfection, Kaizen, etc... I am not one who has been able to embrace the concept unfortunately, having been all over the map during my lifetime (literally and figuratively) - especially when it comes to careers, locations, and relationships. I was definitely a jack of all trades but master of none.. too impatient to perfect the skills and always wanting to experience something new, but it served me reasonably well. I admire those who focus and dive deep. Glad you had a good talk with your son.
Best to all and a (belated) great week ahead
Member
Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 2,696
Advbike - extremes in weather are always hard. There never seems a good balance lol. Being on SR has made me realise just how NOT cold it is where I live comparatively to other places overseas. We do get into the low minuses (C) which is cold to most of Australia lol. Anyway I don't much care for the hot or cold so I sympathise with anyone who deals with extremes. Humidity sounds awful to me also so I'm not sure how I'd fair personally in a tropical climate. Might not enjoy the Daintree after all although I'm very attracted to go.
Had a rather large panic episode today. So more healing is necessary, although I do sometimes wonder if I'll always live with this to a certain degree. I know all the psychology behind it all but it seems when you've had such high level trauma it's difficult. Really it's amazing I'm together as I am but the harshness of life has taught me the need to be strong and vulnerability is in direct opposition to that. Anyway I think I'll write the afternoon off and let my body recover.
Had a rather large panic episode today. So more healing is necessary, although I do sometimes wonder if I'll always live with this to a certain degree. I know all the psychology behind it all but it seems when you've had such high level trauma it's difficult. Really it's amazing I'm together as I am but the harshness of life has taught me the need to be strong and vulnerability is in direct opposition to that. Anyway I think I'll write the afternoon off and let my body recover.
over hung over
Join Date: Mar 2021
Posts: 635
Can't decide whether I've never had a panic attack or whether its just my normal lol. Tho I do know my son would get them, had one in the back of the ute when we doing a quick one off run of an unregistered trailer to shift a car. wtf, we had to stop and wait for his nan to come and get him. We're sitting there in the front with the lights off just quietly waiting to get busted. The next set of lights will be either the cops or nan. You ok mate?
The strange thing about it was that he had medication for it it which slowly failed as he went through adolescence. I asked a lot, being a father, and had it explained. Told me he'd hold some ice under his tongue if he felt it come on, concentrate on the cold, not the feelings.
Being an articulate guy he explained in a lot of detail what panic attacks were like.
Had to listen, respond. I just don't think I'm sufficiently emotionally responsive to anything now to have one though. I'm just blank now. I just don't feel response to what seems to motivate others. There is a kind of indifferent peace to it.
I genuinely feel that human climate change is garbage. I know that renewable energy is a massive corporate fraud. The real punk rock position is radical indifference to the latest corporate scam. Which is wrong because they are going to damage so many people's lives with their latest obsession. In the last decade, China has spewed out more c02 the the UK produced since starting the industrial revolution. That's about since 1790 non history ppl.
Grrrrr
The strange thing about it was that he had medication for it it which slowly failed as he went through adolescence. I asked a lot, being a father, and had it explained. Told me he'd hold some ice under his tongue if he felt it come on, concentrate on the cold, not the feelings.
Being an articulate guy he explained in a lot of detail what panic attacks were like.
Had to listen, respond. I just don't think I'm sufficiently emotionally responsive to anything now to have one though. I'm just blank now. I just don't feel response to what seems to motivate others. There is a kind of indifferent peace to it.
I genuinely feel that human climate change is garbage. I know that renewable energy is a massive corporate fraud. The real punk rock position is radical indifference to the latest corporate scam. Which is wrong because they are going to damage so many people's lives with their latest obsession. In the last decade, China has spewed out more c02 the the UK produced since starting the industrial revolution. That's about since 1790 non history ppl.
Grrrrr
Member
Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 2,696
Pline - I don't know if Ive ever had a full blown panic attack either. In this case I was referring to a panic episode as the fight flight freeze limbic system response. The physiological after effects did cause one hell of a panic 'hangover', and scrambled up the cognitive functions. Could do without that lol.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Sonoran Desert & Southeast Asia
Posts: 6,561
Sorry to hear about the panic episode, Zura. Must be terrible. I don't get them so no experience.
Pline, we're all entitled to our own opinions, but you have mentioned your belief that man-made climate change is fake a few times.. so I'll just tell you where I sit on the subject, and have for twenty years. A few points, but no need to beat it to death after that.
1) We're warmer by roughly 1 deg C , since 1900, most of that just since 1975. This is known.
2) CO2 in the atmosphere is at 400ppm now - up from 290 in 1900. That's a rapid rise, most of it since WW II, due to the massive increase in industrial production and burning of fossil fuels. And methane is up from cow farts too, haha.. (seriously)..
3) Scientists tell us that greenhouse gas emissions are the cause of the warming - why would I doubt them? I don't believe there is a conspiracy to increase green energy.. and that thousands of scientists are in on it. Or that it is the result of sunspots or normal climate variability. Not this fast and consistently going one direction - up.. we went from a general cooling trend to sudden reversal in middle of 20th century and climbing ever since.
4) I'm a systems thinker and I find it impossible to believe that you can pump 40 BILLION TONS of ANYTHING (in this case CO2) into a closed system (the atmosphere) EVERY YEAR without having an effect. It's simply not possible. It makes no sense. That carbon was previously stored safely in the ground, minding it's own business for millenia.. and we have now taken about half of it (fossil fuels), burned it, and PUT IT INTO OUR ATMOSPHERE, where, oh by the way, it remains for a thousand years. And it doesn't help that at the same time, we're burning off millions of square miles of dense rainforest in the Amazon and Southeast Asia that helped sequester said carbon - in order to raise cattle and palm oil... that really irks me.. but I digress..
5) Fortunately the oceans store a lot of the excess heat or we would be sweating more than we are, lol. But they can only uptake so much without becoming increasingly acidic. And yeah, that has bad effects too. Like on that coral.. and fish species.. Grrrr..
6) The worst part is that now the BIG feedback loops are starting to come into play - thawing permafrost in large parts of the Arctic that gives off huge quantities of potent methane, as well as the melting glaciers in Greenland and Antarctica. These will have a disproportionate, non-linear effect on humanity.. can't be stopped once started..
So yeah, my opinion is it's PAST TIME to take action, especially now that the cost of wind and solar energy have dropped BELOW the cost of conventional power generation. Right.. cheaper. I mean, why wouldn't you? How does that hurt people's lives? There will be tons of jobs in renewables scale up, retrofits, etc. Why take the risk of wiping out our species? Sure it's a massive transition, I get that. There are storage and grid issues.. and it's going to be expensive.. but what's the alternative?
Oh yeah - China. They have emitted so much CO2 because we all sent our manufacturing there. Remember? Low cost, cheap crap.. that has to be shipped.. and they were mainly using coal - but are now growing renewables faster than anyone. The one's I feel bad for indeed are the poor countries who did nothing to cause this and are feeling the effects with no way to mitigate it. Some are slipping under rising seas, others have drought. That's the real tragedy here in my opinion.
Pline, we're all entitled to our own opinions, but you have mentioned your belief that man-made climate change is fake a few times.. so I'll just tell you where I sit on the subject, and have for twenty years. A few points, but no need to beat it to death after that.
1) We're warmer by roughly 1 deg C , since 1900, most of that just since 1975. This is known.
2) CO2 in the atmosphere is at 400ppm now - up from 290 in 1900. That's a rapid rise, most of it since WW II, due to the massive increase in industrial production and burning of fossil fuels. And methane is up from cow farts too, haha.. (seriously)..
3) Scientists tell us that greenhouse gas emissions are the cause of the warming - why would I doubt them? I don't believe there is a conspiracy to increase green energy.. and that thousands of scientists are in on it. Or that it is the result of sunspots or normal climate variability. Not this fast and consistently going one direction - up.. we went from a general cooling trend to sudden reversal in middle of 20th century and climbing ever since.
4) I'm a systems thinker and I find it impossible to believe that you can pump 40 BILLION TONS of ANYTHING (in this case CO2) into a closed system (the atmosphere) EVERY YEAR without having an effect. It's simply not possible. It makes no sense. That carbon was previously stored safely in the ground, minding it's own business for millenia.. and we have now taken about half of it (fossil fuels), burned it, and PUT IT INTO OUR ATMOSPHERE, where, oh by the way, it remains for a thousand years. And it doesn't help that at the same time, we're burning off millions of square miles of dense rainforest in the Amazon and Southeast Asia that helped sequester said carbon - in order to raise cattle and palm oil... that really irks me.. but I digress..
5) Fortunately the oceans store a lot of the excess heat or we would be sweating more than we are, lol. But they can only uptake so much without becoming increasingly acidic. And yeah, that has bad effects too. Like on that coral.. and fish species.. Grrrr..
6) The worst part is that now the BIG feedback loops are starting to come into play - thawing permafrost in large parts of the Arctic that gives off huge quantities of potent methane, as well as the melting glaciers in Greenland and Antarctica. These will have a disproportionate, non-linear effect on humanity.. can't be stopped once started..
So yeah, my opinion is it's PAST TIME to take action, especially now that the cost of wind and solar energy have dropped BELOW the cost of conventional power generation. Right.. cheaper. I mean, why wouldn't you? How does that hurt people's lives? There will be tons of jobs in renewables scale up, retrofits, etc. Why take the risk of wiping out our species? Sure it's a massive transition, I get that. There are storage and grid issues.. and it's going to be expensive.. but what's the alternative?
Oh yeah - China. They have emitted so much CO2 because we all sent our manufacturing there. Remember? Low cost, cheap crap.. that has to be shipped.. and they were mainly using coal - but are now growing renewables faster than anyone. The one's I feel bad for indeed are the poor countries who did nothing to cause this and are feeling the effects with no way to mitigate it. Some are slipping under rising seas, others have drought. That's the real tragedy here in my opinion.
Member
Join Date: May 2021
Location: England
Posts: 1,849
advbike you have pretty much completed my son's geography homework on the climate emergency debate - Thank you for amassing those facts so succinctly
Here in the UK we are trying to look at renewables, but quite frankly it's too little too late.
On a related topic......I had the pleasure of buying a funeral plan today ( for my mother who does not have one) and one choice I need to consider is a green burial - an interesting option to consider on many levels. I shall do some research.
Best wishes all.
Here in the UK we are trying to look at renewables, but quite frankly it's too little too late.
On a related topic......I had the pleasure of buying a funeral plan today ( for my mother who does not have one) and one choice I need to consider is a green burial - an interesting option to consider on many levels. I shall do some research.
Best wishes all.
over hung over
Join Date: Mar 2021
Posts: 635
....yeah Dusty, but however succinct, they are not 'facts', they're assertions. No citations, its boilerplate climate changer stuff. Assert, then links are made between the assertions to suggest that x will be the inevitable outcome. Then there is endless number crunching to 'prove' that renewables are already rock bottom cheap. Only because tax funded price manipulation has made them so. Borrowed money. Sure, there are some problems with distribution and storage. But, of course, a government with vision will go out and borrow/ print yet more add to the debt to fix that as well.
Now, I have no wish to pick at Adv, or to take this discussion in an unhappy direction. I'm not a system thinker. But I am deeply interested in how people think culturally.
Western thinking has become fixed on the impending catastrophic since the 70's. Rachel Carson's 'Silent Spring' was an early one. Pollution. Paul Ehrlich, "The Population Bomb. We were all going to be starving by now. Books about how the ever impending great Tokyo earthquake was going to take down the world system. Then there was 'peak oil'. Which came and went. Its endless fearful yada yada, pesticides, plastics, petrol. But why?
Because western culture has lost confidence in itself, in its ability to reinvent and renew.
Climate change may be happening....it may be man made, it may be a long cycle natural change. We genuinely don't know.
But, what we do know is this: Collective international action is NOT happening and nor will it. There are two huge countries neither of which will will engage with collective action.One is making a lot of money exporting solar panels that start to fade after 18 years. Cheap and fast, they don't care, up to you to find somewhere to bury them, leaching toxically. I could attach a link to a paper here that looks at the economics of mining the minerals required for current tech storage batteries. "Rare earths" are rare because they exist in low concentrations. You have to dig up a lot to find little. The paper concludes that open earth mining will have to be 5 times the current volume to produce enough for renewable storage to be viable. The tech for this isn't here yet.
Do a you tube search on 'burning tesla'. Unreal. The current batteries burn, here a new battery farm, a cell spontaneously combusted before they'd even finished the fence. The local fire brigade couldn't put it out....they burn so hot and toxic smoke, they just had to back off and contain it till it burnt itself out. And ppl are putting these in their homes.? A local fire brigade reports an increase in home fires started by the electric scooter batteries. Lithium polymer....burns hard white. I make radio controlled models, so LiPo's have been around for a while
So, as a younger man I went to art school, and ended up talking mainly to the art history people. Who included a group exploring a new area. They were a 70's group of post-marxists. Roughly, marxism had failed 'cos capitalism had moved on commodify other things.
Like language, meanings. It was a different way to see. Roland Barthes wrote columns for a famous Paris paper about how ads construct their meanings. I see the climate change thing as the latest catastrophe thrill, constructed by people who know this and are suddenly massively corporately funded. Just don't buy it.
so Ms Dusty, your child will put in the homework, and it will get a big tick of approval from the teacher who genuinely believes they are 'doing something' by teaching kids the 'consensus'.
Plenty dont buy it. And we're not Trump voters, deplorables, just educated, curious people who want to really understand the world available to us.
Okay....said enough.
Now, I have no wish to pick at Adv, or to take this discussion in an unhappy direction. I'm not a system thinker. But I am deeply interested in how people think culturally.
Western thinking has become fixed on the impending catastrophic since the 70's. Rachel Carson's 'Silent Spring' was an early one. Pollution. Paul Ehrlich, "The Population Bomb. We were all going to be starving by now. Books about how the ever impending great Tokyo earthquake was going to take down the world system. Then there was 'peak oil'. Which came and went. Its endless fearful yada yada, pesticides, plastics, petrol. But why?
Because western culture has lost confidence in itself, in its ability to reinvent and renew.
Climate change may be happening....it may be man made, it may be a long cycle natural change. We genuinely don't know.
But, what we do know is this: Collective international action is NOT happening and nor will it. There are two huge countries neither of which will will engage with collective action.One is making a lot of money exporting solar panels that start to fade after 18 years. Cheap and fast, they don't care, up to you to find somewhere to bury them, leaching toxically. I could attach a link to a paper here that looks at the economics of mining the minerals required for current tech storage batteries. "Rare earths" are rare because they exist in low concentrations. You have to dig up a lot to find little. The paper concludes that open earth mining will have to be 5 times the current volume to produce enough for renewable storage to be viable. The tech for this isn't here yet.
Do a you tube search on 'burning tesla'. Unreal. The current batteries burn, here a new battery farm, a cell spontaneously combusted before they'd even finished the fence. The local fire brigade couldn't put it out....they burn so hot and toxic smoke, they just had to back off and contain it till it burnt itself out. And ppl are putting these in their homes.? A local fire brigade reports an increase in home fires started by the electric scooter batteries. Lithium polymer....burns hard white. I make radio controlled models, so LiPo's have been around for a while
So, as a younger man I went to art school, and ended up talking mainly to the art history people. Who included a group exploring a new area. They were a 70's group of post-marxists. Roughly, marxism had failed 'cos capitalism had moved on commodify other things.
Like language, meanings. It was a different way to see. Roland Barthes wrote columns for a famous Paris paper about how ads construct their meanings. I see the climate change thing as the latest catastrophe thrill, constructed by people who know this and are suddenly massively corporately funded. Just don't buy it.
so Ms Dusty, your child will put in the homework, and it will get a big tick of approval from the teacher who genuinely believes they are 'doing something' by teaching kids the 'consensus'.
Plenty dont buy it. And we're not Trump voters, deplorables, just educated, curious people who want to really understand the world available to us.
Okay....said enough.
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Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Sonoran Desert & Southeast Asia
Posts: 6,561
Clarification: while typing I used square miles as a placeholder, thinking I would get a more specific number.. but forgot..
I meant hectares:
MAAP estimates that nearly 2.2 million hectares (5.4 million acres) of the Brazilian Amazon’s standing rainforest burned last year (2020), an area roughly the size of the country of Wales in the U.K.
*Monitoring of the Andean Amazon
Oh I can give you tons of citations, Pline, but it's not worth my time to gather them and try and convince you. I have even spoken to James Hansen at NASA about second-order climate forcing (via email discussion). He dedicated much of his career to this issue as have many there and at other notable science-based organizations. Like I said you have your opinion, I have mine. And I suspect I'm more optimistic than you are because what the science teaches me is that we can actually do something about this.
I meant hectares:
MAAP estimates that nearly 2.2 million hectares (5.4 million acres) of the Brazilian Amazon’s standing rainforest burned last year (2020), an area roughly the size of the country of Wales in the U.K.
*Monitoring of the Andean Amazon
Oh I can give you tons of citations, Pline, but it's not worth my time to gather them and try and convince you. I have even spoken to James Hansen at NASA about second-order climate forcing (via email discussion). He dedicated much of his career to this issue as have many there and at other notable science-based organizations. Like I said you have your opinion, I have mine. And I suspect I'm more optimistic than you are because what the science teaches me is that we can actually do something about this.
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