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Class of October 2013 - Part 8

Old 01-26-2014, 01:16 PM
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That is what I enjoy about getting older and wiser. On reflecting on your mens' retreats experiences, Bilr and JL: I know in my younger, drunker, less secure days, I would stay on things like this that I hated worrying about hurting feelings, or desperately hoping things would get better or out of guilt for the money I spent. Now, I just say that life is too short to spend it on mistakes!!!
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Old 01-26-2014, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by DoubleDragons View Post
That is what I enjoy about getting older and wiser. On reflecting on your mens' retreats experiences, Bilr and JL: I know in my younger, drunker, less secure days, I would stay on things like this that I hated worrying about hurting feelings, or desperately hoping things would get better or out of guilt for the money I spent. Now, I just say that life is too short to spend it on mistakes!!!
I can't agree more. I thought, why am I going to stay here and ruin my weekend when it's not where I want to be. I feel a little bad for the guy who invited me but he wasn't real upfront about the whole thing. Probably didn't want to scare me off. He did make a point that it wasn't a Christian retreat because he invited a Jewish guy and there were atheists there. But then the whole first couple hours were spent saying we had to be "all in" with Jesus. Another thing that we were told that us men had to be the spiritual leaders of our households, and not leave it up to our wives. I was hoping for less spiritual retreat where we could just learn to be better husbands and fathers. I am much better at both since September 1.
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Old 01-26-2014, 02:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Bilr44 View Post
I have never done yoga in my life. I am about one belt below black belt in Taekwondo though.
Fishy swimming back . . .

Bilr, my son is Red Executive. Just a few more tests . . . and I'll have my live back!

But all my props to you! I know what this has required.

The (sheepish) fish
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Old 01-26-2014, 03:12 PM
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Glad to see you back fishy, HD and LS, and that you are all doing well! A couple of things....watched Osage County last night and when Meryl Streep went "off" on her kids and everyone else, hubby and I had a great conversation about WTF....there comes a point in your life (as we get older) that we would SO like to say some similar things to our kids and people we know. I mean, come on....at some point it DOES become about US and the years we have left....we should be able to do whatever we want (as long as we don't hurt others). For me, I WANTED to quit drinking....MY CHOICE. Of course my kids were glad, but this time, it wasn't about them or what they wanted.....if I wanted to kill myself by drinking or drugging....then, at this age....it's kinda like "Leave me alone!"....Maybe selfish....but, at what point in our lives do we get to be? Anyway, a REALLY interesting thing just happened. As you know, hubby still drinks beer....no big deal...he doesn't really over do and has respected my request to keep it out of the house. Well, today....just about 30 minutes ago he said, "I want to talk to you". So, as we sat outside, listening to/watching the waves, he told me that he thinks he has been drinking too much beer. He said that doing all of this tax stuff he just needs breaks. So, he goes out to the garage to have a beer. Although I have noticed that he is often not at his desk as much in the last couple of days, I didn't really think too much about it. Anyway, he said that he doesn't get a buzz or anything and just likes the taste of beer and needs a "brain break". I suggested that he find another DOC. At the end of the conversation, he was going to go to the store (since he was out of beer). I suggested that he buy the non-alcoholic beer....I mean if he likes the taste, and doesn't get a buzz anyway, then what's the point of drinking alcoholic beer? (THIS I don't understand....lol). He said that the non-alcoholic beer is much more expensive. What, I said,....a few bucks??? Bottom line....he is on the way to the store to buy the non alcoholic beer (and some sour cream). So very interesting....he actually told me he was worried about drinking too much beer (maybe 4 a day?) and that he didn't like it. Felt like he was letting himself down....wow....
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Old 01-26-2014, 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Driver1 View Post
So Im on day One-hundred and teen something. Which measn I've flossed my teeth like 115 days out of 130 (started in earnest about 2 weeks before beer quit date). I've never been a bad flosser. But I just was so tired of tech telling me about this pocket or that pocket in gums. So decided to run grand experiment (hee-hee)....like, ya know, really do what they tell me to do, floss everyday...what will said pockets look like then? (I'm gonna bust these conspirators!)
.
Okay, I'm trying to catch up . . .

But this thing about flossing raises an interesting (to me, at least) question/issue: is there a relationship between committing to give up (or take on) a couple of things at the same time? E.g., "I will floss" and "I won't drink". Do they support one another?

Hmmmm.

Fishy
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Old 01-26-2014, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Driver1 View Post
As this relates to a thought I want to share with you all (coming soon), I propose the following QOTD:

extroverted or introverted? (now know your definitions people!)
Introverted. But job demands otherwise. Again, a ponder: if profession demands something that personality doesn't, what might that have to do with propensity to engage in "alternative behavior" as a compensation?

I can hear it now: "Go away, Fishy!"

Fishy
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Old 01-26-2014, 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Cynderino View Post
I know for me the tie in this to my drinking is that I have always, always put others needs before my own. And I rewarded myself handsomely in wine/beer for those sacrifices. I hated myself at the end of my drinking. Like, look in the mirror and cringe kind of hate. It's hard to undo that kind of damage. Years and years of thinking I am the biggest piece of **** around.
Dang if this doesn't speak to me (and, I suppose, to a lot of us). Do, do, do for others, and then "do" whatever we can to make up for it. Something's wacky there. And I'm still trying to figure it out!

Fishy
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Old 01-26-2014, 03:41 PM
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Too deep for me Fishy.

D
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Old 01-26-2014, 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by DoubleDragons View Post
QOTD: What is your birth order among your siblings? I am eldest of two daughters.
Second of two. I'm 11 years younger than my sister. Effectively, an "only".

Fishy
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Old 01-26-2014, 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted by WhoDey View Post
Great job, Trudging!

My immediate temptation is at the end of a stressful day. The day is over and I'm catching a little quiet time on the couch watching TV. This is when I want to check out even more by drinking. I don't want to enjoy a single drink. I want to mentally unplug and drink to excess. My "Me" time.

In writing that, I know that the drinking wouldn't stop there. The next day I would want to drink earlier ... right after work, say, before the evening activities get under way. Then it would be even earlier in the day on a weekend. You all know the drill.

I used the word "temptation", but that may be a bit strong. The idea crosses my mind (more of a knee jerk reaction to events), but I have zero intention of drinking as I know full well where it will lead.
Yup. The flip side is the "reward" for a successful day. Oh . . . the rationalization we all choose!

Not the best, as I imagine we can all attest!

Fishy
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Old 01-26-2014, 03:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Driver1 View Post
QOTD: favorite band (or four).
Chicago. Journey.

Then a bunch of solo artists with their ensembles: Elton John. Sting. Billy Joel.

Okay, I'm a guy . . . .

On the other hand, Ten Thousand Maniacs!

Fishy
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Old 01-26-2014, 05:28 PM
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Originally Posted by fishoutawatta View Post
Okay, I'm trying to catch up . . .

But this thing about flossing raises an interesting (to me, at least) question/issue: is there a relationship between committing to give up (or take on) a couple of things at the same time? E.g., "I will floss" and "I won't drink". Do they support one another?

Hmmmm.

Fishy
I think I just ended up passing out most nights and was probably lucky to brush my teeth, much less floss. I think a lot of my good habits are just a natural by product of not passing out at night and not feeling like complete crap the next day.
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Old 01-26-2014, 06:32 PM
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Originally Posted by fishoutawatta View Post
Okay, I'm trying to catch up . . .

But this thing about flossing raises an interesting (to me, at least) question/issue: is there a relationship between committing to give up (or take on) a couple of things at the same time? E.g., "I will floss" and "I won't drink". Do they support one another?

Hmmmm.

Fishy
very interesting thought fishy. i guess some would say not to take on more than one new behavior at once. but if one were a setting event for another...hmmm???

in my case, i think it was just happenstance..i think
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Old 01-26-2014, 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted by fishoutawatta View Post
Introverted. But job demands otherwise. Again, a ponder: if profession demands something that personality doesn't, what might that have to do with propensity to engage in "alternative behavior" as a compensation?

I can hear it now: "Go away, Fishy!"

Fishy
lots of variables to take account for fish, but my best guess is that it is a function of "fit". if really poor fit, then probably higher propensity for "alternative behavior", but if just a little uncomfortable, probably good for the person's growth...this could apply for just about anything in life I suppose.
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Old 01-26-2014, 06:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Bilr44 View Post
I think a lot of my good habits are just a natural by product of not passing out at night and not feeling like complete crap the next day.
LOL Bil...you said a mouthful...thanks!
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Old 01-27-2014, 03:54 AM
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Originally Posted by fishoutawatta View Post
Okay, I'm trying to catch up . . .

But this thing about flossing raises an interesting (to me, at least) question/issue: is there a relationship between committing to give up (or take on) a couple of things at the same time? E.g., "I will floss" and "I won't drink". Do they support one another?

Hmmmm.

Fishy
You know, Fishy, I think changing my health habits before I quit drinking really helped me to quit drinking. I posted something to this affect on the Newcomers board one time and I took a lot of flack for it, but frankly, in my case it really helped. Before I quit drinking completely, I stopped drinking Diet Cokes, I started eating a lot more salads and taking a lot of vitamins, and I stopped eating red meat. I upped my exercise output and I started to feel some real benefits to being healthier. I went for a check-up for the first time in years, etc. Truly, I started to feel hypocritical by still drinking (even though I had cut back to weekends only), when I had done all of those other things. Amazingly, even with all of my other changes, it wasn't until I quit drinking that my ulcers felt better and my weight really tumbled off of me.
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Old 01-27-2014, 04:11 AM
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I have had a lot of anxious moments this past week. I like to put on this persona that I am this cool, laid back, chill, full of faith kind of a person, but unfortunately, if I am honest with myself, I am often a mess of nerves. About 15 years ago, when I did a lot of therapy for my family of origin issues, I was put on Paxil for anxiety. I felt really, really good on Paxil. I stayed on it for about 2 years but then I got pregnant with my daughter so I got off of it. When I was on Paxil, I did not drink a lot, but I did gain weight and lost some libido, so I wasn't real eager to get on it again. I think now that a lot of my heavy drinking was self-medicating my natural tendency to anxiety.

I am starting to wonder if I need to get on some anti-anxiety medication again because honestly, I hate how I have been feeling lately and I am fearful if this lasts too long my temptation will be to relieve myself with drinking. (which I know is ridiculous because it only adds to anxiety.) Has anyone taken any anti-anxiety medication that doesn't affect weight gain and libido? When I lose it on those fronts, I get depressed, so taking the meds becomes counterproductive.
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Old 01-27-2014, 04:31 AM
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DD, have you researched Sam-e? It takes about 7-14 days of loading before you feel the benefits but it works for me. I would recommend a brand that is sold in foil wrapping and not one that has loose pills in a bottle. I'll let you read up on that, but it think it loses potency when exposed to heat and light.
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Old 01-27-2014, 04:54 AM
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DD...when I first got sober, I went to a psychiatrist who diagnosed me with pervasive anxiety disorder/depression. Tried MANY different anti-depressants (Effexor, Cymbalta, Celexa,Lexapro, Straterra, Zyban, etc.) Ultimately, I think it was Lexapro that I stuck with for the longest time...and then used Abilify to boost that. I was completely convinced that I drank so much because there was some sort of chemical imbalance that was really resulting in anxiety/depression, so I thought I had found the panacea for my alcoholism....HA! Since I did not want to have to take meds for the rest of my life, I weaned myself off of the drugs and THEN told the psychiatrist. I stayed sober for many years after that, albeit with a valium here or there for panic attacks. I do think that there is some connection in terms of a chemical imbalance in the brain....and drinking....but, not sure if anti-anxiety/depression meds remove the urge to drink, or in some way minimize or compensate for it....just my dos centavos
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Old 01-27-2014, 05:05 AM
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Hi All ... Sorry for being out of pocket for a while.

I have certainly been adopting healthy habits to accompany my sobriety. It has been a great benefit to be focused on healthy living rather than on just not drinking.

DD ... Last week I mentioned the story on Elizabeth Vargus. She mentioned that coping with anxiety (which she dealt with since childhood) was the root cause of her drinking. In the story, she didn't say how she was now coping with anxiety other than saying that she was having to find alternatives to drinking.

Cold, cold, cold in this corner of paradise. I can't wait until spring gets here! Forecasts are calling for a temp of -10 tomorrow morning with windchills far below that. Great ... and I have a 3-day work retreat to go to beginning tomorrow morning!

Carry on Tobers. Even if I don't post, I do follow as best I can all your adventures. Let's keep this bus rolling right into February!
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