gonzo4419

Morning all, just a quick check in. Been really busy with work getting near end of the season and doing hockey pools, plus watching lots of hockey, love that it's back.

Hope everyone is having a good week.

Marria

Alice thank you SO much for your extremely comprehensive and helpful post re: puppies and dogs. It's given me a lot to think about before I finally take the leap into becoming a dog-owner. You covered so many angles and I had actually thought of borrowing a friend's dog for a while so that seems like a great idea. I have hesitated for years to be honest as I want to be sure I can do it well. I hate seeing people regret it once the cute stage is over or as you pointed out not being consistent with the training. You obviously love dogs and your advice was so practical and intelligent!!

Tam your photos of your dog are lovely! Thank you very much for your encouragement, I feel much more confident about it, the love and loyalty would be such a treat...'man's best friend' must be right after all.

tazzle

Marria, a pet is a commitment 24/7. But for what its worth, I cannot imagine life with out my dogs. they have been so comforting and give such absolute love, and really ask so little in return.

Tamerua

LOL I'm laughing about Alice's list and Taz's lots of responsibility and I'm like, meh. They're easy. Alice and Taz are more accurate than I am. Don't listen to me. Except for the fact that they do love the heck out of you. Then there are cats who require very little. But once you get a good snugly one, that will be your best friend.

courage2

Re: pets. My only pets in adult life have been reptiles: snakes, geckos, frogs. And fish, but they're more moving decorations. But I enjoy everyone's dog-tales!

AliceTW

"Hubby doesn't respond much when I talk to him about missing them and my dreams. May be a "guy" thing, I dont know so I feel really alone in this area."

Taz, I find this with my partner (and most men that I've known closely). To be honest, the "Quiet" book I was talking about the other day actually made sense of my partner's quietness a fair bit. Made me understand why he's quiet with me when I talk about things that are important to me.

Tam - bad luck about the autoimmune problem How is the eye going now? What a beautiful girl! I love the shape of her head and nose. I do love hounds What a funny mix - greyhound and border collie! I love, love border collies - so smart! And I also adore sight hounds (I have an Irish Wolfhound). it's funny though, because sight hounds are so lazy and chillaxed, where the border collies are so active and clever. Is she very active? My wolfie likes to sleep - he will go for a run at the dog park but after half an hour be laying down.

Marria - your welcome for the post It's a bit sad by most of my friends who have been dog-owners have gotten rid of their dogs One really upsets me, because she gets a puppy, never spends time with it, then gets rid of it once it's older because "he's too rough around the kids". Argh. Then she gets another puppy, and the same thing happens... three times now. I told her outright "You need to stop getting dogs until the kids are in double figures", though it's not actually the kid's that are the problem at all - plenty of people have young kids and dogs... Another friend got a puppy with her boyfriend... before long they were married and pregnant and so she couldn't do a lot of training with the puppy, they were busy being in love and getting ready for a new family. The kids came, the dog (a jack russelxborder collie) wasn't getting walks, was destroying the yard, the kid's toys, running away and not coming back (only chance it got to stretch its legs properly)... so they've finally re-homed him, but after years of this dog being pretty much constantly yelled at for being "naughty". He's an old dog now, grey around the muzzle. Lost his youth in a backyard. Then another friend at work who got a cute King Charles Spaniel puppy on a whim... 6 months later "he chews everything, he sheds and the house is never clean, my daughter and husband never bath him or pick up after him so I have to do everything"... so now that little man is in a new home (with her retired parents thankfully, so they have loads of time). Phew. Sorry I get a bit ranty about animals, it's the one big issue that tugs at the heart strings.

Tam - I reckon adult dogs are easy. Puppies are hard work.

Warning: Crazy cat lady rant
I was going to suggest a cat also btw! They are easy, not much work at all, in comparison. My cat is a ginger boy, and an indoor cat. He probably brings me the most happiness out of everything in my life. Is that sad? haha! When I get home from work he is waiting in the front window for me. When the car pulls up he stands up and starts meowing and rubbing against the window until I get out of the car and head to the front door. When I get inside he greets me at the door with a meow, and purrs his little brain out for a good 15 minutes like "I can't believe you're home, I thought you were never coming back this time!". He is a sweet heart We have a routine where I get in from work then go to the bedroom and the cat jumps on the bed for a pat and cuddle, before I go feed him. He is so happy that his tongue pokes out like a dork from too much purring haha! And even if I feed him straight away when I get home before I go to the bedroom to change out of work clothes he will still eat a mouthful of food, and then charge to the end of the house for his hugs (so it's nice that he's not loving me just for my ability to distribute crunchies). He's not a lap cat, but for the entire time I am in the house I am the centre of his universe - he's in his basket next to the computer right now, easy petting distance. If I got up to go to the loo he would be waiting for me by the door when I got out. If I watch TV he sleeps either on top of the couch, or on the fold out foot rest. If I'm in the kitchen he's there. I don't close the door to the bathroom when I shower, because the fan isn't great and it fogs out the mirror, and I can see his little orange outline through the shower glass, sitting on the bathroom matt or in the bathtub just waiting for me to come out. He is honestly the most amazing animal. I got him as an adult too, so it wasn't even a bonding thing from kitten hood, he's just a great cat. He's strictly indoor only (I think my neighbour's outdoor cat has FIV which is spread through fighting), but I think it makes him more affectionate that he's inside all the time. My old cat was an outdoor/indoor cat and she liked attention, but it was on her terms.

Ok, crazy cat lady out - stop looking at me that way haha!

SoberMarathon

Hi class of December 2012. I joined this class, which was my first on SR, 10 months ago. I relapsed within 9-10 days and fell off SR. I joined again in June, July, and the October classes. I am devastated. I have been seeking sobriety for nearly a year (probably longer) but can't seem to keep it together. My longest stint is 70+ days but I fell hard this past week and am now picking up the pieces. Today is Day 2 which is really hard to fathom after doing so well for a while. I think I need more support and am therefore reaching out for it. If anyone can help me make this stick this time, I'll be forever grateful. If I don't make it last, I will likely die or lose everything, or both. I have no more room for relapsing. This time, the guilt and withdrawal have beaten the crap out of me. I'm at home now when I should be at work. I'm on SR when I should be productive. Thing is, I need to fix myself and make myself better before I can function again.

Sorry for the rant. Any advice on avoiding relapse and maintaining sobriety from you guys would be great. I am envious I am no longer part of this class - 2013 would have been a different year had I been sober. Instead, I have struggled at home and work, fell downstairs and cut my forehead open, lost a watch, misplaced my ID, lost my belt, forgot my hotel room number, embarrassed myself, done walks of shame after staying out all night, slept through work meetings, had to start taking blood pressure meds, and more, and more. All of this in exchange for booze. Well - never again. Just need more help to ensure this is the case.


Thanks:-)

courage2

SoberMarathon, welcome back! Any Decembrist (and any other struggling alcoholic/drug user) is welcome here any time!

What else are you using for support besides SR? I think a lot of people find that something face-to-face on a regular basis helps. I'm in AA -- I'm not gung-ho for all aspects of the AA program, but going to meetings regularly and often has certainly helped me stay sober. Others get/have gotten counseling or have other kinds of support outside SR.

I completely support you on that! Don't delude yourself on how fast you'll be functioning the way you wish you could. For me, even after the first withdrawals it was really hard to focus on anything EXCEPT staying sober for a long time -- like 6-7 months. Give yourself time and space to recover.

• Avoid people, places, & things that make you want to drink.
• Eat well, rest a lot, and seek out supportive people to talk to and vent with when needed.
• Get yourself some sober routines, like meditating in the a.m., or posting regularly to SR at a certain time of day, and don't let yourself off the hook with them -- if you see yourself slipping in your sober routines, that may be the sign of a relapse coming.

Last thing: You really have to want it. You have to be willing to do stuff you don't like or fear, because you completely accept that the alternative (drinking) is far worse.

Hope something here helps you out! Post here again soon, ok buddy?

SoberMarathon

Thanks courage2! Lots of great advice here.

Here's a few answers:
1) I have tried AA and actually called an unofficial sponsor yesterday. Like many I'm not crazy about the higher power component and references to God. Still, I agree that the face:face stuff really helps.

2) I'm a bit of a nerd and I plotted my relapses today as a graph. I've had 5 attempts at sobriety during the past 10 months and my longest sobriety was during my last attempt, 2.5 months. Interestingly, 4/5 relapses could be directly connected with a social event with either co-workers or collaborators. So the easy solution would just be to avoid all such social occasions. The problem is I can't - it would be very bad for my career and just unavoidable in some circumstances. Still, the relapses are bad for my career also. Therefore, I need to figure out how to make it through these very specific situations. Also worth noting, 3/4 of these work-related relapses didn't involve a night of heavy drinking, just 1-2 drinks in moderation. However, they opened the flood gates to subsequent benders and repeating the cycle. Triggers are nearly identical each and every time. What to do that will work each and every time?

3) I like routines, like running, stretching, etc. Maybe I need to post on SR every day at 5pm or text/call someone in my support circle. During my last sobriety stretch I found myself using SR less and less since I was feeling 'cured'. The same has gone for AA - couple of meetings in succession, feel better, assume I'm cured, relapse.

Let me know what you think of all of this nonsense!

Marria

SoberMarathon, I joined SR in April 2011 and I joined many different classes on and off for a year and 8 months until I FINALLY joined this class in Dec 2012 and have stayed the course this time thank god!

I suppose I have lots of advice and ideas to share with you.
First of all I completely believe that you CAN get sober and stay sober.
Think about that....a complete stranger online believes that you can do this! Why? Because even though our personal lives and stories are different we have the same illness and this illness does not have to be terminal.
Alcoholism makes us crazy, it makes us think we can never be free, it makes us believe we are not even ill at all. But the craziness CAN stop as long as we never give up on ourselves. Keep trying SoberMarathon. That was the key for me. Despite feeling weak and pathetic, despite the lies inside my head battling with the truth of my alcoholism I kept coming back here and I also went to AA meetings. Going to AA was a huge step forward as I felt so ashamed but it forced me to fully and genuinely accept my addiction. Even then It took me 6 months of regular AA and SR for my sobriety to really click into place.

I'm a very private person so it was only when I felt I was on more solid ground that I eventually opened up to a few close friends and family about my struggles. All were shocked and most, but not all, were very supportive.
My faith has helped me a lot too and I definitely believe in a Higher Power. That said I don't go to AA anymore as I didn't want to do the steps and so I didn't want to be a half- hearted member just picking and choosing what I wanted and not getting more involved in service etc.

Another thing I did was to look back at classes I had joined on SR and follow some posts of class members who had stayed sober. It's a bit like you coming back here to catch up except I lurked! It really helped me to read the progress and success of others and I would encourage you to go back over old posts of Sr members who are staying sober. It was the evidence and encouragement that I needed to keep on believing in a different way of living.

I have the same ups and downs now but I can cope so much better. In my happy moments I truly feel blessed and In my sad moments I know they will pass and I don't have to look to a bottle of wine for comfort.

Thinking of you and call in here anytime!

SoberMarathon

Thanks for some great insight Marria! I'm leaning on SR at the moment, as well a few friends, and occasionally someone from AA. As mentioned in my earlier post, my main problem seems to be the source of relapsing - I fail to completely abstain in certain social settings which are almost always work functions and then I'm back at it for an inconsistent amount of time before quitting again. I absolutely know this trigger now, it is clear and simple. Each and every time such an evening arises, I need to go in with two loaded guns and anyone who offers me a drink will have to look down the barrel. It's not their fault, it's mine but it just has to be that way. I have no desire to drink - that has waned completely. Now I just want sobriety, redemption, good health, and a sharp mind all of which depend on the first, that is sobriety.

It was helpful to hear that it also took you a few attempts to get it right. This time it's so obvious I need to get it right - I have no other choice.

Thanks again and nice chatting with you :-)

courage2

SoberMarathon -- well, sounds like you know that you can't drink in moderation.

I do suggest that you consider either counseling, going back to AA, or some other regular "live" support. Checking in with my sponsor every day, my (incredibly irritating) commitment to make coffee once a week, and a couple of personal contacts have more than once been the factor that has kept me from buying that first drink of a relapse -- I have literally had the thought "but I can't drink tonight, because I have to be there to make coffee Wednesday & I can face them counting days again" and that has made me pause long enough for the urge to pass.

As for those business occasions -- here's some tools I have used at conferences (which are hellish triggers for me):
1) suck on lifesavers -- lifesavers saved me, esp. on planes
2) eat something, preferably something sweet and fatty, right before an occasion where there will be social drinking
3) arrive early and have your glass of tonic with lime already served when others arrive
4) have an excuse prepared well in advance to leave early -- and use it -- just get out of there when you need to, you've made the face time
5) excuse yourself from the table (whereever) to use the restroom (whatever) and call/text people for immediate support, as often as you need to. I went to a conference when I had 2 months and called people in AA from the potties like every hour.
6) when traveling, have the hotel empty the minibar before you arrive -- if they forget, insist they empty it immediately
7) OK this is bad advice, but do you have another, less harmful "vice"? Like a trashcan you can let open up a little bit while you're nailing down the lid on your alcoholism? I started smoking. Again, I don't recommend this for a longterm solution. But it got me through some bad hours.

tazzle

Okay put a fork in me, I'm done. Do not want to be at work anymore and the clock has been at 3:00 for at least an hour. Productivity and motivation are shot to heck. If I have to make any life altering decisions. Well than we're all doomed. I bought more decorations at the dollar store and I WANT to go home ! Work sucks.....

courage2

Tazzle -- I'm shot, too. Hope you get a good restful weekend!

Marria -- forgot to say earlier, great post & great attitude!

tazzle

Oh and hyper boss just showed up this day just got better.

Dee74

Hope everyone has a great weekend

D

AliceTW

Sober Marathon - Welcome You are certainly not alone in your attempts (or your nerdy love of charts *grin*).

I was one of those "quitting is easy - I do it twice a week!" people. Lots of false starts, lots of "Why can't I just STOP". Lots of mornings where the first things I did were: Check to see if my partner was asleep on the couch, or if he'd left. Check to see if the car was in the drive way - check to see where the keys were (a good indicator of whether or not I drove it). Check to see how many beers were left in the fridge. Check the phone records to see what I said to people/who I'd called and at what time. Then it was the shower checklist - standing in the shower, head against the wall, thinking "Who was I around last night? Who do I have to apologise to? What was the last thing I remember? How long was I at the pub/around people during my black out? Why can't I just stop? I just need to stop. Never again, not today. Never again". Then by midday I've seen enough people at work to know that I've not completely destroyed my reputation - so maybe I wasn't really THAT bad. By afternoon "I will just have a few drinks, see the people I was with last night to make sure that they don't hate me for whatever I might have done in my black out. I'll just have a few, then go home. I won't have dinner first, because that way I'll leave at dinner time. I'll have a few so they know everything's OK and that I'm not ashamed of myself for last night". Of course that would end in me getting wildly drunk on an empty stomach and just repeating the process (over and over and over and...)

On it went, I started trying to quit about 5 or 6 years ago. I had varying success rates - in the start I could not go more than three days. My drinking didn't amp up until I was in my mid 20s - about the same time that my career started going somewhere. I had a lot of stress, a lot of money, and a lot of alcohol. At 28 I was on high blood pressure meds. I was able to quit for about 5 months during that time - at the end of the 3rd month I was off the blood pressure medication. I started drinking again because of a work function. I didn't want people to think I was an alcoholic, so I had better have a drink. Hooray for that logic?!

I also felt like "quitting was easy! Five months - easy. I can absolutely drink socially on weekends or at functions if I can go for 5 months". Before long I was back to the usual, and then I was worse. Black out drunk almost daily. Drinking alone because I had that reverse tolerance, where I was slurring after only 6 or 8 drinks. I started drinking during the drive home from work, because it was otherwise just wasted opportunity to be drinking.

I ended up quitting my job. I recognised that it was a big source of stress. The money wasn't that good. I was working for an awful company, though, and it was incredibly damaging to my self esteem, work ethic, sanity. I quit, moved and took a job that paid about 20k a year less than my last one, but without hardly any responsibility. No stress, finish the day and then go home - work stays at work. Only 40 hours a week. Beautiful. I've been focussing on getting healthier - quitting drinking, getting more active, losing weight, eating properly. It feels like a bit of a gamble for my career - I'm still in the same industry but in a position without any seniority, and it has been a source of anxiety. But on the whole I know it's a good thing. It's also opened up some other opportunities too - I'm thinking of spending a year working abroad, either doing the teaching English in Japan thing, or going on a volunteering stint for 12-18 months. These are things I couldn't do when I was busy crawling up the corporate ladder.

Not that quitting your job is the solution of course - I happened to be in a job where sobriety and sanity were impossible, but that was the company I was working for, not the role itself. Interestingly they have not been able to keep that position filled for more than a couple months since I quit. I also kept drinking for about 6 or 8 months after quitting and starting the new, less stressful job. Quitting wasn't a magic bullet.

I have found, though, that people don't really care that you're not drinking. At first it can be uncomfortable for people who know you well if you're sober or drinking soda water while they are drinking alcohol. But it's not the end of the world. Most of the people who "care" if you're drinking are the ones who have problems themselves and hate the idea of being the only one drinking, or feel judged by being around a sober person. When I was going through my 5 months sobriety there were a few situations where I convinced myself that it would be vocational suicide not to go out and meet with the visiting VIPs or rub shoulders with this boss or that colleague. That if I hadn't gone out and drunk with them it would reflect badly on me. I was pretty much full of crap and just looking for excuses to drink. I skipped the first time, expecting the world to come crashing down. It didn't. The next time I went out and had soda water. Did the rounds, shook hands, spoke to everyone that needed to be spoken to. Then after everyone was settled in to their conversations (and their own drinks) I excused myself and went home. I also found that there were more sober people than I realised at those functions - in fact almost all of them. And that I drank way quicker than the rest... while sober I would watch people nurse the same drink for an hour or sometimes more. In that time I'd be on my 4th or 5th. So by the end of the night I would have been smashed, but the other people were only just approaching tipsy.

Also there were a few functions where I lived close by, so I was able to go at the start, shake hands, etc, then go home. Then come back again after a couple hours and do the rounds again. Then the next day no one realised I'd spent most of the night at home and just assumed I'd been there the whole time. I tried to be casual but make some sort of intelligent conversation so they remembered me as relaxed and smart, not uptight and quiet (while contemplating how much I wanted to be drinking or at home or etc).

Can you do something during your work functions to make yourself see them as work, not play? Keep your tie on, or wear a different pair of shoes? Start wearing a ring that is your 'on the clock' ring - if it's on, then you're in work mode, if it's off it's free time.

Regarding support networks etc - I quit without AA. I spoke to my GP and he put me on some medicines that helped with withdrawal and cravings, while I saw a psychologist every few weeks as my face to face support. It's more expensive than AA I guess, where your face to face accountability is another member, but it worked for me. My shrink has been instrumental in my sobriety, he's amazing. I believe the medicine made a huge difference for me also, but it's not a magic pill or anything. It never stopped the cravings, just helped me keep a more clear head during them.

Good luck, glad to see you here.

Dee74

time for new thread guys:

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...-part-9-a.html