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Class of June 2011 Part 10

Old 09-16-2011, 02:25 PM
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A friend of mine said "you make it look so easy". Yeah, well don't judge a book by the cover! I told her it was what's inside that tortured me, what people can't see.
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Old 09-16-2011, 02:29 PM
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Stream I love your boat. I am sure it will inspire others at the club. Your comments about not going got me thinking about what alcohol has cost me. Yes I have had fun, it has helped me relax etc. I have got to a stage where being in a social situations with alcohol can be a difficulty because alcohol can start calling the shots. To me this all comes back to the first three of the 12 steps.
  1. We admitted we were powerless over alcohol—that our lives had become unmanageable.
  2. Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.
  3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him

I have spent, I was going to say most but in truth all of my adult life in an ambivalent relationship with alcohol. For the majority of that time it was great fun but that ended a long time ago. I have to thank Neil Sedaka for informing me that Breaking up is Hard to do. He is right.

My wife drinks, she is normal. For her this means a glass or two of wine once or twice a week, at most. We have been married over 20 years..........get this...............I have never seen her intoxicated. This happens because she stops when when the buzz hits. She does not like the feeling of the buzz....... that is normal.

I have always liked the buzz. I have always wanted to keep it going, or push it up a notch. I would still like the buzz if I drank.

As you all know I do not go to AA however I have come to the realisation that for me there is something important in what those three steps are about. I think they lead to a place where Mariano is.
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Old 09-16-2011, 03:02 PM
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Instant - you have such kind words to say to all of us. I have to start looking into the 12 steps, because even though my outlook is positive, I'm still having my moments where I just want to scream. I know it can be normal, but I would love for that to go away for good. I hope it does some day!

And your wife....oh how all of us wish we could be like that. I've always felt wine is meant to be enjoyed and appreciated (I'm not a wine drinker). I know if I got into wine, I'd get into the whole bottle to find that buzz and keep it. Maybe when I'm a little old lady I will love a glass of wine and laugh about these days, and think "what the hell was I thinking?". 20 years - that's super. Many more to come.

Hugs to you!
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Old 09-16-2011, 03:33 PM
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Beulah shouldn't you be in bed? It' s 8am here on Saturday morning. I am sitting on the deck with a cup of tea !!

Regarding my wife I do not think people like us can ever be people like them. It's biological. I think it is like believing that if we wanted it enough or tried hard enough or were "good" enough we could change the shape of our eyes. Most of us here have tried to alter our behaviour and not been satisfied with the results (unmanageable).

I believe that I am hard wired to enjoy the buzz (powerlessness). This capacity is linked to the tendency to develop cravings once drinking has started (powerlessness). The cravings have "mindsets" associated with them that promote drinking and undermine abstinence. These things are beyond my control. I can fight the AV but I cannot shut him up at will.

I honestly do not want to be like my wife with regard to drinking. This is what is wrong with me, that has led me to my life being unmanageable. The thing is still there but hasn't been fed for so long either by me fantasising or using he has grown weak.

He is however stalking me like a tiger in the jungle. Hand me my pith helmet, and I will shoot the beast onsight !!
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Old 09-16-2011, 03:38 PM
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Hi friends. More great posts thank you all so much.

Im feeling sort of quiet and peaceful. Happy to say that I felt ok all day today - its such a relief to feel "normal" or, well, just not ill or wierd. If this continues I feel I will be very very happy soon. Just to wake up having a decent amount of energy and feel able to tackle whatever comes along will do me fine. Im almost reluctant to say it in case its not happening but I am feeling that the depression is lifting at last.

Whilst I was feeling really rotten with the depression, my life seemed as unmanageable as it was when I was drinking, however I still did not drink nor, amazingly, did I want to. Now (hopefully) im through it I cant imagine wanting to drink again and go back through choice to being in that state. I am under no illusion that I can have one or two drinks and get away with it, nor would there be any point in that. I can only put this down to the fact that I spent a number of weeks working on the first 3 steps which Instant listed above - the acceptance steps. I wouldnt have been able to do this as thoroughly without the guidance of my sponsor. Its all in the big book but its not stuff I would have got by just reading it.
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Old 09-16-2011, 04:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Pumpkin Soup View Post
Hi friends. More great posts thank you all so much.

Im feeling sort of quiet and peaceful. Happy to say that I felt ok all day today - its such a relief to feel "normal" or, well, just not ill or wierd. If this continues I feel I will be very very happy soon. Just to wake up having a decent amount of energy and feel able to tackle whatever comes along will do me fine. Im almost reluctant to say it in case its not happening but I am feeling that the depression is lifting at last.

Now (hopefully) im through it I cant imagine wanting to drink again and go back through choice to being in that state. I am under no illusion that I can have one or two drinks and get away with it, nor would there be any point in that. I can only put this down to the fact that I spent a number of weeks working on the first 3 steps which Instant listed above - the acceptance steps. I wouldnt have been able to do this as thoroughly without the guidance of my sponsor. Its all in the big book but its not stuff I would have got by just reading it.
Pumpkin, I am so happy to hear this good news. I was confident Prozac will eventually lift your depression. I hope and think that in the next few days you will be improving further and begin to feel great. At least, that was what happened to me. Congratulations for your patience.

I think Instant made a good point about "Buzz". Yes, we alcoholics like that buzz. That makes the difference with normal drinkers, who don't seek that buzz.

I am 155 days sober now and 75 days without tobacco. I believe that eventually the withdrawal syndrom of tobacco is going away, so I feel wonderful.

I have drunk during all my adult life (and now I am 46). Previously, the longest period I have had was 10-15 days without alcohol. During the last five or six years I attempted weekly to quit drinking, without success. I was not a daily drinker. I am shocked of how I have improved physically, psychologically, mentally, emotionally… Really shocked, believe me. Sobriety is now the most precious gift I have, my most prized jewel. I cannot describe with words this wonderful gift, and even less in English.

An amazing new world, full of luminous beauty, is appearing before my astonished eyes.

I know that nobody learns from the experience of others, but I would wish to shout to everybody –in particular to those suffering difficulties—that this journey is worthwhile. In only a few months, life will change dramatically. Depression will be replaced by happiness, fear by peace, anger by love, darkness by light… At least, that is my experience.

Living sober, can you imagine? No more hangovers, no more remorse and guilt, no more cravings. Freedom.

This new life is awaiting for everybody, only a few months ahead. I am thinking in particular in those who are suffering a hard time, and in those who no longer post here: Chimp, Sweetnovember, DTracy, Violet… Are you OK? If you are suffering, let us know.

In only a few months, the miracle can happen… It is worthwhile, believe me. And I will tell a secret: I found that being sober is easier than I imagined. If I’d know that 15 years ago…

Please, don’t yearn drinking: for alcoholics the true gift is sobriety. Don’t be deceived by the false promises of alcohol. We know alcohol is a liar, and a killer as well.
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Old 09-16-2011, 05:17 PM
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I "should" be getting on with my day. I am going to paint the bathroom and room that is attached to my workshop. I have it all cleared and prepped up. I am thinking about this discussion, and wanted to chime in again. The big book refers to the "obsession" with drinking, which at times I have equated with craving and at other times what I think of as "the struggle". The struggle is worse than the direct effects of drinking. It is the times we are wresting with Dee's bear, or me plotting and planning to trap and tame the tiger. It used to take up a large part of my day and consisted of thinking to get the best out of my drinking experience, and plan my survival and getting it right..............eg like

should I or shouldn't I
Can I or can't I
what if I only
what if
what else can I try
why can't I just

All associated with the soothing licks of the tiger- you're not like the others, You're not that bad, we can make it work, remember the good times, you like it, it's OK etc etc

Once I accepted that this torment will never change (not next week, not next year, not in 20 years ie never , no matter what I do (unmanageable), and no matter how much I want it to, or how clever or intelligent or high functioning I am.........then the path to freedom is in front of me and I find I am relieved of suffering.
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Old 09-16-2011, 05:34 PM
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Instant....ha, ha...no, not in bed. It's only 8:34 p.m. here in Michigan.

Have a wonderful night every one.
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Old 09-16-2011, 06:05 PM
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I know I sound like a broken record. I'm sad. I drank. I'm sorry. I'm sad. I drank. I'm sorry. I'm sad. I drank. I'm sorry.
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Old 09-16-2011, 06:13 PM
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Bblackbird, I'm sorry to hear that:

"I'm sad. I drank. I'm sorry. I'm sad. I drank. I'm sorry. I'm sad. I drank. I'm sorry".

Alcohol is a depressant, so drinking makes you feel sad and sorry. If you break the vicious circle, probably you will begin to feel less sad and less sorry... the "broken record".

You are in my prayers. I send you a big hug. Take care. There is a lot of life out there awaiting for you getting sober.
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Old 09-16-2011, 06:16 PM
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Blackbird - we love you kiddo. No more drinks tonight, and tomorrow will be a new day. Love to you. And a big hug, as well.
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Old 09-16-2011, 06:51 PM
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I'm with the others BBF - you can break this cycle and I truly believe you will

Sorry for my relative silence guys - I have a badly cricked neck - it's not exactly conducive to sitting at the PC right now.

I hope everyone had a sober and happy weekend - back in a day a two

D
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Old 09-16-2011, 07:54 PM
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BBF - sorry to hear you're feeling low. We're here for you. Hope you're okay.

Dee - Hope you're feeling better. Get some rest over the weekend!
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Old 09-17-2011, 12:56 AM
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Hey Dee hope your neck gets better. We need you to keep us in line, and bring us around from time to time.

Katie. what do you think is holding you back apart from the relationship? Drinking will ease the pain for a while, but will extract a heavy price on your self esteem ? Take care. I pray you may gain strength.
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Old 09-17-2011, 02:56 AM
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Sorry about your neck Dee - I get that from time to time its so annoying. I havent had it for a long time now as the last time I had problems I saw an Osteopath and it was wonderful - I wish I could afford to go every week I came out feeling like I was floating but most importantly it sorted my neck and back problem.

Kate hun I feel for you. I am having to get used to seeing people going back to the drink in AA as well as in here. It happens. It is so hard to tackle such a huge thing as alcoholism when you have other major problems in your life as well but we all know that alcohol will only make things worse. The difficult thing to do is to get out of the self harming, not caring about yourself, mode that brings on the "F*** it" moments when you just dont care about the consquences and need the quick release it gives you at that moment in time. The cravings can be beaten, the problems will still be there, but you will be better able to cope with them. Unfortunately getting over alcohol addiction takes a long time and a lot of work so its such a vicious circle. If I knew how I was going to be feeling the past couple of months when I first stopped drinking it might have put me off - I am a very weak willed person and if im feeling ill or down I really struggle to see the light at the end of the tunnel. However, I dont and didnt want to die and somehow I have got through to where I am now. Katie if I can do it you can too. You are much younger and probably have better health - if you can get medical help for depression and some face to face support to tackle the drinking it will help you immensely. I would suggest you try therapy or AA to get you through these dark times. Therapy probably has a money issue attached to it but AA is free and available everywhere every day. Why not give it a go. Not only does it help with the drink problem but you will make new friends and people who will want to listen to you and talk about your problems and help you. Like Buelah I wish I could give you a big hug. AA's arms are always open wide and as I cant help you in person I think it might be a good thing for you to try. If nothing else it will give you a distraction and something else to think about for an hour or so. If you have any meetings near to you would you consider attending?

Mariano I always love what you have to say - we need someone in here who is a good strong example of happy healthy sobriety and you are that person. I wish I could wind the clock forward for those who are struggling and still feel they would "like" to be able to drink - to get through the darkest early days and get to where you are - seeing the miracle happen and feeling the benefits and being truly happy and no longer wanting to drink. I am definatley getting there but it hasnt been easy - however it is getting easier. I still have alot of wreckage from my past to clear up but at last feel like I can make a start and make the lives of those around me so much better and help others who have been or still are where I was, trapped in alcoholism. It is an invisable prison, only you can set yourself free, find your key and use it and work it every day to maintain it. I still have a lot of work to do to get to the point of being "recovered" like it says in the big book, however I already feel free - so much freedom from those chains. Just to be able to drive whenever I need to is a quick simple example of this but it is also much deeper in many ways.

TP I forgot to thank you for the wonderful words you told us about back at top of page 1 of this thread. Im going back now to read them again.

Bratnik when you are back I had a hell of a dream last night for you to analyse for me. Im pretty sure I can work out what its about but would love to hear what you have to say about it.

Love to everyone and a happy and healthy sober weekend! I will be around alot today I have nothing to do except my step 4 work, lots of housework and paperwork. Ill be checking in regularly which I love to be able to do. You guys help lift me so much you are my invisible but very very important close friends and I cant imagine being without any of you now.
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Old 09-17-2011, 05:39 AM
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Warren I can see where you are coming from and I thought exactly like you too until I realised that I HAD to give it up 100% because it was damaging me. If I could get that buzz or release the booze used to give me and know it would not cause harm I would definately take it whatever way I could but for me I know that is not possible and going back there will be disastrous. I am sure there will be times when I think I wish I could join others that are drinking and having fun and relaxing but for me thats just not an option anymore unless I want to suffer the consequences.

If you have a problem with alcohol it is very likely it will get worse unless you stop 100%

Some of us have to reach a very serious low rock bottom to be able to accept this.

I got as low as I personally think I could cope with. I wish I had stopped earlier but cest la vie - it is what it is and I have no choice but to accept this unless I want to live in constant misery.

I dont think AA preach that alcohol is bad or evil they just tell it how it is - if you are an alcoholic then it is bad and evil and it will kill you eventually unless you give it up.

At the end of the day moderation is not an option if you are truly alcoholic but if you are not convinced of that fact then you keep going until you are aware and do something about it or it kills you or takes away everythihg you hold precious.

I may be wrong but I personally dont believe there is a middle ground if you are an alcoholic. I do believe that some people who are not alcoholic may have problems through alcohol from time to time its almost like a rite of passage these days but those people will leave it behind and not have to think about it. If you are thinking about alcohol alot then it would suggest you have a problem with it. Unfortunately usually it takes us all a very long time and to some very dark places before we can fully accept this, especially if the "problem" is not that bad YET. We pretty much all have to learn the hard way I guess it perhaps depends on how low we are able to let it take us.
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Old 09-17-2011, 05:50 AM
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Classical - I understand what you are saying as that is the thought that has been running through my mind. I do agree it's not evil, but my mind is just messing with me on this. So, I can't even consider a lifestyle of social drinking. I know I'm an alcoholic. If I wasn't I would be struggling so much lately with the idea of drinking.

I'm almost at a level of confusion with this right now. I read Mariano's posts, and I just think what a wonderful way to look at it. Be free of this - stop the cycle. What is so important about having a drink even socially? I can't afford to have that thought run through my head right now as it just messes with me.

I may take a break from the thread for a while to regroup my thoughts about all this, do some reading as my books just arrived from Amazon - "A Woman's Way through the Twelve Steps", "Stupid Things that Mess up Recovery", and "Twenty Four Hours a Day" (daily meditations).

This may help to give me a better understanding of where I need to go with all this, how to go about doing it, and then coming back to the thread with some fresh thoughts and fresh eyes. I won't fall out completely, I think I just need a little time to get myself back on track.

Every one enjoy the rest of your weekend. Hugs and love.
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Old 09-17-2011, 06:50 AM
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Buelah I will miss you if you go. If that is what you feel you need to do to help you then you must do what you feel is right. Please come back soon and I wish you much love and success. I hope my posts havent put you off I can probably be a bit gung ho but it is just the way I see things from what I have learnt - its not necessarily right or applicable to everyeone. We all need all the help we can get right?

Please dont be a stranger for long. xx
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Old 09-17-2011, 07:14 AM
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Pumpkin - nothing was done or said by any one to put me off. Just my own little battle right now. Some thoughts are just adding to my "confused" state of mind. And I know it all has to do with my personality and how I over evaluate things, and my alcoholic brain messing with me. I have to gain better control over my thought process and practice what I preach. Besides, gung ho is good!
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Old 09-17-2011, 07:21 AM
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Confusion is a very big part of it I think. This eased for me once I made that all or nothing decision. I remember during one of my attempts to give up, I was going to AA but not following the programme as I am now, I gave in to the craving for a drink - I had a pint with friends. Nothing bad happened although it did turn into more than one pint but I didnt get drunk. I did however feel very confused by it all. I didnt think I should go back to day 1 as I hadnt got drunk. I wanted my cake and eat it perhaps. More likely I just hadnt got to proper full acceptance yet. I believe you really need this to succeed and you need to want it and then you need to work at it IMO.
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