FatallyUncool

I'm working step 3. I am trying to get with the HP thing, but to be completely honest, I'm not really buying into it. I am willing to try something new but I don't really believe in a concept of higher power. I have read, wrote and talked this subject to death. My sponsor has been incredibly patient.

I don't have any issue with what others believe, and if that works for you, I think it's fantastic. But I believe coincidences are just coincidences, I finally quit using because I decided to, NA is wonderful but it is just an organization of addicts helping addicts and a great set of tools and principles and support. I take responsibility for the good and bad decisions I've made in my life.

If there is a higher power taking care of me, why has he let bad things happen in the past and more importantly, why does he/she/it let REALLY bad things happen to some people? Relatively speaking, my life has been pretty easy.

Faking it til I make it feels dishonest, so does adopting someone else's higher power. Believing that you or someone else believes is fine but that's not the same as me believing. Same with reading and talking to people and picking out something to be my HP.

I know some things are more powerful than me, (nature, the ocean, love, my home group, the universe) but I don't understand how to turn over my will to it or how it will take care of me or remove my character defects.

It wouldn't be a problem except I like NA and my home group and I think it has been very positive for me. This feels like a deal breaker but I'm not giving up.

FatallyUncool

I know this sounds stubborn and I'm not trying to be difficult, I'm really struggling with this.

My interpretation of a lot of people's HP has to do with attitude. If someone believes that their HP will make sure things will work out for the best, to me that is the same as having a positive attitude. Surprise, but I can be a pretty negative person, so positivity is a higher power that I can possibly get on board with.

I do feel spiritual sometimes, like hiking or looking at the stars or listening to music or witnessing someone's kindness or generosity. I'm just having a hard time converting this to the HP concept in the steps. And I think too much, but when I follow my feelings, it just feels like something is missing.

I try to be grateful, but that's hard for me too. I am grateful for a lot of things, even though sometimes I don't feel it.

I hope I haven't offended anybody, I certainly respect all beliefs and I'm glad I have this opportunity to post honestly about this, regardless of the responses.

legna

I could have written this some years ago.

I have actually found an answer to this question from a secular standpoint; though I remain atheist my answer is spiritual. What my answer is won't help you, you'll have to find your own, but I do hope that hearing that someone has bridged the gap gives you hope.

Again, I understand perfectly - could have been me writing this years ago.

I know some things are more powerful than me, (nature, the ocean, love, my home group, the universe) but I don't understand how to turn over my will to it or how it will take care of me or remove my character defects.

Hang in there.

brmk

This doesn't have to be a deal breaker. Recovery is different for each individual. "It works if you work it".Working it is not faking it. It is learning and internationally practicing healthy behaviors and principles. And it does work. And you will find your higher power when the time is right. Listen to your heart. I wish you peace and joy.

Gmoney

Hello FatallyUncool,

I want to start with Welcome! You aren't the first and won't be the last to question or struggle with the whole "higher power" stuff. You stated that you're willing to try something new and your willingness might be all that you need right now. I say that because it's been my experience to encounter numerous addicts who over-complicate the 3rd Step...especially in early recovery. In fact, I have two sponsees that are currently dealing with the same concerns you have. Please keep in mind that willingness is crucial in each step, but open-mindedness is also. Here's some food for thought:

I'm not a religious kinda guy, but it is my understanding that a HP doesn't take away or control self-will. I've been clean over 15 yrs now in NA and my HP will not stop me from going to cop dope and using it. My HP will not stop me from jumping off a bridge, putting a bullet in my skull or stepping in front of an oncoming bus. Yet...I tend to believe that my HP must have cared for me (even during my self-destructive times) because I survived and made it to NA. Coincidence? Maybe...maybe not. In reality...bad things happen to good people and good things happen to bad people.

I never bought into the "faking it" stuff either. Yet...NA teaches us that our understanding of a higher power is totally up to us...without any catches. NA goes on to tell us that we can call it [1] the group, [2] the program or [3] God. As a newer member I was often reminded of the old-school principle of "Two heads are better than one!" I mean...seriously...NA is full of addicts who knew how to do something I didn't know how to do: stay clean. If they can help me and show me how to live this new way of life...they are a "power" greater than me. Turning my will and my life over to the care of NA Fellowship can simply mean I am practicing a deeper level of surrender (step 1) and allowing them to teach me. The same applies to the NA program (the 12 Steps). If the program wasn't a "power" greater than me, why didn't I think of them in the first place? This program has proven to work in the lives of countless addicts all over the world. Turning my will and my life over to the care of the 12 Steps can simply mean I'm making a decision to let it work for me.

It seems that one of the biggest misunderstandings of Step 3 is that this step isn't requiring anyone to stop having self-will or that you become a religious zealot. It isn't asking you to turn over your will...as in becoming a mindless sheep or robot...it's asking you to turn your will over to the care of a power greater than yourself - whatever you choose that positive, loving and caring power to be. As I've already asserted, the decision we make in Step 3 is simply a commitment to stay clean and work the program to the best of our ability.

And when it comes to defects of character there's a whole lot that has to be understood and accomplished before they get "removed." Many addicts are still confused over what a character defect is...let alone what to do to have them arrested. Arresting our defects can often be a lifetime process and as long as we are actively using them they will not be removed. I could go on but I must remind you that the steps are written in an order for a reason and a 4th and 5th step must be done before having any serious consideration about defects, IMO.

I hope that helps. If you'd like I could point out some NA readings that may clarify it further.

G

FatallyUncool

Thank you all for your kind and thoughtful responses. I really love the support available on this forum.

I know I can over-complicate things and I'm doing that here to a degree. I also have a deep fear of becoming the mindless sheep mentioned above, although it would still probably be an improvement.

I will continue writing and reading on this, and talking to others. I would like to progress more quickly through the steps, but I am not rushing this or trying to force anything.

Threshold

Hopefully, if your NA groups are anything like the one's I've encountered, you will see that we are NOT mindless sheep, oh dear no, quite rabid, opinionated individualists!

I nod along with what Gmoney shared. I am what most would call "Godless" but my HP works to keep me sober every day, if I let it!

It's worked for many, turning the care of their lives over to the steps, the principles, good clean living, honesty...etc etc. Lots of things out there that take better care of my life than drugs...the power I USED to place my life in.

Glad to know you are hanging in there. Willing to be honest, ask the questions, etc etc. You can make it!

sugarbear1

Stop insisting there is no higher power, believe that the steps will help you, move on with the steps and see what happens.....

those steps saved my life.

coraltint

We are often too smart for our own good. I always get in trouble when I start trying to figure out why this sh!t works. It just does.

You admit your group is a power greater than yourself. Leave it at that, the book says it's ok! A room full of junkies and/or drunks who aren't using is clearly tapped into something more powerful than me.....left to my own wisdom, I end up locked in a room with a baggie & a bottle.

Joe Nerv

Same here. God to me is an easy to use word that defines the source or driving force behind all those above mentioned things. Since I was a little kid, I was astounded by the fact that a tiny little seed could grow into a giant oak tree, that my heart could beat flawlessly without any conscious involvement from me, and a whole bunch of other things like that. I always believed there was a power behind that kind of thing, a power I have no doubt whatsoever is greater than my own. For lack of a better word, I now call that power, God. And for lack of a better way to communicate with that power, I pray. And I've found that it works.

No matter how hard I try to open my mind, I can't get on board with an image of a God that is an all powerful human like being, sitting somewhere unknown, calling all the shots. I also don't believe that there is a higher power making all things work out for anybody. It's pretty obvious that that's not true. I do believe however that we live in a benevolent universe. I believe man is inherently and instinctually good, and without us getting in our own way things seem to flow pretty well. The planets, stars and everything in existence seems to take care of itself pretty well. Biggest, possibly even the only problems seem to come from the things we ourselves do. To me, the whole idea behind the 12 steps and turning our life and will over to god is to step out of our own way. There is no real concrete way that I know of to do this other than to make a conscious decision to do that, affirm it through prayer, and then just let things happen. My experience has been that it absolutely works. I celebrated 29 years sober last month, and I can't even begin to tell you how many times I felt "saved", in essence, from myself. Nothing super mystical happening, just a trust in positive energy, goodness, whatever I want to call it... that has seen me through to the other side of every sober encounter I've had thus far. Good, ugly, and otherwise.

Want to note also that turning my life and will over to the care of God means to me exactly that. Doesn't mean I'm going to always do whatever it is I imagine God's will to be, or that I'm going to flip flop back and forth from God's will to my own. Means that after doing so, I'm going to trust that my will is now under the care of that power I choose to call God. As is my entire life.

llastchance8

Hi, You have already got very meaningful and useful answers from our good friends on SR. I tried AA but it did not work fully for me . I used other tools liek AVRT, read books of Allen Carr, spent lot of time on SR etc.. But I must say that some thing from Big Book really helped to set my mind in the right direction .. and that is the Serenity prayer.. I fimly believe that we should only try to control things what we can and not worry about things we can not control.. But the most important part is knowing the difference between both of them.. For me, picking up or not picking up my 1st drink is entirely under my control.. I do not need any power to stop me from drinking or force me to drink. But I can not allow myself to drink because it rained today, or it did not rain today or on why it did not rain today and when it will rain etc ..... Sorry for the complicated BS but it works for me thats why I thought of sharing..

hellomynameis

This is a great thread and a good series of posts..thanks for this disucssion

mfanch

Infinite Universe vs. Finite Self

That choice was a no-brainer for this nontheist.

Also, step 3 was a decision I made to work the rest of the steps. It really didn't sink in until later. We ACT our way into correct thinking, not the other way around.



Glad you are here.

FatallyUncool

Thank you legna. This does give me hope.

FatallyUncool

Great stuff, thank you.

FatallyUncool

Thank you, this is very helpful.

FatallyUncool

LOL, yes! Thanks for your help and support.

FatallyUncool

Ok, thank you Sugarbear. Good stuff.

FatallyUncool

Thank you, yes, too smart for our own good. My sponsor tells me "Don't think, feel."

FatallyUncool

I have been reading and researching the Chinese concept of the Tao, and it really mirrors a lot of these ideas that things will take care of themselves and the best we can do is get out of our own way, and that our thinking and interfering tends to cause most or all of our (and the world's) problems. Thank you for this.