Beloved

:xmasu :na2 :hugehug Hi and thanks for everyone allowing me to share . stay in the rooms , keep you eyes , and ears open . And please don't try to get a sponsor ask your Higher Power to give you a sponsor "Thy Will Be Done" That way HE will only give you what is needed to aid you in your process of personal , and spiritual growth . Don't try to grade your own paper it's like sponsoring self , and if that will be the case just Think about the last person you got HIGH with , and that person would be you. So keep comin back and you expect a miracle OK love Ya ! (Beloved)

Gmoney

Hi Family,

I've read through most of this thread and truly believe that the intention for posting it was good and thoughtful. Sponsorship is so very important to the survival of the NA Fellowship and NA Program, and it should never be minimized. It's one of the basic ways the NA message gets carried from one addict to another: an addict, any addict, can stop using drugs, lose the desire to use and find a new way to live. Our steps are what make recovery possible because they are the solution. Yet, in order for the newer members to be guided through the steps, there has to be members who are ready, willing and able to provide the guidance.

So often I hear members with extensive clean time share about how many sponsees they've had (or have) as a testament to their ability (or qualifications) as sponsors. Anyone who has been around for some years can tell you that the doors to NA continue to revolve and addicts come and go all the time. Numbers can be very misleading and the quantity of members sponsored pales in comparison to the quality of the lives of those sponsored. I mention this not as a put-down of those listed with much time and multiple sponsees, but moreso as a caution for the newer members to not buy into the hype. The quality of a potential sponsor's recovery is more important than how much time they have or how many members they sponsor. Our recovery speaks louder in how we live than it does in what we say.

Since this is a NA thread, I can relate to the importance of adhering to Traditions, NA Language and "singleness of purpose." Yet, we have to be careful not to become overly restrictive or venture into the realm of being the NA police. I, for one, am well aware of the importance of keeping our message from being blurred or directly associated with other fellowships, but even in our Basic Text, a member uses the term "clean and sober" (page 182, 5th ed.), so I try not to get my drawers in a bunch whenever someone goes there. We have to learn how to allow others to find their way just as we did - this includes coming to understand that being "clean" covers all bases and the terms sober or sobriety becomes redundant. Patience and tolerance are the principles applied here.

When it comes to sponsorship, we have to keep in mind our 12th step, and understand that our ability to carry the message is always directly associated with our distinct personalities. Sure...there are some basic fundamental suggestions, but I believe our real value as sponsors is revealed when we can cater our efforts to carry the message according to those we carry it to. Meetings, sharing, reading and writing was a big part of how I was taught...and I still think it's just as important today, but being flexible to the needs and concerns of the newer member can play a crucial part in helping them to stay clean and grow spiritually. Most importantly, we have to remember that the best way to carry the message is by the way we live and the most powerful tool for reaching the still suffering addict is the power of example. Too often there are those of us who bite off more than we can chew (by taking on too many sponsees) and find ourselves not having enough time or resources to be as effective as we could be. Being a sponsor should never be viewed as a status thing.

The basic suggestions: do 90 meetings in 90 days...join a home group...get a Basic Text and read it...get a phone list and reach out...get a sponsor...step work...get involved in service, and don't use no matter what; have worked for countless addicts before and after me. The new member's desire to stay clean, fostered by desperation, will determine their willingness to follow direction. And when it's all said and done, it's not so much our unique abilities as teachers (sponsor's) that should be given credit. Why? Because sponsorship is a two-way street and the sponsee helps us to stay clean just as much as we help them. We can only keep what we have by giving it away, and it is the giving that allows us to receive our daily reprieve.

The heart of NA beats when two addicts share their recovery.

mae164

This is exactly why the topic is SO IMPORTANT!! THANK YOU FOR STARTING THIS! The work we do should all be the same the experience and how god works in our life id different but the work done to get there should be the same!I just read some intresting IDEAS on what the steps and sponsorship mean but they do NOT MATCH UP WITH WHAT OUR BASIC TEXT SAYS AT ALL( FYI- NA CAME FROM AA SO IT SHOULD MATCH UP ALSO)

Step One- I HAVE ADMITTED I AM POWERLESS OVER ALCOHOL AND THAT MY LIFE IS UNMANAGEABLE- ONLY MEANSTHAT ONCE I START I CANT STOP,(cause i have an allergy which produces a craving for more and the more i drink the more i want another one) AND I AM UNABLE TO MANAGE THE DECISION TO DRINK-OBSSESION ( every time i say that i am done for good and all something happens in my head that I convince myself to pick it up again)
-loss of control and of choice step one is ONLY A CONCLUSION - done with spending time sitting across from a recovered alcohoilc/addict that understands this and has recovered from it! MAX 1 HOUR

PLEASE UNDERSTAND THAT STEPS ONE DOES NOT HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH CONCEQUENCES OR INJURIES - There are plenty of people whose life is unmanageable AND DRINKS but does that make them an alcoholic?NO- GIVEN A GOOD REASON THEY CAN STOP- AN ALCOHOLIC CAN NOT BECOUSE OF WHAT I JUST EXPLAINED

The steps are laid out to be worked quickly- cause of the 2nd part of step one (the mental obssesion, read p.23-24 BB) what ever low point i drank myself to that i am at that i have got to quit point- you give just an alcoholic/addict a week to a month(for me it was the same day within hours)
and i can not bring that pain back with enough force to keep me from doing it again-NO MATTER HOW BAD IT WAS- you will drink again then the cycle starts again i go to have one or just 2 allergy kicks in and WASTED - drink till i get to some low point and well ...over and over THAT IS STEP ONE- NOTHING ELSE- WITH OUT THAT UNDERSTANDING little or nothing can be done- WITH THAT YOU NEED A POWER GRATER THAN YOURSELF TO GIVE YOU THAT DEFENCE(bad spelling) ASAP HOW? BY GETTING TO 12-WHICH IS HAVING HAD A SPIRITUAL EXPERIENCE ....

If someone asks me to sponsor them i do not have the right to say no- i turned my will and life over to GOD in my 3rd step, and asked him take my diffaculties away so that i can show others that his way works- sponsorship is how you do that! Plus it is the most amazing thing to watch someone change before your eyes in such a short period of time!!!
LOVE YA ALL

sticker

WOW I am really confused wasn't aware this was an AA forum. Thought there was already one of those. I have an N.A. sponsor who has an NA sponsor and so on. We all use NA lit step guides It works how and why The sponsorship guide The experience of thousands of other NA members. I sponsor as I was sponsored because that is what worked for me. so there for that is all i can pass on. not what someone else says worked for someone else. if I am having sponsees read from other fellowship literature then I am blurring the message and have no business being a sponsor. They are looking to me to help clarify the message. I feel very fortunate to have been sponsored this way. And yes I am very familiar with the AA program and eternally grateful to them. But we are separate entities.

Gmoney

Yeah...to post AA stuff on an NA forum is misleading (IMO), but I look at the dates and figure (just like now) there aren't that many folks visiting the NA forum...so it gets slid in. Some folks think they are the same, but they aren't. The 1st step of NA and NA's singleness of purpose should be considered.

dalin

:codiepolice
This book was basicly what was understood about the program at the time of it was printed.The step guide is faily new material.My grandsponsor is in this book.
I am an addict,and only go to N.A. meetings.
At the time that this came out,there wasnt much out there abour sponsorship,so this was helpful to me,along with a few other unaproved
literature from hazledon or where ever.
The sponsor that I had was one that had a guide that he had written.
We also used unaproved recovery written by other addicts,nawol etc.
We used whatever info we had,and knew that alot was griss for the
mill.The new sponsorship book hant been truly accepted by alot of
our family of sponsorship.But basicly,alot is griss for the mill.
We still use the Back to Basic book that Greg P.
Alot is based on our experianced strength and hope.

Gmoney

Just because NA was "adapted" from AA doesn't mean NA should be identical. And since they aren't exactly the same, their steps and corresponding step work should reflect the differences in their primary purpose. NA's methods for recovery do not have to match AA's to be effective, and the results prove it.

"We follow the same path with a single exception: our identification as addicts is all-inclusive with respect to any mood-changing, mind-altering substance. Alcoholism is too limited a term for us; our problem is not a specific substance, it is a disease called addiction." ~ Narcotics Anonymous Basic Text, page xv

Gmoney

I was just re-reading some of the entries on this thread, and this remark caught my eye. I know everyone has an opinion about this, but my question is "how quick is quickly?" In Narcotics Anonymous there are numerous "schools ot thought" relating to the above assertion, and I cannot speak for anyone else...nor would I. I know in recent threads we've discussed the "step-a-year" belief and we've debated "speed stepping" (or as they say in my area "microwave stepwork"). IMO, the steps are a program of recovery that are written in a way that an addict can follow them in their daily lives - whether that be fast, medium or slow. I'm sure we've all heard stories, or knew of people who raced through the steps and (apparently) still forgot the pain of active addiction and used again. On that same angle, there are those who have stayed clean for many, many years that never "completed" step work. Mind you...I'm not advocating that anyone avoid working the steps to prove anything, nor am I saying that those who rush through the steps are doing something wrong. What I am saying is that, because we differ in degree of sickness and rate of recovery, there are many factors that come into play when discussing an individual's ability to stay clean and recover.

Not saying this is the case, but the above mentioned view may be responsible for so many addicts having sponsors that aren't qualified or available for them. I hear newcomers complaining all the time about how their sponsors never call them back, or they don't keep appointments and promises. IMO, sponsorship is a serious obligation and one I should never take lightly. I must always remember that I'm a recovering addict myself, and I have to look out for my own recovery first and foremost. IMO, taking on too many sponsees is an indication of unmanageability and imbalance in my life. We may not be able to keep what we have without giving it away, but when I give too much I may not have what I need for my own serenity and well-being.

Wow...I'm so glad NA doesn't teach us that we're to held "accountable" for anything other than our own recovery. My job as a sponsor is to (primarily) be a guide through the 12 steps of NA. It isn't my job to hold anyone accountable to anything. I'd like to see where it says that in ANY literature.

G

Gmoney

a Higher Power?:

"We can call it the group, the program, or we can call it God." - Basic Text, page 24

So...for some, the group (i.e., the fellowship/meetings) is a power greater than themselves that is relied on to help them to solve their problems - including staying clean.

lisamazsam

"I'm ready to do the 5th, I don't know why I can't find a recovering addict who can help me."

My higher power has always given what I needed when I needed it provided that my back wasn't turned to the open door. HP opens doors. Sometimes I have to knock first. Ask and you shall receive is what I've been told. There has always been someone for me in the meeting that I can ask to sponsor me. I have been told "No", but I keep on knocking/asking.

I have a few requirements for a sponsor. One of which is being clean. I am currently questioning that quality in my current sponsor, of which is on the morphine pump for back pain and slurrs and stumbles occasionally. I have read in " In times of illness". Any experience with this issue is greatly appreciated. I, also, question my motives on focusing on this issue. Am I using this as a reason not to trust my sponsor? Do I run to save my own butt? Am I using this issue to focus on someone else besides me? Ultimately it is my choice on how to handle this situation. Can't do it alone.
Willing to listen now.

stayinsober

I'm just fresh at recovering on day 5! I'm currently reading the AA book.Went to an AA meeting which is on wednesdays.Have finally made up my mind I'm going to make it through this with help from others, the book and my higher power. So forgive me of the stupid question ....Where do I get a sponsor? Is it at the AA meeting? How do you go about it? I mean do you just ask a retired alcoholic to sponsor you?LOL I know it's a dumb quest. and I was kicking it around.I'm shy unless I drink and so there for I didn't ask at the meeting I suppose I can when I get to know them better along with myself.Thanks everyone

kj3880

Are you going to meetings regularly? The reason I ask is, all of these answers become very clear if you attend more meetings for a while. Once a week wasn't enough for me. For one thing, the other members (there is no such thing as a retired alcoholic, just other alcoholics maybe further along in the recovery process then you are now.) don't get to know you or take you seriously as seeking recovery unless they see you around regularly for a bit. If you spend time at AA, hang around before and after the meetings, listen to the sharing, you'll find someone who has what you want in a sponsor. It takes a time commitment to do this thing.

Love,
KJ

lisamazsam

You are welcome. Congrats on your decision to stay clean and sober. I picked a sponsor by finding someone that I can identify with and goes to meetings on a regular basis. Sober time isn't an issue for me especially when I hear someone sharing from the heart and hear working knowledge of the steps. There are temporary sponsors, who sponsor until one finds a permanent sponsor. I found my current sponsor in my homegroup.
I went to 90 meetings in 90 days and found that it really helped to get to know everyone and form a good foundation. I was lucky enough to have that many meetings in my area. If you are educated. I suggest 180 in 180 as the disease is Smarter. lol

Grateful to laugh at myself today,
Lisa

stayinsober

Thanks for the info everyone1 yes I'm going to AA meetings but only a few so far as this is only day 6 for me but I am really serious about staying sober this time I want to do everything i can

ProgramChild

When I sponsor someone I basically give them my experience. I was told that I can only give away what I had, and all that I had was what I was given. I went through all 12 steps in one day with a sponsor and then later began attending 12 step workshops. So my requirement for my sponsee is that within the first week we must get together and go through all 12 steps, and then they must attend one of the workshops and if possible bring a newcomer. I know many others who work this process and I have seen some amazing things happen.

As one of my fellows has said "All of my sponsees have been a success, I have not relapsed. Yea, some of them are dead, but I'm still clean!" I don't sponsor because of you, I sponsor because of me, and I give you the tools to do the same. Our literature tells us that our best defense against relapse is working with a newcomer.

lisamazsam

Wow the 12 steps in one day is a neat concept that is new to me. I like it. My experience is that I can work the steps at my own pace. I sponsor the same way. I have been ask, "Am I doing this so fast that I might be missing something?" My experience is that I learn something new everytime I work the step again. I have been told that we will never truely get it all. It's a simple program, but it's the hardest thing I've ever done. It's like eating an elephant, one bite at a time.

Grateful to make mistakes today
Lisa

Gmoney

NA literature says:

"The steps are our solution. They are our survival kit. They are our defense against addiction which is a deadly disease." - Basic Text, pg 19

"We have never seen a person who lives the Narcotics Anonymous Program relapse." - Basic Text, pg. 76

"Our experience reveals that working the steps is our best guarantee against relapse." - Basic Text, pg. 55

ProgramChild, please provide where it says our best defense against relapse is working with a newcomer. I don't ever recall reading that.....

Well said Lisa, and my experience is similar. The steps aren't a race and simply talking, reading and discussing them in a short period isn't the same thing as working or living the steps. I could provide a quote from our literature that says something about pondering and discussing the steps isn't sufficient for us, but I don't have time right now. The program is simple...not easy. What we have to give away is experience, strength and hope...from LIVING the program, and I contend that a person who rushes through the steps in a day has no more experience to give away than the person who stayed clean and didn't.

I'm just sayin...

SteppingItUp

Step Twelve (p. 50 of the Basic Text; How It Works):

"By this time, most of us realise that the only way we can keep what was given to us is by sharing this new gift of life with the still-suffering addict. This is our best defense against relapse to the torturous existence of using. We call it carrying the message, and we do it in a number of ways."

Happy New Year everyone!

Big hugs and lots of love to all.

Gmoney

Thanks SteppingItUp...good try, but the qoute you provided doesn't mention a newcomer...it says, "the still-suffering addict." As most of us already know, that could be any addict who is suffering - regardless of clean time. And as our literature says, carrying the message is done in a number of ways...but it most certainly isn't restricted to just newcomers. LOL

lisamazsam

The newcomer is the MOST important person at any meeting, because we can only keep what we have by giving it away." For me, I get chill bumps when a newcomer shares with their butt on fire. It reminds me that I am only one bad decision from a firey butt. That decision being to pick up a mind altering substance. Most of all it reminds me to work the steps, because the steps are THE key to recover.


Like Gmoney I agree that working the steps is my best defense against relapse. I disagree with GMoney in that

Any attempt at steps are better than no attempt in my opinion.
Please note that working them backwards can lead to relapse. I call this the twelve steps to Hell. Very painful in my experience.

I learned to work them in order and in the order they come in.
Grateful to listen and discuss issues,
Lisa