Court Ordered NA
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Kansas city. Mo
Posts: 34
Night two of holding silence. I went to a Kansas City meeting. Parked the new Mercedes two blocks away and wore shabby clothes.
The meeting was about "In times of illenss".
The discussion gravitated to antidepressants. I was one of the few people not on them. But there was a kid there who was thinking about it. At the smoke break he and I chatted and went for coffee.
He has three weeks and his counselor is pushing hard for him to take something. While I didn't reveal my years clean I told him I didn't take anything. He was quite intrigued, having never met a non-antidepressant addict in recovery.
He and I are having dinner before tomorrow nights meeting, on my nickle, at Red Lobster. I take all the crisp ones to Red Lobster. Something about seafood makes for bonding.
In answer to the thread, the problem with citing It Works How And Why is that it is not fellowship approved. NAWS paid a guy from AA $100,000 to write it. Then they sold it to us.
And yes, I feel driving a new car can be an attraction for newcommers. I trade every year and always get a very different color so it's obvious. I tell my new guys that they can have a new car if they immerse themselves in NA and I always go to the dealer with my sponsees when they buy a new car, then we go to Red Lobster afterwards.
I guess I'm really down on courtslip because when the meetings in
my town was over run by courtslippers and the meetings became chaotic, the oldtimers fled. Then the Alano Club that had been running smoothly for 25 years closed. The oldtimers put money in the basket and when they left the source of funds dried up.
Now, over in AA, there are only a very few meetings at 6 am in small church rooms. The courtslips broke the back of AA. The same thing happened to NA in Eureka, California. The NA meetings are all going dark.
You can't kill the host and still have people get clean.
It would be nice if it didn't happen, but that's the bottom line. Once you lose the oldtimers, the cash flow and structure go and meetings start going dark.
The meeting was about "In times of illenss".
The discussion gravitated to antidepressants. I was one of the few people not on them. But there was a kid there who was thinking about it. At the smoke break he and I chatted and went for coffee.
He has three weeks and his counselor is pushing hard for him to take something. While I didn't reveal my years clean I told him I didn't take anything. He was quite intrigued, having never met a non-antidepressant addict in recovery.
He and I are having dinner before tomorrow nights meeting, on my nickle, at Red Lobster. I take all the crisp ones to Red Lobster. Something about seafood makes for bonding.
In answer to the thread, the problem with citing It Works How And Why is that it is not fellowship approved. NAWS paid a guy from AA $100,000 to write it. Then they sold it to us.
And yes, I feel driving a new car can be an attraction for newcommers. I trade every year and always get a very different color so it's obvious. I tell my new guys that they can have a new car if they immerse themselves in NA and I always go to the dealer with my sponsees when they buy a new car, then we go to Red Lobster afterwards.
I guess I'm really down on courtslip because when the meetings in
my town was over run by courtslippers and the meetings became chaotic, the oldtimers fled. Then the Alano Club that had been running smoothly for 25 years closed. The oldtimers put money in the basket and when they left the source of funds dried up.
Now, over in AA, there are only a very few meetings at 6 am in small church rooms. The courtslips broke the back of AA. The same thing happened to NA in Eureka, California. The NA meetings are all going dark.
You can't kill the host and still have people get clean.
It would be nice if it didn't happen, but that's the bottom line. Once you lose the oldtimers, the cash flow and structure go and meetings start going dark.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Kansas city. Mo
Posts: 34
Very interesting. So you guys also don't agree that each meeting is autonomous. Humm.
It's says it in black and white and we read it at every meeting.
So you guys believe that area can say "no more speaker meetings" or "no more smoke breaks at meetings".
So if each meeting is not autonomous, why do we read it at every meeting. If it is not true, does not mesh with the overall sentiments of the fellowship they why not remove it and just have eleven traditions?
Well, why not?
It's logic folks.
If area is supposed to dictate that no one is allowed to start a non-courtslip meeting, then why do we include that tradition?
You can't have it both ways.
In Kansas City every single meeting is courtslip signing.
And almost every one is a closed meeting. So if you are sent by the court, you must verbally state that you are an addict or leave the meeting, and they strictly enforce this rule.
So if you are sent on a courtslip and do not believe you are an addict you must lie and say that you are an addict to get your slip signed or simply go to prison.
Now what do you guys think about that?
Remember, NA is an honest program.
It's says it in black and white and we read it at every meeting.
So you guys believe that area can say "no more speaker meetings" or "no more smoke breaks at meetings".
So if each meeting is not autonomous, why do we read it at every meeting. If it is not true, does not mesh with the overall sentiments of the fellowship they why not remove it and just have eleven traditions?
Well, why not?
It's logic folks.
If area is supposed to dictate that no one is allowed to start a non-courtslip meeting, then why do we include that tradition?
You can't have it both ways.
In Kansas City every single meeting is courtslip signing.
And almost every one is a closed meeting. So if you are sent by the court, you must verbally state that you are an addict or leave the meeting, and they strictly enforce this rule.
So if you are sent on a courtslip and do not believe you are an addict you must lie and say that you are an addict to get your slip signed or simply go to prison.
Now what do you guys think about that?
Remember, NA is an honest program.
It is what it is!!!
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Sobriety
Posts: 5,767
you must verbally state that you are an addict or leave the meeting, and they strictly enforce this rule.
This is all so interesting.
And whatever happened to 'take what you want and leave the rest'........?????
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Kansas city. Mo
Posts: 34
See, Paula, it makes no sense to me. What is the purpose of having most every meeting in Kansas City a closed meeting. In a way, it makes it more difficult for the courtslipper. They are there under duress to begin with. I guess at some point, somebody thought it was important to do this.
It seems to me that a closed meeting would never sign courtslips as the courtslippers would like because they were under duress.
I would think that ninety percent of the meetings would be open and ten percent actually closed which would logically be non-courtslip signing.
Kansas City is the 14th largest city in the US and there is not one non-courtslip meeting, and everybody wonders where the old timers are.
On the monthly birthday board it goes like this most months. 23 years, 7 years, 3 years, 2 years, 1 year. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out something major is going on here.
This is the elephant in the middle of the room. Where are the oldtimers? Why did they go? Are they, in fact, all assholes? Do they have a valid complaint? Or do people on NA get cured after three years and not have to go to meetings?
I know that twenty years ago the rooms were pretty full. So where are they and what happened. If I had three years, what would lead me to believe that I would be the exception to the rule and have my name on the board ten or fifteen years from now.
I mean, I would be totally freaked out. It would be like marching into battle and all the guys ahead of me would be comming back on body bags. I would be a little nervous.
And on this thing of meeting autonomy, my interpretation is that each group cannot send a GSR to area and vote how my meeting should be structured. Autonomy means the other groups cannot tell your group what format to use. Not, that other groups can tell your group how it is structured.
That seems crystal clear to me.
It seems to me that a closed meeting would never sign courtslips as the courtslippers would like because they were under duress.
I would think that ninety percent of the meetings would be open and ten percent actually closed which would logically be non-courtslip signing.
Kansas City is the 14th largest city in the US and there is not one non-courtslip meeting, and everybody wonders where the old timers are.
On the monthly birthday board it goes like this most months. 23 years, 7 years, 3 years, 2 years, 1 year. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out something major is going on here.
This is the elephant in the middle of the room. Where are the oldtimers? Why did they go? Are they, in fact, all assholes? Do they have a valid complaint? Or do people on NA get cured after three years and not have to go to meetings?
I know that twenty years ago the rooms were pretty full. So where are they and what happened. If I had three years, what would lead me to believe that I would be the exception to the rule and have my name on the board ten or fifteen years from now.
I mean, I would be totally freaked out. It would be like marching into battle and all the guys ahead of me would be comming back on body bags. I would be a little nervous.
And on this thing of meeting autonomy, my interpretation is that each group cannot send a GSR to area and vote how my meeting should be structured. Autonomy means the other groups cannot tell your group what format to use. Not, that other groups can tell your group how it is structured.
That seems crystal clear to me.
It is what it is!!!
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Sobriety
Posts: 5,767
Tsar7 ...... try and be a part of instead of on the outside looking in. Continue to share your E,S&H with the newcomers, continue to share with the court ordered people, continue to show people that it works if you work. Continue to live in the light of your HP, continue to share what you were taught....you seem to just be fighting everything.
Or hey.....move to another state.
Whatever you choose to do, I do wish you the best. And even if you are the only oldtimer with your name on the birthday board (we dont have those either here LOL) you dont know if you are showing just one person, one newcomer (court ordered or not) that it works if you work it.....and that is what it is all about!
Or hey.....move to another state.
Whatever you choose to do, I do wish you the best. And even if you are the only oldtimer with your name on the birthday board (we dont have those either here LOL) you dont know if you are showing just one person, one newcomer (court ordered or not) that it works if you work it.....and that is what it is all about!
Certified NA Counselor
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Newport Beach Ca., US
Posts: 458
Originally Posted by Tsar7 
In answer to the thread, the problem with citing It Works How And Why is that it is not fellowship approved. NAWS paid a guy from AA $100,000 to write it. Then they sold it to us.
See, I could almost buy some of what you say, albeit, some of it is scary. But with this you've begun to lose a lot of credibility with what you say you know about NA.
There are few around I've found that are as critical of NAW$ as I am, but this for one I just can't buy. I have a lot of close friends that were in on the input and review of IW:H&W.
I've also learned that I want to be very careful when I begin to play NA member - psychiatrist/M.D.
a
Evolving Addict
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: New York State
Posts: 3,067
I know I said I was done, but you're killing me. 
Somebody writes all our stuff. Big deal. I get so tired of members crying, "It's not fellowship approved," when something from our literature opposes their views. The same "Fellowship Approved" stamp is in IWH&W that's in the basic text. So, is all the literature not approved by the fellowship? Or was it not approved by YOU, and that's what makes it not fellowship approved?
Seems to me that the oldtimers in your area did a poor job of "giving it away to keep it." And it also seems to me that diversity isn't strong there as well.
Where did anyone say that? Didn't the groups/meeting make their voices heard at your ASC?
You never said that before. You know very well no one here even came close to asserting that.
Yes...the PROGRAM is honest, but people aren't always. I'm starting to think you're stretching the truth a bit yourself.
YOUR meeting? It appears to me that the group (you are a member of) made the decision to sign court papers and your GSR voted accordingly. Doesn't sound to me that the ASC dictated to the group...the group had already decided.
It is true that each group should be self-governing, but there is a clause. Each group is autonomous EXCEPT in matters that affect other groups or NA as a whole. Have you ever considered that discriminating against "court slippers" affects other groups and NA as a whole?
I thought the same thing. LOL!! Gotta be tough being the only member around with over 7 years. If everyone else left, have you asked yourself why you're the only one holding on?
In answer to the thread, the problem with citing It Works How And Why is that it is not fellowship approved. NAWS paid a guy from AA $100,000 to write it. Then they sold it to us.
Once you lose the oldtimers, the cash flow and structure go and meetings start going dark.
So you guys also don't agree that each meeting is autonomous. Humm.
So you guys believe that area can say "no more speaker meetings" or "no more smoke breaks at meetings".
Remember, NA is an honest program.
And on this thing of meeting autonomy, my interpretation is that each group cannot send a GSR to area and vote how my meeting should be structured. Autonomy means the other groups cannot tell your group what format to use. Not, that other groups can tell your group how it is structured.
So I began starting non-courtslip signing meetings. But after a few weeks about 20 people would start showing up and vote it a court slip signing meeting and continue to show up to enforce it.
Or hey.....move to another state.
It is what it is!!!
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Sobriety
Posts: 5,767
Seems to me that the oldtimers in your area did a poor job of "giving it away to keep it." And it also seems to me that diversity isn't strong there as well.
I know today that NA will survive without me, it did before I got clean and it would if I went back out. I also know that if I were to move tomorrow, my area and the meetings I attend would survive without me.
Move....go to different meetings.............but all this complaining and picking things apart, Tsar7 it really is not good for your spirit at all. And I dont mean to be a smartass here.....but maybe you should do some step work around these resentments you have.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Kansas city. Mo
Posts: 34
Ok. I have laid out what beingnin a
meeting every night for the last 26 years had taught me. Believe it or not I only have the best interests of NA at heart and it's survival. I saw CA collapse in the eighties. I have put all of my beliefs out there, everything I've absorbed over 26 years of daily
meeting attendance. The response had been that I an out to
lunch.
I have delivered the omenous warning of the comming collapse of NA due to court slips. I have been found unfounded in these warnings. I submit to those with multiple weeks, months and years clean that you are right and in just a foggy old fool with decades clean.
Time will tell who was perceptive about what the future holds. In two years we will look back and know. I don't think we have two years left.
This will be my last post. I will be in meetings every night as I have been for the last 26 years. I hope and pray I am wrong about what I see comming. I hope you are all correct and that NA blossoms and grows.
meeting every night for the last 26 years had taught me. Believe it or not I only have the best interests of NA at heart and it's survival. I saw CA collapse in the eighties. I have put all of my beliefs out there, everything I've absorbed over 26 years of daily
meeting attendance. The response had been that I an out to
lunch.
I have delivered the omenous warning of the comming collapse of NA due to court slips. I have been found unfounded in these warnings. I submit to those with multiple weeks, months and years clean that you are right and in just a foggy old fool with decades clean.
Time will tell who was perceptive about what the future holds. In two years we will look back and know. I don't think we have two years left.
This will be my last post. I will be in meetings every night as I have been for the last 26 years. I hope and pray I am wrong about what I see comming. I hope you are all correct and that NA blossoms and grows.
Member
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 320
Similar situation here with me is that I can find a bunch of negitive websites about NA and the 12 steps. IF I choose to visit those sites and allow the sick information to get in my head I will throw my recovery away.
I can find the differences in everything. My disease loves a argument and disfunction. If there is none.... I will create some. My area is much the same as yours T7, however I search for the similarities. Lets face it stunbblin around my area at 43 years old dragging a 25 year coin ant a everyday sight, however I am not going to have the priviledge if I stop trying.
Hear me clearly on this "there is nothing more silent and deadly than an openminded addicts mind slamming closed" My open mind slammed closed and a not one living sole was able to break in and sort through my negative thoughts. I will not go into details but I can tell you that the thoughts of ending my life became a daily thing for a few years even with 20 years clean.
It was the statement in the text that says ONLY a ATTITUDE of INDEFFERENCE or INTOLERANCE could cause me to return to addiction. That is when it came to me that it was my attitude that was the problem.
At that moment I thrusted my self into the steps. My four sponsees 12th steped me back into a loving relationship with a GOD I had cussed for several years.
You see I blamed God for the death of my two , 1 year old children I laid to rest while in recovery. I didnt use but I hated God. My mind was cut off from any and all positive feedback. I was dying within my own recovery.
T7 please....digg down and grab some of the positive stuff your hidding and find someone to give it to. This is what saved my life, helping others.
The more I withheld my recovery from others the more a piece of me died inside. its true NA will be here long after you and I are gone however your recovery can live on in the hearts and soles of many others. Much like the addicts that came before me that are gone now.
As for those that grow intolerant of those of US that are intolerant. I remind you that WE go through some dark times in recovery and it is not pretty. I tend to push away the folks I need the most. I am soooo glad those folks kept reaching for me when I was lost.
NA did not give up on me and I will not give up on it....that means you too T7.
I can find the differences in everything. My disease loves a argument and disfunction. If there is none.... I will create some. My area is much the same as yours T7, however I search for the similarities. Lets face it stunbblin around my area at 43 years old dragging a 25 year coin ant a everyday sight, however I am not going to have the priviledge if I stop trying.
Hear me clearly on this "there is nothing more silent and deadly than an openminded addicts mind slamming closed" My open mind slammed closed and a not one living sole was able to break in and sort through my negative thoughts. I will not go into details but I can tell you that the thoughts of ending my life became a daily thing for a few years even with 20 years clean.
It was the statement in the text that says ONLY a ATTITUDE of INDEFFERENCE or INTOLERANCE could cause me to return to addiction. That is when it came to me that it was my attitude that was the problem.
At that moment I thrusted my self into the steps. My four sponsees 12th steped me back into a loving relationship with a GOD I had cussed for several years.
You see I blamed God for the death of my two , 1 year old children I laid to rest while in recovery. I didnt use but I hated God. My mind was cut off from any and all positive feedback. I was dying within my own recovery.
T7 please....digg down and grab some of the positive stuff your hidding and find someone to give it to. This is what saved my life, helping others.
The more I withheld my recovery from others the more a piece of me died inside. its true NA will be here long after you and I are gone however your recovery can live on in the hearts and soles of many others. Much like the addicts that came before me that are gone now.
As for those that grow intolerant of those of US that are intolerant. I remind you that WE go through some dark times in recovery and it is not pretty. I tend to push away the folks I need the most. I am soooo glad those folks kept reaching for me when I was lost.
NA did not give up on me and I will not give up on it....that means you too T7.
*Grateful*
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Midwest
Posts: 2,619
I find that when I feel insecure like people are smirking and laughing at me the root of my problem is false pride. (Insecurity and pride really go hand in hand cuz you think everything is about you)
I have found to remedy this problem I have with self is to reach outside of myself and serve another human being. It works every single time.
Blessings Tsar7
I have found to remedy this problem I have with self is to reach outside of myself and serve another human being. It works every single time.
Blessings Tsar7
Evolving Addict
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: New York State
Posts: 3,067
Time will tell who was perceptive about what the future holds. In two years we will look back and know. I don't think we have two years left.
When I had 3 years clean, there was a member who swore that we'd all be holding our meetings in the park in five years due to our behavior. Sure...we lost a few meeting places, but we picked up a couple along the way. A few of our groups are celebrating 25 years in existence and are still the largest meetings in town. My home group has been around for 20 years and, although we're a small group, we're still going strong. The doors are opened every Sunday and the program still works.
As AndyAddict always says, NA is self-correcting...it truly is resilient.
Whenever I find myself in opposition with the world around me, I have to remind myself of where I came from. I came from a place of inner turmoil, distrust of others, lack of self-acceptance and fear. It was only after I came to NA and began working the steps that I realized that the world wasn't the problem - I was. And even today I can be my worst enemy - creating unrest and chaos due to my inability to accept personal responsibility. The ultimate problem is me and without surrender I'll continue to fight a war I cannot win. For me, serenity comes about as a result of accepting that most things are as they should be because my HP makes no mistakes.
Will NA survive? Two principles tell me yes: Faith and Hope.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Kansas city. Mo
Posts: 34
I have 33 years now and I am still going to meetings. The court slippers have exploded ten fold. Many meetings going dark. But I keep going. If I share I get yelled at so I just sit quietly and watch the passing parade.
Court slips are everyones darling but I refuse to sign them. I am not real popular here. Now the sacred cow, court slips, have become something mystical, magical, not to ever be discussed or criticized. They are off limits to analysis. They are considered the only way that NA gets new blood. Its like mass hysteria. I watch and chuckle as the codependents get cussed out by the court slipper if they do not jump and sign their slips early. I would love to start a new meeting but every meeting in my town is required to sign court slips.
On Sunday afternoon we gather to have a work party. We clean the mold off of the four year chips as we have not given one out for years. Just kidding. They do not get moldy, they just sit.
The birthday board is 1,1,1,2,2,3,3,11,11,12,13,15,16,18,19,21,22,22,etc .
But hey, its working, yea, this Drug Court thing is working.
Court slips are everyones darling but I refuse to sign them. I am not real popular here. Now the sacred cow, court slips, have become something mystical, magical, not to ever be discussed or criticized. They are off limits to analysis. They are considered the only way that NA gets new blood. Its like mass hysteria. I watch and chuckle as the codependents get cussed out by the court slipper if they do not jump and sign their slips early. I would love to start a new meeting but every meeting in my town is required to sign court slips.
On Sunday afternoon we gather to have a work party. We clean the mold off of the four year chips as we have not given one out for years. Just kidding. They do not get moldy, they just sit.
The birthday board is 1,1,1,2,2,3,3,11,11,12,13,15,16,18,19,21,22,22,etc .
But hey, its working, yea, this Drug Court thing is working.
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
