Why do so many people support lockdowns despite the mental health impact?
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Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 86
Why do so many people support lockdowns despite the mental health impact?
COVID lockdowns have been having a devastating effect on people's mental health, with the isolation, loneliness, uncertainty of the future & deprivation of things that make life worth living, and many more, a growth in alcohol consumption and other substance abuse and a rise in anxiety disorders. Still, what puzzles me is why there seems to be so much public support, even among people to whom the lockdowns are making their lives an utter misery.
I'm strongly in favour of the approach that's been used in Sweden; shielding the vulnerable and allowing everyone else to do business as usual and allow heard immunity to develop, that's how you reduce transmission, no fear of second wave.
Anyway, I'm not here to judge opinions on lockdown or tell you what to think, whether you're for lockdowns or against them, I just want to get a bit of show of opinions; for, against or neutral. If you support, what are your key reasons? If you don't support, what are your key reasons? I'm just very curious to see some viewpoints.
I'm strongly in favour of the approach that's been used in Sweden; shielding the vulnerable and allowing everyone else to do business as usual and allow heard immunity to develop, that's how you reduce transmission, no fear of second wave.
Anyway, I'm not here to judge opinions on lockdown or tell you what to think, whether you're for lockdowns or against them, I just want to get a bit of show of opinions; for, against or neutral. If you support, what are your key reasons? If you don't support, what are your key reasons? I'm just very curious to see some viewpoints.
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,432
In my country there’s been a concerted effort made to increase access for people to mental health support with things like Telehealth.
Pandemics are no respecters of mental illness, or any other kind of illness - but the lockdowns here in Australia have gotten us to a point where things are starting to open up again.
One state is the exception, where suburbs are being locked down again. With 75 cases in a day, there’s not much else that Government can do, Vulcan.
Its a tough call balancing lives lost and things like mental health.
I hope your recovery is going ok.
D
Pandemics are no respecters of mental illness, or any other kind of illness - but the lockdowns here in Australia have gotten us to a point where things are starting to open up again.
One state is the exception, where suburbs are being locked down again. With 75 cases in a day, there’s not much else that Government can do, Vulcan.
Its a tough call balancing lives lost and things like mental health.
I hope your recovery is going ok.
D
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Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 2,909
I am a big fan of people making their own lifestyle decisions without the government mandating them. However with that being said and not being sure if I am a cynical optimist or an optimistic cynic I can't help but remember this bit of insight from comedian Jerry Seinfeld:
"There are many things, that you can point to, that humans, are not smart. But my personal favorite would have to be, that we had to invent the helmet. What was happening, apparently, is that we were involved in a lot of activities that were cracking our heads.
We chose not to avoid these activities but instead come up with some sort of device to help us to continue to enjoy, our headcracking lifestyle.
The helmet.
Even that didn't work, because enough people weren't wearing them, so we had to come up with the helmet law, which is even stupider because the idea behind the helmet law is to preserve a brain, who's judgement is so poor, that it doesn't even try to prevent the cracking of the head it's in!"
and with that I am out. :~)
"There are many things, that you can point to, that humans, are not smart. But my personal favorite would have to be, that we had to invent the helmet. What was happening, apparently, is that we were involved in a lot of activities that were cracking our heads.
We chose not to avoid these activities but instead come up with some sort of device to help us to continue to enjoy, our headcracking lifestyle.
The helmet.
Even that didn't work, because enough people weren't wearing them, so we had to come up with the helmet law, which is even stupider because the idea behind the helmet law is to preserve a brain, who's judgement is so poor, that it doesn't even try to prevent the cracking of the head it's in!"
and with that I am out. :~)
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Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 86
^Don't get my started on bike helmet culture ha, ha! Getting people out of cars, getting short trips mode-shifted, that's a topic that needs discussion. For now I see what you're saying, & am also a big fan of people being free to exercise their choices to manage risk.
Anyway, what I want is to see a mixture of pro and anti-lockdown. Although I'm anti-lockdown you don't have to agree. If anything, I would like to see people who are pro-lockdown and their reasons for it. I want to see both sides of the argument, a show of opinions
Anyway, what I want is to see a mixture of pro and anti-lockdown. Although I'm anti-lockdown you don't have to agree. If anything, I would like to see people who are pro-lockdown and their reasons for it. I want to see both sides of the argument, a show of opinions
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Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: In my sanctuary, my home
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I have mixed emotions about the lockdowns. On one hand, I do believe they help curtail the spread of the virus. On the other hand, I do feel badly for small businesses who depend on their customers to keep the doors open.
To be honest, my life doesn't change either way. I am an introvert and a homebody, so rarely go out anyway. I have had my groceries delivered for years because I detest grocery shopping. Since developing neuropathy, my excursions are mainly for doctor visits and trips to the drug store. Other than that, I enjoy staying at home.
To be honest, my life doesn't change either way. I am an introvert and a homebody, so rarely go out anyway. I have had my groceries delivered for years because I detest grocery shopping. Since developing neuropathy, my excursions are mainly for doctor visits and trips to the drug store. Other than that, I enjoy staying at home.
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Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 2,684
Thanks for this thread, vulcan30! 
Wishing you well.
I'm home after being furloughed, though initially worked for weeks as an essential employee. Through the months, I've approached this COVID-19 threat with err on the side of caution and a wait and see attitude; so far, so good. Prayer helps a lot.
Sometimes I mind being home, other times not so much. I think of how much worse it could be and that helps.
My heart goes out to all who have been affected by the virus; it has been devastating for so many.
As far as the media here in the US -- it's a political game. They are using crises, including COVID-19, to manipulate via sensationalism. That is something we all could do well without.
Wishing you well.I'm home after being furloughed, though initially worked for weeks as an essential employee. Through the months, I've approached this COVID-19 threat with err on the side of caution and a wait and see attitude; so far, so good. Prayer helps a lot.
Sometimes I mind being home, other times not so much. I think of how much worse it could be and that helps.
My heart goes out to all who have been affected by the virus; it has been devastating for so many.
As far as the media here in the US -- it's a political game. They are using crises, including COVID-19, to manipulate via sensationalism. That is something we all could do well without.
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Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 86
One thing that puzzles me is that there's virtually no reporting on countries like Sweden and Belarus, Iceland or Japan that didn't lock-down. The reality is those countries didn't have the doomsday death rates that were predicted, they didn't suffer from hospitals being overwhelmed. In fact, their rates of infections, hospitalisations and deaths are following the same downward trends as everywhere else. If anything, the reason for terrible death rates in the UK and New York State in the US is due to patients being discharged into care homes. Knowing the elderly are at the highest risk, could you think of anything more stupid? I suspect the reason those countries are not being reported in the media is because governments are afraid that they may have made a mistake with the lockdown approach and that as time goes by
Also, quarantining healthy people at home with stay-at-home orders/house arrest, that's just plain idiotic. Whilst cocooning people in their homes might reduce transmission rates, it doesn't exaclty help the immune system. Depriving people of sunlight, exercise and social contact, do you think that increases or decreases the likelihood of catching diseases badly, needing hospital treatment and dying? I think that's a bit of a no-brainer.
It's long been known that in older people, loneliness is a health risk, that's known to suppress immune systems. Stay at home orders will only make the problem worse.
What's more concerning is that the whole debate about the various approaches to managing the crisis seems to be getting framed in this binary 'economy over lives' thing. There seems to be no discussion of the pros and cons of each approach, there seems to be this unquestioning, concensus is right, almost like a religion in a way (groupthink?); that's what I have a problem with. The truth is national lockdowns like this have NEVER been done in history. Cities have been quarantined during plagues in history but never whole countries and never on a global scale. The truth is, this is not the black death, this is not the 1918 'Spanish flu'. What about the Asian flu of the late 1950's? It is true that covid is dangerous to older people; the average age for hospitalization with covid involved is around 60, the average age of death with covid involve is about 80. For healthy people under 60 the likelihood of needing hospitalisation isn't any worse than a severe flu. We know so much more about this virus now than back in March. We now have a clearer picture of the total infection rate & that the fatality rate is actually a much lower proportion of infections than originally predicted.
Also, quarantining healthy people at home with stay-at-home orders/house arrest, that's just plain idiotic. Whilst cocooning people in their homes might reduce transmission rates, it doesn't exaclty help the immune system. Depriving people of sunlight, exercise and social contact, do you think that increases or decreases the likelihood of catching diseases badly, needing hospital treatment and dying? I think that's a bit of a no-brainer.
It's long been known that in older people, loneliness is a health risk, that's known to suppress immune systems. Stay at home orders will only make the problem worse.
What's more concerning is that the whole debate about the various approaches to managing the crisis seems to be getting framed in this binary 'economy over lives' thing. There seems to be no discussion of the pros and cons of each approach, there seems to be this unquestioning, concensus is right, almost like a religion in a way (groupthink?); that's what I have a problem with. The truth is national lockdowns like this have NEVER been done in history. Cities have been quarantined during plagues in history but never whole countries and never on a global scale. The truth is, this is not the black death, this is not the 1918 'Spanish flu'. What about the Asian flu of the late 1950's? It is true that covid is dangerous to older people; the average age for hospitalization with covid involved is around 60, the average age of death with covid involve is about 80. For healthy people under 60 the likelihood of needing hospitalisation isn't any worse than a severe flu. We know so much more about this virus now than back in March. We now have a clearer picture of the total infection rate & that the fatality rate is actually a much lower proportion of infections than originally predicted.
the girl can't help it
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: splendraville
Posts: 5,599
I have worked with the public all my life and I have noticed that during a flu season the sick ones come out in droves when they are running fevers and coughing all over everything. I started washing my hands right after dealing with these people and I was usually one of the only ones I worked with that didn't get sick.To me it was just common sense.
I can't stand wearing a mask and I have started letting grocery stores shop for me and I go pick them up. I shop a lot online too. I live in a rual area on a dirt road. I go outside everyday and work in my garden and walk my dogs. My life has not changed that much with the exception of grocery shopping.
I think the government treating us all like children unable to make our selves safe is very disarming. I went into one place where nobody including the employees were not wearing a mask. The place was so different compared to all the other places where all the employees were masked. The air smelled better and all the people seemed much happier. I think the masks are making people less safe.. If I looked into the eyes of these masked people most of them look terrified which I think really sucks. Keep calm and wash your hands people.
A government that is powerful to give you everything you need is powerful enough to take everything you have.
I can't stand wearing a mask and I have started letting grocery stores shop for me and I go pick them up. I shop a lot online too. I live in a rual area on a dirt road. I go outside everyday and work in my garden and walk my dogs. My life has not changed that much with the exception of grocery shopping.
I think the government treating us all like children unable to make our selves safe is very disarming. I went into one place where nobody including the employees were not wearing a mask. The place was so different compared to all the other places where all the employees were masked. The air smelled better and all the people seemed much happier. I think the masks are making people less safe.. If I looked into the eyes of these masked people most of them look terrified which I think really sucks. Keep calm and wash your hands people.
A government that is powerful to give you everything you need is powerful enough to take everything you have.
Want to form an alliance? :.)
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 220
I'm 100% against all of it and it's really beginning to wear on me to the point of losing family and friendships.
Much of my reasoning stems from how I think we have too many bad actors in play who benefit from it, whether it be via financially or fringe benefits (i.e. - additional authority or control over things or people). Some have axes to grind against Trump (trying to use this as leverage for regime change) but we also have some in government who use it to sneak things into legislation. We have business interests who benefit from it (see retailers, online sales and services, etc. and how many shops or grocers tend to use Covid-19 as an excuse for poor stocking practices or unnecessary employee reduction), many who just like to work from home or avoid going to school (which puts taxes and real estate in flux due to increased amounts of justification to question the virtue of preexisting physical spaces). These remote models have lead to a consolidation of cyber attack vectors for less secure and monopolized home internet providers and their networks. Hospitals receive payouts for Covid-19 declarations they process during postmortems, which isn't difficult to do as long as someone is found to be asymptomatic (so you could die from morbid obesity or a heart attack but if found to carry the virus without experiencing a single symptom, you're chalked up to having died from Covid-19 whereby the hospital coffers increase), something I'm sure is never fudged when done throughout rural American hospitals... I'm sure the medical research grant recipients follow suit in some way, shape, or form. Of course, you have those who legitimately fear for their lives but many of these people are hypocrites, too: I'm reminded of a man who walks around our office wearing a mask who is also notorious for never washing his hands when he finishes using the urinal, something I saw him do with his mask on one day while using the restroom. Many of these same people are emboldened to dictate how others should be living their lives, going as far as publicly-shaming those who opt to avoid face masks instead of just staying home themselves or simply avoiding proximity of those they find fault with.
From a policy standpoint, it's caused all sorts of havoc. It seems like every day an employer tends to change expectations, rules, or standards and this in and of itself does nothing but foster chaos and enable instability. It's caused consumers to be unsure about whether certain resources are available and if they are, how to go about using or obtaining them. Given many employers seem to be laying people off or terminating them outright, it's putting into jeopardy many livelihoods. I've noticed that people tend to use Covid-19 to their advantage when something comes up at work that they don't want to do, especially if it means being forced to walk outside in 90-degree heat.
The worst thing about all of this is the precedent that nobody seems to consider moving forward. From what I can tell, nothing is in place to prevent anyone of any seat of authority from exploiting the next bout of flu, and that goes for any side anyone can owe allegiance to.
It's just all-around bad.
Much of my reasoning stems from how I think we have too many bad actors in play who benefit from it, whether it be via financially or fringe benefits (i.e. - additional authority or control over things or people). Some have axes to grind against Trump (trying to use this as leverage for regime change) but we also have some in government who use it to sneak things into legislation. We have business interests who benefit from it (see retailers, online sales and services, etc. and how many shops or grocers tend to use Covid-19 as an excuse for poor stocking practices or unnecessary employee reduction), many who just like to work from home or avoid going to school (which puts taxes and real estate in flux due to increased amounts of justification to question the virtue of preexisting physical spaces). These remote models have lead to a consolidation of cyber attack vectors for less secure and monopolized home internet providers and their networks. Hospitals receive payouts for Covid-19 declarations they process during postmortems, which isn't difficult to do as long as someone is found to be asymptomatic (so you could die from morbid obesity or a heart attack but if found to carry the virus without experiencing a single symptom, you're chalked up to having died from Covid-19 whereby the hospital coffers increase), something I'm sure is never fudged when done throughout rural American hospitals... I'm sure the medical research grant recipients follow suit in some way, shape, or form. Of course, you have those who legitimately fear for their lives but many of these people are hypocrites, too: I'm reminded of a man who walks around our office wearing a mask who is also notorious for never washing his hands when he finishes using the urinal, something I saw him do with his mask on one day while using the restroom. Many of these same people are emboldened to dictate how others should be living their lives, going as far as publicly-shaming those who opt to avoid face masks instead of just staying home themselves or simply avoiding proximity of those they find fault with.
From a policy standpoint, it's caused all sorts of havoc. It seems like every day an employer tends to change expectations, rules, or standards and this in and of itself does nothing but foster chaos and enable instability. It's caused consumers to be unsure about whether certain resources are available and if they are, how to go about using or obtaining them. Given many employers seem to be laying people off or terminating them outright, it's putting into jeopardy many livelihoods. I've noticed that people tend to use Covid-19 to their advantage when something comes up at work that they don't want to do, especially if it means being forced to walk outside in 90-degree heat.
The worst thing about all of this is the precedent that nobody seems to consider moving forward. From what I can tell, nothing is in place to prevent anyone of any seat of authority from exploiting the next bout of flu, and that goes for any side anyone can owe allegiance to.
It's just all-around bad.
bona fido dog-lover
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: SF Bay area, CA
Posts: 99,776
I wash my hands often, wear a mask when I go into public spaces, like stores, and avoid crowds. My sister is a nurse in NYC and has seen firsthand the devastation covid 19 can cause.
Mask-wearing has become politicized when it's not a political issue but an issue of public health.
Even if my state had not mandated mask-wearing and staying home, I would have done so anyway, for my sake and the sake of anyone I encountered.
Mask-wearing has become politicized when it's not a political issue but an issue of public health.
Even if my state had not mandated mask-wearing and staying home, I would have done so anyway, for my sake and the sake of anyone I encountered.
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Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 8,633
In my country we are starting to reopen, say half reopened at this point (things like nightclubs are still closed, but bars are open). The numbers are inching up daily, not like U.S. numbers which have been increasing dramatically.
I do understand that isolation, for some, is very negative. I am a bit of an introvert generally anyway, so that doesn't affect me as much.
Most people here, since reopening began, do not wear masks, even the most vulnerable, but we are in the early stages and I do believe the numbers are going to start to really climb, I hope not but I have lost faith in people looking out for others.
I started wearing a mask before it was widely accepted here, my first trip to the grocery store I had some guy standing staring at me and shaking his head, so I told him to move along and mind his own business (yes, I really did).
If people could follow some simple guidelines, we would have much more freedom, but they obviously cannot. So perhaps when you think of freedom to go out being stymied, think more about those that don't wash their hands frequently, wear a mask in enclosed spaces and social distance, THOSE are the folks to watch out for, not the ones following the guidelines.
And no, I don't believe the lock down is the cause of the U.S. spread, if you aren't sure, just take a look at your neighbours to the North who also had a lock down. Sweden's record is not great, their morbidity rate for the size of their population is not great.
I do understand that isolation, for some, is very negative. I am a bit of an introvert generally anyway, so that doesn't affect me as much.
Most people here, since reopening began, do not wear masks, even the most vulnerable, but we are in the early stages and I do believe the numbers are going to start to really climb, I hope not but I have lost faith in people looking out for others.
I started wearing a mask before it was widely accepted here, my first trip to the grocery store I had some guy standing staring at me and shaking his head, so I told him to move along and mind his own business (yes, I really did).
If people could follow some simple guidelines, we would have much more freedom, but they obviously cannot. So perhaps when you think of freedom to go out being stymied, think more about those that don't wash their hands frequently, wear a mask in enclosed spaces and social distance, THOSE are the folks to watch out for, not the ones following the guidelines.
And no, I don't believe the lock down is the cause of the U.S. spread, if you aren't sure, just take a look at your neighbours to the North who also had a lock down. Sweden's record is not great, their morbidity rate for the size of their population is not great.
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Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 2,684
Originally Posted by vulcan30 
It is true that covid is dangerous to older people; the average age for hospitalization with covid involved is around 60, the average age of death with covid involve is about 80. For healthy people under 60 the likelihood of needing hospitalisation isn't any worse than a severe flu. We know so much more about this virus now than back in March. We now have a clearer picture of the total infection rate & that the fatality rate is actually a much lower proportion of infections than originally predicted.
Otherwise...
These days, technology is a blessing but also a curse; specific to being a curse -- e.g., social media and just the world wide web in general...so much damage can occur with misinformation, etc.
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