NeverLookinBack

Ah, I see that you are throwing trickery and word games into the mix here. Clever, but it does not change my opinion, and it certainly does not sway countless other mental health professionals into believing that depression is an illness. This is very complicated issue that is not as simple as you might think. You may or may not know this, but the usage of the term "mental illness" is still a debatable topic, without a doubt. Stanford is merely stating that depression falls under the umbrella of the overcomplicated and often highly debated term, "mental illness". The definition of "Mental illness" is controversial and arguable, and its usage has caused many debates and brought up many concerns since the early days of psychology. Look up on any search engine the countless arguments among the top psychiatrists and psychologists as to what defines a mental illness. It may surprise you.

Mental illness is a term that is extremely flexible, and it covers a highly debatable spectrum. According to the DSM-IV, anything diagnosable could be used under the umbrella of "mental illness" spectrum, depending on how you use the term. Even in cases of cigarette smoking, over-consumption of porn, and caffeine addiction. Do you really think that cigarette smoking, viewing pornography, and caffeine addictions are mental illnesses? They are however, diagnosable mental disorders, similar to depression. All you are doing here is playing word games. I don't like to play word games, I would rather have a reasonable and rational debate. There is far more to the term "mental illness" then meets the eye, especially to the average person that is not involved in the field of psychology. Perhaps you may want to learn more about the history, modern usage, and controversy surrounding the term "mental illness" before you make such a over-simplified argument about it. Your reply is far too simplistic for such a complex, controversial, and arguable subject.

After all, depression is technically a mental disorder, not a mental illness. There is no such thing that is technically a mental illness. The usage of mental illness is, like I previously stated, highly flexible and highly debatable. The usage of mental illness is a very controversial topic in the mental health field. In addition, there is a large push by the mental health community to stop using the word "mental illness" as it is outdated, overused, and carries a stigma. Really, what good does it do in the end? To help people rationalize their behaviors by blaming it on a so called "disease" or "illness", and stop doing work to improve their mental state? That is certainly not helpful. Remember, there are so many things that could qualify for a "mental illness" that it is useless to throw around the term for whatever falls into a diagnosable mental disorder under the DSM-IV. It is counterproductive and dangerous.

Psychologist John Grohol, explains it best in this article: What is Depression if not a Mental Illness? | Psych Central

NeverLookinBack

I would rather not go on and on about this subject. Like I said before, psychology is open to interpretation and it is also in a constant stage of change that conclusions are rarely decided upon. This debate is not about right or wrong, but accepting the many theories and arguments that many mental health professionals hold. Psychologists and mental health professionals are known for their openness and flexibility to the discovery of new things and interpretations. To say that the definition and use of "mental illness" is a decided conclusion among the mental health field cannot even be a debate in itself. The field of psychology is far too open and adjustable to ever let that happen. I think that I should end it here.

ClayTheScribe

NeverLookinBack, you're a piece of work. Look man I'm sure you think you know what you're talking about, but you don't. And first of all, I was diagnosed with depression BEFORE I started drinking or using drugs at age 15 and my psychiatrist has made NO diagnosis since I stopped drinking. I also took into account that when I was drinking and smoking weed that the drug abuse could make me seem bipolar, thus why I didn't accept the diagnosis. And depression, in my case is an illness, because many times I had a great, not depressing life, yet I was still depressed. I just got back from Thanksgiving where three of my cousins were there who suffer from depression and anxiety, as well as my grandma. Is that a coincidence? I think not, I think it is genetic even if scientists can't prove it.

And just because someone has a mental illness does not mean that they do nothing to improve their mental and emotional state. Of course that's why therapy is recommended in addition to psych meds. Illnesses can be treated and cured and I think you're playing semantics here with disorder and illness. For you to say it's just an emotional state is insulting and shows you have little grasp of depression, even if you've had it yourself. Why don't you let the professionals, many whom are good people, decide what's best.

Aysha

I am just curious. With all the research you have done. How much actual hands on experience do you have?
And when I say that, I dont mean experience in research and development.
I mean real hands on in the profession type of experience.
Have you formally worked with people suffering these things? Have you interviewed and observed a patient and drawn a conclusion and made a diagnosis before?
I am just curious.
Because in my own experience, It takes more than just research to know what your doing. IMO it takes infield experience. And that goes for anything IMO.
I have seen alot of very intelligent people. Really book smart. But not a drop of common sense in them.
That is not a shot at you. I am not saying you lack common sense. I am using it as an example that it takes more than research and reading a book to know what your talking about.

NeverLookinBack

I can see some of you are upset with my opinions on the topic, and I am sorry to see that. That is why I said I would end it. If you cannot handle my opinion with reason, respect, and logic, then I probably am wasting my time. This debate could go on for days, and I do not see any point in trying to convince certain people to look at a different point of view when they are not willing to listen with an open mind. Clay, I am sorry you feel like you must take shots at me for stating an honest and commonly held opinion about mental health. Maybe you should discuss these anger problems with your psychiatrist.

By the way, Aysha, only a licensed mental health professional can make a diagnosis and perform counseling. That is the purpose of these licenses. I reviewed and helped faculty with their findings since I am still at the undergraduate level. So, although I cannot personally involve myself with individuals in therapy, I contributed to the research involved. Since I am an undergraduate student, I am legally not able to do the things that you described. In no way did I ever state that I was a mental health professional. I just stated my opinion. One that is widely held across the globe by many individuals and professionals.

I am completely done with this thread at this point. Good luck to all of you.

box3

You know what they say about opinions.

I'm not playing semantic games, illness denotes pathology, ill-health, sickness. Despite the academic debate, especially from evolutionary psychologists, there is consensus among treating mental health professionals that depression, specifically major depressive disorder and its subtypes, is an illness. Unlike other mental illnesses which have frank psychotic features, like schizophrenia, the stigma surrounding depression has often resulted in the erroneous belief that recovery is simply a matter of mind over mood, that it's a character flaw, a product of laziness, a personal fault, a failure to adapt, or a weakness. This is untrue and utterly dangerous; depression is a medical condition, an illness with multiple triggers and without one clear cause (etiology). If it were as simple as making up your mind to get over it, most of us would have done so years ago. Depression killed my close colleague, she was my mentor, an exceptionally skilled and successful professional who had her sh!t together. She taught me that mental illness is nothing to be ashamed of, it doesn't define who you are or diminish your self-worth, it is an illness. She was sick and she died.

In my case, I've developed a type of cyclic depression that dramatically peaks after ovulation, most likely the best treatment plan is hormone therapy and it's something I will discuss with my doctor. While bettering my environment and naval gazing about my mood state is never a bad thing, it will never effectively treat my illness.

nandm

That in itself is a cheap shot at Clay and really was not necessary.

This answer sums up your experience for me. Until you have had actual experience with people who have depression or other mental illnesses all you truly have is your opinion not actual experience. One can read all the medical journals they want and write all the studies using the compiled results but until they have actually worked in the field their results are still just pen on paper not a true reflection of reality. You have no real life experience working with people with mental illness' therefore you are not a mental health professional and your opinion is just that of a well educated and probably well meaning person who has no real life experience to base their opinions on.

Most of us here live mental illness ourselves or have family members who have it. The real life experience says much more than any research study could ever tell me.

ClayTheScribe

It's kind of like me taking career advice from a journalism student who has never worked on a newspaper staff. They may have an interesting opinion, but it's just opinion. I listen to doctors who deal with people with mental illnesses everyday. I also like the point that depression is not simply mind over mood, otherwise I wouldn't be in the shape I'm in. I can have extraordinary days in my life and still be depressed because it's an illness.

And I'm actually a very calm person. I just get upset with *****s who make outstanding claims and don't offer much real-life or scientific proof. Back it up man.

Bamboozle

That last sentence is the most insulting thing I've read yet. My 'drugs' don't numb me out. They don't make me high or emotionless. For the first time in a long time I am normal. I still cry and feel pain. I still laugh and have a good time. I just feel normal. I don't walk around being hopeless anymore. I don't want to kill myself anymore. That's huge for me.

And dang right I'm getting emotional about this one. My therapist, my doctor, and my meds saved my life. Period. End of story. I couldn't make myself well by thinking about it. Depression is not having a simple case of the blues.

You don't know anything about me...nor do you know anything about the others here who had to fight for their lives and counter the bullsh!t mentality that psych meds are a scam. You are no expert, and simply b/c you are going into psychology does NOT make you more cognizant than other posters here.

People, don't listen to this crap. Don't even take my word for it. Again, talk to PROFESSIONAL health care workers.

Bamboozle

You'd do well to take your own advice.

Sugah

Just popping in with a little E, S & H...

I was diagnosed at 19 with BPD (along with depression and a few other things). I was textbook--I could recount thirty-four years full of risky, self-destructive, self-loathing drama-creating behavior. The more riled up my outsides, the calmer I felt inside. Although there were periods of my life where I tried hard to act "normal," inside, I felt insane. I felt so different from everyone around me. I could not imagine anyone understanding how I felt, though I pushed and pushed those around me to prove their love by attempting to understand. Everyone fell short.

And had I not found a spark of hope that life could be different, I'd likely have died in that state. I was using both to numb and to fuel the chaos that soothed me. It's too long a story to get into why and how I got sober, so let's just say that was the first step (and besides, I've told that story over and over here).

What I discovered in getting sober, and in the changes I needed to make in order to stay sober, was that my self-loathing was as much a manifestation of ego as any high opinion I might have of myself (such as considering myself to be more intelligent than most of the people around me). Both involved being overly focused on self--which cut me off from any possibility to relate and understand or be understood by others.

It wasn't an overnight process, but through consistent work (and faith), I "rejoined" the human race. I can only speak for my own experience: I have not required medication for many, many years and my BPD is gone. Of course, I still have ego, though it's mostly "right-sized," and I have a process for recognizing when it's getting out of control.

So...that's my experience.

Peace & Love,
Sugah

Drapetomaniac

If you're still reading this thread, thank you, thank you, thank you, neverlookinback for the work you're doing within the mental health industry. We certainly need more people advocating for patient's health then the usual course of advocating for pharmaceutical companies. Psychiatric medications can be dangerous and have harmed many people. Thank you again.

humblestudent

Wow - I am so disappointed to see that a person totally hijacked this thread and turned it into a debate about how a person should seek mental health treatment. ANYWAY - I am so glad that the original poster found help, and as a card carrying member of the bipolar 2 club, I can tell you through my personal experience, that working with my psych on getting my meds correct changed my life - for the better.

I find it absolutely ridiculous that a person who claims to be studying mental health, refers to depression as a "so-called" illness. It is an illness, an illness that kills people every day.

Spout the personal agendas someplace else. I'm not interested.