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Old 12-22-2017, 03:39 PM   #1 (permalink)
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AA and single women..


I was *extremely* reticent to post this but figured I’d throw this on the table given something similar was humorously alluded to in a recent men’s meeting. Forgive me if this is a rehash.

Anyway, my situation is like this in a nutshell. My wife and I have been separated for the past six months-mostly due to my relapse. It appears very much like it’s going to result in divorce. Fortunately, even with the alcohol abuse on my part it’s going to be an amicable parting.

I’ve alluded to this a few times in A.A. meetings that I’ve attended without getting too personal. I consider myself (although an admitted introvert) someone who is pretty genuine when trying to get to know people and believe that I don’t convey ulterior motives. I also understand that in order for the fellowship aspect to be beneficial I need to engage people. On more than one occasion when chatting with the more attractive single women in the group (actually two groups) there seemed to be an immediate ‘creep zoning’ if you will (similar to ‘friend zoning’ LOL) where that person is so unbelievably uncomfortable that I become uncomfortable as well. I honestly don’t think that I’ve ever experienced something like it before. I’ve wanted to alleviate this so bad that in one of the groups I’ve worn my wedding band just so there won’t be any suspicion.

Yes, the loneliness that I’ve dealt with (well, it’s even been present during the latter years of my marriage) may cause some perceptions to be amplified but I’ve made efforts to seem as innocuous as possible.

The men’s meeting statement resonated with me quite heavily—the proverbial elephant in the room is that no matter how much ‘singleness of purpose’ is spoken of the distraction of the opposite sex is a very real one and nobody can honestly say that they’ve not experienced that. I get the ‘odds are good and the goods are odd’ economics of AA groups and how women are going to be on their guard for predatory behavior. It’s not something I’m ignorant of. I consider myself reasonably sharp (dress, presentation etc.) so I don’t *think* I’m repulsive

Anyway, apologies for the rant. I just want to know from guys who’ve encountered this the best way to develop friendships and trust in the mixed-gender circles. I try hard as hell to not be disingenuous and wonder if there’s a flirtatious vibe that’s causing it.
Thoughts?

Thanks

T.
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Old 12-23-2017, 04:47 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I'm not in AA but maybe these women are there at a meeting for their recovery and being hit on or flirted with or whatever may be the last thing they want right now?

D
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Old 12-23-2017, 07:30 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I'm not in AA but maybe these women are there at a meeting for their recovery and being hit on or flirted with or whatever may be the last thing they want right now?

D
Definitely, D.

I guess this could've been a more AA-specific question (and in an appropriate forum). This is me wondering if any of the guys had experienced just general small talk being received as having ulterior motives attached to it to the nth degree. Maybe I'm answering my own question but I was looking more for relation to that specific type of instance.

Thanks,

T.
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Old 12-23-2017, 10:10 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Look at what's going on in the world right now.

It's abundantly clear that women want a safe space where they don't have to worry about dating being leered at or sexual power plays of any kind. Particularly at a very vulnerable time, like recovery.

But everyone is different. Plus I think we're ALL a little vulnerable and a lot of us are lonely in early recovery, particularly if a primary relationship ending was part of the bottom that got us there in the first place.

So there's all kinds of weird awkwardness floating about.

I used to think the not-dating-for-a-year rule was silly and overly long. I'm not so sure about that anymore. I'm having a group over for Xmas Eve dinner, and one person coming and I had instant and powerful chemistry. I kinda don't wanna deal with it tho. Then again, it's been a minute and although I have a great social circle (TOTAL extrovert here) and friends, I'm still lonely sometimes.

I need to find out more about where they are in their recovery. Plus it's ex-junkie/NA stuff, which is different from all of my addictions.

So Toddman, the easiest thing might be to stick with stag for a bit. How far along are you in recovery and how strong are you? I think the awkwardness will change as things progress on your own self-work.
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Old 12-25-2017, 01:39 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Honestly, I had enough going on in my head in early recovery, adding the emotional complexities of a relationship was like Russian roulette. I definitely understand now why women find it creepy and I see more hope in our recoveries when we focus on the program and date outside of the rooms.
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Old 12-28-2017, 06:41 AM   #6 (permalink)
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I would not touch a AA woman for all the cows in Texas
I already seen too much
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Old 12-28-2017, 06:49 AM   #7 (permalink)
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I just want to know from guys who’ve encountered this the best way to develop friendships and trust in the mixed-gender circles

right motives and T.I.M.E.
yup, had the small talk taken like i was lookin for something other then just small talk.my motive was right so it didnt bother me.

early recovery, the only ones i did small talk with were ones as sick as myself. the women that had been in recovery for some time only wanted to carry the message.
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Old 01-07-2018, 10:43 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Sounds like pure projection.

It's possible that you so desperately don't want to come across as a "creep" or/and you have insecurities about your motives coming across as genuine that you are projecting on to the other person believing it is they who feel these things about you....

Your unease is probably spilling out of your sub communications like blood from a wound and people (re women being more intuitive and sensitive to covert communications) pick up on pretty quickly.....

Two keys in social interactions: Don't have an agenda and do bring positive energy....
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Old 01-08-2018, 02:17 AM   #9 (permalink)
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In my experience in AA you are going to have a hard job of becoming friends with the opposite sex much more than you would outside. You have highlighted their fear of predators in the ruins and more importantly these are extraordinarily damaged women. Now imagine you were talking about a tennis club in your post, saying that you hated to make more women friends st the club the post would not be too dissimilar as women if your age-ish would assume that either you are weird fir wanting a female friend or that you wanted, either then or eventually, something else so in that respect You gave that to deal with also in your endeavours at AA. I went to the rooms fir years and my big mistake was doing what you are trying to do fir both sexes, make friends. The sooner you take the risk of finding a hobby/interest that will allow you to do this then the sooner you will make some friend maybe even if both sexes if you hang around with them long enough. The difference between AA friends and normal friends is the non AA ones will come with farces cobditions on the relationship and will be much healthier for you; if you go out in the drink fir the next month how many AA friends will want to hang out with you? Thatís not the definition of a friend. Rooms to keep sober, socialise (if you can call it that) if you want but out efforts to improve your social life into something else, AA is not a one stop shop and be careful listening to all the stories of how AA is someoneís family and my social life has never been better etc as you are not dealing with normal people with normal perceptions/backgrounds. Hope that helps.
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Old 01-08-2018, 02:30 AM   #10 (permalink)
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if you go out in the drink fir the next month how many AA friends will want to hang out with you? That’s not the definition of a friend.
I'm not in AA myself but just from this site alone I've never found AA, or AAers to be anywhere near as monolithic as you're making out Eli

If I was drinking the people hanging out with me wouldn't be my friends either - been there done that. They're drinking buddies.

I think I'd prefer the AAers to be honest Eli - they might give me some straight talking and may be even a little gruff - but they'd have my back and help me stop drinking again.

that to me is the definition of friend?

D
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Old 01-10-2018, 01:46 PM   #11 (permalink)
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In my experience in AA you are going to have a hard job of becoming friends with the opposite sex much more than you would outside. You have highlighted their fear of predators in the ruins and more importantly these are extraordinarily damaged women. Now imagine you were talking about a tennis club in your post, saying that you hated to make more women friends st the club the post would not be too dissimilar as women if your age-ish would assume that either you are weird fir wanting a female friend or that you wanted, either then or eventually, something else so in that respect You gave that to deal with also in your endeavours at AA. I went to the rooms fir years and my big mistake was doing what you are trying to do fir both sexes, make friends. The sooner you take the risk of finding a hobby/interest that will allow you to do this then the sooner you will make some friend maybe even if both sexes if you hang around with them long enough. The difference between AA friends and normal friends is the non AA ones will come with farces cobditions on the relationship and will be much healthier for you; if you go out in the drink fir the next month how many AA friends will want to hang out with you? Thatís not the definition of a friend. Rooms to keep sober, socialise (if you can call it that) if you want but out efforts to improve your social life into something else, AA is not a one stop shop and be careful listening to all the stories of how AA is someoneís family and my social life has never been better etc as you are not dealing with normal people with normal perceptions/backgrounds. Hope that helps.
Excellent post which is based on your years of attending aa meetings in person.

I don't think you are being critical when you say a "friendship" in aa is CONDITIONAL. This is stating something that is GENERALLY TRUE most of the time and based on your personal experience. The friendship is conditional once you stay sober and remain in aa. In my very limited experience in NA what you described was true....I actually created a whatsapp group with a couple of numbers I was given as I couldn't find the bloody entrance to the meeting! (long story, it's in the city centre but through some windy streets one must go...)....I went......couple of weeks later......had a binge which knocked me for six...........nobody from na text or called to say..."hey you didn't come, everything alright?" Friends from the gym called! Other friends called!

Granted....why should they? I wasn't there for long and I didn't "get sticky"......but the point you're making is an excellent one.....CHECK YOUR EXPECTATIONS...

I think that was my problem........my own expectations. "they should have called, if they cared, if they were friends" and their behavior didn't meet my expectations and that ticked me off probably....

What your saying is solid advice for anyone who wishes to go.....keep your expectations in check.
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