The amount of manipulation is unreal
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 20
The amount of manipulation is unreal
I have posted here 2 years ago on my story of how my exabf used his mother’s death (whom I loved dearly) as a way to guilt trip me to get off his back when he was using. Well long story short, I stayed with him until June 2018 and finally we broke it off, after he rammed his car into my garage after raging out on me and made himself look like the victim....it was utter he!!
During the year-long separation, I fell into a deep depression after losing my so-called “best friend” but finally gained clarity and realized what I deserved. I even got into a healthy new relationship. I was doing much better for myself mentally and spiritually until my exabf reached out after a year of no contact to inform me of his father’s diagnosis of cancer. I was completely devastated to hear this news as his mother had just passed away 2 years prior and I still held love for my ex and his family. But I was still in the new relationship at the time and just said I had his dad in my prayers. Well 3 months go by and my ex reaches out again, and this was right after I had broken off the healthy relationship. Having my new boundaries in place and the strength I thought I had, I continued to talk to him and fell into his words of “change” and how he’s now on the “straight and narrow.” He even said that he knows he had manipulated me in the past but will never do it again....I eventually agreed to meet with him and when I did he cried and expressed so much remorse that I truly believed him. I foolishly decided to give it another shot, thinking that a year apart made us both realize things and how “real” our love was.
Lesson learned though. For the 2 months we tried working things out, old behaviors started coming back and I knew he hadn’t really changed. I realized that I had let him back in due to the “guilt” I’d feel if I never acknowledged his dad who was sick had I not been there (it’s a sick codependent trait as I always cared what people thought of me and felt that I had to “prove” how good of a person I am.) Throughout the 2 months, anytime I’d call him out for acting strange he’d throw his dad being sick into the mix to guilt me into backing off. He even got me to give him money saying that his dad said he wasn’t allowed to spend as his lawyer fees and fines had racked him up in debt (his dad kept track of all his spendings as my ex is impulsive being the addict he is)....the light bulb went off and I realized that was his way of manipulating me to give him $$ for drugs. How blind I become when it comes to him mind boggles me.
My ex broke it off again stating that we’re “incompatible” most likely because I don’t do drugs. He also used his dad’s illness to make me feel like this horrible person who only brought stress into his life...so for 2 weeks I felt absolute guilt for sticking to my boundaries which made me feel as if I was not being empathetic enough to his situation. I was being strong though and held no contact. Last week though my ex’s dad had suddenly passed away (we all were under the impression that it was going to get worse before it got better) and I was devastated. My ex then said to me “now do you understand why we had to be cut off?” Which made me feel like this TERRIBLE person. Of course being the codependent I am, I felt I had to prove to him that I wasn’t. We ended the phone call with I love yous and him saying he would like me to come to the services. A few days later I went to the services and the first thing he said was “this is why we had to end” and I just kept saying that I didn’t know, because I honestly didn’t know how bad his dad’s cancer had gotten. Now I now realize that he should’ve thanked me for being there, not give me the guilt trip in the middle of the wake....I blamed myself for it ending, thinking I was this mean person. when in reality he never changed and left because he couldn’t break thru my boundaries.
All this has taught me is that addicts will do and say whatever they have to in order to maintain their false sense of control. I no longer am blaming myself for feeling like I was not sympathetic enough to his circumstances. If anything, my ex shouldn’t have opened the can of worms (our relationship) and instead should’ve been there for his dad. He will do ANYTHING to avoid reality, no matter who gets hurt in the process, and then twists it to make himself the victim. I feel sorry that he has lost both parents at the young age of 26, but that will never warrant the manipulation he uses to get by in life. The disease of addiction is sick. But I’m grateful for the clarity I now see. All of his behaviors and words are because of him, not me. None of it is my fault, that’s just who is he now and that’s very very sad.
During the year-long separation, I fell into a deep depression after losing my so-called “best friend” but finally gained clarity and realized what I deserved. I even got into a healthy new relationship. I was doing much better for myself mentally and spiritually until my exabf reached out after a year of no contact to inform me of his father’s diagnosis of cancer. I was completely devastated to hear this news as his mother had just passed away 2 years prior and I still held love for my ex and his family. But I was still in the new relationship at the time and just said I had his dad in my prayers. Well 3 months go by and my ex reaches out again, and this was right after I had broken off the healthy relationship. Having my new boundaries in place and the strength I thought I had, I continued to talk to him and fell into his words of “change” and how he’s now on the “straight and narrow.” He even said that he knows he had manipulated me in the past but will never do it again....I eventually agreed to meet with him and when I did he cried and expressed so much remorse that I truly believed him. I foolishly decided to give it another shot, thinking that a year apart made us both realize things and how “real” our love was.
Lesson learned though. For the 2 months we tried working things out, old behaviors started coming back and I knew he hadn’t really changed. I realized that I had let him back in due to the “guilt” I’d feel if I never acknowledged his dad who was sick had I not been there (it’s a sick codependent trait as I always cared what people thought of me and felt that I had to “prove” how good of a person I am.) Throughout the 2 months, anytime I’d call him out for acting strange he’d throw his dad being sick into the mix to guilt me into backing off. He even got me to give him money saying that his dad said he wasn’t allowed to spend as his lawyer fees and fines had racked him up in debt (his dad kept track of all his spendings as my ex is impulsive being the addict he is)....the light bulb went off and I realized that was his way of manipulating me to give him $$ for drugs. How blind I become when it comes to him mind boggles me.
My ex broke it off again stating that we’re “incompatible” most likely because I don’t do drugs. He also used his dad’s illness to make me feel like this horrible person who only brought stress into his life...so for 2 weeks I felt absolute guilt for sticking to my boundaries which made me feel as if I was not being empathetic enough to his situation. I was being strong though and held no contact. Last week though my ex’s dad had suddenly passed away (we all were under the impression that it was going to get worse before it got better) and I was devastated. My ex then said to me “now do you understand why we had to be cut off?” Which made me feel like this TERRIBLE person. Of course being the codependent I am, I felt I had to prove to him that I wasn’t. We ended the phone call with I love yous and him saying he would like me to come to the services. A few days later I went to the services and the first thing he said was “this is why we had to end” and I just kept saying that I didn’t know, because I honestly didn’t know how bad his dad’s cancer had gotten. Now I now realize that he should’ve thanked me for being there, not give me the guilt trip in the middle of the wake....I blamed myself for it ending, thinking I was this mean person. when in reality he never changed and left because he couldn’t break thru my boundaries.
All this has taught me is that addicts will do and say whatever they have to in order to maintain their false sense of control. I no longer am blaming myself for feeling like I was not sympathetic enough to his circumstances. If anything, my ex shouldn’t have opened the can of worms (our relationship) and instead should’ve been there for his dad. He will do ANYTHING to avoid reality, no matter who gets hurt in the process, and then twists it to make himself the victim. I feel sorry that he has lost both parents at the young age of 26, but that will never warrant the manipulation he uses to get by in life. The disease of addiction is sick. But I’m grateful for the clarity I now see. All of his behaviors and words are because of him, not me. None of it is my fault, that’s just who is he now and that’s very very sad.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: USA
Posts: 980
Im sorry Kcar
Your story timeline & mine run about the same.
I know how it all feels its a nightmare.
Unfortunately the only answer I know of is to stay away from their BS. Don't get dragged back in. I know it hurts & is not easy.
I hope you find some peace in all of this.
Your story timeline & mine run about the same.
I know how it all feels its a nightmare.
Unfortunately the only answer I know of is to stay away from their BS. Don't get dragged back in. I know it hurts & is not easy.
I hope you find some peace in all of this.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 20
Thank you for your response HardLessons. I have not responded to his last text thanking me for coming to the funeral, followed by how we’re toxic for each other. I understand how codependency is toxic...what bothers me is the lack of accountability on his part. He is in just so much denial. I want to call him out SO bad but what good will that do. Plus he’s grieving his dad so I’m not going to be heartless and do that at this time. I’m just angry and hurt yet again for being deceived and blamed.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 8,637
What a horrible spot to be in and the manipulation put forth by him is just horrendous!
You're right, there is pretty much nothing he will stop at when it comes to getting others to toe the line (which is whatever he wants when he wants it).
I'm glad you have decided to stick to your boundaries.
Are you now convinced that this is not the guy for you? I surely hope so, this is a lost cause as it stands now.
You didn't Cause it, can't Control it and can't Cure it. No amount of attention, boundary breaking, kindness, love, putting yourself on the back burner is going to make one iota of difference here. This is not about you, this is ALL about him and his self-absorbed thinking and behaviour.
Might be a good idea to go no-contact at this point perhaps? Have you considered that? His messages do you absolutely zero good.
So much better for you to focus back on yourself and what you want.
You're right, there is pretty much nothing he will stop at when it comes to getting others to toe the line (which is whatever he wants when he wants it).
I'm glad you have decided to stick to your boundaries.
Are you now convinced that this is not the guy for you? I surely hope so, this is a lost cause as it stands now.
You didn't Cause it, can't Control it and can't Cure it. No amount of attention, boundary breaking, kindness, love, putting yourself on the back burner is going to make one iota of difference here. This is not about you, this is ALL about him and his self-absorbed thinking and behaviour.
Might be a good idea to go no-contact at this point perhaps? Have you considered that? His messages do you absolutely zero good.
So much better for you to focus back on yourself and what you want.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 8,637
Wanted to mention you might want to take a look at the Friends and Family of Alcoholics forum:
https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums...ly-alcoholics/
Plenty of posts there you can probably relate to and join in if you like, of course.
Also in the stickies, you might find these helpful:
https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums...c-reading.html (Classic Reading)
https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums...ly-alcoholics/
Plenty of posts there you can probably relate to and join in if you like, of course.
Also in the stickies, you might find these helpful:
https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums...c-reading.html (Classic Reading)
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 20
Thank you for your insight trailmix,
I just can't believe he would pull something like that...but in the past he sent me a photo of his mom's grave to get me to feel bad when I wasn't speaking to him due to relapse, so I shouldn't be that surprised. It's crazy how I waver back and forth from anger to feeling sorry for him/worrying. Part of me wants to reach out to see how he's holding up since I never texted him back when we discussed how we're "toxic," where I caved and told him that I agree we are, and that I wish I had known the full extent of his dad's illness because had I known then I would've backed away and not have held such high boundaries for him to prove to me he was serious this time around....me being the doormat again (but in all honestly it was literally the day after his dad's funeral so I didn't want to stir the pot). I do worry for him though. He's living in his dad's house alone now so who knows who he's hanging out with. But on the other hand, he was SO cold to me and cut me out just as fast as he had roped me back in a whole year later. It's all extremely hurtful and confusing, but I have to keep reminding myself that that's what addicts do.
I just can't believe he would pull something like that...but in the past he sent me a photo of his mom's grave to get me to feel bad when I wasn't speaking to him due to relapse, so I shouldn't be that surprised. It's crazy how I waver back and forth from anger to feeling sorry for him/worrying. Part of me wants to reach out to see how he's holding up since I never texted him back when we discussed how we're "toxic," where I caved and told him that I agree we are, and that I wish I had known the full extent of his dad's illness because had I known then I would've backed away and not have held such high boundaries for him to prove to me he was serious this time around....me being the doormat again (but in all honestly it was literally the day after his dad's funeral so I didn't want to stir the pot). I do worry for him though. He's living in his dad's house alone now so who knows who he's hanging out with. But on the other hand, he was SO cold to me and cut me out just as fast as he had roped me back in a whole year later. It's all extremely hurtful and confusing, but I have to keep reminding myself that that's what addicts do.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 8,637
Originally Posted by kcar11 
I just can't believe he would pull something like that
The grave picture - again, totally appalling.
Few things come to mind. First of all, you have been living with this insanity (yes, that is what it is at this point) for quite some time. When we do that the abnormal can almost become normal.
For instance, sending that picture of his Mother's grave to get you to feel sorry for him, that is so way out of the realm of any kind of normal behaviour, but you probably weren't that shocked at the time?
When he said “now do you understand why we had to be cut off?” His Father was unwell, you were trying to be supportive but you two were not getting along? I guess that's what he means. To bring that up, more than once, is again, horrendous, but he did. That's not normal either. Hurtful thing to say and certainly doesn't need to be repeated.
All the drama and trials and manipulations and self-serving addictive behaviours aside, he treats you so disrespectfully. This is not surprising at all, not anything to do with you, this is addiction.
You can spare some sympathy for him of course, some empathy, but if you go back to him you will be signing up for more of the same abusive behaviour. Why would you do that to yourself? Are you prepared to sacrifice yourself for his addiction?
Addiction doesn't just destroy the addict's life, it harms the lives of all the people that come in to contact with it. I think maybe you don't want addiction calling the shots in your life anymore, because when you are in such a relationship, it surely is.
Have you read Codependent No More by Melody Beatty? It is very often recommended here. Not saying you are or aren't codependent, of course, but there is a lot of good information in there on relationships and boundaries.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 20
Thank you so much for your input trailmix,
We weren't getting along because old behaviors (slurring, being late, hyper one minute then drowsy the next, grumpiness, white powder under his nose that he denied) were causing me to put my guard up since this was our second go-around. I kept voicing my thoughts and observations on his behaviors and reiterated that I was not jumping back into this until he showed me change with his actions, but unfortunately he did not and that resulted in us bickering. And when we'd bicker, that's when he'd bring up his dad's illness as a way to guilt trip me when I would restate my newfound boundaries of what/wasn't acceptable.
I never fully integrated back into his life, as we were taking things slow, but I tried being supportive by listening and reminding him that going home reeking of weed with his dad home sick was causing unnecessary stress. Of course nothing I said got through to him and I was just seen as a "nag." It was our old relationship all over again. I can see how us bickering wasn't a good time with his dad being sick....but my ex shouldn't have reached out to me in the first place trying to make things work, he should've put his full focus on his dad, because we had MANY issues that needed to be worked through, but my ex who avoids everything gets mad when I "bring up the past" even though it pertained to the present.
I realize that I should not have given it another go and that was my mistake. I just feel this immense guilt that I wasn't being as supportive as he wanted me to be...but it had been an entire year since we had spoken. I think he expected me to take on the old GF role to provide endless emotional support, but I couldn't do that until he proved to me he had changed. So basically I still feel guilty for some reason, probably because his dad passed even though that isn't my fault. The whole situation has my mind twisted and foggy.
I have read Codependent No More, his mom had recommended it to me actually....I should probably give it another read. It is all complete insanity that I voluntarily put myself through this again. Thank you so much again I appreciate your input so much.
We weren't getting along because old behaviors (slurring, being late, hyper one minute then drowsy the next, grumpiness, white powder under his nose that he denied) were causing me to put my guard up since this was our second go-around. I kept voicing my thoughts and observations on his behaviors and reiterated that I was not jumping back into this until he showed me change with his actions, but unfortunately he did not and that resulted in us bickering. And when we'd bicker, that's when he'd bring up his dad's illness as a way to guilt trip me when I would restate my newfound boundaries of what/wasn't acceptable.
I never fully integrated back into his life, as we were taking things slow, but I tried being supportive by listening and reminding him that going home reeking of weed with his dad home sick was causing unnecessary stress. Of course nothing I said got through to him and I was just seen as a "nag." It was our old relationship all over again. I can see how us bickering wasn't a good time with his dad being sick....but my ex shouldn't have reached out to me in the first place trying to make things work, he should've put his full focus on his dad, because we had MANY issues that needed to be worked through, but my ex who avoids everything gets mad when I "bring up the past" even though it pertained to the present.
I realize that I should not have given it another go and that was my mistake. I just feel this immense guilt that I wasn't being as supportive as he wanted me to be...but it had been an entire year since we had spoken. I think he expected me to take on the old GF role to provide endless emotional support, but I couldn't do that until he proved to me he had changed. So basically I still feel guilty for some reason, probably because his dad passed even though that isn't my fault. The whole situation has my mind twisted and foggy.
I have read Codependent No More, his mom had recommended it to me actually....I should probably give it another read. It is all complete insanity that I voluntarily put myself through this again. Thank you so much again I appreciate your input so much.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 8,637
Originally Posted by kcar11
So basically I still feel guilty for some reason, probably because his dad passed even though that isn't my fault. The whole situation has my mind twisted and foggy.
You would have to be pretty hard-hearted to be able to deflect all of that. So how do you shake it?
With so many things related to this type of situation, putting it in context, in perspective is so important. The truth is his Mother dying and him feeling bad about it had nothing to do with you, his sending the picture was 100 percent self serving.
You couldn't be there for him while his Father was ill because he asked you not to be so when you back off he tries to make you feel guilty for backing off! Your behaviour was not as he deemed it "should" be. Really? He breaks all your boundaries, you get upset (rightfully so) and he blames you. This all makes no sense btw (the insanity).
Damned if you do and damned if you don't. See how that works?
So he inherits his Father's house now? Perhaps a bit of cash? If so you probably won't hear from him for a while.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 20
That's EXACTLY the perspective to have. Thank you for making it clear in the way you put it all because the guilt I am feeling has really clouded my mind. I just keep trying to remind myself that he's an addict and they are master manipulators, but it's hard when the guilt creeps in. And I hate to say this, but the death of his parents I think is almost like a "gold card" for him to act however way he wants with no regard to how others feel. I'm not saying that his circumstances aren't horrible, but the way he behaves while under the influence of drugs in these dark times is purely twisted.
And you guessed it. He is most likely inheriting a couple million if the primary beneficiary, his older sister who is the only one who's not an addict (his other sister is a heroin addict) grants him full access right away. It is all scary to think what he will do when he gets his hands on that money. I just have to keep telling myself that he's not my problem anymore and never should've been. And of course I haven't heard from him. He's most likely "busy" partying and getting high. He even told me he got drunk at the bar the night of his dad's service. It is complete insanity that I just cannot wrap my head around.
And you guessed it. He is most likely inheriting a couple million if the primary beneficiary, his older sister who is the only one who's not an addict (his other sister is a heroin addict) grants him full access right away. It is all scary to think what he will do when he gets his hands on that money. I just have to keep telling myself that he's not my problem anymore and never should've been. And of course I haven't heard from him. He's most likely "busy" partying and getting high. He even told me he got drunk at the bar the night of his dad's service. It is complete insanity that I just cannot wrap my head around.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 8,637
Yes, it is not your problem anymore and thankfully not.
And it is truly out of the realm of sanity or what is considered normal, logical behaviour and thinking.
The longer you are away from him the more the fog will lift (fear, obligation, guilt) but it's not easy, I totally understand that. We are not taught to be cruel or mean or uncaring. We are taught to extend kindness to those that need it. The problem being it just doesn't apply in this type of dysfunctional relationship because the counter, the balance to that is not there.
His one true love is the drugs.
The other person will just take and take and take until you have nothing more to give, because you are drained. It's sad, nothing good about that type of situation or being in it or leaving it, it's all hurtful.
Doesn't mean you have to not care, just from a distance, hope he finds recovery someday.
However, now is the time to start looking after yourself. All the time and thoughtfulness you gave him, how about giving that to yourself. I mean, really be nice to yourself.
What about no contact, if not, do you think that is in some way being available to him if he "needs" you and is that wise? Is he worthy of your trust in not trying to drag you in to all this again?
And it is truly out of the realm of sanity or what is considered normal, logical behaviour and thinking.
The longer you are away from him the more the fog will lift (fear, obligation, guilt) but it's not easy, I totally understand that. We are not taught to be cruel or mean or uncaring. We are taught to extend kindness to those that need it. The problem being it just doesn't apply in this type of dysfunctional relationship because the counter, the balance to that is not there.
His one true love is the drugs.
The other person will just take and take and take until you have nothing more to give, because you are drained. It's sad, nothing good about that type of situation or being in it or leaving it, it's all hurtful.
Doesn't mean you have to not care, just from a distance, hope he finds recovery someday.
However, now is the time to start looking after yourself. All the time and thoughtfulness you gave him, how about giving that to yourself. I mean, really be nice to yourself.
What about no contact, if not, do you think that is in some way being available to him if he "needs" you and is that wise? Is he worthy of your trust in not trying to drag you in to all this again?
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 20
Thank you for all of your encouragement and input trailmix
I know no contact is the smart way to go to protect myself. I guess I would feel cold hearted to completely block him out considering his depressing circumstances right now. I know it sounds like I want to leave a door open, but I do truly care for him and just cannot see myself cutting ties. I am not blaming myself for what happened to him and now see how much it all really is the drugs talking. No one teaches us the right way to deal with these situations...and everyone in my life tells me to cut him off which I understand, it is just so much harder when it's the person you spent every waking moment with for 3 years. I just don't want him to feel alone right now, but I know he has others to rely on. We promised to be there for each other no matter what, but at the same time he never kept his promises to me so that should be out the window too. It's so tough when you care about someone and have a little too much empathy
I know that I will always care and have a soft spot for him in my heart, it will just have to be from a distance.
I know no contact is the smart way to go to protect myself. I guess I would feel cold hearted to completely block him out considering his depressing circumstances right now. I know it sounds like I want to leave a door open, but I do truly care for him and just cannot see myself cutting ties. I am not blaming myself for what happened to him and now see how much it all really is the drugs talking. No one teaches us the right way to deal with these situations...and everyone in my life tells me to cut him off which I understand, it is just so much harder when it's the person you spent every waking moment with for 3 years. I just don't want him to feel alone right now, but I know he has others to rely on. We promised to be there for each other no matter what, but at the same time he never kept his promises to me so that should be out the window too. It's so tough when you care about someone and have a little too much empathy
I know that I will always care and have a soft spot for him in my heart, it will just have to be from a distance.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 8,637
It will take time and distance to get true perspective on this.
Now, again, in a normal situation, where you have had a close relationship with someone and it "romantically ends" there is, of course a possibility of maintaining a friendship, although it's not necessarily the norm.
In order to do that though, you need to have time and space to end that part of the relationship.
You have this history of him trying to manipulate you to be there for him when he wants you there, on his timetable. There is nothing, if you keep those lines of communication open, to stop that from happening again.
It is playing with fire and no matter what your friends say or I say or anyone else says, only you know if your boundaries are strong enough to ensure you are not going to be dragged back in to his world of addiction. You deserve much better treatment you know. You deserve respect and kindness.
You might find these articles interesting as well:
Addiction, Lies and Relationships
"As the addictive process claims more of the addict's self and lifeworld his addiction becomes his primary relationship to the detriment of all others. Strange as it sounds to speak of a bottle of alcohol, a drug, a gambling obsession or any other such compulsive behavior as a love object, this is precisely what goes on in advanced addictive illness. This means that in addiction there is always infidelity to other love objects such as spouses and other family - for the very existence of addiction signifies an allegiance that is at best divided and at worst -and more commonly- betrayed. For there comes a stage in every serious addiction at which the paramount attachment of the addict is to the addiction itself. Those unfortunates who attempt to preserve a human relationship to individuals in the throes of progressive addiction almost always sense their own secondary "less than" status in relation to the addiction - and despite the addict's passionate and indignant denials of this reality, they are right: the addict does indeed love his addiction more than he loves them"
Now, again, in a normal situation, where you have had a close relationship with someone and it "romantically ends" there is, of course a possibility of maintaining a friendship, although it's not necessarily the norm.
In order to do that though, you need to have time and space to end that part of the relationship.
You have this history of him trying to manipulate you to be there for him when he wants you there, on his timetable. There is nothing, if you keep those lines of communication open, to stop that from happening again.
It is playing with fire and no matter what your friends say or I say or anyone else says, only you know if your boundaries are strong enough to ensure you are not going to be dragged back in to his world of addiction. You deserve much better treatment you know. You deserve respect and kindness.
You might find these articles interesting as well:
Addiction, Lies and Relationships
"As the addictive process claims more of the addict's self and lifeworld his addiction becomes his primary relationship to the detriment of all others. Strange as it sounds to speak of a bottle of alcohol, a drug, a gambling obsession or any other such compulsive behavior as a love object, this is precisely what goes on in advanced addictive illness. This means that in addiction there is always infidelity to other love objects such as spouses and other family - for the very existence of addiction signifies an allegiance that is at best divided and at worst -and more commonly- betrayed. For there comes a stage in every serious addiction at which the paramount attachment of the addict is to the addiction itself. Those unfortunates who attempt to preserve a human relationship to individuals in the throes of progressive addiction almost always sense their own secondary "less than" status in relation to the addiction - and despite the addict's passionate and indignant denials of this reality, they are right: the addict does indeed love his addiction more than he loves them"
Member
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 319
When I hear stories like this, it always makes me wonder how the person presents in front of other people. As in, the person figures out what “works” on who. So if sincerity, guilt and kindness are what they sniff out and exploit in one person, but they come across someone else who that doesn’t work on, what tactics are they using to try to manipulate a person with a different personality . Just something I wonder about, because chameleon like qualities are not uncommon in these situations.
As far as being supportive of someone in death, I’ve been in this type of a situation before too. It was a long time ago, but it was with an old boyfriend who I was planning on breaking up with (he was away working for a few months at the time). However, while he was away, a family member of his died tragically in an accident, and it shook him, and his whole family up (some family members I was close to at the time). So then the timing felt off, and I stayed with him. And really, all it did was drag things out for another year, and put me in harm’s way during that time, as he got worse. I finally wisened up, that keep contact with him wasn’t doing anyone any good, and broke free of that whole mess.
I also agree with what Trailmix said above regarding boundaries. You know your own situation and how it’s been going, what kinds of trouble you’ve gotten yourself into before (giving him money, getting hooked emotionally with the guilt tripping). Is it realistic to expect that your boundaries are going to be so different all of a sudden? That takes *hard* work to change. Also, in my experience, it’s not easy to reign things in, sometimes impossible, once things are an unboundaried mess and those dynamics are already in place. Chances are, he’ll most likely just use his father’s death to manipulate even more, and it will hurt you, not him. :/
As far as being supportive of someone in death, I’ve been in this type of a situation before too. It was a long time ago, but it was with an old boyfriend who I was planning on breaking up with (he was away working for a few months at the time). However, while he was away, a family member of his died tragically in an accident, and it shook him, and his whole family up (some family members I was close to at the time). So then the timing felt off, and I stayed with him. And really, all it did was drag things out for another year, and put me in harm’s way during that time, as he got worse. I finally wisened up, that keep contact with him wasn’t doing anyone any good, and broke free of that whole mess.
I also agree with what Trailmix said above regarding boundaries. You know your own situation and how it’s been going, what kinds of trouble you’ve gotten yourself into before (giving him money, getting hooked emotionally with the guilt tripping). Is it realistic to expect that your boundaries are going to be so different all of a sudden? That takes *hard* work to change. Also, in my experience, it’s not easy to reign things in, sometimes impossible, once things are an unboundaried mess and those dynamics are already in place. Chances are, he’ll most likely just use his father’s death to manipulate even more, and it will hurt you, not him. :/
Member
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: USA
Posts: 980
Kcar
I re-read your first thread on SR from back in October 2017. I know this is your life & you've been living through all of this but perhaps it might do you some good to read your first thread again?
So back in Oct 2017 your life was a mess with this guy. As a side note back in Oct 2017 my life was a mess with my addict. Its much easier for me to talk about you then me talk about me LOL. I did give you words of wisdom back then.
A couple points from back then:
1. His mother before she passed warned you about him.
2. Your father who was an addict, recovered, & works drug counseling (he knows what he is talking about) said your BF is the greatest manipulator he has ever met!
3. Your young & have so much going for you
Current time - Well
1. Your still allowing Mr. master manipulator to mess up your life.
2. From what I read Oct 2017 he was an addict the entire time you knew him. Oct 2019 still an addict yes? Sure sounds like it. FYI mine still is.
3. You couldn't take it back in Oct 2017 & still cant Oct 2019 (very understandable)
4. So you have an addict about to inherit big bucks. That's akin to mixing nitro & glycerin while holding an open flame. How do I know - been there done that. You don't want to be in close proximity when that goes off.
While our stories are different they are also the same. If you want a good dose of what not to do in this situation then please read my threads. She is what she is & I know (knew) exactly what she is. Ive made extremely dumb & bad choices her concerning her.
Your a couple years older now but still young Kcar. You've given enough of your precious life away to an addict. You have now from your relationship with him about as much as I have from my relationship with her - nothing! Its actually less than nothing because of all the damages we have suffered.
You aren't going to get these years of your life back. I would think very carefully what you do from here. I can tell you very honestly, even today after everything & all I know now - I don't trust my own judgement when it comes to her. She is that good at it.
Just maybe you cant trust your own judgment trying to deal with the greatest manipulator your Dad ever saw?
I re-read your first thread on SR from back in October 2017. I know this is your life & you've been living through all of this but perhaps it might do you some good to read your first thread again?
So back in Oct 2017 your life was a mess with this guy. As a side note back in Oct 2017 my life was a mess with my addict. Its much easier for me to talk about you then me talk about me LOL. I did give you words of wisdom back then.
A couple points from back then:
1. His mother before she passed warned you about him.
2. Your father who was an addict, recovered, & works drug counseling (he knows what he is talking about) said your BF is the greatest manipulator he has ever met!
3. Your young & have so much going for you
Current time - Well
1. Your still allowing Mr. master manipulator to mess up your life.
2. From what I read Oct 2017 he was an addict the entire time you knew him. Oct 2019 still an addict yes? Sure sounds like it. FYI mine still is.
3. You couldn't take it back in Oct 2017 & still cant Oct 2019 (very understandable)
4. So you have an addict about to inherit big bucks. That's akin to mixing nitro & glycerin while holding an open flame. How do I know - been there done that. You don't want to be in close proximity when that goes off.
While our stories are different they are also the same. If you want a good dose of what not to do in this situation then please read my threads. She is what she is & I know (knew) exactly what she is. Ive made extremely dumb & bad choices her concerning her.
Your a couple years older now but still young Kcar. You've given enough of your precious life away to an addict. You have now from your relationship with him about as much as I have from my relationship with her - nothing! Its actually less than nothing because of all the damages we have suffered.
You aren't going to get these years of your life back. I would think very carefully what you do from here. I can tell you very honestly, even today after everything & all I know now - I don't trust my own judgement when it comes to her. She is that good at it.
Just maybe you cant trust your own judgment trying to deal with the greatest manipulator your Dad ever saw?
Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: W Washington
Posts: 11,589
I just feel this immense guilt that I wasn't being as supportive as he wanted me to be
oh i'd say you played right into what "support" he was really looking for.............
He even got me to give him money saying that his dad said he wasn’t allowed to spend as his lawyer fees and fines had racked him up in debt (his dad kept track of all his spendings as my ex is impulsive being the addict he is)....the light bulb went off and I realized that was his way of manipulating me to give him $$ for drugs. How blind I become when it comes to him mind boggles me.
try not to think you know what he is thinking or feeling, because i assure you......you do not. he exploited the illness/death of both of his parents to his advantage. he exploited your kindness.
oh i'd say you played right into what "support" he was really looking for.............
He even got me to give him money saying that his dad said he wasn’t allowed to spend as his lawyer fees and fines had racked him up in debt (his dad kept track of all his spendings as my ex is impulsive being the addict he is)....the light bulb went off and I realized that was his way of manipulating me to give him $$ for drugs. How blind I become when it comes to him mind boggles me.
try not to think you know what he is thinking or feeling, because i assure you......you do not. he exploited the illness/death of both of his parents to his advantage. he exploited your kindness.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 20
Originally Posted by pdm22
When I hear stories like this, it always makes me wonder how the person presents in front of other people. As in, the person figures out what “works” on who. So if sincerity, guilt and kindness are what they sniff out and exploit in one person, but they come across someone else who that doesn’t work on, what tactics are they using to try to manipulate a person with a different personality . Just something I wonder about, because chameleon like qualities are not uncommon in these situations.
As far as being supportive of someone in death, I’ve been in this type of a situation before too. It was a long time ago, but it was with an old boyfriend who I was planning on breaking up with (he was away working for a few months at the time). However, while he was away, a family member of his died tragically in an accident, and it shook him, and his whole family up (some family members I was close to at the time). So then the timing felt off, and I stayed with him. And really, all it did was drag things out for another year, and put me in harm’s way during that time, as he got worse. I finally wisened up, that keep contact with him wasn’t doing anyone any good, and broke free of that whole mess.
I also agree with what Trailmix said above regarding boundaries. You know your own situation and how it’s been going, what kinds of trouble you’ve gotten yourself into before (giving him money, getting hooked emotionally with the guilt tripping). Is it realistic to expect that your boundaries are going to be so different all of a sudden? That takes *hard* work to change. Also, in my experience, it’s not easy to reign things in, sometimes impossible, once things are an unboundaried mess and those dynamics are already in place. Chances are, he’ll most likely just use his father’s death to manipulate even more, and it will hurt you, not him. :/
As far as being supportive of someone in death, I’ve been in this type of a situation before too. It was a long time ago, but it was with an old boyfriend who I was planning on breaking up with (he was away working for a few months at the time). However, while he was away, a family member of his died tragically in an accident, and it shook him, and his whole family up (some family members I was close to at the time). So then the timing felt off, and I stayed with him. And really, all it did was drag things out for another year, and put me in harm’s way during that time, as he got worse. I finally wisened up, that keep contact with him wasn’t doing anyone any good, and broke free of that whole mess.
I also agree with what Trailmix said above regarding boundaries. You know your own situation and how it’s been going, what kinds of trouble you’ve gotten yourself into before (giving him money, getting hooked emotionally with the guilt tripping). Is it realistic to expect that your boundaries are going to be so different all of a sudden? That takes *hard* work to change. Also, in my experience, it’s not easy to reign things in, sometimes impossible, once things are an unboundaried mess and those dynamics are already in place. Chances are, he’ll most likely just use his father’s death to manipulate even more, and it will hurt you, not him. :/
It's hard to wrap my head around his "chameleon" personality because I have seen it first hand and it comes so naturally to him! It is unbelievable, but that's the nature of addiction I guess. And as for staying with someone when they experience a loss of a loved one, I went through it all with this same exabf in my thread exactly 2 years ago and you're right...it only got worse. He just got deeper and deeper into the drugs and took a LOT of anger out on me. I'm sorry you had to go through that too. It's so hard to walk away when you are faced with the death of a loved one and have to watch your person go through that pain.
Trailmix knows their stuff, as I agree too and am grateful to be told straight up that my boundaries will most likely be trampled by him IF he's given the opportunity to speak to me. He has been blocked and I need to keep it that way. Thank you so much.
Originally Posted by HardLessons
Kcar
I re-read your first thread on SR from back in October 2017. I know this is your life & you've been living through all of this but perhaps it might do you some good to read your first thread again?
A couple points from back then:
1. His mother before she passed warned you about him.
2. Your father who was an addict, recovered, & works drug counseling (he knows what he is talking about) said your BF is the greatest manipulator he has ever met!
3. Your young & have so much going for you
Current time - Well
1. Your still allowing Mr. master manipulator to mess up your life.
2. From what I read Oct 2017 he was an addict the entire time you knew him. Oct 2019 still an addict yes? Sure sounds like it. FYI mine still is.
3. You couldn't take it back in Oct 2017 & still cant Oct 2019 (very understandable)
4. So you have an addict about to inherit big bucks. That's akin to mixing nitro & glycerin while holding an open flame. How do I know - been there done that. You don't want to be in close proximity when that goes off.
You aren't going to get these years of your life back. I would think very carefully what you do from here. I can tell you very honestly, even today after everything & all I know now - I don't trust my own judgement when it comes to her. She is that good at it.
Just maybe you cant trust your own judgment trying to deal with the greatest manipulator your Dad ever saw?
I re-read your first thread on SR from back in October 2017. I know this is your life & you've been living through all of this but perhaps it might do you some good to read your first thread again?
A couple points from back then:
1. His mother before she passed warned you about him.
2. Your father who was an addict, recovered, & works drug counseling (he knows what he is talking about) said your BF is the greatest manipulator he has ever met!
3. Your young & have so much going for you
Current time - Well
1. Your still allowing Mr. master manipulator to mess up your life.
2. From what I read Oct 2017 he was an addict the entire time you knew him. Oct 2019 still an addict yes? Sure sounds like it. FYI mine still is.
3. You couldn't take it back in Oct 2017 & still cant Oct 2019 (very understandable)
4. So you have an addict about to inherit big bucks. That's akin to mixing nitro & glycerin while holding an open flame. How do I know - been there done that. You don't want to be in close proximity when that goes off.
You aren't going to get these years of your life back. I would think very carefully what you do from here. I can tell you very honestly, even today after everything & all I know now - I don't trust my own judgement when it comes to her. She is that good at it.
Just maybe you cant trust your own judgment trying to deal with the greatest manipulator your Dad ever saw?
I appreciate you so much for making the connections between my stories that took place exactly 2 years apart...it makes me question the amount of delusion I have voluntarily put up with or turned my nose to all these years... He is definitely the biggest manipulator I've ever met but also the person I know living in the most denial. It's sad to watch. Nothing has changed whether I was around or not, I realize this now. It took me 4 years to fully grasp it, but I can finally say I can see clearly now. It still makes me sad, but there's nothing I can do. I can only pray he doesn't go off the deep end. And you're right, I am still young and need to stop wasting precious moments of my life on this guy who has no desire to seek the help he needs. I restart therapy with my therapist Monday so that's a start. I'll have to admit to her that she was right all along LOL My therapist even said to me "whenever you come back, I know it's because it didn't work out with your exabf." I'm kicking myself because I remember a lot she had said to me, I just couldn't HEAR her to actually understand. Life goes on though. Thank you so much for bringing more light to my awareness.
Originally Posted by AnvilheadII
oh i'd say you played right into what "support" he was really looking for.............
try not to think you know what he is thinking or feeling, because i assure you......you do not. he exploited the illness/death of both of his parents to his advantage. he exploited your kindness.
These are the points I need to keep drilling into my mind whenever I find myself getting caught up in the good memories (which are sparse). Trying not to think about what he's thinking and feeling is what I was doing for those 2 weeks we called it off before he reached out to tell me the news...but now that I've put all the pieces together, that he is on DRUGS, those thoughts have declined greatly. Every time those thoughts creep up regarding what he's feeling or thinking I just tell myself that he's on drugs, he is currently incapable of thinking about anything else except where to find his next fix to chase his next high. It's a harsh reality to have, but seeing all the patterns pop up after a year of no contact has lifted the fog/denial I had in the relationship that his manipulation was my fault....But no, it's because he is an addict. He knows I don't condone or live the drug lifestyle, therefore it was me who had to go. Sad but true. Thank you.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 8,637
Unfortunately sometimes we have to revisit something like that, after a period of time to really see and understand it.
Once we have had time to reflect and then revisit, we can see so much more clearly exactly what is going on. Fear of being hurt has diminished as we have detached, obligation has diminished as we find hey they are fine living their drama filled, dysfunctional life and guilt if that is part of it is gone FOG (fear, obligation, guilt) clears.
So while revisiting is never advised, it happens, I am so glad you are feeling better about all this in that you are ready to start moving forward. Might be a few bumps in the road, we are here to support you. I'm interested to see how you get on too!
Hope you will stick around, you have a lot of wisdom to share.
Once we have had time to reflect and then revisit, we can see so much more clearly exactly what is going on. Fear of being hurt has diminished as we have detached, obligation has diminished as we find hey they are fine living their drama filled, dysfunctional life and guilt if that is part of it is gone FOG (fear, obligation, guilt) clears.
So while revisiting is never advised, it happens, I am so glad you are feeling better about all this in that you are ready to start moving forward. Might be a few bumps in the road, we are here to support you. I'm interested to see how you get on too!
Hope you will stick around, you have a lot of wisdom to share.
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
