Really?
Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: northern michigan. not the U.P.
Posts: 15,281
Originally Posted by Heelkat 
Emotionally, he seems to be numb some of the time. He often lacks appropriate empathy. I was upset the other day and mentioned the things I really liked about him before he started using and he got teary. Then, he can be fun and engaging at other times, particularly when we are actively doing something. So, he sometimes has appropriate emotional functionality, but less so than prior to these late night excursions. He doesn't really seem to be happy on a consistent basis. Says he is having fun when he is out partying on his "runs". Guess that is when the dopamine kicks in. But then turns around and says how ridiculous all of this is and he knows he needs to stop, but a part of him doesn't want to.
he NEEDED to stop a LONG time ago. NEEDING doesnt do crap for drunks and druggies other than keep em drunk and high. we gotta WANT to get clean/sober and be willing to go to any length to have that happen.
that doesnt involve other people doing the footwork for us.
you have a LOT of support right here- support that will help and be here for ya -people that have been in your shoes and found solutions. can find that,too, at an alanon meeting.
i hope youre ready to get into solutions FOR YOU.
ya dont deserve to have this insanity in your life.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 635
Originally Posted by Heelkat
It's sad that I reflect on the good times and he reflects on the bad.
I would really encourage you to catch yourself when you are trying to guess what he is thinking, or even taking his word for how he is feeling.
All the best.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 22
Originally Posted by CanadianRose
Heelcat, I was where you are now a couple of years ago, though it was crack and not meth. So much the same stuff, though. I get what you're feeling and I wish I could give you a story of hope and happiness. I can't, though. It will get worse. When I say worse, I mean a lot worse. If you can possibly do so, you will save yourself a lot of agony by getting out before he goes completely off the deep end, and he will. He will be unrecognizable to you. It is completely heartbreaking and I know that very well. It is going to be hard for you to imagine how bad it will get and I know that well too. You probably aren't ready to leave, and I get that 100%. I can tell you from my experience that everyone here is absolutely right. Anvilhead is so totally on point. You're getting ready to go through the worst **** of your life and I wish I could give you a really big hug. I am so so sorry.
If you stay, you will hit a point where you realize that it is all gone. The marriage is dead and you can't get it back. You won't ever have him back like it was. You will grieve that and it will be agonizing. You will be okay, though. You will then have the will to leave. You won't be able to stop yourself. The problem with waiting for your head and heart to align is that you will be in much worse financial shape by the time you leave and you will have experienced so much trauma that it will be harder than it would be now.
This just sucks, there's no way around it.
If you stay, you will hit a point where you realize that it is all gone. The marriage is dead and you can't get it back. You won't ever have him back like it was. You will grieve that and it will be agonizing. You will be okay, though. You will then have the will to leave. You won't be able to stop yourself. The problem with waiting for your head and heart to align is that you will be in much worse financial shape by the time you leave and you will have experienced so much trauma that it will be harder than it would be now.
This just sucks, there's no way around it.
For those that believe in the power of prayer, please pray for me and my family. My faith is waivering as I ask why.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 8,614
Who's looking after you in all this btw? Also, I didn't see in any of your posts why you are staying with him? Is it time for some distance perhaps?
Perhaps the question is not "why", the question is, why are you living with a meth head? Now I'm not implying he is a genuinely bad person or that he doesn't deserve friendship and help if he wants it, I don't mean it that way.
You are a Mother and a good person. You might be the friend of a meth user or an acquaintance. Why you are choosing to live with him though is a mystery, but again, I don't know the story here.
Perhaps the question is not "why", the question is, why are you living with a meth head? Now I'm not implying he is a genuinely bad person or that he doesn't deserve friendship and help if he wants it, I don't mean it that way.
You are a Mother and a good person. You might be the friend of a meth user or an acquaintance. Why you are choosing to live with him though is a mystery, but again, I don't know the story here.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: W Washington
Posts: 11,589
also must consider WHERE he was, WHO he was with and WHAT they were doing. he's not getting meth out of a vending machine, he has a connection or connections, and meth dealers aren't usually the classiest of characters. folks do REALLY STRANGE stuff on meth. and can engage in really risky behavior. IMO he probably should not be allowed to just waltz back in the house as if nothing is wrong and i certainly would NOT engage in sex with him.
The common ingredients of meth —along with where they’re found and their associated dangers— include:
Acetone is found in nail polish remover and paint thinner. It’s extremely flammable.
Anhydrous Ammonia is found in fertilizer and some cleaners. Mixing it with other chemicals creates a toxic gas.
Ephedrine/Pseudoephedrine is found in some cold medicines and diet pills. It can harm the respiratory system, nervous system, and heart in large quantities.
Hydrochloic Acid is used to make plastic. It is so corrosive that it can remove rust from steel and is capable of eating away flesh.
Lithium is found in batteries. It burns the skin, is highly explosive, and reacts violently with water.
Red phosphorus is found on matchboxes, in road flares, and in other explosives. It is highly flammable.
Toluene is found in brake fluid. It is so corrosive it can dissolve rubber.
Sodium Hydroxide or lye is used to dissolve roadkill. It is corrosive and can also burn skin or cause blindness.
The common ingredients of meth —along with where they’re found and their associated dangers— include:
Acetone is found in nail polish remover and paint thinner. It’s extremely flammable.
Anhydrous Ammonia is found in fertilizer and some cleaners. Mixing it with other chemicals creates a toxic gas.
Ephedrine/Pseudoephedrine is found in some cold medicines and diet pills. It can harm the respiratory system, nervous system, and heart in large quantities.
Hydrochloic Acid is used to make plastic. It is so corrosive that it can remove rust from steel and is capable of eating away flesh.
Lithium is found in batteries. It burns the skin, is highly explosive, and reacts violently with water.
Red phosphorus is found on matchboxes, in road flares, and in other explosives. It is highly flammable.
Toluene is found in brake fluid. It is so corrosive it can dissolve rubber.
Sodium Hydroxide or lye is used to dissolve roadkill. It is corrosive and can also burn skin or cause blindness.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 293
I know you don't want to hear this, believe me, I do, and I never would have believed it from my ex, but the odds are very very high that he's having sex with other people. I wouldn't have sex with him either for your sake and honest to god, if I could go back in time, I'd have left after the first drug run my husband went on. It would have saved me so very much trauma and heartbreak.
I am SO damned sorry.
I am SO damned sorry.
Getting there!!
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 5,750
I, too, am so sorry for the nightmare you are in. Trust me, I understand the pain, sadness, and betrayal.
My advice, from my own experience, is not to split him in two. The good guy and the bad guy. The old him and the present him. He is just one person! Presently, a sick and dangerous person!
I eventually had no choice and left my husband. It was very hard and very painful but also the best thing I ever did. Life with an addict is like selling your soul.
My ex played the "recovery" card as well. I caution you on this trick. Addicts will try everything to keep their status quo....being enabled!
My advice, from my own experience, is not to split him in two. The good guy and the bad guy. The old him and the present him. He is just one person! Presently, a sick and dangerous person!
I eventually had no choice and left my husband. It was very hard and very painful but also the best thing I ever did. Life with an addict is like selling your soul.
My ex played the "recovery" card as well. I caution you on this trick. Addicts will try everything to keep their status quo....being enabled!
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 22
Originally Posted by trailmix
Who's looking after you in all this btw? Also, I didn't see in any of your posts why you are staying with him? Is it time for some distance perhaps?
Perhaps the question is not "why", the question is, why are you living with a meth head? Now I'm not implying he is a genuinely bad person or that he doesn't deserve friendship and help if he wants it, I don't mean it that way.
You are a Mother and a good person. You might be the friend of a meth user or an acquaintance. Why you are choosing to live with him though is a mystery, but again, I don't know the story here.
Perhaps the question is not "why", the question is, why are you living with a meth head? Now I'm not implying he is a genuinely bad person or that he doesn't deserve friendship and help if he wants it, I don't mean it that way.
You are a Mother and a good person. You might be the friend of a meth user or an acquaintance. Why you are choosing to live with him though is a mystery, but again, I don't know the story here.
I have a therapist that I talk to, but haven't seen her since this last chain of events. Have an appointment next week. I have confided in my former boss, who is now a friend, who has been sober for a little over 2 years. Two of his nephews and two of his sisters know and have said that they are there for me and the girls, but they live 1000 miles away and I haven't heard from them in about a month. If I told my family, they would just be judgmental that I gave him a second chance to begin with when he came back from rehab in Dec 2017.
After almost 25 years of marriage and 29 years together total, the only reasons I can figure out that I haven't made a different choice is love, fear and hope. Of course, I do recognize that love, fear and hope could also be reasons to leave. At almost 50, the thought of starting life over is overwhelming. So, these are things I'm trying to work through.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: W Washington
Posts: 11,589
remember, you aren't starting life over from the very beginning - diapers and no teeth - you would just be moving to the next chapter of your already existing grown up-ness. you might have a different address or a different roommate, but you would still be you.
you have the power to do what you want, choose what you want, go where you want to go, explore and experience new things, create new rituals, find the sacred and treasure it.
not a bad option really...............
you have the power to do what you want, choose what you want, go where you want to go, explore and experience new things, create new rituals, find the sacred and treasure it.
not a bad option really...............
Nature Girl
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: By The Lake
Posts: 60,328
Originally Posted by AnvilheadII
remember, you aren't starting life over from the very beginning - diapers and no teeth - you would just be moving to the next chapter of your already existing grown up-ness. you might have a different address or a different roommate, but you would still be you.
you have the power to do what you want, choose what you want, go where you want to go, explore and experience new things, create new rituals, find the sacred and treasure it.
not a bad option really...............
you have the power to do what you want, choose what you want, go where you want to go, explore and experience new things, create new rituals, find the sacred and treasure it.
not a bad option really...............
Most times, the pain of staying, which goes on and on, is worse than the pain of leaving, which eventually heals as you find a better way to live.
I am so sorry for your pain, I wish things would just get better on their own, but that's just not how it works and I think you are seeing the futility of wishing for what used to be.
Hugs from my heart.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 22
Originally Posted by AnvilheadII
also must consider WHERE he was, WHO he was with and WHAT they were doing. he's not getting meth out of a vending machine, he has a connection or connections, and meth dealers aren't usually the classiest of characters. folks do REALLY STRANGE stuff on meth. and can engage in really risky behavior. IMO he probably should not be allowed to just waltz back in the house as if nothing is wrong and i certainly would NOT engage in sex with him.
The common ingredients of meth —along with where they’re found and their associated dangers— include:
Acetone is found in nail polish remover and paint thinner. It’s extremely flammable.
Anhydrous Ammonia is found in fertilizer and some cleaners. Mixing it with other chemicals creates a toxic gas.
Ephedrine/Pseudoephedrine is found in some cold medicines and diet pills. It can harm the respiratory system, nervous system, and heart in large quantities.
Hydrochloic Acid is used to make plastic. It is so corrosive that it can remove rust from steel and is capable of eating away flesh.
Lithium is found in batteries. It burns the skin, is highly explosive, and reacts violently with water.
Red phosphorus is found on matchboxes, in road flares, and in other explosives. It is highly flammable.
Toluene is found in brake fluid. It is so corrosive it can dissolve rubber.
Sodium Hydroxide or lye is used to dissolve roadkill. It is corrosive and can also burn skin or cause blindness.
The common ingredients of meth —along with where they’re found and their associated dangers— include:
Acetone is found in nail polish remover and paint thinner. It’s extremely flammable.
Anhydrous Ammonia is found in fertilizer and some cleaners. Mixing it with other chemicals creates a toxic gas.
Ephedrine/Pseudoephedrine is found in some cold medicines and diet pills. It can harm the respiratory system, nervous system, and heart in large quantities.
Hydrochloic Acid is used to make plastic. It is so corrosive that it can remove rust from steel and is capable of eating away flesh.
Lithium is found in batteries. It burns the skin, is highly explosive, and reacts violently with water.
Red phosphorus is found on matchboxes, in road flares, and in other explosives. It is highly flammable.
Toluene is found in brake fluid. It is so corrosive it can dissolve rubber.
Sodium Hydroxide or lye is used to dissolve roadkill. It is corrosive and can also burn skin or cause blindness.
Thanks for the warning about sex. When he took opiates, he would go buy pills and come home. This last week he was definitely out partying with some folks. He admitted it when I commented that he smelled like smoke. He stayed out all night two nights (slept in his car one and didn't sleep at all the other) and came in at 4 am the third time. He is someone who has always gotten 8+ hours of sleep each night. So this stuff must really hype you up.
Then he turned around and complained that when he hangs out with them, they always need a ride somewhere or money or want him to buy food. And he talks about how messed up the lives of these people are and how they are bad parents. ??? When I ask why hang out with them for hours at a time, he then says because they are fun and laugh and are lighthearted. Well yeah. You took them to run errands, forked over cash and got fast food and cigarettes for everybody. As Trailmix commented, I am trying to apply logic here.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 22
Originally Posted by CanadianRose
This isn't going to get better for a long while, if it ever does. Right now he doesn't and can't love you. You are on your own in this marriage. He's not your partner anymore.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: W Washington
Posts: 11,589
i did meth back in the day - i don't think it was the SAME toxic cocktail of crap they make in RVs today, but still. you are VERY awake, and restless, for a VERY long time. and that was just snorting it. smoking meth (never did) whole 'nother animal. rocket high and then you pulse like those tall power lines you go by. zzzzzzt, zzzzzzzt.
people "tweak" on meth - either "looking" for something unknown, for hours, tossing everything like an FBI raid, or taking things apart, for some unknown reason, until interest or attention fades, and it's onto something else to tear apart.
people do not get together to do meth for the camraderie, they get together for the dope. always better if you have someone with cash who is willing to share. or someone to buy the attending beer and smokes, and drive you on "errands" also known as trip to the dope house.
this ain't no friday night poker party. this is a 50 something year old man hanging with what i assume is a much or at least partially younger crowd, flashing the cash to make "friends" and "have a good time". except it's NONE of that. these people would as soon frisk his pockets if he had a seizure before they'd ever think to call 911. as soon as he fails to cough up the cash, his friends will disappear.
as i mentioned briefly before, meth also makes a lot of people very sexualized and energized. that's part of why meth was so big in the gay community for so long. UP for days as they say......people on meth are also not known for their good decision making skills, so anything goes and anything is possible.
goes without saying it's also illegal.
and hard to kick.
and hugely physically destructive.
people "tweak" on meth - either "looking" for something unknown, for hours, tossing everything like an FBI raid, or taking things apart, for some unknown reason, until interest or attention fades, and it's onto something else to tear apart.
people do not get together to do meth for the camraderie, they get together for the dope. always better if you have someone with cash who is willing to share. or someone to buy the attending beer and smokes, and drive you on "errands" also known as trip to the dope house.
this ain't no friday night poker party. this is a 50 something year old man hanging with what i assume is a much or at least partially younger crowd, flashing the cash to make "friends" and "have a good time". except it's NONE of that. these people would as soon frisk his pockets if he had a seizure before they'd ever think to call 911. as soon as he fails to cough up the cash, his friends will disappear.
as i mentioned briefly before, meth also makes a lot of people very sexualized and energized. that's part of why meth was so big in the gay community for so long. UP for days as they say......people on meth are also not known for their good decision making skills, so anything goes and anything is possible.
goes without saying it's also illegal.
and hard to kick.
and hugely physically destructive.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 293
Originally Posted by Heelkat
After almost 25 years of marriage and 29 years together total, the only reasons I can figure out that I haven't made a different choice is love, fear and hope. Of course, I do recognize that love, fear and hope could also be reasons to leave. At almost 50, the thought of starting life over is overwhelming. So, these are things I'm trying to work through.
You know what though? I'm happy. I'm content. I don't have any more nights where I'm wondering where he is or what he's doing. I'm no longer afraid that dealers know where I live and his dumbass will owe money and they'll come collecting. I no longer have to worry about drugs being in the house with my children. I am so very much happier. Yes, it was hell. The entire journey was a nightmare that I wouldn't wish on anyone, but I guess the advantage of it getting that bad is the perspective of life being so so good now. I don't miss having a spouse at all. I cherish my space and time and I'm using it to heal. This is what's on the other side once you get out. Perhaps I'll date again one day, perhaps I won't. Don't care. I have dogs. There's my unconditional love and warm little bodies to snuggle in bed. No more empty side of the bed where my husband was supposed to be and I'm up nights enraged, hurt and afraid and still trying to function at my job the next day and raise my children. No more hiding my debit and credit cards in a hole at the bottom of my purse just in case he got to that point. EVERYTHING is easier without that stress. It's like I walked out of a burning building into fresh air and I hadn't even realized how badly the smoke was choking me before.
Starting over isn't necessarily bad. I have been happier since I left than I had been since before that first night he came home high.
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 13,560
What would you tell your daughter if she were married and in this situation?? If you actually follow what you would tell her, that normally cuts through all the brain/heart clutter.
I would definitely say protect your assets. Drug use burns through some real money, and they will not care where it comes from.
Hugs to you.
I would definitely say protect your assets. Drug use burns through some real money, and they will not care where it comes from.
Hugs to you.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 8,614
Hi Heelcat, there is something from your original post that had me thinking about this:
It's almost like this type of behaviour has become commonplace for you (and absolutely it might be!).
The thing is, when we are around something for so long, it can become the norm. Starting over without him as your partner etc, a lot of that is kind of beside the point when you weigh it up against what's going on here.
He is out chasing meth, all night, doing god knows what, probably lying about it and you are wondering why he isn't getting an uber. His behaviour is outrageous.
Now, I don't know if you just posted it this way as in - just the facts maam! - or if in some way you have been around this for so long it is your norm, but that's like being in a fog. His behaviour is not normal, it's incredibly, outrageously - abnormal.
I'm sure you know about the intermittent chicken (intermittent reinforcement)
https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums...-chick-en.html (Don't be his chick(en)!!!)
I mention this because you really do need to protect yourself, emotionally and financially, as hopeful mentioned. Please don't sit by the sidelines and be shocked at his next move. Never forget when he is "teary" or being "fun and engaging" that he has been hanging out with drug dealers and meth heads all night trying to scrounge drugs.
He says the first time he stayed out all night, he used so much meth and then smoked so much marijuana that he realized he was too high to drive and slept in the car. (Really? Who does this? Why not just Uber home?) However, he managed to get home @ 8 am to get a shower and go to work . The second time was the time he rolled back in @ 4 am. When I expressed concern about being out so long and was assuming this had to do with seeking female companionship, he laughed at me and said it has nothing to do with another woman. I know meth certainly spikes his libido, but he also suffers from ED. So, I don't know what to believe. He claims it sometimes takes him a few hours to find what he wants because people who don't know him think he looks like a cop.
The thing is, when we are around something for so long, it can become the norm. Starting over without him as your partner etc, a lot of that is kind of beside the point when you weigh it up against what's going on here.
He is out chasing meth, all night, doing god knows what, probably lying about it and you are wondering why he isn't getting an uber. His behaviour is outrageous.
Now, I don't know if you just posted it this way as in - just the facts maam! - or if in some way you have been around this for so long it is your norm, but that's like being in a fog. His behaviour is not normal, it's incredibly, outrageously - abnormal.
I was upset the other day and mentioned the things I really liked about him before he started using and he got teary. Then, he can be fun and engaging at other times, particularly when we are actively doing something.
https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums...-chick-en.html (Don't be his chick(en)!!!)
I mention this because you really do need to protect yourself, emotionally and financially, as hopeful mentioned. Please don't sit by the sidelines and be shocked at his next move. Never forget when he is "teary" or being "fun and engaging" that he has been hanging out with drug dealers and meth heads all night trying to scrounge drugs.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 22
Originally Posted by trailmix
Hi Heelcat, there is something from your original post that had me thinking about this:
He is out chasing meth, all night, doing god knows what, probably lying about it and you are wondering why he isn't getting an uber. His behaviour is outrageous.
I'm sure you know about the intermittent chicken
He is out chasing meth, all night, doing god knows what, probably lying about it and you are wondering why he isn't getting an uber. His behaviour is outrageous.
I'm sure you know about the intermittent chicken
And I didn't know about the intermittent chicken, but bock bock!
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 22
Originally Posted by AnvilheadII
people "tweak" on meth - either "looking" for something unknown, for hours, tossing everything like an FBI raid, or taking things apart, for some unknown reason, until interest or attention fades, and it's onto something else to tear apart.
people do not get together to do meth for the camraderie, they get together for the dope. always better if you have someone with cash who is willing to share. or someone to buy the attending beer and smokes, and drive you on "errands" also known as trip to the dope house.
this ain't no friday night poker party. this is a 50 something year old man hanging with what i assume is a much or at least partially younger crowd, flashing the cash to make "friends" and "have a good time". except it's NONE of that. these people would as soon frisk his pockets if he had a seizure before they'd ever think to call 911. as soon as he fails to cough up the cash, his friends will disappear.
.
He actually went to rehab this weekend. On the way there I mentioned your comment about how his new "friends" would treat him if he was the one in need. He agreed. One had stolen his gun, watch and phone while he was partying with them, this after buying the booze, cigarettes and food you referenced. He figured out who it was and found the items. He was also missing some tools he had in his car that he keeps for emergencies.
He said he found his keys in a different place and wouldn't put it past someone to copy the keys to try to break in (he had a key on there to my house and his house.) Not that they know where I live in the next county over, but it is public record on the county website and if you put in my last name, there are 2 addresses that will show up-my house and his house. They would also have to drive 20 minutes to the city I live in, but he seemed to think if it was as easy as turning a key to get in, they would just to steal items to pawn. He said he wouldn't go to rehab until I re-keyed the locks on my house, so I did. He says he also told the group he was partying with that we had cameras on our houses that record, which we do, in hopes that would deter them. Apparently, they even steal from each other, and I thought there was honor among thieves.
He came to the conclusion that he had no money to pay his mortgage, car payment etc, was about to lose his job, and was physically and emotionally exhausted. He said if he didn't die from the drug use soon, he was likely going to "eat a bullet" as he saw no way out of this life. So, now he's safe from himself for the next 30 days and I can focus on myself and my daughters.
Thank you for sharing your wisdom and experiences!
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