Trying to find peace with Meth addict.

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Old 02-05-2019, 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted by KennedyR View Post
Sometimes the situation of an addict can bring me down to a terrible place of dispair - how trapped they must feel. How much I want to help - but it’s not my place to fix his life.
Yes, you didn't Cause it, can't Control it and can't Cure it. When he is really ready to quit, he will find the help he needs.

What I'm about to say is going to sound like a platitude. Please know it's not intended to be.

Try not to let it bring you to despair. Try not to feel his feelings, it does no good, not for you or for him.
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Old 02-05-2019, 08:26 PM
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Originally Posted by trailmix View Post
Yes, you didn't Cause it, can't Control it and can't Cure it. When he is really ready to quit, he will find the help he needs.

What I'm about to say is going to sound like a platitude. Please know it's not intended to be.

Try not to let it bring you to despair. Try not to feel his feelings, it does no good, not for you or for him.
I try not to anymore, I know it’s pointless. Sometimes I just feel like I’ve not only witnessed, but been in an actual horror movie. With everything I’ve seen and experienced through him. I keep hoping it will end - that there will be a good, happy ending. I’m trying to make my own happy ending, it’s just all been so sad and tragic. I’m working on this..
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Old 02-06-2019, 03:19 PM
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You have been, except it was your life. It can truly be traumatic. In the Friends and Family of Alcoholics forum, PTSD is discussed frequently, it can be a real result from having lived with an addict. Emotional trauma.

Don't downplay it to yourself, what you have been through is real and painful. Maybe some counselling is in order?

It's dreadful that people who may have huge potential and who may well be good people underneath their addiction - are addicts. Try not to dwell too much on what could have been or his potential. That is not the reality of this situation. It's no different than thinking, if someone had 2 broken arms - oh but we could be doing such great cartwheels together! That's not the reality, the person with the broken arms cannot do the cartwheels, although they might be really good at it if their arms were mended.

Stick with the reality, dwelling on potential will just bring you down and it's not realistic right now.

Honestly, from what you have posted, he doesn't sound like someone who actually wants to quit.
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Old 02-06-2019, 06:06 PM
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Thank you for your advice - I am currently in counseling, which has helped quite a bit. I still have some lingering emotional baggage, so to speak, that I still need to work on. As well as continuing to process everything I’ve been through - not sure why I’m having such a hard time processing it all! But, I believe with time, healing will come.
Honestly, a apart of me is tired of focusing on him - even if it’s only focusing on what he’s put me through - just ready to shed these layers he’s slowly put on me. Hopefully one day I’ll get to a place where he and this whole experience will just be a faded memory.. and a feeling of contentment reigns 😊
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Old 02-13-2019, 04:26 PM
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Just can’t believe how many things I’ve found out that he’s been lying about. It appears that he’s almost in a way, rubbing it in my face. I can’t understand how someone could be so bad, but also so vindictive! It’s almost like he’s getting off on hurting me. I’ve done nothing to him. I just don’t get any of this.
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Old 02-13-2019, 04:53 PM
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Do you have to "get" it before you can accept it? This is who he is.
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Old 02-13-2019, 04:58 PM
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Originally Posted by KennedyR View Post
Just can’t believe how many things I’ve found out that he’s been lying about. It appears that he’s almost in a way, rubbing it in my face. I can’t understand how someone could be so bad, but also so vindictive! It’s almost like he’s getting off on hurting me. I’ve done nothing to him. I just don’t get any of this.
Applying logic to the illogical?

No one wants to intentionally hurt someone. People are generally honest. Those two things are "normal".

He's not thinking anywhere near normal. So yes, maybe in some twisted way it gives him pleasure to think you are suffering - he is, so why not you? Why do you get to walk away and be happy?

Now, that is mean and vindictive but hey - do you have any reason to believe he isn't mean and vindictive?

He was supposed to go see his young Nephew that he loves who has been threatening suicide and decided to hit town and use instead. It's almost like you are expecting him to be someone he is not?
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Old 02-13-2019, 07:58 PM
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Originally Posted by trailmix View Post
Applying logic to the illogical?

No one wants to intentionally hurt someone. People are generally honest. Those two things are "normal".

He's not thinking anywhere near normal. So yes, maybe in some twisted way it gives him pleasure to think you are suffering - he is, so why not you? Why do you get to walk away and be happy?

Now, that is mean and vindictive but hey - do you have any reason to believe he isn't mean and vindictive?

He was supposed to go see his young Nephew that he loves who has been threatening suicide and decided to hit town and use instead. It's almost like you are expecting him to be someone he is not?
You have valid points. I think I just keep expecting him to be the guy he has shown he can be when sober. But who knows, maybe it’s all been an act.
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Old 02-13-2019, 08:50 PM
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Originally Posted by KennedyR View Post


You have valid points. I think I just keep expecting him to be the guy he has shown he can be when sober. But who knows, maybe it’s all been an act.
Maybe, or maybe not, maybe he can be quite a decent guy but you don't get one without the other.

He may disassociate but that doesn't mean you have to. He is 1 person both good and bad and the bad is really quite bad? Now if you had met him and he was an alcoholic and he started drinking after you had known him for several months but after say, two months he got in to treatment and had been sober for a year or more, I would be saying hey, good for you both!

That's not the case here. How many years are you going to invest in a roller-coaster of a relationship? He apparently has no intention of quitting right now? Not only does he tell you he can't continue in the relationship because he can't be sober, now he's abusing you.

What do you want in your life? Marriage? Children? If so, this isn't the guy for that, not now and probably not for some time, if ever.

I hope you take some time away from him, even a week or so with no contact, it might help you to see more clearly that what he is offering you is nothing except a whole bunch of toxicity that he feels the need to dump on someone else.
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Old 02-13-2019, 08:58 PM
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You might find this article helpful:

http://www.bma-wellness.com/papers/A..._Defenses.html
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Old 02-14-2019, 09:39 AM
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not sure why I’m having such a hard time processing it all! But, I believe with time, healing will come.
Are you still in contact with him?
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Old 02-14-2019, 11:41 AM
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[QUOTE=trailmix;7123853]You might find this article helpful:



Thank you for the article. Your information and advice is always helpful and eye opening. I just want to say, I appreciate you taking the time to even respond. I completely agree with what you’re saying. It’s crazy how his toxic lifestyle can bleed into mine so easily. Makes me feel like I’m going nuts. I think I’m trying to understand that the guy I used to know may just not be there anymore - or quite possibly an illusion all together. I’m trying to understand that what I experienced with him in the beginning probably won’t come back. I think that’s what I’ve been struggling with - only wanting what I used to have. It’s crazy how someone can change so much over time on hard drugs.
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Old 02-14-2019, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by atalose View Post
Are you still in contact with him?
For some reason I feel ashamed of admitting this - but no, we are no longer in contact. But, I have been off and on keeping an eye on his social media accounts, and other accounts linked to his alias, that supposedly weren’t his. I’ve found that they are his and he’s been lying to me for months about it.. while we were working on things, while apparently sober. (Unfortunately, he abused social media while we were together, while he was using when I wasn’t aware- so we agreed it would be best for him to stay off while we tried to work through things and regain trust.) For some reason I feel I keep tabs from time to time to find out who he really is and was. But, at the same time, I know finding out these things are hurting and damaging my heart so much. Maybe in the end, it will help me move on.
Just hearing myself day all of these things out loud to others is kind of embarrassing..
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Old 02-14-2019, 05:22 PM
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Sometimes we have to work through it like that. It's not fun, it's hurtful, but sometimes we do.

The thing is knowing when you know enough. You looked at his information to find out if what he was telling you was real. It wasn't, he's a liar, beyond doubt and now you know that.

The guy you used to know is gone, he is now being driven by his DOC (drug of choice). His mind is different, any integrity he might have had is being diminished.

You said earlier:

How can he not be in control of his addiction when he’s stopped before? Isn’t he and his addiction one in the same? If hes chosen to stop before and he’s chosen to relapse and stop again - isn’t he ultimately the one in control of his addiction?
No, he is not in control of his addiction, his addiction is in control of him.

Have you ever been on a diet? Have you ever been so hungry you went in to the kitchen and ate the first thing that came to hand whether that was a chicken breast or a bag of chips?

If you have then multiply that by 100. When he stops using for a period, he's just white-knuckling it. Most anyone can do that, for a week, a month or two, but recovery is a different thing, not the same.

To quit he will have to realize who is actually in control and he will have to accept help. Some manage to quit on their own, they are probably very much in the minority. It's very hard to quit when your brain is 24/7 telling you that you need this drug - not just want it - need it to feel even normal, let alone high.
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Old 02-14-2019, 05:25 PM
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"Freedom, flexibility, spontaneity and independence of thought are judgment are lost -actually sacrificed- to the interests and demands of the Idol of the addiction that has become the addict's jealous god.

he addict's mind is in a sense no longer his mind but has become an agent and tool, however unwitting, of the addiction whose absolute and fundamentally irrational mandate the addict now exists solely in order to fulfill - even, if necessary, at the cost of his own life.

But long before his physical life is surrendered to 'the Cause' of the addiction, the addict has sacrificed his soul and his individuality to satisfy the requirements of the addiction."

From the article:

Getting Away With Addiction?
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Old 02-14-2019, 08:42 PM
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Originally Posted by trailmix View Post
Sometimes we have to work through it like that. It's not fun, it's hurtful, but sometimes we do.

The thing is knowing when you know enough. You looked at his information to find out if what he was telling you was real. It wasn't, he's a liar, beyond doubt and now you know that.

The guy you used to know is gone, he is now being driven by his DOC (drug of choice). His mind is different, any integrity he might have had is being diminished.

You said earlier:



No, he is not in control of his addiction, his addiction is in control of him.

Have you ever been on a diet? Have you ever been so hungry you went in to the kitchen and ate the first thing that came to hand whether that was a chicken breast or a bag of chips?

If you have then multiply that by 100. When he stops using for a period, he's just white-knuckling it. Most anyone can do that, for a week, a month or two, but recovery is a different thing, not the same.

To quit he will have to realize who is actually in control and he will have to accept help. Some manage to quit on their own, they are probably very much in the minority. It's very hard to quit when your brain is 24/7 telling you that you need this drug - not just want it - need it to feel even normal, let alone high.
I know it sounds silly, but apart of my brain has been having a really hard time grasping addiction in general. I’ve read so many differing opinions, research, all the way from forums to articles written by scholars with PhD’s. Some believe addiction has been poorly misunderstood since the 1930’s. That addiction is merely an emotional issue that needs resolving. To learn coping skills and help working through the emotional issues. That being taught that addiction is a disease is only putting a self fulfilling prophecy in motion. That all medical diseases can be treated or helped in a medical setting, therefore addiction is not a disease. That there’s no actual evidence of a biological gene in the dna that links to predisposition to addiction, Etc etc.
I think we’re all aware of the opposite end of the other side of the spectrum - addiction is a chronic relapsing disease, they aren’t in control, addicts need to be in group meetings, etc etc. At this point I’m not sure what to believe, but what you said makes sense. It sounds like what you’re saying is he isn’t in control when using, but once he decides to stop and get into an actual recovery program, he regains control. Without proper help and desire to quit, the addiction will always be in control. This makes sense to me.

This next question, I don’t know if you or anyone would have the answer. I hope you don’t misconstrue my question for some sort of desire to be with him again - as I don’t think there’s anything that can undo the pain, hurt, trauma, disgust I’ve witnessed and experienced, but when you said, “The guy you used to know is gone, he is now being driven by his DOC (drug of choice). His mind is different, any integrity he might have had is being diminished.”
Do you believe that this is permanent? Do you think any drug addict that has been abusing drugs for some time can ever bounce back? That they can regain their person and personality? Or are they just gone forever/forever changed and damaged? Seeing him be and become so many different people throughout my time with him has been very scary and frightening. Sober him in the beginning was great, then changes to a sex crazed manic who would lie about anything to cover his tracks, ending up the scariest, most frightening monster I’d ever known, having to sleep with a knife under my pillow until I could find a place to move to, to pink cloud amazingness once sober, back to monster during relapse, then completely numb about everything once sober again. This all has been so traumatic. And believe me, if I hadn’t been so very much in love with him, I wouldn’t have even considered talking to him again once he went to rehab. I just wasn’t knowledgeable on this addiction subject. I also was traumatized by the idea of him dying, which kept me bound to him, before I had better boundaries set in place. I just figured, how would anybody want to go back to a life where he overdosed again? Where he gets arrested again? Etc etc. I just assumed once he stopped using, that he would just be him again. Geez, was I wrong.
He was my best friend, he was there for me through my worst times and apart of me still misses him dearly. Sad thing is, we never really got a full chance to see where this could have gone - because drugs became his #1 love. Sometimes I don’t know what to do with all of these emotions on a daily basis. It’s almost exhausting and overwhelming at times. Something I’m working on in counseling. God, I hope to come out of this in one piece.
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Old 02-16-2019, 12:28 AM
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Without proper help and desire to quit, the addiction will always be in control. This makes sense to me.
Yes, that's exactly it. I know what you are saying about the underlying causes, I was reading some information from Dr Gabor Mate who believes that all addictions are emotionally based and he has tons of experience to back that up.

Even if that is a fact, which seems reasonable to me, if you take the emotion and use a drug to mask/hide/escape that emotion then you have to make a decision to stop. The climb out of that is steep. Those emotions or traumas do not disappear because you stop using Meth or alcohol etc. You then have to deal with those emotions and all the other ones you skipped over while using.

We learn coping skills as we mature. Many addicts have drugged themselves throughout those years. Anyway, that's basically it, as I see it, in a nutshell.

That doesn't mean that an actual physical/mental addiction does not occur though. Disease or mental illness it really doesn't matter, it's still a tough road to recover from.

Do you believe that this is permanent? Do you think any drug addict that has been abusing drugs for some time can ever bounce back?
I do believe they can, based on stories I have read here, in the alcoholism forums.

Will they ever be the same? All the trauma he has put you through, those are things he has also experienced. Although he was the abuser and instigator, that is the life he is living/experiencing. Those kinds of things change a person, as they have changed you.

Also, you have never known him "sober" - he was using cocaine when you met him (and who knows what else, you weren't even aware so he wasn't exactly forthcoming). He may not be who he was then even.
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Old 02-16-2019, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by trailmix View Post
Yes, that's exactly it. I know what you are saying about the underlying causes, I was reading some information from Dr Gabor Mate who believes that all addictions are emotionally based and he has tons of experience to back that up.

Even if that is a fact, which seems reasonable to me, if you take the emotion and use a drug to mask/hide/escape that emotion then you have to make a decision to stop. The climb out of that is steep. Those emotions or traumas do not disappear because you stop using Meth or alcohol etc. You then have to deal with those emotions and all the other ones you skipped over while using.

We learn coping skills as we mature. Many addicts have drugged themselves throughout those years. Anyway, that's basically it, as I see it, in a nutshell.

That doesn't mean that an actual physical/mental addiction does not occur though. Disease or mental illness it really doesn't matter, it's still a tough road to recover from.



I do believe they can, based on stories I have read here, in the alcoholism forums.

Will they ever be the same? All the trauma he has put you through, those are things he has also experienced. Although he was the abuser and instigator, that is the life he is living/experiencing. Those kinds of things change a person, as they have changed you.

Also, you have never known him "sober" - he was using cocaine when you met him (and who knows what else, you weren't even aware so he wasn't exactly forthcoming). He may not be who he was then even.
It’s nice to hear that someone agrees that the emotional issues may be the main cause of addiction. I’ve felt very alone in that theory. Mental illness could definitely exacerbate the problem, as my ex also has adhd that isn’t being properly treated- and I know it’s definitely apart of his impulse control and using in general. But yes, either way, it’s a long ladder to climb to get out of the depths of addiction. I can see how to them it would be easier to just take a hit to temporarily cure their ailments, versus doing the hard work which is recovery/counseling etc. But I had really hoped that seeing how he lost everything the last time around, and now has regained so much back - car, great job, got out of jail time because of first offense, has friends, and a place to live, would be enough to say, I relapsed but I have to stop, because I can’t end up here again.

Apart of me hopes that his court case from his arrest will put a halt to it all, as he believed the case should be over on the 25th of this month- last I knew, he was getting 3 years probation. They had him on intent to distribute which is a big deal. It basically means he had so many drugs on his person that they saw him as a drug dealer. So, maybe this will be the road block to his out of control car with no brakes. If not, then there’s always going to jail, which truly might be just what he needs.

He had told me after rehab that he was clean the first month or two when we were first dating - that that was really who he was, until the addiction slowly started to take back over. But you’re absolutely correct, I don’t know if that was true or if there was more. I do know there were opioids for back pain, so I’m sure that was still going on then - who knows what else.

This has just been so insane - insane in the way that his situation doesn’t have to be like this. I always told him that he couldn’t keep from looking his past dead in the face. Making amends with the past, the people his past affected and digging further to find out what got him in this situation to begin with. Otherwise, the fear, the cravings, the addiction and anxiety will always be there. He knew what he needed to do, but as he said - He was too anxious to deal with any of those things and he just wanted to stay anxiety free by whatever means possible. So he just kept sustaining and “dry drunking” it. He was aware of all of these things, so i need to remember that he didn’t really want to recover. This wasn’t a slip or a relapse, in my eyes, once is a mistake, over and over again, it becomes a decision.

Last I looked on his social media account, his new drug buddy is missing. I had a small panic attack assuming that since this is his only friend at the moment, they must both be missing - out getting lost and high together. I’ve decided it’s time to stop looking, as I can’t go through this worry again. It just about did me in the last time- calling his parents to help him, begging him to stop, feeling such desperation to save him from overdosing again. That helpless feeling is the worst feeling in the world to me. There’s not one thing I can do or say to make him see the reality. It’s really sad and tragic... all of this. I hope he comes to his senses one day, but apart of me feels like one day I’ll be getting that dreaded phone call.. and it’s sad to say that on some level I’m already preparing for it.
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Old 02-16-2019, 11:48 AM
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Becoming addicted and being addicted are two separate things. Addiction can be mental, but drugs actually change the brain pathways, physically change the brain (this is proven). That's not to say that can't be healed over a period of time, but it is truly physical as well as mental.

I'm no expert on this but I have read a lot about it and there is a book that one of the members here suggests (dandylion) but I have forgotten for the moment.

But I had really hoped that seeing how he lost everything the last time around, and now has regained so much back
But that is just wishful thinking. Addicts leave their wives, husbands, children, unborn children. It happens every day.

Apart of me hopes that his court case from his arrest will put a halt to it all
I wouldn't bet on it, I don't think court threats are a big healer of emotional and addiction issues, more of an inconvenience?

I do know there were opioids for back pain, so I’m sure that was still going on then - who knows what else.
For back pain, right. So he claims he was "sober" for 4-8 weeks of your relationship, not really a stellar track record there.

I always told him that he couldn’t keep from looking his past dead in the face. Making amends with the past, the people his past affected and digging further to find out what got him in this situation to begin with.
This will trip you up. You can't actually change him. You might not like his drug use, it may not be good for him (or you) but that is who he is. You tried to help, he denied your help, that's pretty much the end of that.

He doesn't have a problem with his drug use, you do.

He is who he is, he has made his choice, he would rather use drugs than give up drugs (of course this makes little sense, but none-the-less he is a grown man and gets to make that decision).

I’ve decided it’s time to stop looking, as I can’t go through this worry again. It just about did me in the last time- calling his parents to help him, begging him to stop
Yes, no new contact = no new hurts (as they say around here). Think about taking that energy that you use to worry about him and turning it to yourself.

You are the only person you can control, your life should be happy and content, worrying about him is really a waste of time and energy.
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Old 02-16-2019, 12:06 PM
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I’m not sure of your situation or what you have gone through, but I’m assuming someone you cared about went through something similar and I’m very sorry for you if that’s the case. I hope you don’t mind me asking, but how long did it take you to heal, truly implement all the wisdom you know? I also agree with everything you said - but I still struggle sometimes..
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