ebecker1982

I'm coming up on three weeks of not talking to my addict. I'm considering breaking the silence. But I'm not really sure how to do it appropriately.

It's not like everything has been entirely silent in a sense......She continues to use my Netflix and my Amazon music account. I continue to pay her phone bill because, aside from it being under contract, I don't want her parents to have no way of getting a hold of her.

Part of it is that I feel like I'm not angry now. I haven't really felt angry this week. A little sad. But not angry. Not like I was.

Another part of it is I feel like I need to iterate that I'm doing what I'm doing for my own sanity and well-being. I don't love her any less. I don't want to be out of her life. I just...I can't let her cause me to neglect myself anymore. I need a partner. Not a pariah. (Maybe that's not the best phrasing, but I think you get what I'm saying....)

I'm going to say "hello" soon. Just "hello." And see how she responds. I'm not expecting overwhelming joy. I'm actually anticipating a bit of anger. But I need to get this over with, and I need to hold firm to the boundaries I set 3 weeks ago one way or another.

-Eric

suki44883

Well, you can do whatever you want, of course, but I don't see the need to contact her at all. It just opens up that door again. I doubt that she cares why you are doing what you are doing. She still has a phone, netflix and amazon music, all of which you pay for. The only reason I would contact her would be to give her a date on which you intend to stop paying for those services, or will change your password on the two that you also use.

If you need a partner, she is not partner material.

ebecker1982

Thanks for the thought.

However. I'll make a decision about what she is or is not to me in my life on my own time. If I decide to give her money, I'll give her money. Hell, if I decide to buy some ice and smoke it with her, I'll do that. We only live once, right? Never tried the stuff. Heck. Maybe if I did I'd understand why it's so hard to kick. That's an insight I lack.

Of course....I'm not doing those things because I'd prefer to keep my health and my sanity right now.

I appreciate constructive feedback from people who have been there. But. BUT! I have not opted to do an entire separation from my addict at this time and I don't think permanent separation is the route I am going. So please respect that. And please respect the folks here who might be dealing with their own addiction who might already be nervous about their partners or loved ones opting to separate themselves entirely. "Going away forever" is not everybody's solution, and while it might come down to that at some point, at this time it has not.

Thanks.

-Eric

Lovecharlie

I didn’t speak to mine for a year, and I’m still not sure it’s a good idea. He’s In Recovery, which can blow up any minute.

I’ve a long history with addicts, and it’s my experience they need to lose it all. Sometimes no contact is the best thing for them. Sometimes they don’t even care, and sometimes they do. One thing I really noticed, is the patterns. I’m tired of it. I had to stop the pattern in my relationship because I wanted to see real change.

ebecker1982

Thank you, THIS is more the sort of insight I had in mind. "Speak your truth, don't speak mine for me" basically. I appreciate this thought.

I agree, the patterns are a huge issue. This is the longest disruption in the pattern we've had in 8 years. It might be that more time is the appropriate solution, and it's one that I'm also considering.

I'm not yet at a point of shutting down the shared services. I don't see that as a necessary step at this particular point. I MIGHT after I talk to her. That's part of the point of the talk.....a determination of where she's at, whether we can start to slowly rebuild a few things, or if I need to continue my distance. It might be that this needs more time.

Thanks for the thought.

-Eric

mayabee

One thing I learned in Nar-Anon is that boundaries are for us, not the addict. Going no contact or limited contact should be done to as an investment in our own serenity and peace of mind, not to punish the addict or push him or her toward a certain outcome. Restoring contact should be done with eyes wide open. When our son was in active addiction, we kept in contact but did not engage with him when he was verbally abusive or when conversations and texts were counter-productive. I guess my feeling is before making direct contact with the addict, you should consider what expectations you have. Just a "hi, how are you?" check-in? A serious discussion? Some sort of resolution/closure? Also, consider possible pitfalls if you contact the addict: manipulation, the re-opening of old wounds, or an angry confrontation. Not saying you should or shouldn't make contact, but if you decide to do it, proceed with caution.

Eddiebuckle

Speaking from the other side of the fence, I don't know that I would have gotten sober with my ex in my life. The patterns, I would call them ruts, would be very easy to fall back into. They were not her fault, but that didn't make them any less destructive.

I chose to break up with her so I could continue to drink the way I wanted to without the ongoing battle. I drank for another three years, and when I was completely exhausted and could no longer deny the reality of my addiction, I chose to go to rehab. At this point I had just started a relationship with the woman who is now my wife. My recovery was mine alone, and she gave me the considerable space it took for the first couple of years to make that my highest priority. We were engaged after I had five years sobriety and recently celebrated our fourth wedding anniversary. My ex was worthy of marriage (not that she wanted to marry the man she was living with), but I have serious doubts that the outcome would have been the same had we stayed together through the entire process of me bottoming out and attempting to get sober. There was just too much water under the bridge, too much history to overcome.

zoso77

Hey...I don't think we've had the pleasure of meeting. I'm glad you found us and are reaching out.

I'd like to ask you something. If her long term goals are (ostensibly) self sufficiency and self responsibility in recovery, and your long term goal is to regain your sanity, then how does continuing to pay her phone bill help towards accomplishing those goals?

I think all of us here who've been in some form of your shoes have had to answer some really difficult questions regarding the addict in our lives. And all of us here have made a mess of things to one degree or another. I certainly did. But in my case, I started finding answers to those questions when I started getting honest with myself about why I was doing what I was doing. And what I learned was there was a difference between what I wanted and what was best for me.

That's a hard lesson to learn under the best of circumstances.

Anyways, be careful.

ebecker1982

Because I've weighed on what to continue to pay and what to cut off and after considering the totality of the situation including factors that go beyond her addiction that I won't get into more broadly but I assure you are quite legitimate, I've elected to continue paying it. All I can say is that it is a safety issue. And that's as deep as I'll get into that one right now.

AnvilheadII

you need to consider the history and behaviors of the person you want to have a rational thoughtful discussion with.......you are assuming (i think?) that she would be honest and forthcoming and that you can believe every word she says.

i'd caution against putting much veracity in whatever she says.

zoso77

Fair enough. Your reasons are your own. Just be aware it's one more tie to her that, should things totally go south, you'll have to sever.

Take care.

SparkleKitty

To be honest this sounds a lot like an addict saying they're just going to do one more hit. Just one more, just to prove to themselves that they can.

atalose

Has she attempted to break the silence? Has she said “hello” to you or “thank you for not shutting off my phone, Netflix and Amazon music?

In other words you want her to feel sorrow, guilt and remorse for how much her addiction has affected your life and sanity and well being……………because you think she doesn’t already know the damage her addiction does to the people who love her? She knows believe me they know.

Ann

I did it my way, my addict was my son and I was not going to let him die, so I continued to enable him until it almost killed ME.

I hear you clearly, friend, and of course you are free to do whatever you are comfortable doing...you are the one who will live with the results.

But truly, you sound like an alcoholic who is going to try moderate drinking, and that works for some, but is disaster for most.

Keep in mind that opening that door when you have changed (no longer angry) doesn't mean she has changed at all and it's just another verse of the same song.

I wish you well, I pray for her, I would love it for you if everything changed and she got well, truly I would.

That said...if love could save our addicts, not one of us would be here. Sometimes we can love them right into the grave.

Harsh words I know, and sadly quite true.

Bless you, bless her and good luck with your plans.

FireSprite

It might be easier if you give us an idea of what your goal is with everything Eric - everyone has a different end game in mind with our situations & you're right - it can be easy to assume we're all after the same results.

For instance - I'm still with my husband & continually revamping my goals & boundaries as my/our lives have changed & I've gotten healthier in my own recovery. I'm in the minority around SR in this dynamic but for right now at least, it works for me. Not to say it won't change tomorrow, lol.

What are you trying to accomplish in this relationship? What are your boundaries?

ebecker1982

Well....no. At this point I know better than to assume that. She clearly didn't learn from the "Big Lie" about 6 weeks ago when she tried to continue with more lies 3 weeks ago.

But does that warrant continued silence?

I'm not rushing into a conversation all willy-nilly here. But a conversation does need to happen. And it's got to be more substantial and meaningful than me saying "I'm taking everything away, eff you, good luck."

Of course, it also is going to happen on my time. Her sister, who I talk to regularly, confirms she is not in crisis at the moment, and I have a friend's wedding I'm dealing with this week (his wife is Bridezilla...this week I feel more like I need therapy because of her antics than my addict's! YIKES!) So....when I have quiet and serenity and feel at-peace enough to have the conversation....is when it will happen.

ebecker1982

No...and I find the tendency around here for people to try to put words into the mouths of others a bit weird, seeing as we're all in the same boat.

I have no problem with people owning their own faults and saying "you know, in my experience when I said something like that it meant...."

But to assume that because you meant that means that I also mean it...comes off as a bit presumptive and isn't particularly useful to me.

Maybe it's because I'm going to two really great NarAnon meetings and I'm learning to make these conversations about owning my own chaos and asking rather than implying, but I have to say, a lot of this is coming off really judgmental and doesn't really answer my question. And I think I made it clear when I addressed the first person to respond to this post....I am welcoming of constructive criticism, but please don't try to own my situation for me or dictate to me what I am. I have choices.

I also would point out that you do not know my addict, you do not know all the variables at play, and there is a lot that I have not disclosed. I don't mean this as an attack on anyone, forgive me if it comes across that way, but some of the responses I'm getting, while I am sure they're well-meaning or intended to try to reflect back how I'm coming off....are actually making me more reluctant to share more about her and our history in a public way. There is a significant mental illness at play, and no, I'm actually not 100% sure that she realizes the damage that she is doing to others. If those variables were not at play, my approach to her would be much different and I wouldn't be looking at approaches to resume communication.

I recognize that some people will read this and want to continue to dictate to me what I am, and that's fine, I accept that's probably a part of the dynamic of being here, this is not NarAnon. However, please note that when I read some of these responses, I feel less like I'm getting constructive feedback and more like people have decided to dictate to me what to do. I've dealt with the same thing over at PrisonTalk, and those same people taking that approach are involved in relationships with people who go back to prison 2, 3, 4 times and they ultimately continue their enabling behaviors, so you'll forgive me if my personal experience tells me that that's not effective. (I'm also not doing another bid, by the way, because she has done one.)

It's like I have said over there...sometimes the purpose of a support group is to give the strength, courage and wisdom to stay. And sometimes the purpose is to help give the strength, courage and wisdom to walk away. To this point, my decision has been to give some distance, but not walk away, and I would hope that people would respect that and respect my own determination rather than say "you're doing this wrong." If you don't like that I've decided to continue paying or giving access to a few things, that's fine, but that's a problem that lies with you, not with me, since I clearly don't have a problem with doing so. If you'd like to share WHY that bothers you, that might give me an insight. But guilt/shame doesn't work on me. I mean...it doesn't work on her, either, and I didn't employ that tactic for several years and took a step back when I found I'd gone that route and it was just making things worse....so why would it work on me?

Thanks.

-Eric

ebecker1982

Okay, this is useful, thank you FireSprite. In the short time I've been around here I've been appreciative of some of the observations I've read from you on my posts and others.

I'm figuring my boundaries out. The base one: I'm not going back to what I was doing. I'm not taking her to peoples' houses that I don't know. I'm not lying to her family on her behalf anymore. I'm not giving her money directly. At some point I may pull back some of the other things but I'm not ready to do that yet and for reasons that I won't go into detail about here because, frankly, I'm not comfortable discussing some elements of her mental health issues, I am not cutting off her phone until there is a plan in place to ensure her safety.

I'd like to have a conversation with her that helps her to understand where I am at right now because I'm sure that she is confused. I don't know if it would be productive. Or not productive. And I'm not rushing to have it today or tomorrow because, honestly, I have me to take care of for the next few days and a celebration with friends in the form of a wedding. I won't have the conversation before I'm ready and I won't have it before I can come in and not be angry.

I've learned a lot through NarAnon so far, and I've picked up a few things reading these forums. The one thing I haven't read as being a necessity is "throwing the addict away." I have let go of her addiction and trying to control it. I haven't let go of the person I love and care about who suffers. I have some growing to do and a lot of things to take into account. But the one thing I have not decided to do is walk away forever. Some people may take issues with my approach, but I'd like to remind them that just as they have made choices, I'm making mine for my reasons, and I should not have to repeatedly explain those reasons nor should I have to repeatedly explain that there's more to those reasons than I am comfortable discussing here because 1.) my level of comfort in doing so is my decision and 2.) some people here I feel comfortable with in terms of their spirit and intentions, and others...well, I'm not there yet, and their reactions may be well-intentioned but they aren't inspiring confidence.

Anyway...I appreciate your post and will reflect on it further. Thank you.

-Eric

ebecker1982

This observation I appreciate because rather than telling me "you are this" or "this is what you're after" it's a reflection. Reflection back at me...that I find useful. It gives me some idea how I am coming across and gives me something to think about, so thank you for that.

Your talk about "sometimes we can lvoe them right into the grave" was essentially a NarAnon theme we discussed at my meeting last night. And that's something I'm trying to learn not to do. It's why, even though I do feel breaking the silence is necessary, and should come relatively soon (as opposed to, say, in 2021 or something or after Christmas or next month even unless I feel it needs to wait until next month for my own reasons...) I have avoided rushing into the conversation, too. Plus...I've had a pretty busy week, and while I'm still learning a lot, one of my new things is I make time for me. NarAnon...that's for me. The time I spend on this forum...that's for me. And maybe when I give an insight it could help someone else, but I no longer want to be in the business of just doing for others then expecting something in return or claiming to be altruistic. Altruism made me an enabler. I think I was addicted to this idea of "altruism." Doing for others is not bad...but doing for others without regard for self will make you sick. At least...that has become my observation. And of course...if you yourself are not well....you can't effective help yourself...and you definitely cannot effectively help others or make smart decisions about when it's okay to help and when you should stand back.

Your observation that I sound like an alcoholic probably is an accurate one. It's like I've said.....I've effectively become addicted to my addict. The thing is...that is not her fault. That is my own. The question became, about a month ago...what was I going to do about it?

In my daily reflections, I find my point of view changing and my answer to the question "what would I do in this situation?" change as I lose anger and gain insight.

A joke I told my kids' mom this morning (I have two kids from a previous relationship and their mother and I have managed to move past any bitterness and maintain an exceptional friendship at this stage) was "well, I got my 30 day chip, and I tell you, I still don't know exactly what relapse looks like in this program but I assume if I do it something will eventually trigger in my head and I'll know." Enabling is a different kind of addiction....not just in terms of substance (or lack of actual physical substance) but in terms of knowing the balance. If I'm a drug addict, I know I'm sober if I'm clean and I'm not sober if I'm using. As an enabler.....do I know whether or not my well-intended actions are actually enabling or not? Short of just not caring about anyone (which some people do, and I think that's equally unhealthy,) how do I know, for certain, especially at an early phase, when I have crossed that boundary?

A month ago I would have told you I am not okay. Today I can tell you I'm starting to be okay but I still have a long way to go.

I hope maybe that gives a bit more of a look into where my head's at, if nothing else.

Thank you.

-Eric

dandylion

ebecker…….this is what I am wondering...and suggesting, at the same time. Why don't you just do whatever you have decided to do. I have learned, that, in the long run, that is what people do, anyway. People do what they really, really, down deep, want to do.

In other news...on forums such as this, I think the best general advice is to take what works ...or, is useful for you....and, leave the rest. Just leave it....no use, really. of arguing over how the cow ate the cabbage...or, how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.....lol....
As you well know....on a public forum like this, one will ALWAYS get a kalidescope of responses.....it is simply unavoidable.....