My previous thread...
"O you must wear your rue with difference".
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 1,146
My previous thread...
... was removed because it was not suitable for children. Basically, XAH did something revolting. This is after a LONG time of no contact on my end. I did not and have not since attempted contact. That was entirely his doing. Initially, I didn't care at all but now I'm back in therapy for survivors of sexual assault. I have not been to therapy for it for two years. This incident was triggering for me. I'm completely sick of everything and anything connected to him. The more that gets revealed the more I think he's a reptile in a human suit. In the time I've known him, I've seen him go from "pretending" to be healthy and acting self-aware, to suddenly OD-ing, to then being abusive and blaming his friends and family for his OD. He would blame me for being attached, for being detached, for being neutral. He could blame people who he had not had contact with for years... and then do something disgusting to them for no reason whatsoever.
A result of my time away from the craziness is that I now get a "feeling" when I think a recovering addict is lying about their spouse... or lying about anyone else. I also am a lot less compassionate than I was. I used to be a very, very compassionate person -- but that has been squeezed out of me. I can now walk past someone who has fallen over on the street and not blink... and I think this is both good (for me), and bad (for society).
If you responded to my previous thread, I don't remember who you are, but thank you.
A result of my time away from the craziness is that I now get a "feeling" when I think a recovering addict is lying about their spouse... or lying about anyone else. I also am a lot less compassionate than I was. I used to be a very, very compassionate person -- but that has been squeezed out of me. I can now walk past someone who has fallen over on the street and not blink... and I think this is both good (for me), and bad (for society).
If you responded to my previous thread, I don't remember who you are, but thank you.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Los Angeles, California
Posts: 41
Hi Ophelia,
I missed your original thread, but it sounds like what happened was absolutely horrific and I am sorry you're going through all of this.
When my addict is in her addiction, I actually have taken to say "she is in her addict lizard brain," so I nodded along to your "reptile suit" analogy.
At some point, we get sick and tired of being sick and tired.
I hope you are doing what you need to do to take care of you.
Bless you on your journey.
-Eric
I missed your original thread, but it sounds like what happened was absolutely horrific and I am sorry you're going through all of this.
When my addict is in her addiction, I actually have taken to say "she is in her addict lizard brain," so I nodded along to your "reptile suit" analogy.
At some point, we get sick and tired of being sick and tired.
I hope you are doing what you need to do to take care of you.
Bless you on your journey.
-Eric
Member
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 91
Ophelia, the alternative to him blaming you and others for his mania is that he would have to take responsibility for his actions. He obviously is not anywhere in the vicinity of owning his behavior. As far as the condition of his mental state goes, he definitely is stuck in the old unevolved lizard section of his brain. That's what drugs and alcohol do to ones mind.It disallows development to take place as well as bringing out the worst in people. No contact is what I desperately cling to in regards to my addict because all she wants from me is money for crack or heroin and to supply that to her is not love. I'll pray for you tonight. Be well.
Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 13,560
I have to agree with you Ophelia. I did not see your prior post, but I am definitely sure it is horrific.
I too find myself lacking in the compassion department. This is a time in the world that addiction is becoming more and more "accepted." That being said, I see many addicts that have selfish, horrible behavior, and I think they are just selfish, horrible people.
Not all addicts are horrible. Not all horrible people are addicts. The reality is, just because you cure an addiction does not mean that person is going to turn into some pillar of society.
Dealing with an addict in my life has hardened me in some ways that I don't think will ever change. I won't ever have tolerance for that at all in my life, ever. I do however have much less drama and trouble in my life once I removed the toxic people. And I continue to remove anyone who becomes toxic, for any reason. And I think that is absolutely ok.
I too find myself lacking in the compassion department. This is a time in the world that addiction is becoming more and more "accepted." That being said, I see many addicts that have selfish, horrible behavior, and I think they are just selfish, horrible people.
Not all addicts are horrible. Not all horrible people are addicts. The reality is, just because you cure an addiction does not mean that person is going to turn into some pillar of society.
Dealing with an addict in my life has hardened me in some ways that I don't think will ever change. I won't ever have tolerance for that at all in my life, ever. I do however have much less drama and trouble in my life once I removed the toxic people. And I continue to remove anyone who becomes toxic, for any reason. And I think that is absolutely ok.
Nature Girl
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: By The Lake
Posts: 60,328
I don't think I (we?) have become cold and non-compassionate, I think we have seen the reality of the situation and recognize that "we" are not the solution. We are no longer vulnerable to become their victims...and not the victims of our own codependency.
Today I feel a pang of sadness when I see a street person, or someone who is consumed by addiction...but I know that there are places and organizations available that can help them if and when they reach out. I am no longer suckered by sad stories (usually made up) and even if they are real, "I" am not the person they should be told to.
What he does and why he does it, is his to own. Nobody else is to blame, nobody else is the answer to "his" problems. If he has become a terrible person, then it's probably good that he wears the badge...that's what I call it when a person tells you very quickly the kind of person they are, by their actions and words. When they wear the bad, we steer clear. We are no longer fooled.
That's not cold, that's not without compassion, that's what I have learned through years of recovery. My journey has taken me through and from painful places...their painful place may be just what they need to find their own recovery. That's faith...and hope...and a prayer thrown in.
Ophelia, I don't know the details of what you have been through...I don't need to know. What I see today is a "survivor" who is no longer a victim, a strong and brave lady who has taken back her life and is no longer willing to give it away.
I am sorry you were triggered, that happens to the best of us now and then. The difference today is that you know what to do with that trigger to take care of it and put it back where it belongs, in the "lessons I have learned that I will no longer allow to hurt me" part of your brain.
Today I feel a pang of sadness when I see a street person, or someone who is consumed by addiction...but I know that there are places and organizations available that can help them if and when they reach out. I am no longer suckered by sad stories (usually made up) and even if they are real, "I" am not the person they should be told to.
What he does and why he does it, is his to own. Nobody else is to blame, nobody else is the answer to "his" problems. If he has become a terrible person, then it's probably good that he wears the badge...that's what I call it when a person tells you very quickly the kind of person they are, by their actions and words. When they wear the bad, we steer clear. We are no longer fooled.
That's not cold, that's not without compassion, that's what I have learned through years of recovery. My journey has taken me through and from painful places...their painful place may be just what they need to find their own recovery. That's faith...and hope...and a prayer thrown in.
Ophelia, I don't know the details of what you have been through...I don't need to know. What I see today is a "survivor" who is no longer a victim, a strong and brave lady who has taken back her life and is no longer willing to give it away.
I am sorry you were triggered, that happens to the best of us now and then. The difference today is that you know what to do with that trigger to take care of it and put it back where it belongs, in the "lessons I have learned that I will no longer allow to hurt me" part of your brain.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Wareham, Mass
Posts: 7,067
I think that we come to accept that, as Ann said, that we aren’t the solution, and that there is only so much we can do.
The rest is up to them.
My sib’s nasty, boorish behavior has caused my mom’s housekeeper and meds dispenser to throw up her hands and quit.
Three years ago this would have caused me to explode in rage at him.
It would have done no good, as nothing is ever his fault.
Today I recognize that I can’t legislate his behavior.
The rest is up to them.
My sib’s nasty, boorish behavior has caused my mom’s housekeeper and meds dispenser to throw up her hands and quit.
Three years ago this would have caused me to explode in rage at him.
It would have done no good, as nothing is ever his fault.
Today I recognize that I can’t legislate his behavior.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 635
So sorry for whatever happened. It sounds horrific. I know what you mean about getting a feeling. I'm definitely the same way. I feel like I can now spot an addict from a mile away. Same goes for lies. People laugh when I say I want to drug test and perform credit and background checks before even dating another man... but I'm dead serious. I don't understand how people take more precautions hiring a babysitter than they do engaging in a relationship with someone. That person is going to be in your children's lives MORE than a babysitter would! Okay, kinda went off subject there. Anyway, I'm so sorry for what you went through. But I think you'll find that "gut feeling" will come in handy. You DO need to protect yourself.
Big hugs.
Big hugs.
"O you must wear your rue with difference".
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 1,146
I agree with you.
The funny thing about being on these boards is that... sometimes I do read about addicts talking about their significant others or family or friends... and they are frustrated by their lack of compassion and they call those people "crazy" or "selfish". They say, "think about how the kids are affected by the fact that my ex won't let me spend time with the kids unsupervised." Then they apply the things they have learnt about managing their addiction to their SO or F&F... and every time someone says to them, "I'm upset because you did this," they turn around and say, "you're taking my inventory, you should take your own inventory... look at what YOU did to make this happen... etc." I mean, I see this ALL the time. My ex used to do this: if I was upset because of something he did that was abusive -- like if he punched me, for example, and then as an excuse said, "well, I wasn't aware of what I was doing because I am mentally ill" (he used to say things like this; he had/has/maybe has depression)... and if I tried to tell him that I didn't like to be treated that way, he would say, "well look at YOUR behavior. You are making me do this or that because you are making me stressed by bringing up my behavior when I am a person with a mental illness. I only drug myself because you expect me to act a certain way. You expect too much from me and I'm ill... how many times do I have to tell you that I am ill? It's not that I don't care about you... not everything is about you." The only thing I expected from him was to treat me with respect, and unfortunately, it was very clear from his actions that everything was about HIM. I talked about leaving so many times. Every time I talked about leaving... he would have an OD... or some other crisis... or he would make everything my fault and the onus was on ME to fix things or he would (threaten to) die.
The take away from that rant (above) is that I'm angry at him because I have to be. He was very manipulative. If I am not angry at him, I could get suckered into feeling sorry for him and I've done enough of that, which is not good for his recovery (not that I care if he recovers or not) or my well-being. I am also angry at me... for NOT lacking compassion. I wish I had been less compassionate.
I know that there are people who are addicted to things who are nice people, they just have difficulties -- there are some recovering addicts here who are these people. I also have some friends who can't quit smoking or they really like weed or they are drunk often. But I am not living with them or married to them. And they have never lied to me. They have never stolen from me. They do not get upset when I say, "I can't do that. I'm not free for that. I can't talk about that. I can't help you with that." They don't accuse me of being cruel for having boundaries. There is mutual respect there. Recently a friend called me and told me that she was an addict. She said, I think I should stop. I think it's better for my kids if I stop. I said, "you can if you want to and there are services to help you with that." She said, "I just don't want to stop." I said, "I think you should do what you feel is right for your life -- you can stop, you don't have to stop... but then I'm not your psychologist, so I don't know what else to say." Then we changed the subject and it was COOL. No drama.
So few people understand what you have to handle if you're the one living in proximity to an addict who refuses recovery. It's like the number of people who go to psychologists because they do not have a community that supports them; the number of people who are addicts because society accepts that addiction "happens" is... I think, it's an... an epidemic. I think addiction is a disease of choice. You have to have some unhealthy habits to begin with for it to happen.
It's so hard for me to write clearly about this nowadays. The subject exhausts me. I feel like I'm not in the thick of the woods anymore, and looking back at the journey makes me emotional, which is tiring. And yet I sometimes get dragged back against my will. Part of it is PTSD. Part of it is... the fact that he's still out there selling some story about how he needs money because everyone in his past has been an ogre.
The funny thing about being on these boards is that... sometimes I do read about addicts talking about their significant others or family or friends... and they are frustrated by their lack of compassion and they call those people "crazy" or "selfish". They say, "think about how the kids are affected by the fact that my ex won't let me spend time with the kids unsupervised." Then they apply the things they have learnt about managing their addiction to their SO or F&F... and every time someone says to them, "I'm upset because you did this," they turn around and say, "you're taking my inventory, you should take your own inventory... look at what YOU did to make this happen... etc." I mean, I see this ALL the time. My ex used to do this: if I was upset because of something he did that was abusive -- like if he punched me, for example, and then as an excuse said, "well, I wasn't aware of what I was doing because I am mentally ill" (he used to say things like this; he had/has/maybe has depression)... and if I tried to tell him that I didn't like to be treated that way, he would say, "well look at YOUR behavior. You are making me do this or that because you are making me stressed by bringing up my behavior when I am a person with a mental illness. I only drug myself because you expect me to act a certain way. You expect too much from me and I'm ill... how many times do I have to tell you that I am ill? It's not that I don't care about you... not everything is about you." The only thing I expected from him was to treat me with respect, and unfortunately, it was very clear from his actions that everything was about HIM. I talked about leaving so many times. Every time I talked about leaving... he would have an OD... or some other crisis... or he would make everything my fault and the onus was on ME to fix things or he would (threaten to) die.
The take away from that rant (above) is that I'm angry at him because I have to be. He was very manipulative. If I am not angry at him, I could get suckered into feeling sorry for him and I've done enough of that, which is not good for his recovery (not that I care if he recovers or not) or my well-being. I am also angry at me... for NOT lacking compassion. I wish I had been less compassionate.
I know that there are people who are addicted to things who are nice people, they just have difficulties -- there are some recovering addicts here who are these people. I also have some friends who can't quit smoking or they really like weed or they are drunk often. But I am not living with them or married to them. And they have never lied to me. They have never stolen from me. They do not get upset when I say, "I can't do that. I'm not free for that. I can't talk about that. I can't help you with that." They don't accuse me of being cruel for having boundaries. There is mutual respect there. Recently a friend called me and told me that she was an addict. She said, I think I should stop. I think it's better for my kids if I stop. I said, "you can if you want to and there are services to help you with that." She said, "I just don't want to stop." I said, "I think you should do what you feel is right for your life -- you can stop, you don't have to stop... but then I'm not your psychologist, so I don't know what else to say." Then we changed the subject and it was COOL. No drama.
So few people understand what you have to handle if you're the one living in proximity to an addict who refuses recovery. It's like the number of people who go to psychologists because they do not have a community that supports them; the number of people who are addicts because society accepts that addiction "happens" is... I think, it's an... an epidemic. I think addiction is a disease of choice. You have to have some unhealthy habits to begin with for it to happen.
It's so hard for me to write clearly about this nowadays. The subject exhausts me. I feel like I'm not in the thick of the woods anymore, and looking back at the journey makes me emotional, which is tiring. And yet I sometimes get dragged back against my will. Part of it is PTSD. Part of it is... the fact that he's still out there selling some story about how he needs money because everyone in his past has been an ogre.
Originally Posted by hopeful4 
I have to agree with you Ophelia. I did not see your prior post, but I am definitely sure it is horrific.
I too find myself lacking in the compassion department. This is a time in the world that addiction is becoming more and more "accepted." That being said, I see many addicts that have selfish, horrible behavior, and I think they are just selfish, horrible people.
Not all addicts are horrible. Not all horrible people are addicts. The reality is, just because you cure an addiction does not mean that person is going to turn into some pillar of society.
Dealing with an addict in my life has hardened me in some ways that I don't think will ever change. I won't ever have tolerance for that at all in my life, ever. I do however have much less drama and trouble in my life once I removed the toxic people. And I continue to remove anyone who becomes toxic, for any reason. And I think that is absolutely ok.
I too find myself lacking in the compassion department. This is a time in the world that addiction is becoming more and more "accepted." That being said, I see many addicts that have selfish, horrible behavior, and I think they are just selfish, horrible people.
Not all addicts are horrible. Not all horrible people are addicts. The reality is, just because you cure an addiction does not mean that person is going to turn into some pillar of society.
Dealing with an addict in my life has hardened me in some ways that I don't think will ever change. I won't ever have tolerance for that at all in my life, ever. I do however have much less drama and trouble in my life once I removed the toxic people. And I continue to remove anyone who becomes toxic, for any reason. And I think that is absolutely ok.
"O you must wear your rue with difference".
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 1,146
Thank you. I made a screen shot of this post.
Originally Posted by Ann
I don't think I (we?) have become cold and non-compassionate, I think we have seen the reality of the situation and recognize that "we" are not the solution. We are no longer vulnerable to become their victims...and not the victims of our own codependency.
Today I feel a pang of sadness when I see a street person, or someone who is consumed by addiction...but I know that there are places and organizations available that can help them if and when they reach out. I am no longer suckered by sad stories (usually made up) and even if they are real, "I" am not the person they should be told to.
What he does and why he does it, is his to own. Nobody else is to blame, nobody else is the answer to "his" problems. If he has become a terrible person, then it's probably good that he wears the badge...that's what I call it when a person tells you very quickly the kind of person they are, by their actions and words. When they wear the bad, we steer clear. We are no longer fooled.
That's not cold, that's not without compassion, that's what I have learned through years of recovery. My journey has taken me through and from painful places...their painful place may be just what they need to find their own recovery. That's faith...and hope...and a prayer thrown in.
Ophelia, I don't know the details of what you have been through...I don't need to know. What I see today is a "survivor" who is no longer a victim, a strong and brave lady who has taken back her life and is no longer willing to give it away.
I am sorry you were triggered, that happens to the best of us now and then. The difference today is that you know what to do with that trigger to take care of it and put it back where it belongs, in the "lessons I have learned that I will no longer allow to hurt me" part of your brain.
Today I feel a pang of sadness when I see a street person, or someone who is consumed by addiction...but I know that there are places and organizations available that can help them if and when they reach out. I am no longer suckered by sad stories (usually made up) and even if they are real, "I" am not the person they should be told to.
What he does and why he does it, is his to own. Nobody else is to blame, nobody else is the answer to "his" problems. If he has become a terrible person, then it's probably good that he wears the badge...that's what I call it when a person tells you very quickly the kind of person they are, by their actions and words. When they wear the bad, we steer clear. We are no longer fooled.
That's not cold, that's not without compassion, that's what I have learned through years of recovery. My journey has taken me through and from painful places...their painful place may be just what they need to find their own recovery. That's faith...and hope...and a prayer thrown in.
Ophelia, I don't know the details of what you have been through...I don't need to know. What I see today is a "survivor" who is no longer a victim, a strong and brave lady who has taken back her life and is no longer willing to give it away.
I am sorry you were triggered, that happens to the best of us now and then. The difference today is that you know what to do with that trigger to take care of it and put it back where it belongs, in the "lessons I have learned that I will no longer allow to hurt me" part of your brain.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Wareham, Mass
Posts: 7,067
It is so very difficult to deal with an addict cuz they just take no effin prisoners, do they?
I hate, hate, HATE dealing with my addict sib. It’s like throwing myself against a brick wall.
He remembers nothing I tell him, he is just useless at a time when my mom could really use his help, and, as stated before, things that happen are never his fault.
He lies, he says anything to deflect away from his behavior, and he is a selfish, self absorbed person.
The cat likes him. That’s the best I can say.
Sometimes I am so filled with anger and resentment that I am amazed I don’t spontaneously combust.
I feel like Carrie after the bucket of blood dropped on her.
So...I get it.
I hate, hate, HATE dealing with my addict sib. It’s like throwing myself against a brick wall.
He remembers nothing I tell him, he is just useless at a time when my mom could really use his help, and, as stated before, things that happen are never his fault.
He lies, he says anything to deflect away from his behavior, and he is a selfish, self absorbed person.
The cat likes him. That’s the best I can say.
Sometimes I am so filled with anger and resentment that I am amazed I don’t spontaneously combust.
I feel like Carrie after the bucket of blood dropped on her.
So...I get it.
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