When do you know you are done?

Old 02-26-2018, 09:05 AM
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When do you know you are done?

It's been a long while since I posted. I've had a 14 year journey with my niece.

Felonies, incarceration, 2 in-patient treatment sessions.

on the good side, graduated college, paralegal certificate, held a job for a few years,

ADD and Anxiety meds.

Then, she relapsed with boyfriend, her dad died, she moved in with an unsavory group of people, went bankrupt trying to "start a business" (get rich quick thing) and now she's back living with me.

She is delusional, thinking she will be making $85 million in passive income doing affiliate marketing (insane) within the year, while she is sleeping all day, up all night, and can't even complete the projects she does get on fiver.

I am ready to just say, leave. Not in anger, but realizing (finally!) that I am not helping her. there may not be any help for her.

The big thing is - I just don't think she wants to grow up.

Maybe I don't want to grow up - and realize how really helpless I am.

I would be grateful for any and all comments to this.

How do I know when I am done? How can I have peace with it.

Love to all,
Troubledone
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Old 02-26-2018, 11:32 AM
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Hi

Couple quick questions:

1. Is she living with you alone or is her boyfriend also there?
2. Is she sober now or not? If not what drugs is she using?
3. How old is your Niece?
4. Is she working any type of solid recovery program?
5. How does she earn money? Is she working?

Thanks
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Old 02-26-2018, 02:07 PM
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HardLessons,
Thanks for your reply. To anwer your questions.

1. she is living here alone - we don't allow any guests without approval and no one stays in the house past 9:00 p.m. Her boyfriends usually last about 6 weeks because she starts off all sweet and then gets very demanding.

2. She does not appear to be using meth, cocaine or opiods that I can tell. She does take ritalin for the ADD and beta blockers for anxiety. she does drink and says she smokes Marjuiana from time to time.

3. she is 36 (golly when I type that I can't believe it myself)

4. I can't say she is working a recovery program. She thinks that she does not need that or that she is working the 12 steps in her own way - which is that she surfs the internet and listens to all types of videos about tapping, byneural beats, twin flames, evangelism, reike healing, etc. and she thinks that is helping her - but these all seem like distractions to me. She does not work a 12 step program and her idea of going to church is watching a sermon on Youtube.

5. She "owns her own business" - which is really that she has a web site and has gone into about $45,000 debt paying people to teach her how to earn "passive income" and affiliate marketing. She markets herself as a "business consultant" when she has no more marketing, finance or business knowledge than you would expect for someone who has never studied any of these disciplines. She sometimes gets a gig with fiver (an on line place to market services) doing paralegal projects here and there, but none turns into repeat business because she over-promises and under-delivers (if she delivers). Right now she is not paying any of her bills except cell phone and storage unit (we didn't let her move all her stuff here). So she has no insurance on her car, does not pay rent or food here. She did have a job with a law firm but managed to get herself fired because she didn't like being on time or working 32 hours a week. Her goal is to work 4 hours a day living at the beach and making $85 million (I don't know where she gets these numbers)

Golly, when I answer those questions, I realize why I'm stressed.

Any thoughts?
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Old 02-26-2018, 03:54 PM
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Troubledone, I'm sure others will be able to help you more but I will try!
My experience with my AH is that when he promises the world or has ridiculous/far fetched dreams, it usually is a sign that he has relapsed or will do soon. I'm not sure if this is a 'classic' addict behaviour but it's definitely a pattern I have noticed in him. The bigger his ego, the more active he is as an addict.
It sounds like you have tried to help her a lot, I have learnt that sometimes helping is actually stopping them from reaching their rock bottom.
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Old 02-26-2018, 04:59 PM
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PrincessofHope
Thank you for your reply. I agree - I think I am asking because I am realizing that really it isn't up to me.
Thanks!
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Old 02-27-2018, 09:01 AM
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Troubledone

I read all the additional information. It was an eye opener to me. Hopefully it was for you as well.

Id be very concerned as to whether or not she is clean from the meth, cocaine, & opioids. Those are not easy drugs to kick without serious help. From what you wrote, she has admitted to still taking other drugs. It does still sound like addiction & drug abuse problems.

Sleeping all day & up all hours of the night is a pattern I have seen with drug addiction problems.

Your Niece is 36 years old & by your description is no living in reality. But if you think about it, she doesn't have to live in reality because you are taking care of everything for her. Your making it very easy for her to continue in her self destructive life style. The life style of an addict.

At one time, not too long ago, I tried to provide a stable quality good life for my addict. In the end, in spite of going to great lengths to help her, All I did was seriously enable her. She got worse - much worse. It turned into a very bad situation for both her & I. I had very good intentions - I meant well - but it turned out badly.

Chances are you are not helping your Niece to get better. You need to examine that closely. I'm sure you already are trying to work through that now & that's why you are here.

Education concerning drug addiction is the key to your understanding.

I am sorry for your situation with your Niece. In my opinion she needs professional help. She needs sobriety & a long term plan for recovery . If she does not want recovery, then that's her choice for life. Please don't let her make that choice become your problem.

Thanks
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Old 02-28-2018, 04:19 AM
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HardLessons - thank you so much for your reply.

I think I have been coming to the same conclusions and my husband and I are getting ready to make a change in this situation. We have been sitting with what to do and I think we have both come to the conclusion that there really is nothing we can do to truly help her because she does not want to live in reality. And us allowing that drains us and distracts her from the work she has to do to become healthy.

I've been in this same place with her before, but it was easier because the problem was so obvious and in my face. This time it is more subtle - she hasn't been arrested, and she does not appear out-and-out psychotic. But I think this is just another phase of the addiction process - where both she and I are "bargaining" with the disease.

She is dancing around recovery and in a way I think I am too - hoping that I won't have to do the hard thing.

Your post gives me some needed clarity and I have the sense that putting things off is just prolonging the agony.

thanks so much for your thoughtful reply. It is a big help.
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Old 02-28-2018, 11:33 AM
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Hi Troubledone

In general, I really don't like to give advice. When I respond to posts I more tend to just relate my experiences. I have made a lot of big mistakes when dealing with my addict. I helped to create a very messy ugly situation. I take full responsibility for my part in it all.

From what you wrote previously, its clear your niece is unfortunately not sober or seeking recovery.

In my experience with my addict, she was never sober or ever seeking recovery. Because of those facts her & I were never able to have any type of normal healthy relationship. It all ended in a disaster.

I wish you the best of luck.
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Old 02-28-2018, 06:33 PM
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Update -

Sparing everyone the details, my niece asked me if my husband was unhappy with her being with us.

Basically, yes - and if she wanted it different, we should talk. also said I thought she was living there all on her own terms and that it didn't feel very good to us.

Result: defensiveness, retreat to room, no progress, accusations, I'm causing her to be depressed. blah blah blah

And - If I hear another hair brained business scheme, my head will blow up - now she is "partnering" with some ***** in another state who wants to do enlightenment workshops in Thailand. - she can't even tell how insane that sounds.

I guess I am getting my answers.

I am tempted to write all the crazy stuff surrounding this, but after 14 years of this, I just don't have the energy.

At least I am gaining clarity - thanks for listening
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Old 03-01-2018, 03:21 AM
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Sparing everyone the details, my niece asked me if my husband was unhappy with her being with us.

Basically, yes - and if she wanted it different, we should talk. also said I thought she was living there all on her own terms and that it didn't feel very good to us.

Result: defensiveness, retreat to room, no progress, accusations, I'm causing her to be depressed. blah blah blah
It's called manipulation and she is calling the shots, playing the guilt card to make you feel bad for wanting her to leave.

How do I know this? Because my son was the king manipulator and I see myself in your story.

It won't stop until YOU say so. She never will...never. She has her soft place to fall and who knows what schemes she may be up to on the internet but I'd be suspicious of that too.

My thoughts are to give her a deadline to find her own place, or check into rehab...and stick to it. Remind her often that the day is approaching and that when it comes, if she doesn't leave, you will change your locks and no longer allow her to come to your place. Sounds tough but trust me, she's tougher.

"We" are not their only option, we are not even a good one. Here is a list of real options that you could hand her.

Rehab...the Salvation Army programs are free and very good. Not sure where you live, but in Canada most rehabs are paid by government health ministries.

Sober house...she will need to investigate what may be available in your area.

Get a job, any job, and give you the money to set aside for first and last month's rent somewhere. I say this because she may say she is saving and then will have some boo hoo story of how the money was lost.

Women's Shelters also offer training, and a safe place to stay, sometimes when abuse is not in the picture or she could meet with a counselor there for suggestions.

If all else fails maybe pay first and last for rent somewhere for her and help her move. This will get her out and give her a chance to decide to work to stay there or give it up and live on the street....her choice.

Wow, I just re-read your post and noticed the part of you doing this for 14 years. That's even longer than I went with my son before the crazy circus left town.

I think that you may want to look at some options for yourself too, like maybe going to meetings (Al-anon, CoDA, or family meetings) and find your balance and get some backbone (I say that with love in my heart because I have been where you are and I know your pain).

This will never stop until you say "enough" and mean it. You have the power to reclaim your life. You are not responsible for her bad choices.
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Old 03-03-2018, 06:53 AM
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Ann

Thank you! Your post is timely and helpful!

Thank you especially for some of the options you mentioned.

My husband and I agreed to give her 6 months. If I do the math, that gives her plenty of time to get a real job, save money and be ready to move.

I am thinking that if she doesn't go that route and isn't ready to move, those options of women's shelter, etc., are ok with me.

In those 14 years, she wasn't with us always - but the pattern was the same - ranging from full on addiction to some periods where she seemed to improve (got her paralegal certificate with a 4.0) but she never did take responsibility for herself - she was always with a boyfriend or subsidized with student loans, etc.

When she moved in last May, we gave her till March (now) to move out and about three months ago with the deadline looming, she told us she was taking out a student loan and going back to on-line school to cover expenses when she moved... we talked her out of going further into debt and gave her more time - so I see what you mean about manipulation. I think she really got us there.

We talked her right back into our house - we thought we were being compassionate, but I think we were really just not wanting to face reality.

And - I used to go to NarAnon - and I think I need to go back.

thanks again for your post. It reaffirms where we want to go with this.
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Old 03-03-2018, 07:01 AM
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To reply to your original question:

You know you are done when you have run out of energy trying to save them, and you JUST DONT CARE. You don't have to hate them to get there.
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Old 03-03-2018, 10:34 AM
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Eauchiche

Amen!

I have been cleaning my house today and getting so much done. While this isn't over yet, there is something energizing about just not caring anymore.

Or rather - having run out of energy to "save her", I am shifting the focus (like it is supposed to be) on saving myself. Not angry, not upset, just not playing anymore.

And I am thinking that the running out of energy is the loss of motivation that occurs when I wake up and realize I am trying to nail jello to the wall. Just not worth the effort because it just doesn't work.

thanks for your thoughts!
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