Is it normal..?

Old 12-06-2017, 04:47 AM
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Is it normal..?

Anyone who has read my recent posts will know that my now ex boyfriend is a cocaine addict who has left me for a woman who uses too.
I've decided to cut my losses and not hang around, but I'm left with a few questions and one of them stems around their change in behaviour towards us.
He could always be mean, shutting off contact for days to 'punish' me if we'd had an argument, but then most of the time, he was lovely. (When it suited him eh?!) he could be supportive, sweet, and affectionate.. honestly most of the relationship was great.
His recent treatment of me has left me thinking that literally, he's 'not there' any more. His personality has basically gone and all that's left is a shell of a man with only cocaine addiction. No person, just addiction. Yeah he goes about his daily business, he goes to work, drives his car, goes shopping, sees his 'friends' etc, but it's like he's just walking, talking addiction. He's cold, cruel, mean and downright nasty to me.
Does anyone have any thoughts on this? Is this normally what happens to addicts eventually? Has anyone else felt this same way as me?
Any thoughts and opinions welcome. Thanks.
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Old 12-06-2017, 05:21 AM
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I'm just talking about my experience, and what I experience is similar to you in that I thought that he had been "replaced" by his addiction and that for most of the relationship, he was fine. Truth is, he was never fine. He was gradually getting more and more addicted, sicker and sicker, but he had been trying hard to hide it and act "normal". The worse his addiction became, the less he was able to hide it. I think it was like there was two of him: the him that wanted a normal life just like everyone else, and since I was willing to be there for him, he wanted me in it; and the him that loved drugs/alcohol over anything else on earth, even his family, his friends, or his wife and pets. The addict in my life was and still is a deeply troubled person in denial of their pain... so they drug or drink it away. It can seem like a sudden change, simply the addict was putting on a show for you -- mine kept it on for a decade. There were times when the mask would slip and I would say, "but hold on..." and he would intercept my gut feelings with some explanation that seemed only slightly implausible, but because I loved him and I wanted to trust him, I did trust him. I don't know if that answers your question or not.

I think that I used to think that he was "replaced" by a walking talking disease, but the truth is that the disease (if you think addiction is a disease, which some people don't), was always part of him. It takes a lot of work to get drugs or alcohol to abuse, a lot of planning. In my ex's case, he had to first buy the drugs, then he had to buy a thing he was going to use as a method of delivery, that's two separate shops and/or dealer already. After that, there's making the bong (because he spends all his money on drugs, he didn't have a functioning bong, he had to make one), then there's using scissors to cut the drugs into little bits and to mix it with some other rubbish he enjoyed smoking. And also, there were probably other drugs... because the side effects really seemed like there were other drugs. Then there was the "having to sneak it all past the wife" and also "coming up with a story to tell the wife", and also gargling with mouthwash / bathing afterwards (and coming up with an excuse for that too... and that was in the early stages, when he still had control over his use and he was not so lost that he stopped bathing entirely because it took time away from his drug use). At ANY point during this lengthy process, he could have said to himself, "what the hell am I doing?" He chose to start. He chose to continue. So I think that there was something in him that thought it was okay to keep doing this until he was totally out of control, until he lost his family, his home, his money, his health. He started the drug use because he felt that, for him, there were exceptions to the rule of trust being integral to a loving relationship.

So for me, I would say that there was always a part of the addict that is addicted, and likely always will be. I don't know if that answer helps you or not.
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Old 12-06-2017, 06:03 AM
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Originally Posted by OpheliaKatz View Post
I'm just talking about my experience, and what I experience is similar to you in that I thought that he had been "replaced" by his addiction and that for most of the relationship, he was fine. Truth is, he was never fine. He was gradually getting more and more addicted, sicker and sicker, but he had been trying hard to hide it and act "normal". The worse his addiction became, the less he was able to hide it. I think it was like there was two of him: the him that wanted a normal life just like everyone else, and since I was willing to be there for him, he wanted me in it; and the him that loved drugs/alcohol over anything else on earth, even his family, his friends, or his wife and pets. The addict in my life was and still is a deeply troubled person in denial of their pain... so they drug or drink it away. It can seem like a sudden change, simply the addict was putting on a show for you -- mine kept it on for a decade. There were times when the mask would slip and I would say, "but hold on..." and he would intercept my gut feelings with some explanation that seemed only slightly implausible, but because I loved him and I wanted to trust him, I did trust him. I don't know if that answers your question or not.

I think that I used to think that he was "replaced" by a walking talking disease, but the truth is that the disease (if you think addiction is a disease, which some people don't), was always part of him. It takes a lot of work to get drugs or alcohol to abuse, a lot of planning. In my ex's case, he had to first buy the drugs, then he had to buy a thing he was going to use as a method of delivery, that's two separate shops and/or dealer already. After that, there's making the bong (because he spends all his money on drugs, he didn't have a functioning bong, he had to make one), then there's using scissors to cut the drugs into little bits and to mix it with some other rubbish he enjoyed smoking. And also, there were probably other drugs... because the side effects really seemed like there were other drugs. Then there was the "having to sneak it all past the wife" and also "coming up with a story to tell the wife", and also gargling with mouthwash / bathing afterwards (and coming up with an excuse for that too... and that was in the early stages, when he still had control over his use and he was not so lost that he stopped bathing entirely because it took time away from his drug use). At ANY point during this lengthy process, he could have said to himself, "what the hell am I doing?" He chose to start. He chose to continue. So I think that there was something in him that thought it was okay to keep doing this until he was totally out of control, until he lost his family, his home, his money, his health. He started the drug use because he felt that, for him, there were exceptions to the rule of trust being integral to a loving relationship.

So for me, I would say that there was always a part of the addict that is addicted, and likely always will be. I don't know if that answer helps you or not.
Thank you for taking the time to reply such an insightful response. It has helped. It makes sense. I do believe addiction is an illness, I've seen it with alcohol and prescription drugs in my family. A part of me feels sorry for addicts as a lot start to use socially to 'fit in' and 'escape' like on the party scene or whatever then before they know it, they need it to function. It's sad.
There are many causes for pain in my exes life, not that I'm making excuses for him.. you'd think after the way he's been treated in his life, he'd never want to inflict pain on any person but that's obviously not the case.
I knew he used, but stupidly believed him when he said he was, 'just tired' or he, 'had it under control..' I've been stupid. I know that now.
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Old 12-06-2017, 06:19 AM
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Ophelia makes a good point.
We never really know the addict’s true self.
Because they are addicts.
Sounds circular, I know.
but I think it’s true, and Ophelia says it well, far better than I can.
Give it time, Sarah.
Time and distance will bring clarity.
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Old 12-06-2017, 06:26 AM
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He's cold, cruel, mean and downright nasty to me.
You mean prior to the breakup or after?
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Old 12-06-2017, 06:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Maudcat View Post
Ophelia makes a good point.
We never really know the addict’s true self.
Because they are addicts.
Sounds circular, I know.
but I think it’s true, and Ophelia says it well, far better than I can.
Give it time, Sarah.
Time and distance will bring clarity.
Amazes me how I knew he used yet didn't see it as an addiction for so long. Or, maybe I knew but didn't want to admit it to myself.
Thank you.
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Old 12-06-2017, 06:31 AM
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Originally Posted by atalose View Post
You mean prior to the breakup or after?
He had his moments whilst we were together but now it's off the scale. I feel his addiction has hit a certain point where he just feels it's easier to be with another user, someone who will make it easier for him to use and he won't have to hide it to the scale he did with me. Being cruel to me, ignoring me, telling me he loves me then going cold etc.. it's just hit a point where I feel I don't know him. Perhaps never did. Maybe these are just his true colours. He's hit the party scene again with old 'friends' and refuses to see it for what it is.
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Old 12-06-2017, 07:02 AM
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I often see the coldness, cruelness and ignoring behavior get worse when someone has ended a relationship and moved on and the other person is still trying to hang on, still wanting to be friends still wanting to remain a part of that person’s life. Break ups are hard and painful but as we always say around here it’s their actions not their words. He has ended the relationship he has moved on to someone else and that is very hurtful and hard to accept. And if you continue to try and be a part of what he’s already let go of, of course it might fuel anger on his part.

He cannot be nasty to you if you do not let him. No contact = no new hurts!
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Old 12-06-2017, 08:55 AM
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Originally Posted by atalose View Post
I often see the coldness, cruelness and ignoring behavior get worse when someone has ended a relationship and moved on and the other person is still trying to hang on, still wanting to be friends still wanting to remain a part of that person’s life. Break ups are hard and painful but as we always say around here it’s their actions not their words. He has ended the relationship he has moved on to someone else and that is very hurtful and hard to accept. And if you continue to try and be a part of what he’s already let go of, of course it might fuel anger on his part.

He cannot be nasty to you if you do not let him. No contact = no new hurts!
That's why I've not contacted him
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Old 12-06-2017, 08:57 AM
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[QUOTE=Sarah84;6698432]That's why I've not contacted him but its not that he's moved on as such, only a few days ago he was trying to get back with me! So it's not me trying to hang on, he was saying he wanted me lol. I'm not some deluded idiot [
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Old 12-06-2017, 09:01 AM
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Originally Posted by atalose View Post
I often see the coldness, cruelness and ignoring behavior get worse when someone has ended a relationship and moved on and the other person is still trying to hang on, still wanting to be friends still wanting to remain a part of that person’s life. Break ups are hard and painful but as we always say around here it’s their actions not their words. He has ended the relationship he has moved on to someone else and that is very hurtful and hard to accept. And if you continue to try and be a part of what he’s already let go of, of course it might fuel anger on his part.

He cannot be nasty to you if you do not let him. No contact = no new hurts!
It's not as if I'm chasing him desperate for him back, only a few days ago he was telling me he loves me and wanted to get back together! Since then he has been cold which is why I've walked away. So your post just doesn't represent what I've been through recently. I'm not the one hanging on, he was until he went cold. He's with her cause they use together I know that.
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Old 12-06-2017, 09:43 AM
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I just want to make clear that I'm not desperately hanging on like a weirdo. He said he wanted to get back together last week. He was all over me, calling and chatting etc, Then he went cold and I know why. I've since stopped contact and walked away.
What baffled me was the hot and cold but since being here, I've learnt a lot about addiction and why an addict would choose a user over a non user despite all rationale. I am not hanging on lol.
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Old 12-06-2017, 11:24 AM
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I certainly did not mean to imply that you were a deluded idiot and I am sorry if you took it that way. Read lots of the posts here and you will discover many people hang onto bad and toxic relationships accepting unacceptable behavior all in the name of “love”.

Addicts say many things when they are high but it is in their actions that speak volumes.

I think the only healthy decision you can make is no contact.
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Old 12-06-2017, 11:44 AM
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Sarah,

You're not stupid, so let's get that straight.

You've been in love with an addict and their addiction ends up taking first place in their life; not you. That produces confusion and questioning everything you do with regards to him. One minute they are like, "I love you and appreciate you so much" to ... nothing and you feel ignored, which you ARE ignored. This is the dance of dealing with addicts. It all depends on if they are high and feeling good to low and needing the next hit or fix. So when people say it's a rollercoaster that's a good way to describe it. Or, a yoyo....up and down. Up and down.

Sure, he's going to feel more "comfortable" with another user or someone who has no issues with his drug use. That's the "easy" direction...he doesn't have to face his issues around her; his conscience isn't uncomfortable. This in no way detracts from YOUR worth. This is really about his addiction, not you....I hope you come to believe that if you don't already.

I wouldn't say you're "hanging on" as much as you are just trying to sort out the feelings you still have. The breakup is still fresh and it takes time to get over it. I think it's natural to question yourself.

At this time I hope you put yourself FIRST right now, focus on yourself and be extra extra good to YOU...and try to maintain no contact. Because from what I've gathered every time he contacts you it stirs up things that are maybe left alone.
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Old 12-06-2017, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by atalose View Post
I certainly did not mean to imply that you were a deluded idiot and I am sorry if you took it that way. Read lots of the posts here and you will discover many people hang onto bad and toxic relationships accepting unacceptable behavior all in the name of “love”.

Addicts say many things when they are high but it is in their actions that speak volumes.

I think the only healthy decision you can make is no contact.
Thanks. Sorry I'm a bit defensive, it's been a rocky few months. It's been horrendous in fact. Thank you for taking the time to reply. :-)
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Old 12-06-2017, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by teatreeoil007 View Post
Sarah,

You're not stupid, so let's get that straight.

You've been in love with an addict and their addiction ends up taking first place in their life; not you. That produces confusion and questioning everything you do with regards to him. One minute they are like, "I love you and appreciate you so much" to ... nothing and you feel ignored, which you ARE ignored. This is the dance of dealing with addicts. It all depends on if they are high and feeling good to low and needing the next hit or fix. So when people say it's a rollercoaster that's a good way to describe it. Or, a yoyo....up and down. Up and down.

Sure, he's going to feel more "comfortable" with another user or someone who has no issues with his drug use. That's the "easy" direction...he doesn't have to face his issues around her; his conscience isn't uncomfortable. This in no way detracts from YOUR worth. This is really about his addiction, not you....I hope you come to believe that if you don't already.

I wouldn't say you're "hanging on" as much as you are just trying to sort out the feelings you still have. The breakup is still fresh and it takes time to get over it. I think it's natural to question yourself.

At this time I hope you put yourself FIRST right now, focus on yourself and be extra extra good to YOU...and try to maintain no contact. Because from what I've gathered every time he contacts you it stirs up things that are maybe left alone.
It's so refreshing to hear that ignorimg behaviour is the trait of an addict. For years, I honestly thought it was me and I was going mad! I made so many excuses for him.
I'm definitely no contact now. That's it. I know the reasons he's with her are nothing to do with me. She's a coke user, he's a coke user, I'm not a coke user, simple as that. No way will I stumble on my morals to become, 'one of the crowd'. His friends never did like me. I suppose I was always an outsider, a threat, and my ex would do anything to show me in poor light, even his family didn't like me despite me only ever loving him and supporting him through so much grief and stress!! Always the victim aren't they?! Never stop to think of the heartache they cause the very people who would walk through fire for them. Never again.
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Old 12-06-2017, 02:14 PM
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(Sorry, long reply)

Yeah the thing is, some people don't really care about other people, they just care about themselves. It's shocking that with my ex, he choose a career path that might make it seem like he's caring (I mean, his goal was to become a religious leader... so you would think..., but no, he was doing this because he said he wanted "followers"). This is my personal opinion, but there are a lot of sickos in the world out there and if you look at any helping profession -- psychologist, priest, surgeon... etc -- there will be a decent percent of those people that really are in it because they care, and a decent percent are going to be mentally ill, pedophiles, and sadists who like cutting people up with scalpels; the job is just a cover-up. Sure, these people have legitimate reasons for being "sick", but they also have a legitimate reasons for not treating others badly, the first reason being, it's WRONG. But then these people tend to think, "it's wrong, except for me because I'm an exception." The addict in my life thought, lying is wrong, except for me because I need to lie to use my drugs." You might wonder where he got this sort of thinking, well, let's just say, his parents used to sneakily prune all the good flowers off their neighbor's bushes simply because they wanted those particular flowers in their vase at home. I'm not making excuses for him, I'm condemning his whole family here. I am sure there are good things about them, but there are also bad things.

Now, as for the "stupid" part. You aren't stupid as you clearly are not with this guy anymore. Even if you were, some people find it very hard to leave because 1) like I said, there are good things about everyone. Heck even Hitler was "good" in some ways. I mean, he really had a skill when it came to mobilizing the youth, so that's "good". And what about Stalin, that's some impressive mustache. See? All good. 2) Some people have children, pets, houses with their addicts -- don't underestimate how difficult it is to say "no" to a dog/child/mortgage that's howling because it hasn't seen your drunken husband for three nights. 3) You might actually love your addict, because the addict was not always acting like an addict, and you're busy remembering the "good times" (see "Stalin's mustache" example). 4) Gaslighting. Meaning, the addict lies. And lies and lies and lies. All of the lies are just slightly implausible, but the act of lying over something as big as addiction is so shocking, that you think, no it can't be true. Because the fact is, the truth is very shocking, very upsetting. The fact that he may have stole from you, tried to kill himself repeatedly, has a disease from which he might never return, uses words like "I love you" to manipulate you, are just so upsetting that you don't want to believe it even if the dime bag is right there on the table in front of you and he's telling you it's "herbal tea". Also the fact that the addict may show no guilt when lying. They could win a "Dishonesty Oscar". That is also very shocking. So you get what is called "cognitive dissonance". This is where your brain is faced with two completely contradictory pieces of information, so you try to rationalize the information (because that is what brains do), and as a result, you become confused and whatever your addict tells you beyond this point is easier to accept than trying to pick apart the web of lies.

So that is why you were in your situation. Not stupidity.

You were also chosen by the addict because you were 1) empathetic, 2) had poor boundaries -- this could happen if your family of origin treats you like you're unimportant and you're always trying to make them happy because their love is conditional upon you making them happy... because they are, or some of them are, narcissists. So your relationship with someone whose issues mattered more than their relationship with you is just you unconsciously continuing the abuse, 3) other reasons... too many to get into. In any case, we all need a shrink. A good one. Not one that has mental issues. Or go to Alanon/Naranon for group help.

Originally Posted by Sarah84 View Post
There are many causes for pain in my exes life, not that I'm making excuses for him.. you'd think after the way he's been treated in his life, he'd never want to inflict pain on any person but that's obviously not the case.
I knew he used, but stupidly believed him when he said he was, 'just tired' or he, 'had it under control..' I've been stupid. I know that now.
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Old 12-06-2017, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by OpheliaKatz View Post
(Sorry, long reply)

Yeah the thing is, some people don't really care about other people, they just care about themselves. It's shocking that with my ex, he choose a career path that might make it seem like he's caring (I mean, his goal was to become a religious leader... so you would think..., but no, he was doing this because he said he wanted "followers"). This is my personal opinion, but there are a lot of sickos in the world out there and if you look at any helping profession -- psychologist, priest, surgeon... etc -- there will be a decent percent of those people that really are in it because they care, and a decent percent are going to be mentally ill, pedophiles, and sadists who like cutting people up with scalpels; the job is just a cover-up. Sure, these people have legitimate reasons for being "sick", but they also have a legitimate reasons for not treating others badly, the first reason being, it's WRONG. But then these people tend to think, "it's wrong, except for me because I'm an exception." The addict in my life thought, lying is wrong, except for me because I need to lie to use my drugs." You might wonder where he got this sort of thinking, well, let's just say, his parents used to sneakily prune all the good flowers off their neighbor's bushes simply because they wanted those particular flowers in their vase at home. I'm not making excuses for him, I'm condemning his whole family here. I am sure there are good things about them, but there are also bad things.

Now, as for the "stupid" part. You aren't stupid as you clearly are not with this guy anymore. Even if you were, some people find it very hard to leave because 1) like I said, there are good things about everyone. Heck even Hitler was "good" in some ways. I mean, he really had a skill when it came to mobilizing the youth, so that's "good". And what about Stalin, that's some impressive mustache. See? All good. 2) Some people have children, pets, houses with their addicts -- don't underestimate how difficult it is to say "no" to a dog/child/mortgage that's howling because it hasn't seen your drunken husband for three nights. 3) You might actually love your addict, because the addict was not always acting like an addict, and you're busy remembering the "good times" (see "Stalin's mustache" example). 4) Gaslighting. Meaning, the addict lies. And lies and lies and lies. All of the lies are just slightly implausible, but the act of lying over something as big as addiction is so shocking, that you think, no it can't be true. Because the fact is, the truth is very shocking, very upsetting. The fact that he may have stole from you, tried to kill himself repeatedly, has a disease from which he might never return, uses words like "I love you" to manipulate you, are just so upsetting that you don't want to believe it even if the dime bag is right there on the table in front of you and he's telling you it's "herbal tea". Also the fact that the addict may show no guilt when lying. They could win a "Dishonesty Oscar". That is also very shocking. So you get what is called "cognitive dissonance". This is where your brain is faced with two completely contradictory pieces of information, so you try to rationalize the information (because that is what brains do), and as a result, you become confused and whatever your addict tells you beyond this point is easier to accept than trying to pick apart the web of lies.

So that is why you were in your situation. Not stupidity.

You were also chosen by the addict because you were 1) empathetic, 2) had poor boundaries -- this could happen if your family of origin treats you like you're unimportant and you're always trying to make them happy because their love is conditional upon you making them happy... because they are, or some of them are, narcissists. So your relationship with someone whose issues mattered more than their relationship with you is just you unconsciously continuing the abuse, 3) other reasons... too many to get into. In any case, we all need a shrink. A good one. Not one that has mental issues. Or go to Alanon/Naranon for group help.
Wow. Thank you. Think you've just nailed it. Every word was spot on. What a way of looking at things.
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