Damage done to his daughter and tough convo with his ex
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Damage done to his daughter and tough convo with his ex
Ugh. I talked to AH's ex-wife for about 2 hours last night on the phone. He had left his 15-year-old daughter two voicemails and a text message saying he loved and missed her and told me that he was disappointed that he hadn't heard back. Given his self-involved behavior the last weekend she was with us before rehab, I checked in with her to see how she was doing. I figured if she had ignored him that was fair. She said she had responded to his text and hadn't realized she had voicemails. I wished I hadn't said anything when she told me that. She said she felt awful about it and I told her that was silly, her dad is in rehab. His fault that communication is challenging right now. It's not her responsibility to sit by her phone and she needed to worry about her life right now and have fun. Apparently, her mom found her crying and feeling guilty that she hadn't answered the phone when he called because she didn't know who was calling from a TX number. Oh, that makes me mad. If that isn't a codependent in the making, I don't know what is.
His voicemails were telling her how he missed her and bragging about not having had a cigarette in 10 days. One, it's not her job to be proud of him for anything and two, smoking cigarettes is not exactly why he's in rehab, lol.
Her mom thinks that him contacting their daughter right now is unhealthy for her and wants me to tell him to stop. I have no idea how to tell him that. He wouldn't be able to wrap his mind around such a concept as how this is damaging his child right now. He had told me he was thinking about her and crying about how he needed to be a better father. She says he always did that in rehab. Maybe I'll email his therapist and ask for advice on this one.
That convo with his ex was hard. I still think she's kind of a dysfunctional mess, mind you, but a lot of my opinions about her changed. Hearing only his and his family's side of things didn't give me a clear picture. It seems like every single thing that he has said and done is the same crap he said and did with her. Their relationship before crack sounds so much like his and mine. His behavior seems so similar. His words so similar. Don't get me wrong, I've been in love before too and I'm sure I've said a lot of the same words to past men as I've said to him. You just aren't supposed to know that about the one you currently love...takes away the specialness of it. Realizing how not special this is is important for me, though. That's the main reason I let her talk and listened. I need any lingering terminal uniqueness ideas bashed out of my head.
Hearing how his stints in rehab back in their time are so similar to stuff he says now was the hardest thing. I know the odds aren't good with a drug like crack, but some of the things he said gave me a little hope that maybe now that he's older and has been through this before, he had a better chance. Sounds like he always said this stuff. She always fell for it. He would always be off crack for a period of time. A whole year, once. The only thing he never did was stop drinking. He told me he had stopped drinking for a year when he quit for good, but she shot that down as a lie. She shot down his supposedly 3 years clean from crack before I met him down as a lie too. More like 2. He added a year. I wonder how many lies there have been?
I am so angry with myself. How did I let me get into this situation?!? I have kids! It was one thing for me to take a gamble on a recovering crack addict, but do I have that right when I have kids?? I didn't know enough to make an informed decision and that's my fault for not seeking an education on this. I should have been here in 2012. Would I have even listened or would I at least have known what particular red flags to look out for with addiction? Good lord, do I as a mom even have a right to try and work this out if he stays clean knowing what the risks are? I don't know.
She told me exactly what to expect when he gets back. I'll bet you she called it all correctly, too. She says he can still have his daughter for visitation as long as I'm there, but if I leave him they're going back to court. That's a fairly safe bet considering if he relapses after rehab I'm not gonna be here anyway. On the off chance I'm packing on that particular weekend, she will be told that he's back in active addiction and I presume his daughter will be spared visitation.
His voicemails were telling her how he missed her and bragging about not having had a cigarette in 10 days. One, it's not her job to be proud of him for anything and two, smoking cigarettes is not exactly why he's in rehab, lol.
Her mom thinks that him contacting their daughter right now is unhealthy for her and wants me to tell him to stop. I have no idea how to tell him that. He wouldn't be able to wrap his mind around such a concept as how this is damaging his child right now. He had told me he was thinking about her and crying about how he needed to be a better father. She says he always did that in rehab. Maybe I'll email his therapist and ask for advice on this one.
That convo with his ex was hard. I still think she's kind of a dysfunctional mess, mind you, but a lot of my opinions about her changed. Hearing only his and his family's side of things didn't give me a clear picture. It seems like every single thing that he has said and done is the same crap he said and did with her. Their relationship before crack sounds so much like his and mine. His behavior seems so similar. His words so similar. Don't get me wrong, I've been in love before too and I'm sure I've said a lot of the same words to past men as I've said to him. You just aren't supposed to know that about the one you currently love...takes away the specialness of it. Realizing how not special this is is important for me, though. That's the main reason I let her talk and listened. I need any lingering terminal uniqueness ideas bashed out of my head.
Hearing how his stints in rehab back in their time are so similar to stuff he says now was the hardest thing. I know the odds aren't good with a drug like crack, but some of the things he said gave me a little hope that maybe now that he's older and has been through this before, he had a better chance. Sounds like he always said this stuff. She always fell for it. He would always be off crack for a period of time. A whole year, once. The only thing he never did was stop drinking. He told me he had stopped drinking for a year when he quit for good, but she shot that down as a lie. She shot down his supposedly 3 years clean from crack before I met him down as a lie too. More like 2. He added a year. I wonder how many lies there have been?
I am so angry with myself. How did I let me get into this situation?!? I have kids! It was one thing for me to take a gamble on a recovering crack addict, but do I have that right when I have kids?? I didn't know enough to make an informed decision and that's my fault for not seeking an education on this. I should have been here in 2012. Would I have even listened or would I at least have known what particular red flags to look out for with addiction? Good lord, do I as a mom even have a right to try and work this out if he stays clean knowing what the risks are? I don't know.
She told me exactly what to expect when he gets back. I'll bet you she called it all correctly, too. She says he can still have his daughter for visitation as long as I'm there, but if I leave him they're going back to court. That's a fairly safe bet considering if he relapses after rehab I'm not gonna be here anyway. On the off chance I'm packing on that particular weekend, she will be told that he's back in active addiction and I presume his daughter will be spared visitation.
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New boundary as a result of that conversation:
I will not live with an active addict and alcohol is a drug.
Drinking alcohol is not generally a deal-breaker for me as I like beer too. However, I think it's a safe one in this situation. Me drinking a beer is not the same as an alcoholic drinking a beer. That's just reality.
I will not live with an active addict and alcohol is a drug.
Drinking alcohol is not generally a deal-breaker for me as I like beer too. However, I think it's a safe one in this situation. Me drinking a beer is not the same as an alcoholic drinking a beer. That's just reality.
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He had told me he was thinking about her and crying about how he needed to be a better father. She says he always did that in rehab
ouch. bazinga. is it weird to have a sense of deja vu even tho YOU haven't been on this ride before?
that's a lot to take in. i can tell you MY impression and thoughts, but that isn't what matters here. i would give this a LOT of thought tho. i wouldn't race to call his therapist about contacting his daughter just yet. you aren't the cell phone police.
lies lies and damn lies. sigh.
ouch. bazinga. is it weird to have a sense of deja vu even tho YOU haven't been on this ride before?
that's a lot to take in. i can tell you MY impression and thoughts, but that isn't what matters here. i would give this a LOT of thought tho. i wouldn't race to call his therapist about contacting his daughter just yet. you aren't the cell phone police.
lies lies and damn lies. sigh.
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Seriously weird, yeah. Just reading the hundreds of threads on here that I have is also like a weird deja vu. I haven't yet contacted his therapist about it. It just doesn't feel like my place to get in between he and his daughter and ex-wife, no matter what my opinions are about it.
Hey, share your thoughts at will. They're as or more likely to be right as mine, and I've been living this, lol. At this point, I'm re-evaluating every single thing I took for granted for the past 5 years. It's all just depressing. I'm starting to wonder if I've been with a grown man or with a teenager playacting the role of a grown man. All that sweet boyish charm is just immaturity. I feel like I was asleep for 5 years and just recently woke up.
Hey, share your thoughts at will. They're as or more likely to be right as mine, and I've been living this, lol. At this point, I'm re-evaluating every single thing I took for granted for the past 5 years. It's all just depressing. I'm starting to wonder if I've been with a grown man or with a teenager playacting the role of a grown man. All that sweet boyish charm is just immaturity. I feel like I was asleep for 5 years and just recently woke up.
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With your husband being in rehab -- try to keep your cool. All you can do is take care of yourself and pray for the best for him. If he keeps doing the right things -- things might work out for you all. Sorry to say, it's a rough road for most.
No harm in letting him know -- this sobriety thing is Very Serious.
M-Bob
No harm in letting him know -- this sobriety thing is Very Serious.
M-Bob
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Well, if nothing else, the convo with ex enlarges your understanding about things, yes?
A lot to take in, no question.
But..I bet that after you have had some time to process everything she told you, you will find yourself nodding and saying, yep, that explains it.
Better to have the information than not, I think.
Good luck, Dee. Here when you need us.
A lot to take in, no question.
But..I bet that after you have had some time to process everything she told you, you will find yourself nodding and saying, yep, that explains it.
Better to have the information than not, I think.
Good luck, Dee. Here when you need us.
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Deelilah,
Don't beat yourself up too bad. There's a saying "when we know better, we do better." I do agree that as a mother, you have to be more cautious but you can't turn back the clock now. Believe me, I would have found a way to do it if that was possible!
You continue to impress me with your willingness to hear and see what others are saying and jumping in to learn all you can about addiction. It's so much easier to stick your head in the sand. I think by continuing to learn and to seek your own recovery, you and your kids will be just fine. You will know what your path should be.
Jaeger
Don't beat yourself up too bad. There's a saying "when we know better, we do better." I do agree that as a mother, you have to be more cautious but you can't turn back the clock now. Believe me, I would have found a way to do it if that was possible!
You continue to impress me with your willingness to hear and see what others are saying and jumping in to learn all you can about addiction. It's so much easier to stick your head in the sand. I think by continuing to learn and to seek your own recovery, you and your kids will be just fine. You will know what your path should be.
Jaeger
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Originally Posted by Mountainmanbob 
With your husband being in rehab -- try to keep your cool. All you can do is take care of yourself and pray for the best for him. If he keeps doing the right things -- things might work out for you all. Sorry to say, it's a rough road for most.
No harm in letting him know -- this sobriety thing is Very Serious.
M-Bob
No harm in letting him know -- this sobriety thing is Very Serious.
M-Bob
If he actually takes sobriety seriously and continues to do so, that would be cool. You're right, I'm freaking out about stuff that I can't control and not keeping my cool right now.
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Originally Posted by Maudcat
Well, if nothing else, the convo with ex enlarges your understanding about things, yes?
A lot to take in, no question.
But..I bet that after you have had some time to process everything she told you, you will find yourself nodding and saying, yep, that explains it.
Better to have the information than not, I think.
Good luck, Dee. Here when you need us.
A lot to take in, no question.
But..I bet that after you have had some time to process everything she told you, you will find yourself nodding and saying, yep, that explains it.
Better to have the information than not, I think.
Good luck, Dee. Here when you need us.
Thank you!
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Originally Posted by Jaeger
Deelilah,
Don't beat yourself up too bad. There's a saying "when we know better, we do better." I do agree that as a mother, you have to be more cautious but you can't turn back the clock now. Believe me, I would have found a way to do it if that was possible!
You continue to impress me with your willingness to hear and see what others are saying and jumping in to learn all you can about addiction. It's so much easier to stick your head in the sand. I think by continuing to learn and to seek your own recovery, you and your kids will be just fine. You will know what your path should be.
Jaeger
Don't beat yourself up too bad. There's a saying "when we know better, we do better." I do agree that as a mother, you have to be more cautious but you can't turn back the clock now. Believe me, I would have found a way to do it if that was possible!
You continue to impress me with your willingness to hear and see what others are saying and jumping in to learn all you can about addiction. It's so much easier to stick your head in the sand. I think by continuing to learn and to seek your own recovery, you and your kids will be just fine. You will know what your path should be.
Jaeger
All of you know more than I do because you've lived it. Many of you have been on both sides, many have been on my side and come through. I respect your wisdom and learn from it.
Plus...almost nothing in the world irks me like being made a fool of. If I learn nothing and just let addiction be in control, I'll feel like I was made a fool of. I already feel that way and I don't want that to continue. I want my eyes wide open this next go-round, be it recovery or not. If I have illusions, I want them busted wide open. If I'm ignorant, I want a light shone upon it. That's how I'll survive.
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Something I learned the hard way and witnessed first hand…………..history doesn’t repeat itself – people repeat history.
When I met my ex he was very much into his recovery, had been clean/sober 4 years and I saw him as the most admirably honest giving man I had ever met. In the course of our relationship he told me stories of his past which included dating and restraining orders when he was drinking/using. Our relationship had been the longest one he’d ever been in because he said he wasn’t drinking or using to screw it all up.
Our relationship ended with a restraining order!...........people repeat history.
I agree, think long and hard about all of this, his history is longer and stronger then the few years you have been together.
And as for him and his daughter I would stay the heck out of it. You’ll become that bridge between him and her…….you know the one, the bridge that gets burned!!!
When I met my ex he was very much into his recovery, had been clean/sober 4 years and I saw him as the most admirably honest giving man I had ever met. In the course of our relationship he told me stories of his past which included dating and restraining orders when he was drinking/using. Our relationship had been the longest one he’d ever been in because he said he wasn’t drinking or using to screw it all up.
Our relationship ended with a restraining order!...........people repeat history.
I agree, think long and hard about all of this, his history is longer and stronger then the few years you have been together.
And as for him and his daughter I would stay the heck out of it. You’ll become that bridge between him and her…….you know the one, the bridge that gets burned!!!
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Originally Posted by atalose
Something I learned the hard way and witnessed first hand…………..history doesn’t repeat itself – people repeat history.
When I met my ex he was very much into his recovery, had been clean/sober 4 years and I saw him as the most admirably honest giving man I had ever met. In the course of our relationship he told me stories of his past which included dating and restraining orders when he was drinking/using. Our relationship had been the longest one he’d ever been in because he said he wasn’t drinking or using to screw it all up.
Our relationship ended with a restraining order!...........people repeat history.
I agree, think long and hard about all of this, his history is longer and stronger then the few years you have been together.
And as for him and his daughter I would stay the heck out of it. You’ll become that bridge between him and her…….you know the one, the bridge that gets burned!!!
When I met my ex he was very much into his recovery, had been clean/sober 4 years and I saw him as the most admirably honest giving man I had ever met. In the course of our relationship he told me stories of his past which included dating and restraining orders when he was drinking/using. Our relationship had been the longest one he’d ever been in because he said he wasn’t drinking or using to screw it all up.
Our relationship ended with a restraining order!...........people repeat history.
I agree, think long and hard about all of this, his history is longer and stronger then the few years you have been together.
And as for him and his daughter I would stay the heck out of it. You’ll become that bridge between him and her…….you know the one, the bridge that gets burned!!!
It's tough with his daughter...I've known her from the ages of 10 - 15 and I love that girl. I have to keep reminding myself that I have no legal rights to this kid. No matter how upset I feel when I see her pain, she's not mine. I can't really help her. I'm not responsible for her relationship with her dad. I've always done too much in that area when it comes to her. He got her every other week for a while and I spent more time with her than he did. I talk to her more. I've picked up his slack when it came to her. I've often thought it was like she got visitation with me instead of him. How do I keep from being that bridge? I don't want to be yet another person in her life that somehow makes things worse for her. It ain't fair.
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So I want all the information and knowledge that I can gather to help me deal with all of this and understand it the best that I can.
well, how about review the information you already have.
1). he was NOT in recovery for the length of time he stated.
2). he may have not been using crack, but he continued to drink and smoke pot the entire time, which negates any true recovery.
3). he KNEW that.
4). this is now a known PATTERN of behavior for him, as both his ex wife and daughter have seen it and lived it.
5). he has been to rehab multiple times.
6). he is using his daughter for his own emotional needs, not considering at all what SHE might be going thru.
7). he has lied to your face for years.
so what was missing:
Honesty
Integrity
Maturity
Transparency
if we keep doing what we've always done, we'll keep getting what we've always got.
well, how about review the information you already have.
1). he was NOT in recovery for the length of time he stated.
2). he may have not been using crack, but he continued to drink and smoke pot the entire time, which negates any true recovery.
3). he KNEW that.
4). this is now a known PATTERN of behavior for him, as both his ex wife and daughter have seen it and lived it.
5). he has been to rehab multiple times.
6). he is using his daughter for his own emotional needs, not considering at all what SHE might be going thru.
7). he has lied to your face for years.
so what was missing:
Honesty
Integrity
Maturity
Transparency
if we keep doing what we've always done, we'll keep getting what we've always got.
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Originally Posted by AnvilheadII
So I want all the information and knowledge that I can gather to help me deal with all of this and understand it the best that I can.
well, how about review the information you already have.
1). he was NOT in recovery for the length of time he stated.
2). he may have not been using crack, but he continued to drink and smoke pot the entire time, which negates any true recovery.
3). he KNEW that.
4). this is now a known PATTERN of behavior for him, as both his ex wife and daughter have seen it and lived it.
5). he has been to rehab multiple times.
6). he is using his daughter for his own emotional needs, not considering at all what SHE might be going thru.
7). he has lied to your face for years.
so what was missing:
Honesty
Integrity
Maturity
Transparency
if we keep doing what we've always done, we'll keep getting what we've always got.
well, how about review the information you already have.
1). he was NOT in recovery for the length of time he stated.
2). he may have not been using crack, but he continued to drink and smoke pot the entire time, which negates any true recovery.
3). he KNEW that.
4). this is now a known PATTERN of behavior for him, as both his ex wife and daughter have seen it and lived it.
5). he has been to rehab multiple times.
6). he is using his daughter for his own emotional needs, not considering at all what SHE might be going thru.
7). he has lied to your face for years.
so what was missing:
Honesty
Integrity
Maturity
Transparency
if we keep doing what we've always done, we'll keep getting what we've always got.
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Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 80
Deelilah
You have some great responses here. Im learning a great deal as well.
Your doing great learning and processing this early on.
I have been learning the hard way a long time.
I'm happy to see that you are reaching for as much info as you can.
Take care
TD
You have some great responses here. Im learning a great deal as well.
Your doing great learning and processing this early on.
I have been learning the hard way a long time.
I'm happy to see that you are reaching for as much info as you can.
Take care
TD
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Originally Posted by TiredDad
Deelilah
You have some great responses here. Im learning a great deal as well.
Your doing great learning and processing this early on.
I have been learning the hard way a long time.
I'm happy to see that you are reaching for as much info as you can.
Take care
TD
You have some great responses here. Im learning a great deal as well.
Your doing great learning and processing this early on.
I have been learning the hard way a long time.
I'm happy to see that you are reaching for as much info as you can.
Take care
TD
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Originally Posted by Deelilah
You're here now, that's what counts! I'm a scaredy-cat, lol. I got a mere taste of what you've survived and I know that I can't handle it. You're probably a lot stronger than I am.
I wanted to believe those sweet words. I wanted to believe what my heart wanted.
Now that the blinders are coming off. I can see I wasn't making intelligent decisions.
Would I go into a meeting not knowing the details and being ready for issues if there were any.
NOPE..
I learned a long time ago. You don't go in blind. You gather as much info about what ever your battle is so your not blind sided if possible.
Did I apply that to my personal relationship especially once I knew addiction was an issue.
Nope on that one too. .
I am learning now. I have learned more in the past 6 to 8 months than I did the last 6 to 8 years. She still tries to manipulate my feelings on occasion. Yesterday in fact. I chose not to engage.
Better for me that way.
Take care and keep learning. .
TD
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Originally Posted by TiredDad
Would I go into a meeting not knowing the details and being ready for issues if there were any.
NOPE..
I learned a long time ago. You don't go in blind. You gather as much info about what ever your battle is so your not blind sided if possible.
NOPE..
I learned a long time ago. You don't go in blind. You gather as much info about what ever your battle is so your not blind sided if possible.
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Even in rehab he is manipulating his daughter, his ex wife and you..by his texts or calls and when one shuts him out, he turns to another to pass on HIS message because it is more important than THEIR peace of mind. I may have my threads mixed up but didn't he have one of his counselors also pass on a message of sorts or make a request on his behalf?
The only way to stop this...is to stop this. No second hand news, no conveying messages, and quite frankly, since he is not showing respect to any of you, I'd call a "time out" and go no contact for a while.
This^^^. Regardless of your choice to stay or leave or wait until you decide...it's time to take back your own life, your own mind and thoughts and live your life as if you owned it, because you do.
Hugs
The only way to stop this...is to stop this. No second hand news, no conveying messages, and quite frankly, since he is not showing respect to any of you, I'd call a "time out" and go no contact for a while.
Originally Posted by AnvilheadII
if we keep doing what we've always done, we'll keep getting what we've always got.
Hugs
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Originally Posted by Ann
Even in rehab he is manipulating his daughter, his ex wife and you..by his texts or calls and when one shuts him out, he turns to another to pass on HIS message because it is more important than THEIR peace of mind. I may have my threads mixed up but didn't he have one of his counselors also pass on a message of sorts or make a request on his behalf?
The only way to stop this...is to stop this. No second hand news, no conveying messages, and quite frankly, since he is not showing respect to any of you, I'd call a "time out" and go no contact for a while.
This^^^. Regardless of your choice to stay or leave or wait until you decide...it's time to take back your own life, your own mind and thoughts and live your life as if you owned it, because you do.
Hugs
The only way to stop this...is to stop this. No second hand news, no conveying messages, and quite frankly, since he is not showing respect to any of you, I'd call a "time out" and go no contact for a while.
This^^^. Regardless of your choice to stay or leave or wait until you decide...it's time to take back your own life, your own mind and thoughts and live your life as if you owned it, because you do.
Hugs
I'm waiting for the moment. Kind of want to see how things are when he comes back. Watch some actions and save up more money. I could split now, but it would be better if I had more money first. If he comes out and uses again, I just leave with what I've gotten together so far. I've been doing an awful lot of thinking and Naranon meetings. If by some miracle he comes out and continues working on himself and heals some of his crap, we'll see. I'm not sure if I want to risk this happening again. I'm not sure if we have a chance with me knowing that he has this self-destruct button in him. Everything has changed. I don't know what it is about marriage, but if he and I were just dating, I'd be done.
But yes, regardless of his drama, I have been living my life like I own it. I do what I want and enjoy it. I have plans with friends and just with myself this weekend and I'm going to enjoy that too. This reprieve has been a blessing to me. I lost myself in February and I've got me back in May. I'm not losing myself again. No one is worth that price.
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