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Old 03-13-2017, 04:16 PM   #21 (permalink)
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I get that. The good times and then there is a tilt to the bad but it sneaks up on you. Happened to me to with my husband when he was using and drinking. He became abusive to me and still I stayed for too long. And now he is in therapy and not abusive and seems changed, but is it still logical to stay? I understand these are not easy choices, and its sometimes a slow progression.

I can see adoption as being a link for you too, at least somewhat. Im sure she does have good qualities too, and its like a push and pull for all of us.

Good luck to you.
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Old 03-13-2017, 06:34 PM   #22 (permalink)
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I read this thread the best I could through all the twists, turns, events, etc. It is a bit hard to follow and confusing.

OP: I say this very gently. I think you are deeply conflicted in your feelings with this woman. You contradicted yourself a few times in your posts; stating you were just friends and just wanted to help her out and have helped her out and care for her, etc. (rescue her perhaps?),.... you want see her be well. But you also have said you were in love with her and were thinking with your nether parts.

I think you actually fell in love with her, but you felt ashamed of it, so you developed a pattern of being in fierce denial about how you really felt.... she represents everything that you also feel is a big huge "no no". Forbidden fruit. So, it pains you to have fallen in love with someone of her caliber (a prostitute addict). Someone who was lost and on a destructive path. But the fact remains, you did fall in love with her and your postings and actions surrounding her almost sound obsessive. Her "ex" strikes me as being obsessed with her as well and also controlling.

Anyways, I'm not here to judge anyone for who they might fall for or what they did. What's done is done. That happens. But, part of your continuing to be "involved" with her life was by your choice, I think also in attempts to rescue her and having some need to know about her and what she's up to if you could not find out directly from her. It's possible she did not answer your emails and texts because she felt conflicted too.



There is absolutely nothing wrong with helping others; nothing at all. But sometimes we get burned in the process. I speak from experience here... I know what it's like to help someone and then end up getting burned.

And, I know what it's like to trust someone; confide in someone; and then be betrayed.

I am so very sorry for how traumatic this has been for you ..... but there really and truly can be healing....

Perhaps you are the type of person who has intense emotions? When you "feel" something it's a great feeling. Passion might be the right word I'm thinking of. Sometimes those of us who are the most passionate take things harder.

My wish for you is that you can get over this whatever it was/is and be whole and happy. She's got waaaaay too many problems, you need to leave her in the past, friend. I'm not saying she is a bad person. But she's got major problems and it's scary.
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Old 03-13-2017, 09:48 PM   #23 (permalink)
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I think you actually fell in love with her, but you felt ashamed of it, so you developed a pattern of being in fierce denial about how you really felt.... she represents everything that you also feel is a big huge "no no". Forbidden fruit. So, it pains you to have fallen in love with someone of her caliber (a prostitute addict). Someone who was lost and on a destructive path. But the fact remains, you did fall in love with her and your postings and actions surrounding her almost sound obsessive. Her "ex" strikes me as being obsessed with her as well and also controlling.

Anyways, I'm not here to judge anyone for who they might fall for or what they did. What's done is done. That happens. But, part of your continuing to be "involved" with her life was by your choice, I think also in attempts to rescue her and having some need to know about her and what she's up to if you could not find out directly from her. It's possible she did not answer your emails and texts because she felt conflicted too.
You are right. I thought she was a bit of a mess when I met her but I liked her personality and once I got to know her, I developed a pretty serious crush on her. We had terrific chemistry, we were the same age and we both are natives of Phoenix. I knew a relationship beyond mere friendship was out of the question, I knew she was pretty damaged and I could never be in that kind of relationship with someone like that. Yet my feelings grew stronger and I realized that I was falling for her about four months prior to the escorting started. I knew she was struggling financially because she took two months off after the baby and missing that income was more or less the tipping point for her. It's when she first came to me for help and I could hear the desperation in her voice, as much as I didn't want to lend her money, I couldn't say no to her. And that continued to be the case for some time.

One night she texted me saying she needed to come up with some money to pay the rent and I was working late and a bit preoccupied. She mentioned turning to prostitution as a last resort but I didn't say anything but I did see her the following night and meant to ask her about it but forgot for some reason. I asked her about it after the fact and she said at the time she was only joking but I know that she was not. I feel guilty not asking her if she was serious, although I doubt I could have dissuaded her from exploring that option. She felt like she had no other options but I never believed that. She refused to find a real job, one that wouldn't put herself at risk or being killed or incarcerated. Of course, at the time I didn't know her drug problem was so severe so she likely wouldn't have passed a drug test.

Did she feel conflicted about me too? Perhaps. I brought that up with the counselor and she said not to believe anything my friend said, ever, because drug addicts will lie about everything to everyone because drugs are all that matter. That's another reason I stopped going - it was all black and white with the counselor, no middle ground. I know my friend lied a lot but I want to at least think she felt something toward me and saw me as more than a victim she could exploit. She said things many times to me things that made me think she had some feelings toward me. We always hugged goodbye and she always held me as tight as possible and said many times "I don't know what I'd do without you" and even kissed me once. She did tell me she loved me and was forever indebted to me for all the help I've given her. She also said she wants to get well and knows that she can't get that without professional help, that's why she finally agreed to go to treatment. There were times she had some mental clarity and could be quite eloquent and insightful. I want to believe she was sincere.

She also said though that she was still madly in love with her ex and hoped some day to be with him again, even though he said that would never happen as long as she was like this. But he is absolutely obsessed with her, and their relationship is extremely volatile. He was paying for her cell phone and I knew he read the texts and emails between us. I kind of understand why he did that but at the same time I felt a bit violated about that. She wasn't happy about that either but felt like it was the price she had to pay so he would continue to support her financially. He knows she's bad for him and said that getting involved in her mess goes against everything he believes in, but he'll never leave, not permanently anyway. He likes being a martyr.

Was I obsessed? Perhaps, bit I was very passionate about it all. But I felt a strong obligation to help her. She came to me for assistance and I gave it. At first I just hoped she'd get back on her feet and she'd be able to pay me back the money she owed me, but it later became a situation where I felt like she was going to die if I walked away. I don't think my conscience would let me do that. But seeing her escort ads with the photos and videos, and the reviews on TER (think Yelp for prostitutes) which were very explicit, it all hurt me greatly. When I asked her about why she kept doing it, she'd say, "How else am I supposed to make money?" I know she continued to escort up to about two weeks before she went into the hospital the first time.

I really don't want to go on and on about this. It would be great if I could go just one day where I don't think about her. I really do hope she can overcome her problems but I'm skeptical it will happen. Letting go is difficult, it's been the case in my past relationships as well.
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Old 03-13-2017, 10:38 PM   #24 (permalink)
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I really don't like black and white mentality either when it comes to relationship issues, psyche issues, addiction issues, etc. IMHO the better therapists and Dr.'s are open-minded. Some are not equipped with an open mind; maybe that is something that can be learned; I don't know. The older I get the less judgmental I am growing; the more I see and experience the more I realize that "Hey, that could happen to me. " Addiction doesn't discriminate. Falling in love does not discriminate. I want to be as wise as a serpent, but as harmless as a dove and that's a balancing act. The harmless as the dove part is where we help others and don't do anything to hurt someone else. The wise as the serpent part is to be able to do that and not get burned. Or to somehow get out of situations before we get burned. Sometimes we are just lucky. Sometimes we are unfortunate. When our feelings get wrapped up in something it is very hard to let go; to detach. I can understand how you could fall for her...it sounds as though she was attractive and perhaps there is just something about when a woman is earnestly desperate; not an act and not being manipulative but one that TRULY needs your help. That does appeal to men...some men can't resist it, I suppose. It does sound like she was in dire straits there. I just try to imagine what it must be like to give your baby up for adoption. I don't think I could do that! And if I did, it would rip my heart out. I would feel like dying.
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Old 03-14-2017, 08:21 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Yes, she was very attractive, at least when she was taking care of herself. In her mugshots she didn't look very good, just as you'd expect a drug addict who got arrested would look. I know she takes a lot of pride in her appearance and often sent me selfies but once you're in the grips of a serious drug addiction, your ability and desire to care about your appearance goes out the door.

Two things: First, I thought if I tried helping her out I could possibly stabilize her living situation, which I hoped would eliminate the desire to escort. But even when she was doing that she never made enough money to avoid being evicted. Second, if I could convince her to go to rehab things might start looking up for her. But she rarely wanted to talk about that particular topic. Perhaps she was embarrassed. She said I was being too judgmental, but considering the circumstances I think it was justified. She blew off five court appearances, didn't comply with a court-ordered drug treatment program, and had a warrant for a greater part of a year that she never addressed because she didn't want to deal with it. When she got arrested last August, he bailed her out and she never showed up for her hearing and that led to the other warrant. I would think he knew of the consequences of doing that but who knows. Maybe he wanted her to go to jail. She's on probation now and if she gets arrested again she'll be facing five years in prison.

She got mad at me for following her court cases, but I had paid her fines for her (which was really stupid of me, especially since she never thanked me for doing that) and now I'm tied to her first case because of that. I had a vested interest in what was happening and the fact that it's a matter of public record; all you have to do is Google her name and a lot of that information shows up on the first page of results. She won't be able to ignore her problems or her past anymore.

I've tried to be understanding. I grew up with extremely judgmental parents who questioned everything I did, even when I was an honor student and stayed out of trouble. I don't want to be like that. I could have walked away from her many times in the past but I continued to believe in her when few others would. I could talk calmly to her about things while her ex went off on her on a daily basis and she said she appreciated that I didn't treat her like a child. I have always been an extremely patient person, and to a fault, I put up with way too much of others' BS. I reached my breaking point with her after her arrest in August. I had some very unkind words for her when I found out she blew off her court appearance and got another warrant. We did not part on good terms. I also wrote her a bunch of really long emails explaining everything to her but I am pretty sure even to this day she hasn't read them (although her ex might have, which is upsetting).

Do I miss her? Absolutely. But I know I cannot let her back into my life because I know she will continue to disappoint me and I can't let her hurt me again. I'll always have a place in my heart for her, but my heart and psyche can't take any more of her problems.
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Old 03-14-2017, 03:48 PM   #26 (permalink)
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I seriously doubt her ex read those emails. You were in frequent contact with him. Don't you think he would have said something to you about them if he had read them?

But anyways, the 'lesson' for us co-dependents is to get out of the mindset that we need to save others. The only way addicts are going to pull themselves up out of the mire is if the people in their lives stop saving them-and they face up to their own choices. Her choice to be an escort; her choice to use drugs. Other 'professions' may not appeal to her....as many prostitutes are paid in drugs. Which could be why she has not pursued another career. And, sure, it's hard to stand by and watch people you care about self destruct...attempts to save them are often just temporary fixes for them....and they are back to their old 'tricks' -no pun intended. You are wise to put it all behind you and go forward with your own life, which can be full of wonderful things.

Appearances are just that. It is how a person appears. Which can change. Personally, I don't get the whole 'selfie' movement. Why would a person take pictures of their self all the time? It's beyond me. But it seems to be the in thing with the younger generation, including my kids' generation. What's more important and has more lasting value is what is going on on the inside. Call me old fashioned.

My sister who is a recovering heroin addict was extremely wrapped up in her appearance for many years. It was tied in with her self worth. A big part of her recovery was getting away from being all about looks and developing other strengths in herself/life. She feels very fortunate that she got away from the old life and now that she is in her early '50s has much more than just looks to feel good about.
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Old 03-14-2017, 09:10 PM   #27 (permalink)
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I took note of this:

I grew up with extremely judgmental parents who questioned everything I did, even when I was an honor student and stayed out of trouble. I don't want to be like that

I'm sure you are not like that. And, I really really hate when parents are too critical of their good kids. I lucked out as far as my parents were not critical about scholastics. We did well enough, but there was not much pressure to do so and my parents did not make a big fuss about it. Now, when it came to handling a horse or picking the guitar, my dad was not always patient and at times critical. My mom had the patience of a saint when she taught us how to do stuff.

Sounds like you turned out alright though. But perhaps because of having critical parents you may be a bit of a people pleaser in some cases.

That whole thing with the escort gal: it reminds me of the complications that can arise when there is a love triangle. You wanted to save her. I get that. But, she is going to have to save herself. As long as she is dependent on men to save her, she may never untangle herself from her problems. She has to save herself. Drugs are not her only "dependency".

I totally get that whole "rescue" mentality, however. I'll tell you about a work situation I went through many many years ago. Worked with a man who was awesome at what he did, attractive, great personality. We had a good rappore. If I wanted to I could have got something going with him; I wasn't married at the time. He was. But I never let it get there and I'm so glad I didn't. One of my co-workers, however, and a friend of mine, did get involved with him. She felt sorry for him because he worked so dang hard and was stressed to the max and he started confiding in her about how his wife treated him, etc. She wanted to "help" him; save him from this beast of a wife he had who would call up at work and we could hear her screeching at him hysterically through the phone. She was a raging alcoholic. Well, they eventually started an affair. She was married too. His wife found out and tried to kill them both. She got tried and convicted for attempted murder. She didn't succeed in killing them, thank God, but it was dicey. I don't know how long the affair relationship continued-I know they both got divorces and were still together when I moved and I didn't stay in touch after that.
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Old 03-15-2017, 10:19 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Teatreeoil007,

Yeah, my parents are weird. I am about the most anti-drug person you'll ever meet yet my mom was always concerned that I was doing drugs or the devil (since I listed to hard rock music...). She used to go through my trash and journals thinking I was up to something but there was no reason for them to ever think that. I guess they didn't trust my friends. My family doesn't know my friend even exists and it's going to stay that way.

Her ex claimed he read some of my emails but didn't read others. His reasoning was that he wanted to censor what I was saying because he thought she might get upset at some of the things I said. I know she was extremely paranoid that he was doing that, as well as going through her text messages. She has very little privacy and I can understand why, but I think he went a little too far at times. But whatever, it's a moot point now.

I believe my friend does think all she has are her looks, but there's so much more there and I hope she realizes that. There are a lot of other reasons I was so drawn to her and was willing to do so much to try to help her. I believed she was a soul-mate.

I don't regret getting close to my friend. While things got really bad, there were still a lot of good times and I'll always cherish them. She'll always mean something to me, even if my feelings toward her are not particularly favorable right now. I wish her luck and continue to pray for her.

Anyway, I really appreciate all the feedback I've gotten regarding this. It has been very therapeutic discussing this. Believe it or not, this was the condensed version. There's a lot more even more crazy stuff that I didn't mention but I'd still like to keep some things private, even if it seems silly considering what I have shared. I tried discussing this matter in another forum and got some really harsh criticism so to finally hear from people who understand has been a blessing.

I'll do my best to continue to heal. I know it will take time. Thank you.
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Old 03-19-2017, 09:54 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Teatreeoil007,

Yeah, my parents are weird. I am about the most anti-drug person you'll ever meet yet my mom was always concerned that I was doing drugs or the devil (since I listed to hard rock music...). She used to go through my trash and journals thinking I was up to something but there was no reason for them to ever think that. I guess they didn't trust my friends. My family doesn't know my friend even exists and it's going to stay that way.

Her ex claimed he read some of my emails but didn't read others. His reasoning was that he wanted to censor what I was saying because he thought she might get upset at some of the things I said. I know she was extremely paranoid that he was doing that, as well as going through her text messages. She has very little privacy and I can understand why, but I think he went a little too far at times. But whatever, it's a moot point now.

I believe my friend does think all she has are her looks, but there's so much more there and I hope she realizes that. There are a lot of other reasons I was so drawn to her and was willing to do so much to try to help her. I believed she was a soul-mate.

I don't regret getting close to my friend. While things got really bad, there were still a lot of good times and I'll always cherish them. She'll always mean something to me, even if my feelings toward her are not particularly favorable right now. I wish her luck and continue to pray for her.

Anyway, I really appreciate all the feedback I've gotten regarding this. It has been very therapeutic discussing this. Believe it or not, this was the condensed version. There's a lot more even more crazy stuff that I didn't mention but I'd still like to keep some things private, even if it seems silly considering what I have shared. I tried discussing this matter in another forum and got some really harsh criticism so to finally hear from people who understand has been a blessing.

I'll do my best to continue to heal. I know it will take time. Thank you.
Not meaning to psychoanalyze or anything, but the fact that your parents were/are so strict and paranoid about anything 'bad' or 'wrong' and have a history of being suspicious of your friends....well, your special friend is a particular brand of of "forbidden fruit".

My thoughts: forbidden or not, she came into your life, she was/is special and left a mark on you...but I really do believe that with time there can be healing....I certainly don't judge you for any of this or for having a relationship with her. It sounds like you really love and care about her. Her 'ex' doesn't sound so much like a true ex as it seems he is still very much in her life and has some control.

I am glad you have found this site helpful. Feel free to share more if you want to.
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Old 03-25-2017, 10:50 PM   #30 (permalink)
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I just wanted to give an update... apparently she failed out of the state's drug treatment program so they will resume prosecution. She could be facing five years in prison. So sad, but I guess in some ways this can be a good thing.
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Old 03-27-2017, 01:49 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Sometimes they do end up in prison. The reality is if she is doing anything illegal, she could get caught and get in big trouble. You have no control over any of it.
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Old 03-27-2017, 02:47 PM   #32 (permalink)
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I do want to say this...

My cousin, who is 14 years older than me, got messed up with drugs and his impaired judgement had led to serious injury to a young child. He up spending time in prison as a result as you could very well imagine. It cost him his marriage and severely hurt the relationship he had with his two young daughters.

When he was in prison he was able to get clean, find his faith, and turn his life around and become involved in his daughters' lives again. He also started his own business and has been quite successful. My family has always been very judgmental but have come to realize that he did overcome his demons and become a productive member of society and don't feel any ill will toward him (to my knowledge). I am sure having the proper support system in place helped a lot but it was also very important that he accepted responsibility for his own actions and has grown as a person during his incarceration.

I want to believe my former friend can overcome this but I honestly don't think her ex is the right person to provide the support she needs. I don't claim to be either, as I know I just can't handle the stress of the situation. I am fairly certain there is no one else in her life that's looking out for her.

Perhaps going to prison is what she needs. She had blown off all her court appearances (except for the one I took her to) until she was held without bail following her arrest three months ago. There's no way she's going to be able to ignore this stuff if she's behind bars. I won't be visiting her if this happens.
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Old 03-27-2017, 05:50 PM   #33 (permalink)
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People can and do turn their lives around all the time and that's inspiring! Good for your cousin. I have some cousins who did that too, albeit didn't go to prison, but DID get clean and stay clean and totally changed their lives for the better. Much healthier because of it.

You said your x friend doesn't have any support. Well, that might because she's burned too many bridges and that's sad, but it is likely a consequence of her choices. She used you. You got burned. How many other people has she done that with? I'm sure you're not the only one who needed to get away and stay away from her.

Her 'ex' does sound a little mixed up himself, so you're probably right, he is not the best help for her.

You know, it's hard to say in some cases, just who is going to be the most helpful person. I think it's going to be someone who will draw a hard line and hold her accountable for everything. It's likely going to take a certain amount of tough love and in reality there are not that many people who know how to do the tough love thing right. My ex BIL ended up living with his sister for awhile after he got out of jail and into recovery and she was actually good for him and didn't put up with any BS whatsoever. As far as I know he has stayed clean and sober and has really worked on his recovery and made amends the best he could. But there are some bridges that he burned that may never be re-built.
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