Response requested

Old 08-21-2016, 05:58 PM
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Response requested

Since no one responded to my posts,I decided to call psych ER to check on AS and update them about sober living placement.
However I still have one more question at end along with this update.
Seems they were probably going to release him tomorrow anyway. Can't really hold him much longer since he doesn't meet criteria. Mostly he's agitated about being there and related to his substance abuse problem.
Spoke with Dr. on duty- felt obliged to let them know there was a bed available at the sober living and told them AS said he would go, but probably would not, since that's largely what started this last episode.
Knowing that may have moved up their decision to release him a little earlier, because they don't want to release him to the streets. if he could have been released to my care, he would be out today. They will call to confirm with sober living and help get him there. (prob bus tokens)
I did ask that if they call sober living that they not discuss reasons why AS in hospital. I would prefer they not alter their program or protocol because of this.
It might even be possible to ask sober living to pick him up, but I'm not comfortable since they don't need to know all the details about my son's acting out . they've already seen how he behaved anyway. RAther no holds on him at sober living, since that's not premise under which he would go there. it isn't jail. just a bed, a meal, and a couple meetings and chance for support.

AT this point, I guess I'm updating, since I've already called them. i did tell doctor I would do that as soon as I know, so why should I be manipulative? but one more thing......if you're gna comment anyway, at least appreciate viewpoints or ESH. thnx

But I do want to know: should I just leave it in hospital's hands to make the call and arrangements from here? (I do have all my son's stuff and will ultimately go there to drop it off anyway. )
Or, should I plan to pick up AS and take him to sober living to make sure he goes there and then I can not go into detail about hospital?

Would that be better than picking AS up myself and taking him to sober living?
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Old 08-21-2016, 06:05 PM
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I would let the hospital handle it, vaya.
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Old 08-21-2016, 06:59 PM
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Thanks Suki. I just did. I'm working at the time they plan to release him anyway.
He prob won't go straight to sober living tho, since he's just 3 days clean.
Up to him. If I were to pick him up and take him to sober living, I'd have to put up with him asking me for money, give him a ride to where he can connect, etc., which I'd rather not endure. I'm over thinking I could control whether or not he uses by picking him up and taking him there. he'd just leave anyway.
So the hospital will just give him bus tokens and send him there. Doubt he'll go straight there. Will prob bug me anyway cuz i have a lot of his stuff. At least I dont have to hear it in the car all the way from hospital.
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Old 08-21-2016, 07:37 PM
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This thread is related to my post about AS Timeline to go....wasn't getting responses there so i needed to reach out here to let people know I was asking for feedback soon. You can reply here or to other post, AS Timeline to Leave. NOt trying to confuse. Was just trying to get some feedback somewhere.
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Old 08-21-2016, 07:55 PM
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Hey Vaya, I'd second Suki as far as leaving it to the hospital.

This must be super tough. I do hope you are taking care of yourself!
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Old 08-21-2016, 10:18 PM
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i really hear you wanting so hard to help him, vaya. And I relate to how it might feel like if you can just figure out the right thing to do here, that will make the difference towards fixing things.

Maybe doing the right thing helps, and doing the wrong thing exacerbates, but ultimately, his choice for a better life will not be so closely tied to anything you do. Which is absolutely terrifying. But in my opinion, this is a key distinction to keep in mind for yourself, as you suffer or enjoy along with him in whatever bumps or successes he finds.

I definitely have no answer for your question; just hugs of support for YOU, cause this is so tough.
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Old 08-21-2016, 10:49 PM
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Vaya, I'm glad you are letting the hospital deal with how he gets there. You say he will still bug you, and I'm sure he will as they always do. One thing that helped me was to stop taking my son's calls. If he had something to say to me he had to do it through text or email. That way it cut down on his whining because just saying something is so much easier than typing it. And it also allowed me time to process what he said as well as how or if to respond. And if he was able to text me I knew he was at least alive. You are in my prayers. Stay strong!
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Old 08-22-2016, 03:09 AM
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Vaya, I too would let the hospital handle this. Your son will go or not go, stay or not stay, it's out of your hands sweetie. No matter how hard you work to make this all work out, in the end we are powerless over the outcome.

I will keep your son and you both in my prayers and really really hope this ends well.

Hugs
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Old 08-22-2016, 03:50 AM
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"Knowing that may have moved up their decision to release him a little earlier, because they don't want to release him to the streets."

This is absolutely correct. Hospitals face huge liabilities when they discharge patients. To release someone with substance abuse and/or mental health issues directly onto the street would be negligent.

I am in agreement with everyone else that the hospital should handle it.

You and your son are included in my prayers every night.
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Old 08-22-2016, 12:33 PM
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My favorite quote from Naranon "doing nothing is doing something." Prayers for you and your son, I know how this hurts your mother's heart. Elissa
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Old 08-22-2016, 01:01 PM
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I agree with dorton to stop taking his calls. There's nothing positive from them and they're all manipulative. Knowing that, it begs the question "why do you answer those calls?"

My experience with my daughter was that I answered because I was addicted to her, addicted to the drama, and I felt horrible when I didn't answer. Like I was letting her down. I made it all about me because I didn't like and couldn't stand feeling uncomfortable about her. My ego was out of control.

Just something to think about.
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Old 08-22-2016, 08:10 PM
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The hospital's idea of handling it was giving him some bus tokens and saying goodbye. AS did call when his phone was dying not sure how to get to sober living place. I wound up meeting him nearer to me and taking him there, since I did have his stuff in the car. He wound up coming back my way with me and hanging out for a while. I know you think I shouldn't have done that, but I did and I still let him know he had to go to the sober living place, which he did.

I hate all of this and sometimes this site. He was clean today, yet I sent him away, largely at the advice of many here. He had agreed to go there so he went.

The place is pretty run down and bad and most of the people there are mentally disturbed. I'd feel a lot better if it wasn't such a bad place. When he asked my why there, Isaid he was using so much in my house and I'd had enough and that was the best thing I could think of that was no so far into the ghetto and that would probably be somewhat more understanding so he didn't get kicked out after a couple days.
I'm really upset. I understand that he has to get the message that what he's been doing everytime he comes here is not ok.
He says he wants to stay clean, but still doesn't think meetings will help him.

I probably shouldnt' have even interacted that much with him today and just left him at the place. I don't want to feel like I'm punishing him, although using heroin in my house is wrong. It's easier to turn him out when he's loaded. But when he's sober???? i feel I made a mistake tonight.
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Old 08-22-2016, 08:23 PM
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I realize he needs to understand there are consequences for his actions. Certainly the ER for a few days was one. And he had agreed to go to the sober living. Tomorrow he may wind up staying here anyway since I'm taking him to court in the morning on Wednesday. and then back to the sober living.
He may also have the chance of staying at someone's apt. while they are away, someone we both know. But he has to stay sober and work on things.

I think this is the first time he was put out sober. when he was loaded he just did it. I hate all of this!!!!!
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Old 08-22-2016, 10:35 PM
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I do know, as I told him, that this wouldn't even be happening if he hadn't made the choices he did. I told him every time he stays at my house the same thing happens and I won't have it anymore.

When he complained about the sober living I suggested he should have stayed in the hospital then.
It's hard for me to detach, yes. Maybe I am addicted to his addiction and lifestyle. He is my son and it hurts to tell him to go.
But I also know deep down he has to figure out what he's going to do with his life.
He's mad and told me he wasn't going to talk to me for a while. I sent a few texts to him and now will leave him to his space and enjoy mine.
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Old 08-23-2016, 01:23 AM
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vaya.....sorry, but I just HAVE to point out the irony here....lol....
You are trying to help him....and, he said he is mad at you.....
We are trying to help you and you hate us......

I think that the worst thing he can do is to stay at someone else"s apartment when they are away. He is sure to feel more free to use/drink, there! They always do!

I know that it is so hard for you to believe, but he will "get the messages" much more from anybody else, but YOU!
At this point, the outside world has much m ore control over him than you do.
And, it is not important...how "comfortable" he is. That has no effect on his accepting the need for recovery. In fact, it is the opposite.
Stop making him comfortable.....
Don't take his mean words to you, personally (as much as you can)...
That is his disease talking...and he KNOWS that it bothers you. He will hit your guilt and fear buttons like nobody's business...just to keep you in line and doing what he wants you to do.....
Sure he will talk to y ou, again...lol.....just as soon as he wants something!

I know that it is hard, when they seem sober and "human" for a lttle while.
Remember, that you aren't trying to hurt him or to p unish him---you are doing the very thing that will HELP him, in the long run.
Not enabling, and showing very strong boundaries is the most loving thing you can do for the addicted. They don't have boundaries and someone has to supply boundaries for their own good!
While it feel so good when they are sober....don't forget that they have a long road ahead where they will need discipline and structure. if they are to get into recovery......

Hang tough, mom!

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Old 08-23-2016, 12:05 PM
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vaya, i guess i don't understand. you specially ASKED for responses on what to do, as you felt you had asked in your other thread and didn't get enough replies. and you did get MANY replies here.....and then promptly turned around and immediately re-involved yourself in your son's situation.

you went so far as to go pick him up, bring him back to your HOME, which you just swore would never happen. in fact you say he may STAY at your house because of court..........you seem absolutely incapable of keeping your hands OFF his life for more than about 4 minutes. evne when he displays anger towards you, pulls away even the fewest of millimeters, you ramp up the contact with multiple texts.

it's time to look at your OWN behavior. and where is poor son #2 when you are swooping around rescuing son #1??? he is learning that acting up and acting out are the ways to get your attention. dn't be surprised if he starts using..........being the "normal" kid isn't getting him any benefits......
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Old 08-23-2016, 02:39 PM
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Anvil, that is a very powerful statement. Son #2 is watching this unfold and it will have repurcussions. Kids watch us and do what we do not what we say.
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Old 08-23-2016, 09:11 PM
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Much of what you say does make sense. However, Son #2 is not a baby. he is 25 years old. he hates his brother's using and has seen him thrown out, in jail, and more. I drew the line I did especially for him, so he would feel safe and not be stressed out by his brother's problems. I will have to distance myself. AS is bugging me about the place, but I am not budging about it. He can still stay there at least until the month is up. His apt may even be ready by then.
I will be more careful about not extending myself too much.
I did not manipulate the situation at the hospital. They called me. I don't know why they didn't ask him for the number and call themselves. I didn't control that. Was I supposed to lie. I waited about a day and a half before I called them back with the information. I didn't control that situation like you think. I was just worrying about how soon to let them know. At best, maybe I should have waited for them to call me again, but they asked me to call them.
Bringing him back to my house yesterday afternoon was stupid on my part and doesn't give him the right message. Sometimes practicality does factor into things. I am giving him a ride to court because I had already planned on it. I'm not going 17 miles away round trip in the morning to get him and then back another 17-25 miles to court. That's why he's here tonight. I don't thnk the busses would even be running there at the hour he'd have to leave.
I didn't say I hate you. I just hate the whole situation. I know I have to stick to having hm stay at the sober living and he hates it. When he lamented about it I said then you shouldn't do things to land you in that situation. Same thing when he complained about the hospital. I am not falling for all of his whining and guilt tripping he's trying to put on me. I am not engaging about it.
Am I still too involved. Yes. I'm working on that. Maybe not the way you think, but I am making strides. took him to hospital. ensured he stayed at the place, or at least not here last night and being generally tougher and more detached.
I know it's not enough. I will work on it.
Haven't decided whether or not he can stay at friend's house. I will heed your words carefully about that.
So, I appreciate your candor andcalling me on things. But I may not follow your plan exactly, but I hear what you are saying and am finding my way with that. It's ok. YOu can beat me over the head. Ultimately I want to do what i do because it is what I need and he needs, but i want it to come from me and not because you told me to. And don't beat me up for asking for responses. This site is helpful, but no one ever responds timely before I do things. It's always after the fact. Not your fault. I guess this isn't the site for urgent decisions and guidance with that.
So, keep it real. I'll try to process that and learn to detach and become less and less involved with his recovery.
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Old 08-23-2016, 10:46 PM
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I have been trying my level best to "keep it real".
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Old 08-24-2016, 12:43 AM
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vaya....I have been thinking about your requests.
I have been trying to give you an indepth resoponse, after you post..which is usually in the early morning hours...after midnight.
I would be happy to post in a more "timely" manner before you do things. My problem with that is--I don't always know before you do things.

You said "You can beat me over the head."...My goal in posting to you is not to "beat you over the head". that would serve no purpose to you or to me, for that matter.
My goal is to pay things forward by offering my experience to someone else who has faced some of the same things that I have. I wish to god that I had someone to help me when I was hurting so badly. I didn't have the internet, then. I needed guidance so badly, but, I didn't know any other parents who had walked the same path.

You asked that I not "beat you up for asking for responses". I read over my posts...and I don't think that I beat you up for that....however, if you will show me where I did..I will do my best to never do that again.

Now, I do get it that I have been especially honest and straight forward to you, in my responses. I know that it sounds harsh....it is so hard to describe how to make the kind of very strong boundaries that your situation literally demands.
I try to do it with as much compassion as I can with the written word.
I know how hard it is for mothers to do what, often, feels so counter-intuitive.
and these kind of changes are sooo hard.

Maybe, you could tell me exactly what times you would like me to post. and, tell me a better way to communicate with you, the things that I think would help you as a mother, as well as what would be helpful for your son.

As one mother to another..I want to help you. But, I centainly don't want to make it worse....

I feel so, so sorry....so sorry, in the face of such human pain.....

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