Timeline for AS to leave
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Join Date: Jun 2010
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didn't go as planned. he refused to go after he saw it. wouldn't come inside. then deliberately smoked a joint right in front of the place.
at one point I tried to get a refund, since I didn't sign anything and he hadn't even moved in yet. tried to cancel check, but it had already been cashed day before.
I was feeling betrayed since I was pressured into committing before my son saw it, under threat of losing the bed, the evening before. Tried to work it out with the owner/manager, but he said no refunds. Encouraged me to take tough love approach and send my AS back to him.
We went back. AS willing to consider giving it a try, but still fighting it. had a talk upstairs and he got very insulted when owner accused him of being momma's boy and time to act like a man and left. he did voice some of what he had to say and then texted owner his thoughts about feeling betrayed, entrapped, and insulted. Then impossible to get him to stay. he walked off, saying better to sleep on the beach. I explained to owner that I couldn't force him to stay there and would like him to reconsider refund, even half of the $250 I paid for half the month. But he refused, depsite my pleas and concerns. Said I was being too easy and that's why AS acting like that. My phone was dead. couldn't reach him, so I drove back to work close by to charge phone and call from land line. He wanted to go to hospital. I waited to respond. Then later made mistake of saying I would take him to hospital. Before taking him to hospital suggested he consider all his options carefully. His primary concern driving much of the decisions was fear of being dope sick in the morning and unable to function. he was going to stay, but afraid of that. Thought hospital best option. I worked on trying not to control and decide for him explaining he had to take control of his life. not me. Went to hospital, he refused to get out, changed his mind. stalled for time. got angry at me for not letting him be part of decision. ( I asked him about it, told him what I was doing, invited him to come with me mon & tues, but he had other things to do. finally texted him I was paying for 2 weeks, but no reply. He was most scared because the people there are all older and disabled, many mental on SSI and those were the same people that got on him for every little thing at his apartment when he finally exploded. He was afraid of same thing. Fast forward , much talking, some arguing, me working on not reacting and stating, whatever you say. it's your life. you get to choose for all his plans to kill himself, etc. he says I'm just like his father when he threw him out when AS was 20 , disowned me, hated me, threatened to make my life miserable , etc.
i think I did a better job of asking questions, rather than providing answers.
Bottom line, decided to let him sleep in my car tonight. apartment is off limits. I'm done with his using and shooting heroin in my house. He has not lived up to what he said he'd do. Explained how painful and frightening it is for parent and rest of family. When i mentioned his using appeard to be underlying factor every time things went wrong he became angry sayint that's all I say.
He is in total denial. doesn't see that as primary problem. problem is because i left for about 4-5 years after being wrongfully evicted, to find new home for us. Father wouldn't let me see kids, although I had full custody. I had had a nervous breakdown also just before and perhaps bad reaction to adderall I was prescribed, but still managed to keep it together enough to try and pack our belongins in between being wrongfully evicted and locked out of my house so I couldn't move. horrible time. i became homeless for 5 years. AS and brother stayed with father for summer initially, but then he wouldn't let me see them because he thought I lost it. Wound up being major source of trauma and resentment for AS. Says bad parenting is the root cause of his problems and wasn't taught right. Refuses to acknowledge that shooting heroin had contributed to his lost jobs, opportunities, depression, etc......
Soooooo......I was being strong. made first mistake by calling him after I left. He might have gone back up or just left.
REfused to acknowledge that primary reason he can't stay with me now is the drugs and eratic behavior that goes with it.
One of worst days of my life. Lost $250 because I felt pressured to act right away. I too was angry about no refund at all . I tried their way at sober living, but couldn't chain son to chair.
Trying to help him keep that option open and just apologize to owner .
He didn't go nuts, thank goodness, but he was vocal about concerns.
So....I am sending the message that he can't be here if using. I've had it.
Was tougher and calmer and explained why and what despite his laments.
He was sooo mad. Now sleeping in car tonight.
Also struggling with feeling coerced by owner and rushed into things per everyone's suggestion. Feel badly about set up, but, as I said to him, if it weren't for the drugs we wouldn't even be doing this right now.
A heroin addict will go to any length to prevent anything from interfering with getting that fix. He reacts like a caged animal in some respects.
Hoping he'll reconsider tomorrow. sober living. but continues to say he will beat up owner for hat he said to him earlier. Trying not to make it too cushy for him. I understand I cannot save him REcognize that cognitive dissonance needed as catalyst for change.
he isn't as sick as some of the things he says He has so much pent up anger.
In my heart I know I cannot let him back in house now. Have reached end of my rope and he knows it. Feels I hate him, etc explain not him, but disease.
CAn't believe this. it probably wouldn't matter if I stayed or not. His reaction was like that of a cat cornered in a corner. It is sickening how insipid this disease is.
I hate the disease. I hate my codependency and uncertainty of what is the 'right ' thing to do. Frustrated. Trying to follow my gut, get tougher and doing better, despite what others may think here
What do you do when a grown man acts like that?
HOpe we can apologize and keep option open.
Iknow helping not the answer.Hate having to make these decisions, but I am sick of his drug use and having a front row seat to it and being manipulated.
Sooooo frustrated. Soooo mad.
at one point I tried to get a refund, since I didn't sign anything and he hadn't even moved in yet. tried to cancel check, but it had already been cashed day before.
I was feeling betrayed since I was pressured into committing before my son saw it, under threat of losing the bed, the evening before. Tried to work it out with the owner/manager, but he said no refunds. Encouraged me to take tough love approach and send my AS back to him.
We went back. AS willing to consider giving it a try, but still fighting it. had a talk upstairs and he got very insulted when owner accused him of being momma's boy and time to act like a man and left. he did voice some of what he had to say and then texted owner his thoughts about feeling betrayed, entrapped, and insulted. Then impossible to get him to stay. he walked off, saying better to sleep on the beach. I explained to owner that I couldn't force him to stay there and would like him to reconsider refund, even half of the $250 I paid for half the month. But he refused, depsite my pleas and concerns. Said I was being too easy and that's why AS acting like that. My phone was dead. couldn't reach him, so I drove back to work close by to charge phone and call from land line. He wanted to go to hospital. I waited to respond. Then later made mistake of saying I would take him to hospital. Before taking him to hospital suggested he consider all his options carefully. His primary concern driving much of the decisions was fear of being dope sick in the morning and unable to function. he was going to stay, but afraid of that. Thought hospital best option. I worked on trying not to control and decide for him explaining he had to take control of his life. not me. Went to hospital, he refused to get out, changed his mind. stalled for time. got angry at me for not letting him be part of decision. ( I asked him about it, told him what I was doing, invited him to come with me mon & tues, but he had other things to do. finally texted him I was paying for 2 weeks, but no reply. He was most scared because the people there are all older and disabled, many mental on SSI and those were the same people that got on him for every little thing at his apartment when he finally exploded. He was afraid of same thing. Fast forward , much talking, some arguing, me working on not reacting and stating, whatever you say. it's your life. you get to choose for all his plans to kill himself, etc. he says I'm just like his father when he threw him out when AS was 20 , disowned me, hated me, threatened to make my life miserable , etc.
i think I did a better job of asking questions, rather than providing answers.
Bottom line, decided to let him sleep in my car tonight. apartment is off limits. I'm done with his using and shooting heroin in my house. He has not lived up to what he said he'd do. Explained how painful and frightening it is for parent and rest of family. When i mentioned his using appeard to be underlying factor every time things went wrong he became angry sayint that's all I say.
He is in total denial. doesn't see that as primary problem. problem is because i left for about 4-5 years after being wrongfully evicted, to find new home for us. Father wouldn't let me see kids, although I had full custody. I had had a nervous breakdown also just before and perhaps bad reaction to adderall I was prescribed, but still managed to keep it together enough to try and pack our belongins in between being wrongfully evicted and locked out of my house so I couldn't move. horrible time. i became homeless for 5 years. AS and brother stayed with father for summer initially, but then he wouldn't let me see them because he thought I lost it. Wound up being major source of trauma and resentment for AS. Says bad parenting is the root cause of his problems and wasn't taught right. Refuses to acknowledge that shooting heroin had contributed to his lost jobs, opportunities, depression, etc......
Soooooo......I was being strong. made first mistake by calling him after I left. He might have gone back up or just left.
REfused to acknowledge that primary reason he can't stay with me now is the drugs and eratic behavior that goes with it.
One of worst days of my life. Lost $250 because I felt pressured to act right away. I too was angry about no refund at all . I tried their way at sober living, but couldn't chain son to chair.
Trying to help him keep that option open and just apologize to owner .
He didn't go nuts, thank goodness, but he was vocal about concerns.
So....I am sending the message that he can't be here if using. I've had it.
Was tougher and calmer and explained why and what despite his laments.
He was sooo mad. Now sleeping in car tonight.
Also struggling with feeling coerced by owner and rushed into things per everyone's suggestion. Feel badly about set up, but, as I said to him, if it weren't for the drugs we wouldn't even be doing this right now.
A heroin addict will go to any length to prevent anything from interfering with getting that fix. He reacts like a caged animal in some respects.
Hoping he'll reconsider tomorrow. sober living. but continues to say he will beat up owner for hat he said to him earlier. Trying not to make it too cushy for him. I understand I cannot save him REcognize that cognitive dissonance needed as catalyst for change.
he isn't as sick as some of the things he says He has so much pent up anger.
In my heart I know I cannot let him back in house now. Have reached end of my rope and he knows it. Feels I hate him, etc explain not him, but disease.
CAn't believe this. it probably wouldn't matter if I stayed or not. His reaction was like that of a cat cornered in a corner. It is sickening how insipid this disease is.
I hate the disease. I hate my codependency and uncertainty of what is the 'right ' thing to do. Frustrated. Trying to follow my gut, get tougher and doing better, despite what others may think here
What do you do when a grown man acts like that?
HOpe we can apologize and keep option open.
Iknow helping not the answer.Hate having to make these decisions, but I am sick of his drug use and having a front row seat to it and being manipulated.
Sooooo frustrated. Soooo mad.
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
vaya....I am sorry about the 250 dollars. I know that is a lot of money for you to lose. Don't get your hopes up about getting it back...or, I'm actually staying for very long, if he does go in.....
I know that you are trying to do the most reasonable thing...and to reason with him.
It is sooo hard for us to understand and accept that they can't "hear" what we are saying...no matter how fair, sensible, and reasonable we are.
The compulsion to use and the fear of withdraw dominates everything else...everything!
I am glad that you aren't going to let him back into your house, any more.
Hold the line.
Maybe, he will go to the hospital..which would be the best thing for him.
Try to be like Teflon....do not take anything he says to you personally...AND DONT LET HIM PUSH YOUR GUILT BUTTONS.
Your guilt is the worst burden for you, right now.
He knows that...and it will use that like nobody's business!
If he were my son....(and I have walked in your shoes).....
I would let him go to the streets ...if he won't go to the hospital....
And, pray that he gets arrested....I would even assist his getting arrested, if the opportunity arose.....
At least, jail would be safer and he would have a chance for medical care, also.....
It is beyond frustrating to try to control something that is out of your control.....
About the only control that you have is to put up strong, strong, strong, boundaries.....That is the only thing that he will understand, right now.
I am sending you the strength to do whatever it is that you have to do.....
dandylion
I know that you are trying to do the most reasonable thing...and to reason with him.
It is sooo hard for us to understand and accept that they can't "hear" what we are saying...no matter how fair, sensible, and reasonable we are.
The compulsion to use and the fear of withdraw dominates everything else...everything!
I am glad that you aren't going to let him back into your house, any more.
Hold the line.
Maybe, he will go to the hospital..which would be the best thing for him.
Try to be like Teflon....do not take anything he says to you personally...AND DONT LET HIM PUSH YOUR GUILT BUTTONS.
Your guilt is the worst burden for you, right now.
He knows that...and it will use that like nobody's business!
If he were my son....(and I have walked in your shoes).....
I would let him go to the streets ...if he won't go to the hospital....
And, pray that he gets arrested....I would even assist his getting arrested, if the opportunity arose.....
At least, jail would be safer and he would have a chance for medical care, also.....
It is beyond frustrating to try to control something that is out of your control.....
About the only control that you have is to put up strong, strong, strong, boundaries.....That is the only thing that he will understand, right now.
I am sending you the strength to do whatever it is that you have to do.....
dandylion
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Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 341
Thank you Dandylion. I know he is dominated by fear of withdrawal. I appreciate what you said. Somehow he has to realize he needs help. Yes the place wasn't that great but its a bed and one of the few places where he could probably get thru a few nights or more and they'd work with him.
I know if I didn't have a place to live, job, or a nickel left to my name I wouldn't be as choosy and if I was, then I would sleep on the streets and have.
He is insulted by my choice of place and feels it is beneath him and apalled about the money, yet, as I told him, it's ok to use the money I have givne him to shoot dope, & in my house no less. That's how deep his denial goes. I don't like doing this but somehow he's got to get it.
I know if I didn't have a place to live, job, or a nickel left to my name I wouldn't be as choosy and if I was, then I would sleep on the streets and have.
He is insulted by my choice of place and feels it is beneath him and apalled about the money, yet, as I told him, it's ok to use the money I have givne him to shoot dope, & in my house no less. That's how deep his denial goes. I don't like doing this but somehow he's got to get it.
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
vaya....from your post...you have been tough enough to survive other very tough times, in your life.
Hang tough...at this point..it is really the only option....
He has used up his other options..and, he is unable to hear anything else, now....
I hope you have some support for yourself??
dandylion.
Hang tough...at this point..it is really the only option....
He has used up his other options..and, he is unable to hear anything else, now....
I hope you have some support for yourself??
dandylion.
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Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 341
AS angry as heck at me. Now that I am beginning to detach and not react as much he accuses me of being mean and abusing him. I think he is having withdrawals from me as well as heroin.
I really hope they keep him as long as possible so he can stabilize. these days they don't always hold them as long. AS tried to get out telling psychiatrist he goes to DMH, but I said he usually misses his appointments. ER will tend to boot them out if they are already receiving services. Dr. does know AS can't live with me.
Wondering should I let sober living place know he went to hospital this morning and now may be unable to go there. Mainly so I can get refund or partial. I'm still burned up about it since we never signed anything. Only reason I haven't pursued it is because at least it was a kind of option for him to go there if they are even holding the bed. But, I'd rather have my money back and let AS stay somewhere else he can figure out.
Guess this loss of $250 is what I get for trying to provide at least a bed & a hot meal with a roof over his head if he can't stay here.
On the other hand, maybe he is getting the message of the lengths I am willing to go so he cannot be here.
Really hope he can stay at hospital and maybe they can find some kind of placement, even if temp. AT least hold him through weekend so he can detox and be a little better and more rational after.
I really hope they keep him as long as possible so he can stabilize. these days they don't always hold them as long. AS tried to get out telling psychiatrist he goes to DMH, but I said he usually misses his appointments. ER will tend to boot them out if they are already receiving services. Dr. does know AS can't live with me.
Wondering should I let sober living place know he went to hospital this morning and now may be unable to go there. Mainly so I can get refund or partial. I'm still burned up about it since we never signed anything. Only reason I haven't pursued it is because at least it was a kind of option for him to go there if they are even holding the bed. But, I'd rather have my money back and let AS stay somewhere else he can figure out.
Guess this loss of $250 is what I get for trying to provide at least a bed & a hot meal with a roof over his head if he can't stay here.
On the other hand, maybe he is getting the message of the lengths I am willing to go so he cannot be here.
Really hope he can stay at hospital and maybe they can find some kind of placement, even if temp. AT least hold him through weekend so he can detox and be a little better and more rational after.
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Join Date: Aug 2011
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vaya....good that you are working on detaching from the things that he says about you, Become Teflon, in that respect.
expect him to stay angry and blaming of you for a looong time. They don't really give that up until they have gotten pretty deep into recovery and therapy....they tend to blame the whole world (and especially the enabling parent) for everything!! Expect it. Do not expect gratitude...and dn't expect much co-operation. LOL...that comes much later in life with our kids....
If he were my son (with what I have learned, now)....I would offer only two options..treatment or the street. That puts the onus squarely on his shoulders and gives him a lot less wiggle room to manipulate and lead you down the bunny trail....
I caution you--"treatment" should not include being in your home or getting your assistance with the "comforts of life". He can go to a shelter or the Salvation Army, if necessary.....
hang tough mom. (sort of like Judge Judy)....
dandylion
expect him to stay angry and blaming of you for a looong time. They don't really give that up until they have gotten pretty deep into recovery and therapy....they tend to blame the whole world (and especially the enabling parent) for everything!! Expect it. Do not expect gratitude...and dn't expect much co-operation. LOL...that comes much later in life with our kids....
If he were my son (with what I have learned, now)....I would offer only two options..treatment or the street. That puts the onus squarely on his shoulders and gives him a lot less wiggle room to manipulate and lead you down the bunny trail....
I caution you--"treatment" should not include being in your home or getting your assistance with the "comforts of life". He can go to a shelter or the Salvation Army, if necessary.....
hang tough mom. (sort of like Judge Judy)....
dandylion
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Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 341
What you say Dandylion may be so, but for now he's in the hospital. Hospital psych called me to talk about how long to hold him, since they have a limit and were ready to release him.
I told them he threatened to stab me with the needle he had used to cut himself when we went to ER. Psych didn't know that and decided to extend hold. AS called me from there angry about that asking why. I calmly told him because he did that and it frightened me and that he needs help and to calm down while there. This alone is major progress on my part, because in the past I may have withheld this information so he could get released sooner.
But I want him to know that he cannot threaten me or anyone or threaten to hurt or kill himself without knowing there are consequences, like the ER psych ward.
I am also giving him the message he cannot stay with me and his only choice is the sober living that's paid up until the end of the month or the streets.
Psych dr also asked about sober living situation, since they needed to know if he has a place to go. AS told them he would go when released.
I told them I would check and get back to them, but haven't.
Now I am deciding whether or not to call them and when. Sober living is available, but haven't told them yet. I am in no hurry for AS to be released, or at least they can hold him entire 72 hours. (Not sure if more or not yet.) This will give him 3 days of detox as well and hopefully he might keep it together for a little bit more. AS has court date this Wednesday to get case dismissed by presenting letter. I am also enjoying the peace at this time, however short lived.
I told them he threatened to stab me with the needle he had used to cut himself when we went to ER. Psych didn't know that and decided to extend hold. AS called me from there angry about that asking why. I calmly told him because he did that and it frightened me and that he needs help and to calm down while there. This alone is major progress on my part, because in the past I may have withheld this information so he could get released sooner.
But I want him to know that he cannot threaten me or anyone or threaten to hurt or kill himself without knowing there are consequences, like the ER psych ward.
I am also giving him the message he cannot stay with me and his only choice is the sober living that's paid up until the end of the month or the streets.
Psych dr also asked about sober living situation, since they needed to know if he has a place to go. AS told them he would go when released.
I told them I would check and get back to them, but haven't.
Now I am deciding whether or not to call them and when. Sober living is available, but haven't told them yet. I am in no hurry for AS to be released, or at least they can hold him entire 72 hours. (Not sure if more or not yet.) This will give him 3 days of detox as well and hopefully he might keep it together for a little bit more. AS has court date this Wednesday to get case dismissed by presenting letter. I am also enjoying the peace at this time, however short lived.
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Thanks for responding.
I have checked on sober living and his bed is still there.
I'm struggling with whether or not to tell them today, since it may have a bearing on how long they keep him. Also trying to buy as much time as possible so he can have at least 3, or if poss, 4 days clean and will be a little more back to normal for court and to reconsider his options. (1st 3 days of heroin kick unbearable, then gets a little easier, but he's been using China white with Fentanyl, but cutting down. Still takes a while.)Maybe he'll learn a little something from this since he usually talks himself out of the hospital or gets me to give in and ask them to release him.
Do you think I should call hospital today to update them that sober living is still available until end of month?
I have checked on sober living and his bed is still there.
I'm struggling with whether or not to tell them today, since it may have a bearing on how long they keep him. Also trying to buy as much time as possible so he can have at least 3, or if poss, 4 days clean and will be a little more back to normal for court and to reconsider his options. (1st 3 days of heroin kick unbearable, then gets a little easier, but he's been using China white with Fentanyl, but cutting down. Still takes a while.)Maybe he'll learn a little something from this since he usually talks himself out of the hospital or gets me to give in and ask them to release him.
Do you think I should call hospital today to update them that sober living is still available until end of month?
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Response requested: Opinions on whether or not I should call hospital today and let them know sober living is available or wait until tomorrow?
Mgr at sober living also waiting for me to get back to him. Knows AS in hospital, but doesn't know why yet.
Mgr at sober living also waiting for me to get back to him. Knows AS in hospital, but doesn't know why yet.
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no. if HE want the sober living option, HE can take the necessary steps to make that happen. you are still trying to navigate HIS process.
Psych dr also asked about sober living situation, since they needed to know if he has a place to go. AS told them he would go when released.
it's time to LET GO.
Psych dr also asked about sober living situation, since they needed to know if he has a place to go. AS told them he would go when released.
it's time to LET GO.
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Anvilhead, not exactly. He did tell hospital about sober living place himself. they needed to verify with me and at time I didn't know if bed available. he can't make calls in hospital. The Dr. asked me to check for them. I didn't offer. Hospitals aren't allowed to release patients to the street and they had to know where to refer him is all.. If anything I may have been guilty of trying to keep him there longer. ( Maybe that's navigating, but just to keep him there for longer.Not like i'm trying to get him home here.) Jeeez!
So now they have the number and will call. Sober living still has bed avail. I am not picking him up at hospital. They will release tomorrow and give bus token.
Anvilhead, I know you're blunt and all, but I'm glad there are others who;s response is a little easier to take or I'd never come back here. Nonetheless, some response is better than none, even in your usual way.
So now they have the number and will call. Sober living still has bed avail. I am not picking him up at hospital. They will release tomorrow and give bus token.
Anvilhead, I know you're blunt and all, but I'm glad there are others who;s response is a little easier to take or I'd never come back here. Nonetheless, some response is better than none, even in your usual way.
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Anvilhead, guess it wasn't that bad. I've put it all out there. Now I will stay out of the way. I get what you meant, but sometimes we get put in the middle even when we don't ask to be. The rest is out of my hands.
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