Addiction v. Cancer
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Addiction v. Cancer
"Would you kick this person out if they had cancer?"
With "If he kept going to the corner store (or local dealer) for cancer I sure would."
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The person with cancer doesn't have a mental illness. Chronic addiction over a long term alters the brain chemistry, causing semi-permanent damage to the prefrontal cortex, and may be categorized as a psychological disorder (e.g. substance abuse disorder is listed in the DSM-V).
Addiction can be treated and reversed, we know that; however, most of the population in the U.S. does not know that cancer can be reversed in many cases, as can cardiovascular disease. Having been an avid listener of Dr. Gary Null's (clinical nutritionist) radio show for 25 years, I have been provided examples of people following an extremely strict nutritional and lifestyle regimen who have been able to reverse their STAGE 4 cancers (Eutrice Leid a fantastic example. Currently, over a year after her "death sentence" from her doctors, she is living well and cancer is down a stage or 2 and going to go away completely). [I myself have reversed atherosclerosis in my left carotid artery with diet/exercise/nutrition.] I see people with "physical" health conditions all the time who could be recovering but are only getting worse because they won't take their health in their own hands, educate themselves, and take the steps that they could take to heal. I feel the same compassion for them as I do those with mental illness and addiction. At the same time, I consider them reaching for the cookies, candy, and other junk at the corner store akin to drug addiction.
Regarding the criminal aspect, people commit crimes for all sorts of reasons, not just because of drugs.
With "If he kept going to the corner store (or local dealer) for cancer I sure would."
-----------
The person with cancer doesn't have a mental illness. Chronic addiction over a long term alters the brain chemistry, causing semi-permanent damage to the prefrontal cortex, and may be categorized as a psychological disorder (e.g. substance abuse disorder is listed in the DSM-V).
Addiction can be treated and reversed, we know that; however, most of the population in the U.S. does not know that cancer can be reversed in many cases, as can cardiovascular disease. Having been an avid listener of Dr. Gary Null's (clinical nutritionist) radio show for 25 years, I have been provided examples of people following an extremely strict nutritional and lifestyle regimen who have been able to reverse their STAGE 4 cancers (Eutrice Leid a fantastic example. Currently, over a year after her "death sentence" from her doctors, she is living well and cancer is down a stage or 2 and going to go away completely). [I myself have reversed atherosclerosis in my left carotid artery with diet/exercise/nutrition.] I see people with "physical" health conditions all the time who could be recovering but are only getting worse because they won't take their health in their own hands, educate themselves, and take the steps that they could take to heal. I feel the same compassion for them as I do those with mental illness and addiction. At the same time, I consider them reaching for the cookies, candy, and other junk at the corner store akin to drug addiction.
Regarding the criminal aspect, people commit crimes for all sorts of reasons, not just because of drugs.
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P.S. And you know what? Cancer, in particular, is such a great example of how perverse this culture is. Cancer, except the rare forms people are born with, is largely a self inflicted disease caused by unhealthy lifestyles. Yes, some people, including myself, have genetic predispositions to cancer, but that's all the genetic biomarkers are: predispositions. They only "express" when the person triggers them with unhealthy habits over time. Also, there are substances people have been exposed to over long periods of time that can cause the cancer, e.g. PFOA, herbicides with 2,4,D, etc. However, cancer is, by and large, a modern disease of "excess." For that reason, it provides quite a good analogy to drug addiction, in my book.
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I've dealt first hand with family member's addiction and family member's cancer. Both are extremely difficult and take a toll on you.
With addiction, an addict has the choice to get better. With cancer, it's similar. The doctor tells you things that you should do for example: go to all your appointment, eat a healthy diet, don't eat certain foods, maintain a healthy lifestyle. Well if the cancer patient doesn't follow the doctor's advice, there is not much you are able to do for them. I've dealt with cancer in my family. It's a lot of ups and downs. Chemo. Then cancer is gone. Person falls back to old unhealthy habits (junk food, no excersize, feeling sorry for themselves etc), cancer comes back, chemo, cancer gone, bad habits, cancer comes back. It's a vicious cycle. Unfortunately I would say, if someone has cancer and doesn't do the work to get better. Time for detachment. Same with addiction. It's a different story if someone is putting in all the effort and hard work but still passes away from cancer.
With addiction, an addict has the choice to get better. With cancer, it's similar. The doctor tells you things that you should do for example: go to all your appointment, eat a healthy diet, don't eat certain foods, maintain a healthy lifestyle. Well if the cancer patient doesn't follow the doctor's advice, there is not much you are able to do for them. I've dealt with cancer in my family. It's a lot of ups and downs. Chemo. Then cancer is gone. Person falls back to old unhealthy habits (junk food, no excersize, feeling sorry for themselves etc), cancer comes back, chemo, cancer gone, bad habits, cancer comes back. It's a vicious cycle. Unfortunately I would say, if someone has cancer and doesn't do the work to get better. Time for detachment. Same with addiction. It's a different story if someone is putting in all the effort and hard work but still passes away from cancer.
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Thank you for a thought-provoking thread.
I just wanted to respectfully point out that the person with cancer knows that they have cancer. The person with addiction of any kind, does not, because addiction is a type of mental illness that tells the person they don't have it.
I just wanted to respectfully point out that the person with cancer knows that they have cancer. The person with addiction of any kind, does not, because addiction is a type of mental illness that tells the person they don't have it.
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I have mixed feelings on this. I think ultimately for me it depends on what stage of addiction they are in, how much control they have over their own faculties.
As far as crime, certainly addiction and mental illness contribute to crime. I cannot feel sorry for someone who steals a wallet for the money to buy drugs. I do feel sorry for a man who recently stole food because he was hungry and had no other means to feed himself. There is a big difference, and people ultimately do know right from wrong. The victims of these types of crimes get lost in the shuffle right now it seems, and that does make me angry.
I have a family member who had a rare form of lung cancer. She is healthy. She did not make any contribution to this cancer, it was bad luck alone. Found by a fluke from a test for something else completely. She then had to have a hysterectomy b/c this sort of cancer loves to move to your lady parts apparently. So.....absolutely I feel for her. I do not think she had a choice. She is alive today b/c they found it early and removed her lung. She was not buying that cancer at the corner store, or through her own lifestyle, that is for sure.
So definitely there is a difference. Not all cancer can be controlled by lifestyle, and not all addicts can control their addiction. Some can, but choose not to. Just like some who are mentally ill take their meds and realize they have to for quality of life. Others are just out of control completely. There are varying degrees.
As far as crime, certainly addiction and mental illness contribute to crime. I cannot feel sorry for someone who steals a wallet for the money to buy drugs. I do feel sorry for a man who recently stole food because he was hungry and had no other means to feed himself. There is a big difference, and people ultimately do know right from wrong. The victims of these types of crimes get lost in the shuffle right now it seems, and that does make me angry.
I have a family member who had a rare form of lung cancer. She is healthy. She did not make any contribution to this cancer, it was bad luck alone. Found by a fluke from a test for something else completely. She then had to have a hysterectomy b/c this sort of cancer loves to move to your lady parts apparently. So.....absolutely I feel for her. I do not think she had a choice. She is alive today b/c they found it early and removed her lung. She was not buying that cancer at the corner store, or through her own lifestyle, that is for sure.
So definitely there is a difference. Not all cancer can be controlled by lifestyle, and not all addicts can control their addiction. Some can, but choose not to. Just like some who are mentally ill take their meds and realize they have to for quality of life. Others are just out of control completely. There are varying degrees.
Nature Girl
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Addiction isn't like cancer. Cancer isn't like diabetes. Diabetes isn't like alzheimers...all diseases with different causes, treatments and results.
It's not the disease we hate, it's the behaviour that strikes out when a person is addicted to drugs. The only way we can keep ourselves safe is to avoid the dangerous and unhealthy behaviour directed towards us, otherwise we put ourselves in danger. That isn't the case with other diseases. None of the other diseases, when experienced by others, represent any threat to me personally or my mental, physical and emotional health.
I am a cancer survivor, married to a cancer survivor and with an addicted son. Even my cancer isn't like my husband's cancer. To compare diseases serves no purpose from where I sit.
Hugs
It's not the disease we hate, it's the behaviour that strikes out when a person is addicted to drugs. The only way we can keep ourselves safe is to avoid the dangerous and unhealthy behaviour directed towards us, otherwise we put ourselves in danger. That isn't the case with other diseases. None of the other diseases, when experienced by others, represent any threat to me personally or my mental, physical and emotional health.
I am a cancer survivor, married to a cancer survivor and with an addicted son. Even my cancer isn't like my husband's cancer. To compare diseases serves no purpose from where I sit.
Hugs
Nature Girl
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Originally Posted by alterity 
However, cancer is, by and large, a modern disease of "excess." For that reason, it provides quite a good analogy to drug addiction, in my book.
I apologize if I am taking this thread too personally, for me it IS personal, but I am finished saying what I felt a need to say and will exit stage left.
Good luck to you.
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Research over the past decade has been veering away from the "cancer is unstoppable" theory to an immunological theory that is only starting to take a foothold.
Like every scientific field, it takes a decade or so for the advancements to trickle down, so the common concept of cancer continues to be that it is a death sentence and is neither preventable nor reversible. This simply is not true about all cancers.
Like every scientific field, it takes a decade or so for the advancements to trickle down, so the common concept of cancer continues to be that it is a death sentence and is neither preventable nor reversible. This simply is not true about all cancers.
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P.S. When I use the term "excess" I am referring to those immunocompromising factors that contribute to cancer, e.g. eating all pro-inflammatory foods and no anti-carcinogenic foods, obesity, drinking, smoking, etc.
http://www.cancer.gov/research/areas...-immune-system
http://www.cancer.gov/research/areas...-immune-system
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Sorry for the broken up posts, but ideas keep coming to me. Take a most basic example:
The loved one has lung cancer. Loved one, age 55, has smoked two to three packs of Marlboro Reds every day since age 17. There is no doubt that smoking caused the cancer. However, loved one continues to smoke, despite what doctors advise. You watch loved one get sicker and sicker, yet loved one does not change his habits at all.
Putting aside the fact that the smoking habit was an addiction, the reason I started this thread was because someone had posted (in another thread): "Would you kick this person out if they had cancer?" With "If he kept going to the corner store (or local dealer) for cancer I sure would."
Do you kick the smoking loved one with cancer out because he keeps going to the corner store for cancer, I mean cigarettes?
The loved one has lung cancer. Loved one, age 55, has smoked two to three packs of Marlboro Reds every day since age 17. There is no doubt that smoking caused the cancer. However, loved one continues to smoke, despite what doctors advise. You watch loved one get sicker and sicker, yet loved one does not change his habits at all.
Putting aside the fact that the smoking habit was an addiction, the reason I started this thread was because someone had posted (in another thread): "Would you kick this person out if they had cancer?" With "If he kept going to the corner store (or local dealer) for cancer I sure would."
Do you kick the smoking loved one with cancer out because he keeps going to the corner store for cancer, I mean cigarettes?
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I am absolutely for thinking of the addiction as a disease if it is helpful for the addict/alcoholic. However, it's almost the opposite for us codependents; Thinking they have a disease is more likely to make us act inappropriately in the situation . . . hmmm, I'm kinda thinking and typing at the same time. Not sure if I agree with what I just wrote.
Thoughts?
Thoughts?
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Originally Posted by Bekindalways
I am absolutely for thinking of the addiction as a disease if it is helpful for the addict/alcoholic. However, it's almost the opposite for us codependents; Thinking they have a disease is more likely to make us act inappropriately in the situation . . . hmmm, I'm kinda thinking and typing at the same time. Not sure if I agree with what I just wrote.
Thoughts?
Thoughts?
Drug Addiction Has No Mercy
Join Date: Mar 2005
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I am a recoverying addict and I respectfully disagree. In my opinion telling the addict that they have a disease is aiding in crippling them. It renders them helpless and does nothing but give the addict a piggyback excuse to use.
I do not consider myself to have a disease, but rather a choice.
I am clean and have been for many years. I choose everyday to maintain my recovery. It is a decision I make.
When I used I chose to do so and I chose to maintain that lifestyle. I could have gotten out if it anytime I chose to, but the truth of the matter is I didn't want to.
The times in the past when I relapsed I had a choice pick up the drug or to not. I chose to pick it up. I could have chose to reach out for a friend or gone to a meeting or tried to stop myself, but I didn't. I knew what I was doing was wrong, but I wanted to handle whatever I was dealing with at the time by using. Thankfully by the grace of God I don't belong in that lifestyle so it didn't keep me bound.
I started using and it was nothing more then partying to me. I liked how drugs and alcohol made me feel. The more I partied the more addicted I became. You don't just become addicted to the substances, but also to the people and the lifestyle, the chaos, the drama, the highs and the lows.
I had heard drugs were bad, alcohol was bad, but yet I chose them. I continued on my merry way getting deeper and deeper. There were times I wanted to stop using but couldn't. Not because I had a disease, but I was addicted. Quitting meant giving up my relationship, moving, having to get new friends, leaving a lifestyle I was familar with and having to get familar with a whole new way of living. It meant being responsible and dealing with life on lifes terms. The change was far to great for me to deal with and I was not ready to pay the price. Besides I liked getting high. Color me not done yet.
Granted I had bit off more than I could chew because when I tried to quit by my own strength. I had none. I was phsycially. mentally and emotionally addicted. It hurt every fiber of my being to withdrawl. I always went back to using to stop the pain of coming down. There isn't a single part of your being that doesn't scream out in agony when you try to stop. Addicts don't like pain so ..... we extinguish it with drugs and the cycle continues.
Side note:Trying to quit and choosing to quit are very different. Tring is something you do to see if you can. Chosing is a ... well a choice. You don't try... you do it.
My addiction stemmed from my bad choices. Choices I made. I am accountable for those choices. When pain of my addiction exceeded the pain of withdrawl and the cost of change. I chose to get clean.
Today I walk in that choice. Nine and a half years clean and sober with no relapses.
I made enough excuses for my addiction and I thank God that I wasn't handed the idea that I had a disease because if I had been I'm not sure I'd be clean today.
Again... I feel that telling an addict they have a disease is a disservice and only aids in crippling them.
Just my two cents
Passion
I do not consider myself to have a disease, but rather a choice.
I am clean and have been for many years. I choose everyday to maintain my recovery. It is a decision I make.
When I used I chose to do so and I chose to maintain that lifestyle. I could have gotten out if it anytime I chose to, but the truth of the matter is I didn't want to.
The times in the past when I relapsed I had a choice pick up the drug or to not. I chose to pick it up. I could have chose to reach out for a friend or gone to a meeting or tried to stop myself, but I didn't. I knew what I was doing was wrong, but I wanted to handle whatever I was dealing with at the time by using. Thankfully by the grace of God I don't belong in that lifestyle so it didn't keep me bound.
I started using and it was nothing more then partying to me. I liked how drugs and alcohol made me feel. The more I partied the more addicted I became. You don't just become addicted to the substances, but also to the people and the lifestyle, the chaos, the drama, the highs and the lows.
I had heard drugs were bad, alcohol was bad, but yet I chose them. I continued on my merry way getting deeper and deeper. There were times I wanted to stop using but couldn't. Not because I had a disease, but I was addicted. Quitting meant giving up my relationship, moving, having to get new friends, leaving a lifestyle I was familar with and having to get familar with a whole new way of living. It meant being responsible and dealing with life on lifes terms. The change was far to great for me to deal with and I was not ready to pay the price. Besides I liked getting high. Color me not done yet.
Granted I had bit off more than I could chew because when I tried to quit by my own strength. I had none. I was phsycially. mentally and emotionally addicted. It hurt every fiber of my being to withdrawl. I always went back to using to stop the pain of coming down. There isn't a single part of your being that doesn't scream out in agony when you try to stop. Addicts don't like pain so ..... we extinguish it with drugs and the cycle continues.
Side note:Trying to quit and choosing to quit are very different. Tring is something you do to see if you can. Chosing is a ... well a choice. You don't try... you do it.
My addiction stemmed from my bad choices. Choices I made. I am accountable for those choices. When pain of my addiction exceeded the pain of withdrawl and the cost of change. I chose to get clean.
Today I walk in that choice. Nine and a half years clean and sober with no relapses.
I made enough excuses for my addiction and I thank God that I wasn't handed the idea that I had a disease because if I had been I'm not sure I'd be clean today.
Again... I feel that telling an addict they have a disease is a disservice and only aids in crippling them.
Just my two cents
Passion
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Join Date: Mar 2016
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There are so many diseases out there. Cancer could be mild to severe (skin cancer to phase 3 ovarian cancer). I believe addiction could be mild to severe. There are those who get addicted to a wide slew of harmful substances and behaviours (gambling, sex, alcohol and drugs everyday) and then there are those who are only addicted to binging alcohol too much once a month. We are all unique.
There are those who have cancer, make changes to their lifestyle, remains positive. And then there are those who have cancer, continues to smoke 2 packs a day, is negative and expects those around them to sulk in negativity with them. Unfortunately if it's the latter I would say that you can't help and support someone who can't help themselves. I've witnessed this first hand. They eventually passed away but all the years of family members helping and supporting only turned to resentment, bitterness, frustration etc. Same goes for addiction.
There are those who have cancer, make changes to their lifestyle, remains positive. And then there are those who have cancer, continues to smoke 2 packs a day, is negative and expects those around them to sulk in negativity with them. Unfortunately if it's the latter I would say that you can't help and support someone who can't help themselves. I've witnessed this first hand. They eventually passed away but all the years of family members helping and supporting only turned to resentment, bitterness, frustration etc. Same goes for addiction.
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Originally Posted by nytepassion
I am a recoverying addict and I respectfully disagree. In my opinion telling the addict that they have a disease is aiding in crippling them. It renders them helpless and does nothing but give the addict a piggyback excuse to use. I do not consider myself to have a disease, but rather a choice. I am clean and have been for many years. I choose everyday to maintain my recovery. It is a decision I make. When I used I chose to do so and I chose to maintain that lifestyle. I could have gotten out if it anytime I chose to, but the truth of the matter is I didn't want to. The times in the past when I relapsed I had a choice pick up the drug or to not. I chose to pick it up. I could have chose to reach out for a friend or gone to a meeting or tried to stop myself, but I didn't. I knew what I was doing was wrong, but I wanted to handle whatever I was dealing with at the time by using. Thankfully by the grace of God I don't belong in that lifestyle so it didn't keep me bound. I started using and it was nothing more then partying to me. I liked how drugs and alcohol made me feel. The more I partied the more addicted I became. You don't just become addicted to the substances, but also to the people and the lifestyle, the chaos, the drama, the highs and the lows. I had heard drugs were bad, alcohol was bad, but yet I chose them. I continued on my merry way getting deeper and deeper. There were times I wanted to stop using but couldn't. Not because I had a disease, but I was addicted. Quitting meant giving up my relationship, moving, having to get new friends, leaving a lifestyle I was familar with and having to get familar with a whole new way of living. It meant being responsible and dealing with life on lifes terms. The change was far to great for me to deal with and I was not ready to pay the price. Besides I liked getting high. Color me not done yet. Granted I had bit off more than I could chew because when I tried to quit by my own strength. I had none. I was phsycially. mentally and emotionally addicted. It hurt every fiber of my being to withdrawl. I always went back to using to stop the pain of coming down. There isn't a single part of your being that doesn't scream out in agony when you try to stop. Addicts don't like pain so ..... we extinguish it with drugs and the cycle continues. Side note:Trying to quit and choosing to quit are very different. Tring is something you do to see if you can. Chosing is a ... well a choice. You don't try... you do it. My addiction stemmed from my bad choices. Choices I made. I am accountable for those choices. When pain of my addiction exceeded the pain of withdrawl and the cost of change. I chose to get clean. Today I walk in that choice. Nine and a half years clean and sober with no relapses. I made enough excuses for my addiction and I thank God that I wasn't handed the idea that I had a disease because if I had been I'm not sure I'd be clean today. Again... I feel that telling an addict they have a disease is a disservice and only aids in crippling them. Just my two cents Passion
Life Health Prosperity
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You find cancer in most mammalian species. I wouldn't kick a person out for having cancer, however most people with cancer wouldn't steal my underwear and every thing else I had but numerous addicts did. 
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Originally Posted by nytepassion
I am a recoverying addict and I respectfully disagree. In my opinion telling the addict that they have a disease is aiding in crippling them. It renders them helpless and does nothing but give the addict a piggyback excuse to use.
I do not consider myself to have a disease, but rather a choice.
I do not consider myself to have a disease, but rather a choice.
Edit: Oops. My apologies. I just realized this is in the Substance Abuse forum. I thought it was in the Alcoholism forum. I have no experience with addiction to substance abuse.
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I could go on a loooong tangent about diseases as a result of poor lifestyle choices. I get very frustrated with family members who criticize my aunt and I (practically the only members of the family who make a conscious effort to eat healthy and exercise) for being "too extreme", "too picky", or "obsessive". If we were to comment on their choices, all hell would break loose. But they go on and on. And they're all very sick- but they refuse to admit that we're onto something. They're still buying the "everything is fine in moderation" shtick. We just happen to have the good genes. It's not that we forego the cheesecake and hot dogs- it's our good genes. And we sit there listening to their latest medical fiascos and can't say a word- but there's no denying that they brought at least some of these issues on themselves. I mean, if they had lung cancer we could most certainly get away with saying, "stop smoking". But anything to do with food is just so darn touchy. And then I bring my kids around and they want to feed them all the same junk that's making them sick. And I can't even get away with, "Wait until after dinner," or "I think they've had enough cake, cookies and ice cream," because it's so very extreme, you know.
Anyway, as you can see, I agree with much of what's been said.
Anyway, as you can see, I agree with much of what's been said.
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