I Need to Realize I Am No Longer a Friend

Old 02-29-2016, 07:30 PM
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I Need to Realize I Am No Longer a Friend

I don't know why I still want to be friends with someone who hates me.

Four months now. I thought his anger would blow over by Christmas and we would get back together, the way true friends do

But it is the end of February, and nothing.

I tell myself to get over him but the problem is I still don't want to give up on him. I saw a pic of him the other day, with a couple of his buddies, one of whom was one of his actively-using buddies. He looks great in the pic, on the outside, but he always looks great on the outside. It made me realize I have no idea if he's clean and happy or using and "happy."

And it doesn't matter whether I can tell or not. I don't matter to him anymore. I still don't get it. I don't get how you can just dump your best friend but it happens all the time, people even dump their spouses. Love turns to hate.

But four months of this and I cannot stop caring. I try. I really do try. But I can't do it.

My life is full of can'ts these days and he was one of the friends who actually helped me to be able to do some things -- he was a friend, with him I could do some things I couldn't do on my own or with anyone else. Good things.

Now, in addition to all the other things I can't do, I can't get past this.
I want to. I try. But I can't.

And that's starting to scare me. It's like a wild animal that's always there, ready to jump out and attack me. And I can't get away from it.
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Old 02-29-2016, 09:15 PM
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Firesong: I am sure he does not hate you, girl! Why assume worst case scenario? He is an addict. He is ill. He is sick, honey...his mind might be gone and it's all he can do to carry on himself, let alone be the type of friend that you really need. It's so important that you realize YOUR needs are what is most important here and doing what is best for your heart/mind/soul/body. He is a heroin addict in recovery. Do you know what you would be up against should you resume this friendship? It's not easy being with any addict and even if he IS in recovery, it's not a cake walk. I have no idea why he started using heroin in the first place, but it takes a lot of TIME to get to the bottom of the ISSUES and get your head straightened out. I know that while he is not really there for you your need for HIS friendship is not being met. Maybe he feels you are that one who hates him because of his addiction, ya know? A lot of addicts sort of assume no one wants anything to do with them anymore; that they are "fallen" and are now nothing but "dirt" because of their addiction. Just read around these boards and see all the posts here that condemn addicts. He probably thinks you are the one who no longer wants to be his friend, and so he has stayed away from you because it hurts him too much to be around you. I hope it will be okay for you...but, please, just sort of entertain the thought that because there has been very little or no communication, you really don't know what's going on with him or whether he wants to be your friend or not. Maybe he's confused.
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Old 02-29-2016, 10:32 PM
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Guess you haven't read any of my posts about him over the past 4 months.

He is the one who ended the friendship. He got very paranoid that someone was tapping his phone and listening in on our calls, and even though he could say anything he wanted to on the phone, the one time I said one word that might have been misconstrued if overheard he blew up at me. More than once.

And no one was listening in; he is just paranoid.

Then he accused me of much worse things that I have never done, that he never even brought up in the years of our friendship, he just grabbed it out of the blue to have some "reason" to attack me and accuse me of something he said disgusted him. He just made it up. He told me never to contact him again, or his family.

In the very beginning he asked me if I was disappointed in him and I said no. I was with him, had his back, from day 1, as he had mine. Then he gets clean, or at least quits using, and within a year he no longer needs me so he dumps me with accusations of things I never did, never even thought of doing. Apparently he'd never bothered to get to know me at all, because I didn't matter enough for him to think I was worth getting to know. He just found me useful (and I don't mean for sex).

Oh, yeah, he told me he loved me.

I don't think he ever did. Or if he did, I don't know what devil got into him after he quit using and turned my friend into a monster and my memories into nightmares.
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Old 02-29-2016, 11:55 PM
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Fire song:why the animosity - just trying to help. If he is so bad as you say hon, why can't you give this up? You say you can't do without him? Why? What is it that keeps you holding on?
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Old 03-01-2016, 12:03 AM
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I'm sorry he treated you like that.
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Old 03-01-2016, 04:57 AM
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it takes time to grieve a close friendship, Firesong. peace.
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Old 03-01-2016, 09:45 AM
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Hey Firesong...
I completely understand where you're at and what you're going through. I went through something really, really similar. And I had, and am having (although it's getting easier), a hard time getting past it. It's been 5 months over here (although we're on week 3 of no contact)

Here's what I've learned; you can take it or leave it, but know that it's meant in the most loving of ways.

1. It doesn't help to think that he never loved you. Bottom line? He's not capable of loving anything other than drugs and partying right now. Do yourself a favor and read the sticky 'What addicts do.'

2. I recently had a similar situation with a picture that popped up on social media. My AXBF looked happy as well. And I had the same thought. Bottom line? You're not gonna know. And truthfully, kid gloves off, it doesn't matter. Because unless 'someone who's not solid in their recovery' is on your list of qualities you look for in a person, he's not the person you knew when he was clean. (But, from me to you, in all probability, and ESPECIALLY with heroin, he's not clean. Chemically, neurologically, it doesn't work that way. And even if he's not back on dope and is using other substances "so he doesn't use dope", then he's a ticking time bomb.)

3. Does he hate you? Also no. Likely not. But remember, you are a living, breathing reminder (who is fully capable of offering opinions contrary to the ones he probably wants to hear) of the person that he knows he can be. But is choosing not to be. And even if you're in the camp that believes that addiction is a disease and he has no control, then he is choosing not to manage his disease. That's his choice. I am learning (for my own life) that our current realities are a result of the choices that we've made. Same. Goes. For. Him.
There's also probably a lot lot LOT of shame going on for him.

I have found that dealing with a breakup of any kind with an addict is doubly hard. It's not like the person is just a jerk. You're dealing with someone YOU NEVER KNEW--except they look a lot like the person you did know. It's like being in the twilight zone. And then you start thinking you're crazy (been there).
You're not.

But protect yourself from seeing things like that: block him on social media. Or if you can't bring yourself to do that(which I fully understand), hide him. And his friends. (Yes, it makes your timeline lonely...but you know what? Better than feeling this way)

When I first started this process, everyone said "Make this about YOU" and I was like, "wth does that even MEAN? Can't you all see this beautiful man is self destructing in front of your eyeballs?" I couldn't keep food down for four weeks. I lost 20 lbs. I had to zzzQuil myself to sleep for longer than "recommended." I got a dog (in part to replace his dog who lived here with him--and me), but also so I would have someone to get up and out for. It was so so SO hard.
And then slowly (and with the help of everyone here, and Naranon, and a therapist), I began to realize how dysfunctional his behavior was. And that even though I cared deeply, the actual reason behind his poor behavior didn't matter. I don't want someone who says mean things to me. I don't want someone who does the things he did to me. And that's leaving behind the fact that I don't want someone who uses.

Maybe for today(don't worry about longer than that), try to stop expecting him to behave like the clean, healthy version that you knew. Sadly, that's not the world you live in now. (I know how hard that is. I had to do it too) But, when you stop expecting him to behave that way, you also have the added benefit of not being disappointed, hurt, and angry when he doesn't.

You're welcome to PM me too, if you want.
(Biiiiiiig hug)
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Old 03-01-2016, 11:26 AM
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firesong, i've always sensed that you have WAY more feelings than JUST friendship for this person, but were willing to be in the role of FRIEND in order to be around him. there is little more frustrating than unrequited love. now i could be way off base - wouldn't be the first time!!! but you might want to take time to honestly examine how YOU feel so that you can then deal with that. trying to figure out what is going on his head, or anyone else's is a big waste of time. it's hard enough getting clarity on our own thoughts.......

be honest with yourself, and be kind to yourself
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Old 03-01-2016, 11:27 AM
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Oh. Well. Maybe I misread. I didn't go back and look at all the previous posts.
But I can also understand how jarring that might feel. My AXBF was a lot "edgier" when he was clean as well (nothin' there to dull the edginess). He was never ever mean to me when he was clean, but a lot of our then coworkers found him to be so. Unsurprisingly, they all find him to be really cool and nice now that he's using again. That was pretty jarring for me as well, although I suppose I experienced it in reverse.

But dealing with someone you don't know is hard. Either way you look at it. I don't know the particulars of this relationship, obviously. You can want your friend back without the complication of addiction for them. Sometimes it's hard to realize that you cannot divorce the person's behavior and the drugs (i.e. The Nice Dude does heroin--the nice dude part is great, the heroin part not so much, The Mean Dude is clean and likely mean because he's struggling--The clean part is good, but the struggling and the mean is no good). I understand that. It was hard for me too (although I experienced it backwards)

And you are correct, he may see her as a "part of his life with addiction" and just wants to cut all ties to that. And you are also correct in that any relationship with an addict is no cake walk.

Last edited by cece1960; 03-02-2016 at 08:01 AM.
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Old 03-01-2016, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Fior View Post
Oh. Well. Maybe I misread. I didn't go back and look at all the previous posts.
But I can also understand how jarring that might feel. My AXBF was a lot "edgier" when he was clean as well (nothin' there to dull the edginess). He was never ever mean to me when he was clean, but a lot of our then coworkers found him to be so. Unsurprisingly, they all find him to be really cool and nice now that he's using again. That was pretty jarring for me as well, although I suppose I experienced it in reverse.

But dealing with someone you don't know is hard. Either way you look at it. I don't know the particulars of this relationship, obviously. You can want your friend back without the complication of addiction for them. Sometimes it's hard to realize that you cannot divorce the person's behavior and the drugs (i.e. The Nice Dude does heroin--the nice dude part is great, the heroin part not so much, The Mean Dude is clean and likely mean because he's struggling--The clean part is good, but the struggling and the mean is no good). I understand that. It was hard for me too (although I experienced it backwards)

And you are correct, he may see her as a "part of his life with addiction" and just wants to cut all ties to that. And you are also correct in that any relationship with an addict is no cake walk.
Thanks for your post Fior! Makes sense what you've posted. Yes, some people are more mellow when they're using and more edgy when they're not. It takes AWHILE being clean before moods stabilize.

I have serious co-dependent issues that I've been working on for decades. It's a life long process. I try so hard not to be an enabler. But I don't want to be mean in how I do that. It can be a fine line at times. Tough love and all that jazz.

My first "qualifier" was my DAD. As a kid, I preferred the drinking dad. He was a happy drunk. He was more "mean" when he was sober. He wasn't mean all the time, but he DID have a mean streak in him and could be very hard/tough and had a temper. When he was drinking he was way more fun to be around; things didn't get to him so much and he generally had a big smile on his face and showed us more tender love. (It was hard for him to show love sometimes, but that got better and better as he got older and mellowed out as a sober person.) He eventually did mellow out without using alcohol.

So, yeah, addictions can produce like two different types of people you are dealing with and people do change when they sober up.
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Old 03-01-2016, 12:00 PM
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My life is full of can'ts these days and he was one of the friends who actually helped me to be able to do some things -- he was a friend, with him I could do some things I couldn't do on my own or with anyone else. Good things.

Like what kind of things did you enjoy doing that now today, you feel you could only do with him?

We seem to convince ourselves that only the “dead plant” we continue to water in our minds, somehow is our ONLY salvation to happiness………………..so NOT true.
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Old 03-01-2016, 01:57 PM
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And it doesn't matter whether I can tell or not. I don't matter to him anymore. I still don't get it. I don't get how you can just dump your best friend but it happens all the time, people even dump their spouses. Love turns to hate.
Because he's an addict. That's what addicts do. It's not a function of love nor hate. It's a function of the fact that his eyes currently face one direction: inward. If you were willing to enable him in his day-to-day life, he'd have a use for you. But you're not doing that, and in response, he booted you to the curb. It happens all the time, and I'm sorry that you're on the receiving end of it.

When people leave us, either voluntarily or involuntarily, we're naturally going to grieve. And I truly believe in some cases, that grieving never really stops. We simply adapt to a new way of living without that person. I can tell you from experience, Firesong, that my life since my AXGF kicked me to the curb has been a hell of a lot better than it was when she was in the picture. And the reason is because I chose to make it that way.

Grieve for as long as you need to. But make sure you're going forward in your own life while you do. Stay strong.
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Old 03-01-2016, 01:58 PM
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I do not want this friend the way he was when he was using.

I "thought" that when he stopped using he would feel better. He would be more positive about his life. He would be more relaxed, and happier. He would have more money! (which he wanted to have). I did not know that quitting would make him more paranoid, stressed out, and easily angered. I thought he would be proud of himself. I told him I was proud of him. I thought that we would be able to spend more time together and do more things together because he would have a budget for just good clean fun activities.

He has not, to my knowledge, been hanging out with any sort of support group or mentor or anyone like that. He never participated in any of the group meetings, just saw his therapist, got his dose, went to work. He did not have any friends to hang out with except me, and then he dumped me. I was neither a using buddy nor a judge who condemned him for his lifestyle.

He was like my brother. That is how we talked about it. I was "family" to him. Yes, I was in love with him for about 2 1/2 hours one spring evening but when I got over that I was able to relax and enjoy just being friends with none of the stress and ups and downs of a romantic relationship. And he never knew about the 2 1/2 hours because we weren't together.

So yes. I miss the friend I enjoyed hanging out with. I do not miss knowing he was out using, worrying about him, wondering if he was safe. He was using for a LONG time before I ever met him. When he was using (when he wasn't rightly being paranoid and scared) he looked great, he felt good, he dressed well, he could be happy and a lot of fun. That is the friend I miss. I never saw him actually "using" so all I knew was the smart, funny, fun, interesting friend.

The day he got so angry at me, and the day he accused me of horrible things I never did, were almost exactly a year (to the day) after he started going to the clinic to get off the illegal drug and get on one that is legal and that had worked for him in the past.

That is as plain as I know how to make it.



Thank you again for your kindness and your post.

Last edited by cece1960; 03-02-2016 at 07:49 AM.
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Old 03-01-2016, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by zoso77 View Post
Because he's an addict. That's what addicts do. It's not a function of love nor hate. It's a function of the fact that his eyes currently face one direction: inward. If you were willing to enable him in his day-to-day life, he'd have a use for you. But you're not doing that, and in response, he booted you to the curb. It happens all the time, and I'm sorry that you're on the receiving end of it.

When people leave us, either voluntarily or involuntarily, we're naturally going to grieve. And I truly believe in some cases, that grieving never really stops. We simply adapt to a new way of living without that person. I can tell you from experience, Firesong, that my life since my AXGF kicked me to the curb has been a hell of a lot better than it was when she was in the picture. And the reason is because I chose to make it that way.

Grieve for as long as you need to. But make sure you're going forward in your own life while you do. Stay strong.
Thanks.

It was like he was my brother. My friends who never knew about him said just forget about him. But people don't forget brothers, or sisters, or cousins or parents or children. He and I could talk about anything.
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Old 03-01-2016, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by atalose View Post
Like what kind of things did you enjoy doing that now today, you feel you could only do with him?
Go on vacations together. To the mountains, to the lake, just getaways. I don't have any other friends to do that with. They go on vacations with their families, or to events I can't afford (and am not really interested in anyway). The friends where I live have no money to go anywhere. Just getting away for a day of shopping with them is all stress and no fun. They are very stressed-out people. With him it was fun. He was never stressed out. He would take me out to dinner sometimes, or lunch. Or we would just hang out together, watching TV, falling asleep on the couch.
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Old 03-01-2016, 02:09 PM
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My doctor has upped my BP meds because of my anxiety and sadness over this guy. He has put me on lorazepam to help control my stress in order to help the BP. The lorazepam lets me not think. It lets things not matter to me, so I can look at them and not have to think about them. It is great stuff and I wish I could take it 3x a day but it is addictive and I don't want to go there. I am so used to functioning while anxious, and managing in the middle of a panic attack that the feeling the lorazepam gives me is so calm and don't-give-a-damn that I wish I could take it all the time, but I don't want to get hooked on. it. It is a benzo, and thanks to this friend of mine I know a lot about them!
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Old 03-01-2016, 09:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Fior View Post
Hey Firesong...
I completely understand where you're at and what you're going through. I went through something really, really similar. And I had, and am having (although it's getting easier), a hard time getting past it. It's been 5 months over here (although we're on week 3 of no contact)

Here's what I've learned; you can take it or leave it, but know that it's meant in the most loving of ways.

1. It doesn't help to think that he never loved you. Bottom line? He's not capable of loving anything other than drugs and partying right now. Do yourself a favor and read the sticky 'What addicts do.'

2. I recently had a similar situation with a picture that popped up on social media. My AXBF looked happy as well. And I had the same thought. Bottom line? You're not gonna know. And truthfully, kid gloves off, it doesn't matter. Because unless 'someone who's not solid in their recovery' is on your list of qualities you look for in a person, he's not the person you knew when he was clean. (But, from me to you, in all probability, and ESPECIALLY with heroin, he's not clean. Chemically, neurologically, it doesn't work that way. And even if he's not back on dope and is using other substances "so he doesn't use dope", then he's a ticking time bomb.)

3. Does he hate you? Also no. Likely not. But remember, you are a living, breathing reminder (who is fully capable of offering opinions contrary to the ones he probably wants to hear) of the person that he knows he can be. But is choosing not to be. And even if you're in the camp that believes that addiction is a disease and he has no control, then he is choosing not to manage his disease. That's his choice. I am learning (for my own life) that our current realities are a result of the choices that we've made. Same. Goes. For. Him.
There's also probably a lot lot LOT of shame going on for him.

I have found that dealing with a breakup of any kind with an addict is doubly hard. It's not like the person is just a jerk. You're dealing with someone YOU NEVER KNEW--except they look a lot like the person you did know. It's like being in the twilight zone. And then you start thinking you're crazy (been there).
You're not.

But protect yourself from seeing things like that: block him on social media. Or if you can't bring yourself to do that(which I fully understand), hide him. And his friends. (Yes, it makes your timeline lonely...but you know what? Better than feeling this way)

When I first started this process, everyone said "Make this about YOU" and I was like, "wth does that even MEAN? Can't you all see this beautiful man is self destructing in front of your eyeballs?" I couldn't keep food down for four weeks. I lost 20 lbs. I had to zzzQuil myself to sleep for longer than "recommended." I got a dog (in part to replace his dog who lived here with him--and me), but also so I would have someone to get up and out for. It was so so SO hard.
And then slowly (and with the help of everyone here, and Naranon, and a therapist), I began to realize how dysfunctional his behavior was. And that even though I cared deeply, the actual reason behind his poor behavior didn't matter. I don't want someone who says mean things to me. I don't want someone who does the things he did to me. And that's leaving behind the fact that I don't want someone who uses.

Maybe for today(don't worry about longer than that), try to stop expecting him to behave like the clean, healthy version that you knew. Sadly, that's not the world you live in now. (I know how hard that is. I had to do it too) But, when you stop expecting him to behave that way, you also have the added benefit of not being disappointed, hurt, and angry when he doesn't.

You're welcome to PM me too, if you want.
(Biiiiiiig hug)
Thank you so much, Fior. For your words and the hug.

It helps to know that you know what this is like. I guess one of the reasons it hurts so much is that we really were just friends.

OK, I just deleted two long paragraphs in which I went into a lot more detail than I should go into here. More than anyone would want to read or needs to see.

It's just that I don't really have a life now. All the BP meds and the lorazepam make me so tired and sleepy that I don't have energy to go do anything, and I don't have anyone to do anything with anyway. I don't even have a dog to walk. I have a cat but cats don't go for walks. Well, some do. Not this one.

The lorazepam makes me not care so much about missing this guy. It also makes me not care enough to try to figure out places to go and things to do.

Life is just so boring without him.
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Old 03-02-2016, 07:15 AM
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It’s very hard losing anyone we’ve grown close and comfortable with. I am sorry you lost your friend and must say it is actually him who has the greater loss here, he’s lost you a great friend.

In the beginning of my journey to try and understand addiction the words baffling, cunning and powerful were words I would read and see often. The further along I went on my journey the more I began to understand those words and make some kind of logic out of the illogical and depersonalize it all. Heart still hurt, no lying there, but I was able to begin my own recovery from loving an addict.

It takes a commitment to oneself to want to go from “victim” filled with “I can’t” to a “survivor” filled with “I can”, “I will” and “I have hope”.

It was always easier for me to remain in the victim role because it was familiar and a sad place I became comfortable in. Being a survivor was faced with difficult decisions, decisions that had me doubting myself and feeling guilty about. Decisions to change my life, people in it and how I respond to unacceptable behavior from family, friends and co-workers were and are truly the best choices I’ve made so far while walking on this earth one day at a time.

I like this quote by Rose Kennedy……

It has been said, time heals all wounds, I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens. But it is never gone.
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Old 03-02-2016, 12:28 PM
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Thank you, atalose, for your thoughtful words and your story.

Originally posted by atalose:

It’s very hard losing anyone we’ve grown close and comfortable with. I am sorry you lost your friend and must say it is actually him who has the greater loss here, he’s lost you a great friend.
You said it well. "Close and comfortable" was exactly what it was. Sitting on the sofa with our feet up watching TV with the cat, his or mine, depending on where we were. Never cuddling, but close like buddies. Close in heart and mind. Very comfortable.

Unfortunately after he quit using I wasn't as comfortable with him, partly because I saw him so seldom that being together was like having begin all over again feeling so much at home with him, and then he was either in a bad mood or tired or VERY irritable. I learned 99 buttons not to touch, then I'd push one I didn't even know was there, and he'd explode. Not physically, thank God, but in words. Or sulks.

I really appreciate that you said he has suffered the greater loss, losing me. I don't know about that, , but I will say I think he's the one missing out too. He said he enjoyed being with me, when he was with me he could relax and just be himself and be honest. That to me was a compliment and I never betrayed that. Why would I want to? I wanted what was best for him. For me, I wanted to be with him, so that was best for me. When he was feeling good and being nice.

The last thing he wrote on that ugly note he sent me at New Year's was that he would always love me and he missed his friend. The first part just made no sense to me, because saying what he said to me was not loving at all. The second part made me think, "Well, hey, dude, if you miss me you know what to do about it."

But after the first time he sent me such an ugly note, last fall, I got scared because he was making absolutely no sense and I didn't want to deal with the unpredictably of his anger anymore, so I told him not to call me or text me anymore. Just leave me alone.

I'd give anything if I could take those words back, because knowing him I know how much they must have hurt him. And being hurt, he would be very angry. Very defensive.

But I said them because I couldn't deal with any more attacks of anger out of the blue.

I also like your Rose Kennedy quote. She understood stuff too.
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Old 03-02-2016, 01:20 PM
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Often around here we hear the A’s are like Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde, duel personalities a using personality and a non- using personality. And at times both personalities come out without a moment’s notice. They jump from one to the other in a matter of 30 seconds causing chaos and wreaking havoc on the lives of those around them. A true mental illness erupting like a volcano when feeding it drugs and alcohol.

They are not at peace when not using and they are not at peace when they are. Those bad moods, feeling so tired and irritable become their norm and using drugs/alcohol becomes their go to solution for it.

My ex was clean/sober for 4 years when I met him. He was working a very strong program and his whole life was going in a positive direction. Good job, great pay, nice apartment new vehicle and a solid relationship. He remained that way for another 4 years but the pull the draw of addiction became greater than his will/commitment to remain clean/sober.

And that’s the thing most people including me never fully understood………….that draw to use will always be there no matter how much clean time or how great anyone’s life is going……they will always be one bad decision away from using……..and for the rest of their lives.


That feeling you had, the one where you learned 99 buttons not to push, then it was 100 that walking on egg shells feeling becomes a way of life when loving or living with an addict. They can be family, friends, lovers, spouses the relationship will always be based around THEIR moods, THEIR feelings, THEIR wants…..it’s really not fair nor is it a healthy kind of relationship to have with someone.

But WE feel obligated to them because they are our family or our friends. We then feel guilt when we stick up for ourselves and our feelings and wants. We feel guilt if we don’t want to be around them and tolerate their behaviors. We feel fear for them if we make the choice to do the right thing for ourselves by disengaging in the relationship, stepping back and away from their chaos. We convince ourselves that without us they’d really be in worse off shape but usually that thinking only keeps us hostage.

FOG
F=fear
O=obligation
G = guilt

Once we work through all of those we come out on the side of freedom and a new road towards happiness.

You are going to be fine, this relationship is one of those hard hardened life lessons that none of us wish we have to learn but once we do we become grateful with a new positive outlook on life.
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