AnonWife

I somehow lost my reply and ended up on a link to another site. I will come back tomorrow.

Im a little confused about some views of addiction but I do appreciate everyones concern and it wont hurt me to hear different opinions.

I dont view addiction very different than other behabioral problems, or emotional/mental disorders and I guess Id like to ask if you view it different, why, and do you think it should be treated differently by you?

AnonWife

The approach is fine and healthy. Its not very difficult to see the habits of your spouse, we all have routines we follow. its not work or particularly stressful.
I have a question on the comment about not living with an active addict. Do you really mean not living with the behaviors associated? What if the behaviors are more where a person withdraws and isolates?
Or is this meant to be a negative reinforcer to the addict? Plus its not simple to remove a husband from a home unless you are ready and willing to give up on a marriage. Or I am having trouble wrapping my mind around it at least.

I dont want to say he's not that bad, but reading some posts here it makes him seem not as bad. But its not good, and he's in trouble with his addiction and its affecting our home so I think its good Im realizing it at an earlier stage possibly?

Many of your comments are thought provoking and make me question my own thought process, and its hard but maybe good for me. Thank you.

biminiblue

The difference with mental disorders and addiction is that addiction will continue to progress until the addict is stealing, lying, disappearing, and eventually, dead - and it is a biological process that cannot be "fixed" by cutting back. The treatment is to stop using the substance THEN learn to deal with the problem.

At some point your husband will likely resort to street drugs when his prescriptions become hard to get and he is taking too much to afford to buy legally. Street drugs are really dangerous since you have no idea what is in them. This is just the way junkies go - first it's a prescription, then street drugs. Unfortunately, most pain pill addicts turn to heroin at some point. Heroin is easy to find, and it's cheap, compared to pain pills. It is a predictable progression. It's just a matter of time. Addicts don't learn to "cut back." They just learn to hide it better. I wouldn't be surprised if he has already started to make that switch. Vets have access to other vets and when it comes to pain management, vets know who to contact. If you haven't found any financial issues around this yet, you will.

I would suggest reading through this link in the alcoholism section. You can substitute opiates for alcohol since they hit the same receptors in the brain and create the same feedback loop. This is a physiological process that WILL occur if he continues to use, regardless of good intentions.

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...influence.html

AnonWife

But would you respond to addiction differently when it happens in your family compared to another problem where its both mental and physical?
No Im sure he hasnt switched. His access is solid right now.

biminiblue

No, I would not treat it differently.

There is treatment for mental disorders. There is treatment for addiction.

If my family member were going to treatment and not disrupting the home, I would not treat it differently. There is some grey area, but not a lot of wiggle room for an addict because if you give him an inch, he'll take a mile.

If I found my financial situation or my peace of mind at risk - or if there was bizarre behavior, or disappearing or any treatment of my child that I felt was wrong, I would get out. I've been in relationships with addicts. I've learned that my good will is always used against me.

If it were me, I'd protect my finances before this all goes wrong. I would require professional help for him - and I'd give him two weeks to find it. If that didn't work, I'd have to live separate. I know this sounds harsh, but I've been around too many addicts. One of them was my husband. Not doing that again.

Needabreak

I don't treat active addiction much differently from other emotional / mental disorders. I seek out healthy people as friends, not sick people.

I dated a guy recently, and ended it because he was emotionally distant, and occasionally belligerent and paranoid. Meth addict? or Narcissistic Personality Disorder? Not sure, but regardless, the red flags were waving, and I could see that it wasn't going to work for me.

If I had a minor child, then I would be responsible for helping them through their behavioral / emotional / mental issues. But other adults -- nope!

mamaof3boyz

"Aproach is fine and healthy. Its not very difficult to see the habits of your spouse, we all have routines we follow. its not work or particularly stressful.
I have a question on the comment about not living with an active addict. Do you really mean not living with the behaviors associated? What if the behaviors are more where a person withdraws and isolates?*
Or is this meant to be a negative reinforcer to the addict? Plus its not simple to remove a husband from a home unless you are ready and willing to give up on a marriage. Or I am having trouble wrapping my mind around it at least"

To respond to your comments above, you say it's easy to understand a person's pattern or routine...it wont continue to be easy ...it's still something you have to monitor, and after time, getting the same result over and over will wear you down. My husband's first priority was NOT his family when he was using. He isolated too...locked himself in his bedroom for a week because he had the "flu"... Your husband is having an affair with drugs...and it doesn't matter WHY he is doing it...what matters is that he IS doing it. He is using drugs and it is affecting you and your child. The best and hardest thing did was kick my husband out of the house. He woke up and got clean because he realized he would loose everything. Just because you remove yourself from an unhealthy situation doesn't mean your marriage is over. He will tell you that you gave up on him but that is pure manipulation and one day he will understand.

cynical one

It always comes down to behaviors for me.

If someone was schizophrenic, bipolar, in active addiction, or just a plain ole jackwagon and was causing my home, my castle, my place of retreat from the world to be filled with angst or walking on eggshells then one of us must go. And, if children are involved, it would be my absolute duty as an adult to protect their wellbeing at any cost to my own wants or needs.

AnvilheadII

would you allow anyone ELSE to come into your home and get drunk and high?? if the babysitter showed up off her face, would you let her in to watch the child? if you came across a rather strange individual in a parking lot having a heated argument with a trash dumpster, would you have them over for dinner?

the point i'm trying to make is that we tend to make EXCUSES for bad behavior when it's our chosen partner that we would never tolerate in anyone else, in our home or around our children. and we really need to raise the bar for our children's well being.

AnonWife

Thanks for all the replies. When dealing with this it comes down to behaviors, and I will use this as my guide. How Im feeling and how the home environment is for my daughter.

Throwing someone out isnt always the best solution and if it worked often then I would not be reading post after post about how someone left but is still using. I do appreciate the concern from all of you, but Im not leaving him or changing my way of dealing with him for now.

AnvilheadII

we DON'T throw them out to MAKE them quit....we get them out of our house so we can live an addiction free life! you still feel you can CHANGE him.....and we can't change your thinking on that!

biminiblue

Throwing him out isn't about him getting better. It's about you saving your own sanity.

If you're happy with him hiding out in the man cave and getting high, well, you're in more denial than most. Just know that it is going to get worse.

Moving out or breaking up or whatever action is taken to get away from an addict comes about to protect you and your child, not to "help" him. He has plenty of opportunity to help himself now. You're just making it easier on him to have a place to get high, while you take care of the household, and make sure he's safe.

We'll be here. I hope you and your child find some peace.

AnonWife

Ok if throwing someone out were the solution and would provide such peace then why so many posts by people who are still suffering after throwing someone out. Answers arent black and white in whats best for my family.

Clearly Im not in denial because Ive adopted this strategy and as I said when I posted my focus is on doing things for myself, and better ways to feel my feelings. Ive seen positive improvements in the atmosphere at home, in spending quality family time together, I feel less stressed, am talking more with my husband, he's had more sober days, a better attitude. Im not sure why no one is hearing this part. Why stop doing something right now if its working? I only wanted to hear ideas on how people dealt with their own emotions. I dont understand, must be missing something. I feel like you all think Im making a huge miatake and its making me uncomfortable and confused, or like Im a bad mother. Feels bad.

atalose

I learned to “detach” from certain behaviors from the addict in my life but that detachment was only temporary. I had moments where their using didn’t affect my life but in the big scheme of things it was affecting me far more then I understood.

I think for many who grew up with a parent that was an alcoholic/addict has or had at some point in their lives taken it out more on the non-alcoholic/addict parent who chose to stay and allow them to witness what was not “normal” or healthy living.

There is an expression……when we know better we do better and until we know better we do the best we can with what we have.

biminiblue

AnonWife, just to be clear: I'm not suggesting you throw him out or make any changes whatsoever. I know that's what I would do based on my past experiences with addicts and alcoholics. I've seen a lot in my years. I'm 60, and I've been around many addicts and families of addicts. It's just that you still seem to think that you can "train" your husband to be less of an addict.

Your choices are yours and how you live your life is up to you. We are all sharing our collective concern, but you are the one living it and you are the only one reaping the benefits or the negative consequences.

I know when I post, I also post for the hundreds of people who will read this thread in the future - not just you.

I truly hope you are the one in a hundred (or whatever the odds are) who has a different long-term experience by using the method you have chosen. Of course no one can walk in your shoes and it is always entirely your choice. I sincerely pray that your husband seeks recovery soon.

AnvilheadII

ok, since you asked why your method doesn't seem super popular, i'll give you MY two cents.

Reward the good behavior.
When they do a behavior you do want, reward them. They will be much more likely to repeat the desired behavior and less likely to repeat the "bad" behavior. When incentives for bad behavior are withdrawn and incentives for good behavior are introduced consistently, they will soon learn the preferred response.

sounds a lot like CRAFT right?
"The CRAFT program may help. CRAFT - Community Reinforcement and Family Training - teaches the the use of healthy rewards to encourage positive behaviors." encourage the good, remove the triggers. you yourself used INCENTIVES in the title of this thread.

but you wanna know where i got the first quote from (making a few tiny edits)? an article on changing DOG behavior. it's EXACTLY the same approach and i myself find that pretty demeaning and demoralizing to the intended two-legged trainee.

cynical one

As an adult, I would never allow someone to think they are in the position to have the power to reward or punish me through negative or positive incentives. The only incentive that may work- would be untaxable cash, and it would at minimum have to be in the 8 or 9 figures for it to even make me blink. But, even then I don't think I would sell my dignity for any price.

Needabreak

As Bimini mentioned, the results of your approach will be yours and yours alone. Only you know your situation, and I'm not interested in telling you what to do. I've only shared my own experiences on this thread.

But I think the fundamental conflict you are running into here is that this forum is about helping those who are affected by the addict -- it is not about helping the addict. You are looking for answers re: how to deal with the emotions generated by your approach. But your emotions are generated in large part by your focus on incentivizing the addict to stop: that is, keeping your focus on how to change the addict and his behavior.

Expecting to find others who have experience with your approach on this forum, when its stated purpose is the opposite of what you are trying to do, is kind of like going to the hardware store and asking for bread -- as they say in Al-Anon.

You'll probably find more relevant answers for your path on the CRAFT forums.

Best of luck to you.....

AnonWife

Bimini,

Thank you for the reminder everyone is dealing with their own issues and only has their own experiences to fall back on.

I would suggest if you are not only replying in terms of my situation but to spread your
message to others who might read my post, probably not good to make statements like the way Im doing things only has a 1:1000 chance of working. I dont think you even understand the approach Im using. Someone the other day criticized me and said she tried my way and it didnt work,but when i asked if she used a program like Smart or a competant therapist ro help she said no. So its a case similiair to that of an addict who tries to quit on their own but flounders because they needed help figuring it out. A roadmap if you will.

A: What you said makes sense in a way, Smart is a behavioral approach. How we learn and how we modify our behaviors is well documented. But your wrong I think in being so simple, this is about opening up options and simply allowing a person a chance to say Id rather do this, than that. Like I said with my comparison to AA techniques, where they use the idea do you want what we have, do what we do. Model us! Keep coming back. Same idea

But its much more than this one thing and I was attracted ro the approach because I believe in behavioral modidication, and also studies report family members feel good using it. And I do feel better. But I still have emotions to figure out, and maybe need to add more mindfulness exercises, or plain old fun activities in to keep me centered ?

cynical one

Oh, I misunderstood. I didn't realize that he too was using SMART and was well aware that you are using CRAFT techniques of positive and negative incentives to influence his behavior. That changes everything.

There's obviously not many, if any, on this particular board that use this technique. But, SR does have a Secular board for Friends and Family.