Five Years Here, So Sad to Still Be Here
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Join Date: May 2010
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I would request a copy of his scan and get a second opinion. I don't think it costs very much to have those read by another physician. Just my .02
I think one day at a time is a very wise way to take it. XXX
I think one day at a time is a very wise way to take it. XXX
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Join Date: Jun 2015
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Joie,
Yes, at a certain level of dosage, it renders the user unconscious. It comes in a clear liquid form that tastes almost like water, just a bit salty, hence its use as a "date rape drug." It is also not included in a drug tox screening and is actually very difficult for medical providers to detect even when it is suspected to have been taken.
Essentially, it's the ideal drug for someone who gets drug tested. This is why we are not buying B's story that it wasn't taken intentionally.
Yes, at a certain level of dosage, it renders the user unconscious. It comes in a clear liquid form that tastes almost like water, just a bit salty, hence its use as a "date rape drug." It is also not included in a drug tox screening and is actually very difficult for medical providers to detect even when it is suspected to have been taken.
Essentially, it's the ideal drug for someone who gets drug tested. This is why we are not buying B's story that it wasn't taken intentionally.
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The hospital is not taking our concerns about B seriously, saying that they will not recommend an imposed inpatient treatment program. He was psychotic last week and they want to just let him walk! The staff also won't help with providing documentation showing he has a disability. From what I understand, they don't consider substance abuse disorder a disability even though it is listed in the DSM as one.
B's father has been handling this and now I think it's time for me to step in with some legalese.
B's father has been handling this and now I think it's time for me to step in with some legalese.
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The system in the US really fails people like my son. Drug addicts and non-violent offenders are basically treated just like drug dealers and violent offenders. I see our "enabling" him, e.g. providing him with legal representation, as a way of preventing the criminal "justice" system from making a bad situation even worse as it is wont to do. However, we don't have limitless resources and the "rescuing" effect that our assistance has on him does come with consequences...at some point the other shoe is going to drop...and the effects can only be disasterous.
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alteity, I am so sorry. The hospitals are unfortunately overrun with drug abusers, and the fact is, many drug abusers have other issues that they completely ignore just to get them out of the door.
I have a family member who is in law enforcement. When she takes someone to the hospital, she has to wait there to make sure they actually admit the person. If she does not wait until they are admitted and put into a room, the hospital will simply discharge them immediately as they don't want to deal with it, and frequently don't get paid to do so.
It's a horrible situation for the hospitals, the employees, the person needing help, and the parents and family of that person. My heart truly goes out to you.
I wish I had some gem of information for you, but I can only say I will pray with you.
Many, many hugs to you.
I have a family member who is in law enforcement. When she takes someone to the hospital, she has to wait there to make sure they actually admit the person. If she does not wait until they are admitted and put into a room, the hospital will simply discharge them immediately as they don't want to deal with it, and frequently don't get paid to do so.
It's a horrible situation for the hospitals, the employees, the person needing help, and the parents and family of that person. My heart truly goes out to you.
I wish I had some gem of information for you, but I can only say I will pray with you.
Many, many hugs to you.
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Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,243
Originally Posted by alterity 
I know in my case, my son's environment as a child played a very large role in "causing" his conduct disorder. His father and I *did* cause "it" by not providing a stable, consistent, and nurturing home life. B's critical developmental years were awful. In fact, I abused and neglected my son. We "gave in" to his bad behavior, punished him unfairly when he was not at fault (his sisters often were), and did so many other things wrong as parents. Yes, I can't "cure it", because I cannot turn the clock, but I won't deny my responsibility along the way.
I had a horrific childhood and suffered abuse from my A father and yet was very resilent and survived...all of us, your son included was raised to know right from wrong and each of us makes our choices that determine our destiny. The times he has been sober and done well reflect that he is capable of doing so if he works hard on his recovery... sometimes the A simply chooses to get high despite well knowing that it is "wrong" and will lead to negative consequences.
Be careful that you don't "awfulize" your parenting to the point it gives a pass to your son... no matter how bad you may think it was childhood ends and your son is now a grown man and despite having challenges has had a lot of reinforcement and support from both you and his father to deal with his addiction.
The worst addicts...even dual diagnoses...can find their way out of addiction IF they want it bad enough. As long as he wants to get high more than he wants to get sober and straighten out his life his childhood and possible failures of others are irrelevant. It is not a permanent scar that stops him from making right choices today!
I am in the criminal justice system we both know it is badly broken...especially in addiction issues. He has been given many chances it sounds like to me...you and his dad have helped him repeatedly.
Wishing you peace and serenity today.
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Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 104
My esh is that -- and this sucks-- sometimes it's best for a kid NOT to know you'll be there no matter what.
My parents pretty much said this pretty early. After I got over the "wha? No you love me no matter wha?" I realized that they do, and the adult manifestation of that is mutual healthy boundaries.
My parents pretty much said this pretty early. After I got over the "wha? No you love me no matter wha?" I realized that they do, and the adult manifestation of that is mutual healthy boundaries.
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Hopeworks,
I know exactly what you are talking about. I don't let my guilt take over but I know my son's father probably "enables" him because of the guilt he feels for not protecting our son while he was growing up.
I know exactly what you are talking about. I don't let my guilt take over but I know my son's father probably "enables" him because of the guilt he feels for not protecting our son while he was growing up.
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Well, that didn't last long. Within fourteen days of being discharged from the local psych hospital, he was back at it. This weekend, he was found running naked in the middle of state highway. Police brought him back to the hospital. He denies doing any drugs but he is often babbling incoherently, obviously insane. What does the hospital propose to do? Just let him out.........arrrggghhh!
So, a family member is going to try to convince him to get admitted to an in-patient program that will treat him holistically/medically/biochemically, instead of approaching this as a "drug abuse" problem. She is going to tell him that 1) he no longer is allowed to live where he is currently living , 2) he will be homeless if he doesn't take this opportunity, and 3) the probation department will [likely] charge him with probation violation if he doesn't go. She will have to drive him there himself and I am praying it all works out okay.
Need prayers now more than ever. This is his last chance to stay alive and out of prison.
So, a family member is going to try to convince him to get admitted to an in-patient program that will treat him holistically/medically/biochemically, instead of approaching this as a "drug abuse" problem. She is going to tell him that 1) he no longer is allowed to live where he is currently living , 2) he will be homeless if he doesn't take this opportunity, and 3) the probation department will [likely] charge him with probation violation if he doesn't go. She will have to drive him there himself and I am praying it all works out okay.
Need prayers now more than ever. This is his last chance to stay alive and out of prison.
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Family member was able to get a positive response to consenting to in-patient treatment (proposal is a long term rehab) on Tuesday only because he was drugged up due to aggression he was displaying the night before. Yesterday, he was completely in denial about everything, drugs, mental health, etc., when his attorney met with him. He was informed that if he lets himself out, should the hospital decide it was appropriate, he will have no place to go. B says he is okay with that. *sigh* For the well being of his father, who is not handling this well at all. For what possibly will happen if the hospital doesn't civilly commit him perhaps through a probation order, although the evidence that he violated the terms is flimsy at this point. That the hospital will not recognize that he will need a very long time to no longer be a danger to self or others. Apparently, there are no plans to let him out anytime soon, but who knows.....Wrote him a letter today trying to convince him that a treatment center is the best thing for him and anything else will end in tragedy.
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my last ditch effort letter
Dear B,
I am writing to implore you to take this last opportunity you have to save yourself. You are on Dad’s insurance for five more months. After that, I believe you will be on your own. I think you are on your own in other ways right now as well: no place to live and no more support. Shelter is no resort. How will you eat? Wash your clothes? Live? Facing this, one would think you would be terrified, especially if you have been on meds at the hospital that can cause mental health problems to worsen.
The antipsychotic drug haldol (which you have been given) can induce psychosis upon withdrawal in susceptible people. You have had psychotic episodes and should be considered susceptible. Upon release, should the hospital release you, whatever treatment you have been given could totally backfire, sending you again into a downward spiral. Some doctors believe a psychosis that develops during antipsychotic withdrawal is a withdrawal symptom (for some patients) and is evidence of the brain’s physical dependence on the drug; while others say it’s a return of the psychotic symptoms that required treatment initially. Point is, you need medical and mental health help at a facility that is equipped to effectively treat you.
I’m terrified for you. I’m terrified that you aren’t able to make good decisions and have lost your ability to reason. Because the reasonable, good decision to make now is to accept the fact that you need far more help than any outpatient treatment can provide.
I’m not sure what your terms of probation are, but I know that AA is mandated so you probably are prohibited from all intoxicants, legal or not. There is a good chance that probation would consider the use of legal intoxicants (as you were found in an intoxicated state by police, from what I was told) a violation. They may be poised to incarcerate you, as they have this kind of discretion (the legal standard under probation is not the same as in a court of law), but I don’t know.
I think you think that [private atty hired by his father] has not represented you well. I disagree. A public defender essentially amounts to a plea deal broker. That’s all they do…recommend clients plead out and make a deal. {atty] got you the best deal possible. But from what it seems, you’ve squandered it like you have so many other opportunities you’ve been given for whatever reason: personality disorder, schizophrenia (perhaps mercury toxicity induced from the root canal and silver-mercury fillings as this can cause mental illness) , bi-polar (perhaps induced by herpes simplex I virus as this too can cause mental illness). Point is, you need medical and mental health help at a facility that is equipped to effectively treat you.
Some doubts have arisen as to whether the substance you used, if any, was bath salts and whether you actually were running around naked. But really, does it matter? All this stuff – C. witnessing you all manic (like I did in [place]), you crashing afterwards, your sex addiction, your crazy thoughts – whether drug-induced or not is INSANE.
If you reflect back upon your life, as you and I have already discussed, there has not been a significant (longer than 6 months) stretch of time when you have not abused substances, had an overdose, psychotic break, run-in with the law, or other danger to yourself and/or others. The exceptions to this are 1) when you were at boarding school and 2) eight or so months after coming out of jail the last time while prison time hung over your head. I have written to you before but I am going to say it again, the stakes keep getting higher and higher. At this point, they are as high as they can get.
Don’t you think that a good hospital (not [where he is now]…the proposed place that you can voluntarily go to if approved by the drug court is AMAZING, with a 90 percent effectiveness rate!) is far better than prison or the streets? Honestly, I feel in my soul that this really is your last chance to stay alive and out of prison.
I pray that you come to your senses about this. Please save yourself, before it’s too late.
Love,
I am writing to implore you to take this last opportunity you have to save yourself. You are on Dad’s insurance for five more months. After that, I believe you will be on your own. I think you are on your own in other ways right now as well: no place to live and no more support. Shelter is no resort. How will you eat? Wash your clothes? Live? Facing this, one would think you would be terrified, especially if you have been on meds at the hospital that can cause mental health problems to worsen.
The antipsychotic drug haldol (which you have been given) can induce psychosis upon withdrawal in susceptible people. You have had psychotic episodes and should be considered susceptible. Upon release, should the hospital release you, whatever treatment you have been given could totally backfire, sending you again into a downward spiral. Some doctors believe a psychosis that develops during antipsychotic withdrawal is a withdrawal symptom (for some patients) and is evidence of the brain’s physical dependence on the drug; while others say it’s a return of the psychotic symptoms that required treatment initially. Point is, you need medical and mental health help at a facility that is equipped to effectively treat you.
I’m terrified for you. I’m terrified that you aren’t able to make good decisions and have lost your ability to reason. Because the reasonable, good decision to make now is to accept the fact that you need far more help than any outpatient treatment can provide.
I’m not sure what your terms of probation are, but I know that AA is mandated so you probably are prohibited from all intoxicants, legal or not. There is a good chance that probation would consider the use of legal intoxicants (as you were found in an intoxicated state by police, from what I was told) a violation. They may be poised to incarcerate you, as they have this kind of discretion (the legal standard under probation is not the same as in a court of law), but I don’t know.
I think you think that [private atty hired by his father] has not represented you well. I disagree. A public defender essentially amounts to a plea deal broker. That’s all they do…recommend clients plead out and make a deal. {atty] got you the best deal possible. But from what it seems, you’ve squandered it like you have so many other opportunities you’ve been given for whatever reason: personality disorder, schizophrenia (perhaps mercury toxicity induced from the root canal and silver-mercury fillings as this can cause mental illness) , bi-polar (perhaps induced by herpes simplex I virus as this too can cause mental illness). Point is, you need medical and mental health help at a facility that is equipped to effectively treat you.
Some doubts have arisen as to whether the substance you used, if any, was bath salts and whether you actually were running around naked. But really, does it matter? All this stuff – C. witnessing you all manic (like I did in [place]), you crashing afterwards, your sex addiction, your crazy thoughts – whether drug-induced or not is INSANE.
If you reflect back upon your life, as you and I have already discussed, there has not been a significant (longer than 6 months) stretch of time when you have not abused substances, had an overdose, psychotic break, run-in with the law, or other danger to yourself and/or others. The exceptions to this are 1) when you were at boarding school and 2) eight or so months after coming out of jail the last time while prison time hung over your head. I have written to you before but I am going to say it again, the stakes keep getting higher and higher. At this point, they are as high as they can get.
Don’t you think that a good hospital (not [where he is now]…the proposed place that you can voluntarily go to if approved by the drug court is AMAZING, with a 90 percent effectiveness rate!) is far better than prison or the streets? Honestly, I feel in my soul that this really is your last chance to stay alive and out of prison.
I pray that you come to your senses about this. Please save yourself, before it’s too late.
Love,
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 584
OMG your letter made me cry, It shows all the love, pain, suffering and homework you are doing to help your son. I feel your pain and hope he feels it also.
Having an addicted child is like having them on death row...... Waiting waiting waiting. The day draws near and there is an appeal, life is back on hold. All the while we fight for that pardon to let them live, let them out of the dark cell their addiction has them trapped in. I hope he does the right thing, and you find some peace. My son is facing jail time after getting busted with a large amount of heroin he is getting charged with intent (525 bags) but the sad truth is they were all his at the time of his arrest he was using up to 50 plus bags a day, what a sad mess he has put his life in and left my heart shattered. He was living in his car 7-8 days before he was arrested when we got it back (his car) I filled a gallon plastic bag with all the empty bags and needles I found in it. He was arrested Jan 1, 2015 after we put out a notice to the police he was driving and using. We were so afraid he was going to hurt someone behind the wheel. October 2014 he was in the city passed out at the wheel sitting sideways blocking traffic, the street camara shows two guys getting him out of the car, needle still in his arm and dragging him to the side walk, while another guy gets in and moves his car. Police came and took him by EMS to the hospital brought him back to life and let him walk out. He's been an addict since 17 but cleaned up may times for long periods in between then he found heroin. This last binge started in August and ended when he was busted in Jan, by far the longest and worst one I have seen. He's out on bail now getting the vivotrol shot (not sure of the spelling) it's a blocker. He's not using heroin now but he's not working a program either. He gets his next shot tomorrow and he wants it , but he don't want a program AA. ill tell you one thing heroin that's on my bucket list!!! When I'm on my death bed, I want to finally understand why theses drugs are worth it?
Having an addicted child is like having them on death row...... Waiting waiting waiting. The day draws near and there is an appeal, life is back on hold. All the while we fight for that pardon to let them live, let them out of the dark cell their addiction has them trapped in. I hope he does the right thing, and you find some peace. My son is facing jail time after getting busted with a large amount of heroin he is getting charged with intent (525 bags) but the sad truth is they were all his at the time of his arrest he was using up to 50 plus bags a day, what a sad mess he has put his life in and left my heart shattered. He was living in his car 7-8 days before he was arrested when we got it back (his car) I filled a gallon plastic bag with all the empty bags and needles I found in it. He was arrested Jan 1, 2015 after we put out a notice to the police he was driving and using. We were so afraid he was going to hurt someone behind the wheel. October 2014 he was in the city passed out at the wheel sitting sideways blocking traffic, the street camara shows two guys getting him out of the car, needle still in his arm and dragging him to the side walk, while another guy gets in and moves his car. Police came and took him by EMS to the hospital brought him back to life and let him walk out. He's been an addict since 17 but cleaned up may times for long periods in between then he found heroin. This last binge started in August and ended when he was busted in Jan, by far the longest and worst one I have seen. He's out on bail now getting the vivotrol shot (not sure of the spelling) it's a blocker. He's not using heroin now but he's not working a program either. He gets his next shot tomorrow and he wants it , but he don't want a program AA. ill tell you one thing heroin that's on my bucket list!!! When I'm on my death bed, I want to finally understand why theses drugs are worth it?
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