Five Years Here, So Sad to Still Be Here
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Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,698
Dearest Alterity, Somehow I missed seeing this earlier but I wanted to send by deepest condolences and prayers to you and your dear family. You never stopped loving B and also did everything you could to help him when he really wanted the help. I pray that the horrible people who did this come to swift justice. You are in my prayers.
TT
TT
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 13,560
Wow. Eye opening stuff.
Originally Posted by alterity 
Member
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Georgia
Posts: 13
Originally Posted by alterity
Even just to help a few people at a time... There has to be something someone can do!
My oldest son is actually 35, and still surviving. Started his addictions
with huffing at age 12.
I don't know what he is doing now, but his drug of choice is injected
opiates.
I have read most of this thread, and you seem like a well educated, well spoken and driven person.
Have you considered running for office?
Or, finding a candidate who will support your drug education/prevention programs in your community?
Times are a changing.
"O you must wear your rue with difference".
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 1,146
This is what I would do in a fantasy situation where there was unlimited money for the problem:
In my fantasy world, there would be a system in place to help children growing up in toxic environments, such as families where there is addiction or abuse. The thing I *think* might work, is if the parents were assisted with whatever they needed to help raise their children right -- so that could mean they get domestic violence / drug and alcohol counseling... neighborhood assistance programs to leave their situations if need be, fresh food packages.... etc. ... . The reason I want this in my fantasy world, is because my husband grew up with addiction and became an addict where the stuff he was using was either "not" illegal or undetectable, yet is/or was certain to kill him/ and if his friends and family had not detached from him completely, he would have been a greater danger to himself and also them (as it is, there is no telling that he's not still a danger to himself). Also, in this fantasy world, there should be an ability for magistrates and judges to enforce rehabilitation for extended periods of time -- long enough for the brain to restructure itself -- and for doctors to report the abuse of drugs to people who can enforce rehabilitation, for doctors to report the abuse of drugs to friends and family members who care about the patient *before* the situation reaches crises point... for ALL mental health professionals and health professionals, teachers (primary, secondary, and tertiary), religious leaders, lawyers, lawmakers, and law enforcement, politicians, to be educated about addiction, its effects, and what to do for the addict as well as what to do about the friends and family members. I think the laws should be changed so that there is a broader definition of what is considered "illegal" and that if an addict is found with "legal" drugs (bath salts, synthetic pot), they should be put in mandatory rehabilitation and psychiatric care... . I think that if the police remove an addict from a property because of drug-affected violence, that the addict should be put under arrest in a safe house (not the same as a jail) where their mental and physical health can be monitored for a period of time so that they can... "decompress" (so that they don't become homeless). I think the most important thing that can happen, and the best place to start, is an education program or an outreach program that can go to schools, workplaces, etc...
That is my ideal, fantasy world.
I feel that by the time we have to think about how to help an addict, we're dealing with someone who should have been helped decades ago, when they they were still infants... because of this (the Dunedin study): https://dunedinstudy.otago.ac.nz/
In the study, people are studied from birth to adulthood, and there seems to be a way to tell who is going to end up doing what... including become an addict. I think a lot of it is about the way a person is affected by their childhood.
However... maybe none of this works, even in fantasy. For an addict who can't quit, what I wrote above might seem simplistic and even insulting... .
In my fantasy world, there would be a system in place to help children growing up in toxic environments, such as families where there is addiction or abuse. The thing I *think* might work, is if the parents were assisted with whatever they needed to help raise their children right -- so that could mean they get domestic violence / drug and alcohol counseling... neighborhood assistance programs to leave their situations if need be, fresh food packages.... etc. ... . The reason I want this in my fantasy world, is because my husband grew up with addiction and became an addict where the stuff he was using was either "not" illegal or undetectable, yet is/or was certain to kill him/ and if his friends and family had not detached from him completely, he would have been a greater danger to himself and also them (as it is, there is no telling that he's not still a danger to himself). Also, in this fantasy world, there should be an ability for magistrates and judges to enforce rehabilitation for extended periods of time -- long enough for the brain to restructure itself -- and for doctors to report the abuse of drugs to people who can enforce rehabilitation, for doctors to report the abuse of drugs to friends and family members who care about the patient *before* the situation reaches crises point... for ALL mental health professionals and health professionals, teachers (primary, secondary, and tertiary), religious leaders, lawyers, lawmakers, and law enforcement, politicians, to be educated about addiction, its effects, and what to do for the addict as well as what to do about the friends and family members. I think the laws should be changed so that there is a broader definition of what is considered "illegal" and that if an addict is found with "legal" drugs (bath salts, synthetic pot), they should be put in mandatory rehabilitation and psychiatric care... . I think that if the police remove an addict from a property because of drug-affected violence, that the addict should be put under arrest in a safe house (not the same as a jail) where their mental and physical health can be monitored for a period of time so that they can... "decompress" (so that they don't become homeless). I think the most important thing that can happen, and the best place to start, is an education program or an outreach program that can go to schools, workplaces, etc...
That is my ideal, fantasy world.
I feel that by the time we have to think about how to help an addict, we're dealing with someone who should have been helped decades ago, when they they were still infants... because of this (the Dunedin study): https://dunedinstudy.otago.ac.nz/
In the study, people are studied from birth to adulthood, and there seems to be a way to tell who is going to end up doing what... including become an addict. I think a lot of it is about the way a person is affected by their childhood.
However... maybe none of this works, even in fantasy. For an addict who can't quit, what I wrote above might seem simplistic and even insulting... .
Originally Posted by alterity
Say money was no object, what could help? What if you had a half million dollars per annum to put towards something, what would it be?
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Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 379
Thank you for the vote of confidence, WiseOwl.
OpheliaKatz, You hit on a number of areas of support and services that possibly could have helped along the way. However, at least in the United States, civil liberties and individual rights prohibit imposition on the unwilling in most cases. Unless the state's child protective services agency has gotten involved, and even then the "bar" is high, the family and addicted individual (if an adult) must agree to be supported and served in the way you describe.
When my brother was a baby and toddler, many things in the home were bad for him but nothing warranted state intervention. The falling down the flight of stairs when he was only about 11 months old in a walker (those round ones they sit in) was an accident. He experienced many other similar accidents but the state only intervenes if there is real abuse, intentionally caused physical harm. That is, in most states it is like this. The state might also intervene when there is negligent supervision but because there are so many cases of awful abuse and the system is so overwhelmed, that usually doesn't happen.
I have been thinking about this conundrum for days. I can't think of anything that can be done.
Prohibition does not work.
The only answer I have been able to come up with is is addiction education and awareness.
OpheliaKatz, You hit on a number of areas of support and services that possibly could have helped along the way. However, at least in the United States, civil liberties and individual rights prohibit imposition on the unwilling in most cases. Unless the state's child protective services agency has gotten involved, and even then the "bar" is high, the family and addicted individual (if an adult) must agree to be supported and served in the way you describe.
When my brother was a baby and toddler, many things in the home were bad for him but nothing warranted state intervention. The falling down the flight of stairs when he was only about 11 months old in a walker (those round ones they sit in) was an accident. He experienced many other similar accidents but the state only intervenes if there is real abuse, intentionally caused physical harm. That is, in most states it is like this. The state might also intervene when there is negligent supervision but because there are so many cases of awful abuse and the system is so overwhelmed, that usually doesn't happen.
I have been thinking about this conundrum for days. I can't think of anything that can be done.
Prohibition does not work.
The only answer I have been able to come up with is is addiction education and awareness.
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Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 379
I just saw this on another section in the forums.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/15/u...imes&smtyp=cur
I took the ACE screening test and entered values for my B. The score was a 6.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/15/u...imes&smtyp=cur
I took the ACE screening test and entered values for my B. The score was a 6.
"O you must wear your rue with difference".
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 1,146
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-...nd-doesnt-mean
Hello Alterity. My ace score was 4, my ex's ace score was 8. Yet there are people with an 8 score or higher who don't become addicts. I only mentioned domestic abuse because that's where my experience with addiction lies, so I hope I didn't make you worry for no reason. It's really hard to know the outcome of things, and also the causes. I hope you are coping better today. I you find the answers you are looking for soon. God bless.
Hello Alterity. My ace score was 4, my ex's ace score was 8. Yet there are people with an 8 score or higher who don't become addicts. I only mentioned domestic abuse because that's where my experience with addiction lies, so I hope I didn't make you worry for no reason. It's really hard to know the outcome of things, and also the causes. I hope you are coping better today. I you find the answers you are looking for soon. God bless.
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No worries, OpheliaKatz.
BTW, I heard a couple of interesting statistics recently. One in eight US Americans are alcoholics and one in six has been prescribed anti-anxiety, anti-depression, or similar pharmaceutical within the past 6 to 12 months.
BTW, I heard a couple of interesting statistics recently. One in eight US Americans are alcoholics and one in six has been prescribed anti-anxiety, anti-depression, or similar pharmaceutical within the past 6 to 12 months.
"O you must wear your rue with difference".
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 1,146
Originally Posted by alterity
No worries, OpheliaKatz.
BTW, I heard a couple of interesting statistics recently. One in eight US Americans are alcoholics and one in six has been prescribed anti-anxiety, anti-depression, or similar pharmaceutical within the past 6 to 12 months.
BTW, I heard a couple of interesting statistics recently. One in eight US Americans are alcoholics and one in six has been prescribed anti-anxiety, anti-depression, or similar pharmaceutical within the past 6 to 12 months.
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Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 379
It's been two weeks. I've been crying on and off all day. I am being ridiculous and messaging at his facebook page:
Two weeks have passed since your passing and it still feels unreal.
I want to collect all the photos I have of you and any other memorabilia, surround myself with it, and feel like you are still here.
I am writing these messages as if you still are... crazy, huh?
Your profile photo was taken during a time when you were struggling so hard. It was so heartbreaking.
The world was so cruel and unfair to you. I keep wondering if there was a pivotal moment in your life when something could have been done to prevent all the hardships you experienced.
I wonder if falling down those stairs when you were so young really permanently caused trauma that could not be overcome. And then there was trauma after trauma, between the chaos in the family, the chaos of poor supervision, getting sent to a school that caused even further trauma, and on and on... There was so little support for you when you needed it the most.
And through it all, you were still a good person with a good heart. You were so loved, B...... I miss you so much!!!!!!!
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Two weeks have passed since your passing and it still feels unreal.
I want to collect all the photos I have of you and any other memorabilia, surround myself with it, and feel like you are still here.
I am writing these messages as if you still are... crazy, huh?
Your profile photo was taken during a time when you were struggling so hard. It was so heartbreaking.
The world was so cruel and unfair to you. I keep wondering if there was a pivotal moment in your life when something could have been done to prevent all the hardships you experienced.
I wonder if falling down those stairs when you were so young really permanently caused trauma that could not be overcome. And then there was trauma after trauma, between the chaos in the family, the chaos of poor supervision, getting sent to a school that caused even further trauma, and on and on... There was so little support for you when you needed it the most.
And through it all, you were still a good person with a good heart. You were so loved, B...... I miss you so much!!!!!!!
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Type a message...
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Looking through some of the memorabilia I kept for B, I found some heartbreaking letters. Mixed in with them was a pamphlet titled "My Retreat" from Christ of the Hills Retreat my B attended in 2003 when he was just about 14. Written on top of the first page, in his handwriting, is "Am I a uniter or a divider? Am I healer or a hurter?" There are writings in the margin that show he was reflecting upon what was being taught and learning quite a bit. Then there are the letters between him and Dad.
I am transcribing Dad's "Impact Letter" sent to B in 2005 when B was sent to an outdoor therapeutic high school shortly before turning 16. It was part of the program that the parents write these letters. ... will post it later...
I am transcribing Dad's "Impact Letter" sent to B in 2005 when B was sent to an outdoor therapeutic high school shortly before turning 16. It was part of the program that the parents write these letters. ... will post it later...
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I hope everything is going well for you. During the last two months, I've felt as though you betrayed my trust in you. For example, the night that you told me that you were going to Star Wars and I drove you and the three other guys to the theater, I wanted to believe that you would go see the show and have a good time. Your mom told me to go and purchase the tickets with a credit card. What she said made sense since you had stolen money from both of us previously. However, I felt by doing that, I would have embarrassed you and conveyed to you that I didn’t trust you. I wanted so hard to believe in you. Instead of going to the movies, you chose to lie to me and use the $40.00 I had given you to buy drugs. Then you tried to deceive me by getting back to the theater in time when the show was ending to make me believe that you were at the show. You were high on whatever you bought that night.
As things deteriorated, I felt so uneasy whenever you were in the house. I had to hide my wallet, my jar where I kept loose change, and make sure that any liquor was secure. I felt as though you were some intruder since you had stolen from your mom, your sisters, and me. Making things even worse was when your mother quoted you as stating that “…If I have to live with him, I’ll wait till he’s sleeping and stab him.” At this point, I realized that something was terribly wrong. I felt more sorrow than anger because I could not believe that this was the same son who just weeks before was playing “horse” in the gym with me.
The day that you broke down the door in your mother’s house was one of the saddest says in my life. I was in total disbelief that not only were you capable of doing such a time, but you showed no remorse whatsoever. [If I recall correctly, B was locked out of his mom’s house which was his primary residence. I don’t know if he was locked out intentionally or not.] What really was even more upsetting was that after breaking the door you started to cook grilled cheese sandwiches as though it was perfectly normal. The glass was strewn all over the floor and there you were at the stove. The fact that you would even leave your mother a note stating that “…sorry, but maybe next time you won’t lock me out” was alarming. [Obviously, B was very upset at being locked out, considering how young he had been when sent off to the Family School and the trauma he experienced there. He had such terrible abandonment issues. These were obviously not being properly addressed.] At this point, it became obvious that you needed more than either your mom or I could give you.
I really thought that the conversation we had the night before you left Bergen Regional Hospital was a positive turning point. I really believed that you would do willingly all the things we discussed. If you recall, we discussed options, gave you choices and talked about future goals. For the first time in weeks, I felt that we had turned the corner and things would be better. Your first two days after that when you came to my school to work in your final exams added to my positive feelings. But again, I was wrong. That Friday night you belligerently walked out of your mom’s house and never came home until early in the morning. All the things you and I discussed for almost two hours in the hospital four nights before were lies and deceit on your part.
The next night – that Sunday night when S and S drove you to my house – was, at that point, the lowest I had seen you. There you were – standing in front of me totally wasted and claiming you hadn’t taken anything. Then you bolted from the house and I chased you. [Dad “chased” B with his car. Dad later admitted to me that he, for a split second, was in such a rage at B that he almost decided to hit B with his car. I was so scared that my Dad was homicidal that I called the state’s child protective services on him.] When I caught up with your and you refused to get in the car, I knew I was in trouble. The quote that “parents cannot control their child, they can only influence them” was no more obvious to me than that night. A feeling of helplessness as your father engulfed me that Sunday night.
When you refused to go to school with me that next day to finish your exams, I knew that I could no longer have a relationship with you in the current situation. I would not tolerate your cheating, lying, deceptions and belligerence. You were going to do whatever you wanted. If I attempted to “make” you do anything you didn’t want to, I felt it would be a tragedy waiting to happen.
The fact that you would either sell or give the Biology exam to your friend never entered my mind. With all that happened, I really believed you wanted to do well and would never put yourself in a position to fail all your subjects. I believe that you don’t care about my reputation or credibility with ------ High School. [Dad worked for decades in the school system.] However, since everything was all about you, I didn’t think that you would have done that now that you may have to repeat 10th grade.
I despaired totally upon hearing that you had broken down your sister’s bedroom door and stolen her computer and jewelry. You would have been locked up that night except we knew you going to the Wilderness Program. I felt so angry, dejected and sick to my stomach that night. One part of me wanted to file charges against you so you would be taken to the Juvenile Detention Home and experience what life is like among those kids. However, I felt torn since I couldn’t believe that the B I knew earlier in the spring could be the same one who was willing to sell his dead grandmother’s wedding ring – among the other pieces of jewelry – for drugs.
What happened to the B who I used to throw a football with on the beach for hours? Or the B who loved the roller coaster rides? Or even the B I had lunch with in New York before I was taking him to the Family School? Or the B who promised me in late February of this year that if he came home, he’d be fine… that all he wanted to do was come home and be a normal kid. Those are the unanswered questions I keep asking myself.
Obviously there are several other factors that led to our decision to send you to the Wilderness Program. I believe your mother will probably describe her feelings to you when you called her a ******* bitch and a *****. My feelings upon hearing that you said those things to her were disgust, anger and sadness.
I have obviously thought deeply these past months on what things I could have done better as your father. I regret not talking to you when you were younger in a meaningful way. I thought I did, but upon reflection, I didn’t. I also regret “losing it” the night you lied about going to the movies and hitting you with a punch in the stomach. I had been working with you on controlling your emotions and I couldn’t control mine that night.
B, you are very intelligent, sensitive, creative and athletic. Your sense of humor is a special gift that makes you a pleasure to be with. You have a fearlessness which, when harnessed, can be a very positive trait. You are not afraid to attempt new things.
Your potential is great. You have all the abilities and characteristics to weave for yourself an exciting, fulfilling and satisfying life. Love, Dad
As things deteriorated, I felt so uneasy whenever you were in the house. I had to hide my wallet, my jar where I kept loose change, and make sure that any liquor was secure. I felt as though you were some intruder since you had stolen from your mom, your sisters, and me. Making things even worse was when your mother quoted you as stating that “…If I have to live with him, I’ll wait till he’s sleeping and stab him.” At this point, I realized that something was terribly wrong. I felt more sorrow than anger because I could not believe that this was the same son who just weeks before was playing “horse” in the gym with me.
The day that you broke down the door in your mother’s house was one of the saddest says in my life. I was in total disbelief that not only were you capable of doing such a time, but you showed no remorse whatsoever. [If I recall correctly, B was locked out of his mom’s house which was his primary residence. I don’t know if he was locked out intentionally or not.] What really was even more upsetting was that after breaking the door you started to cook grilled cheese sandwiches as though it was perfectly normal. The glass was strewn all over the floor and there you were at the stove. The fact that you would even leave your mother a note stating that “…sorry, but maybe next time you won’t lock me out” was alarming. [Obviously, B was very upset at being locked out, considering how young he had been when sent off to the Family School and the trauma he experienced there. He had such terrible abandonment issues. These were obviously not being properly addressed.] At this point, it became obvious that you needed more than either your mom or I could give you.
I really thought that the conversation we had the night before you left Bergen Regional Hospital was a positive turning point. I really believed that you would do willingly all the things we discussed. If you recall, we discussed options, gave you choices and talked about future goals. For the first time in weeks, I felt that we had turned the corner and things would be better. Your first two days after that when you came to my school to work in your final exams added to my positive feelings. But again, I was wrong. That Friday night you belligerently walked out of your mom’s house and never came home until early in the morning. All the things you and I discussed for almost two hours in the hospital four nights before were lies and deceit on your part.
The next night – that Sunday night when S and S drove you to my house – was, at that point, the lowest I had seen you. There you were – standing in front of me totally wasted and claiming you hadn’t taken anything. Then you bolted from the house and I chased you. [Dad “chased” B with his car. Dad later admitted to me that he, for a split second, was in such a rage at B that he almost decided to hit B with his car. I was so scared that my Dad was homicidal that I called the state’s child protective services on him.] When I caught up with your and you refused to get in the car, I knew I was in trouble. The quote that “parents cannot control their child, they can only influence them” was no more obvious to me than that night. A feeling of helplessness as your father engulfed me that Sunday night.
When you refused to go to school with me that next day to finish your exams, I knew that I could no longer have a relationship with you in the current situation. I would not tolerate your cheating, lying, deceptions and belligerence. You were going to do whatever you wanted. If I attempted to “make” you do anything you didn’t want to, I felt it would be a tragedy waiting to happen.
The fact that you would either sell or give the Biology exam to your friend never entered my mind. With all that happened, I really believed you wanted to do well and would never put yourself in a position to fail all your subjects. I believe that you don’t care about my reputation or credibility with ------ High School. [Dad worked for decades in the school system.] However, since everything was all about you, I didn’t think that you would have done that now that you may have to repeat 10th grade.
I despaired totally upon hearing that you had broken down your sister’s bedroom door and stolen her computer and jewelry. You would have been locked up that night except we knew you going to the Wilderness Program. I felt so angry, dejected and sick to my stomach that night. One part of me wanted to file charges against you so you would be taken to the Juvenile Detention Home and experience what life is like among those kids. However, I felt torn since I couldn’t believe that the B I knew earlier in the spring could be the same one who was willing to sell his dead grandmother’s wedding ring – among the other pieces of jewelry – for drugs.
What happened to the B who I used to throw a football with on the beach for hours? Or the B who loved the roller coaster rides? Or even the B I had lunch with in New York before I was taking him to the Family School? Or the B who promised me in late February of this year that if he came home, he’d be fine… that all he wanted to do was come home and be a normal kid. Those are the unanswered questions I keep asking myself.
Obviously there are several other factors that led to our decision to send you to the Wilderness Program. I believe your mother will probably describe her feelings to you when you called her a ******* bitch and a *****. My feelings upon hearing that you said those things to her were disgust, anger and sadness.
I have obviously thought deeply these past months on what things I could have done better as your father. I regret not talking to you when you were younger in a meaningful way. I thought I did, but upon reflection, I didn’t. I also regret “losing it” the night you lied about going to the movies and hitting you with a punch in the stomach. I had been working with you on controlling your emotions and I couldn’t control mine that night.
B, you are very intelligent, sensitive, creative and athletic. Your sense of humor is a special gift that makes you a pleasure to be with. You have a fearlessness which, when harnessed, can be a very positive trait. You are not afraid to attempt new things.
Your potential is great. You have all the abilities and characteristics to weave for yourself an exciting, fulfilling and satisfying life. Love, Dad
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