Eileen01

Everything has been very neutral in my home for the past few weeks. This evening AH was having a mini meltdown and asked me for help. He indicated he was trying to taper off his Oxy and other Rx's and was unable to remember what he'd taken. I suggested he write down what he takes as he takes whatever pills.

He had several whiney retorts to my suggestions of why they wouldn't work. He said if I notice he's more irritable or acting odd it is due to him going thru withdrawal.

I asked him why he was doing this. He said he wants to get off his meds as he does not feel he needs to take "as much." I asked him why he's not asking his pain doctor for help with this as he's already been told not to take no more than 1 pill less per day if he wants to reduce the amount.

He claimed the pain doctor never said this - but he did. Pain doctor was actually quite stern about this and repeated it several time.

Anyways... I doubt this will last too long but is there anything I need to be aware of when an addict tries to taper off Rx meds? I'm not involving myself. I'm more concerned about awareness of the effects of withdrawal in someone who's been a long time user.

Thank you

OpioPhobe

Eileen - as far as the opiates go there is a fairly predictable laundry list of symptoms that come with withdrawal. Tapering off of them (as opposed to abruptly stopping) tends to generate milder symptoms. Physically it is comparable to a bad stomach flu with pain throughout the body. The mental aspects are much more severe in my opinion, but they can range widely depending on severity. Mild withdrawal would be feeling depressed, irritable, and restless sleeping. Severe would be extreme agitation, suicidal ideation, complete insomnia for multiple days, etc. There are a myriad of factors that go into how bad the withdrawal is. I am not a doctor, and this is just based on my personal experience going through it or sitting for other addicts going through it.

You mention "other Rx's" though. Are those other opiates or something else? Coming off of drugs other than opiates can cause a whole different set of withdrawal symptoms.

When you say you are not involved yourself do you mean that he is going to withdrawal somewhere away from you? If you are staying with him during it then you are very much involved whether you realize it or not. It is not a good situation to be around someone going through withdrawal. They tend to be very irritable and quite unpleasant to be around. For example, if you share the same bed and it gets rough you can forget about getting any sleep. He will be kicking his legs and thrashing around all night. If you want to be there that is one thing, but I just wanted to forewarn you that it is an ugly process. The other thing is that there will be little to nothing that you can do to assist him in the process. Best of luck.

buffalodiscord

I can confirm this as my wife has been through withdrawl...with and without me knowing probably 10 times.

Eileen01

Thanks opi for the input. I have to say what you've described is much like I see him feeling most days. I know he's never followed his prescribed instructions - takes more some days - less other days which I would presume adds to the overall picture.

This is the first time he's told me of his plan to get off his pain meds. In the past he's told me after the fact when he's tried to take less. Those few times were a failure as it only caused him the need to take more as it caused higher pain levels.

When I say I'm not getting involved I mean I'm not going to be asking him how it's working or checking the method he chose to monitor the amount of pills he's taking - something I would have done in the past to both know what he was doing and provide support if needed. He's not going anyplace and plans to do this on his own. I suggested we find a place for him to do this safely. His reply was he can do it better on his own. That "they" would just take all his pills away and make him suffer, that he has too much pain already.

Of course I would provide help if he needed it. My thoughts are to not enable him in this one way or the other. If I ask to many questions I'll be told I'm making him do this or told I'm trying to control him.

He pretty much knocks himself out with Ambien and Valium at night to sleep or whenever he wants to tune out. I've never known him to kick or thrash about. Usually he takes more pills if he's not falling asleep in a bit, or gets up. I will keep an eye out for thrashing.

The other Rx's he's working to take less of is Valium and Dialudid, in addition to taking less or possibly no Oxy slow release. He also has Vicoden on hand and some Percoset's from previous doctors that he takes here and there when he feels the other meds are not working.

So far today's not been much different for him than any other day. Up for a bit, then back to bed because he's in too much pain to sit or stand.

Thank you for your input. I appreciate it a lot.

zoso77

Eileen, has he considered going in-patient so that he can weather the symptoms in a controlled environment?

Eileen01

He won't consider going anyplace in-patient. I asked him about doing this yesterday and he said "No Way!" That they will only take all his pills away and he'd be in more pain than he is already in. He claims he feels he knows best how to do this for himself.

I also commented to him that when he did talk to the pain doc about trying to take less oxy that his pain doc specifically said to not take anything less than 1 oxy per day. AH said the pain doc never stated this. I know the doctor did say this at the appointment when the topic came up of how to safely reduce the narcotic amounts.

zoso77

Well, personally I think this is bunk. I bet you know this, too.

And with that established, have you considered what is best for you?

cynical one

Detoxes should be done inpatient under the care of a physician, especially since Benzo's are involved which can cause life threatening seizures.
Don't hesitate to call 911.

With that being said, and this is not medical advice, Google: The Ashton Manual.

OpioPhobe

Eileen - I hate to be so negative, but there are so many red flags that are coming up with your description. It sounds like he is in the relatively early stages when he sees some problems with the pills, but doesn't really want to give them up. He plans on just cutting back some. Withdrawal causes all sorts of pain all over your body even without an underlying condition. The best way to describe it is a deep pain in your bones. The pain in the legs tend to be the worst. I would give someone 100-to-1 odds that he cuts back for a day or so, and then goes right back due to the pain. At that point it will be next to impossible to distinguish between real pain and the withdrawal pain. If he really has the underlying pain then he needs a real game plan on dealing with the pain without the narcotics. Just toughing it out is setting oneself up for failure out of the gate. I don't understand his logic about the in-patient facility, but addicts have very creative, loose standards when it comes to logic. If he is trying to wean off of the narcotics he is going to be faced with the underlying pain at some point.

The thrashing around that I am alluding to is where they get the term 'kicking the habit'. Your legs become incredibly restless and you have to keep them moving all the time. That eventually turns into literally kicking them into the bed. That restlessness can also move to your arms when it gets bad and you eventually just start flopping around like a fish. I went through withdrawal multiple times with my wife, and it would have been much, much better if I had done those somewhere outside of the house. Even staying at a hotel would have been better.

It is good to see that you are not going to be involved in his planning. He is a grown man and got himself in the situation. It is up to him to decide what he is going to do about it, and more importantly it is up to him to actually do it. The best laid plans go out the window once the first wave of withdrawal hits.

I think the more you can do to distance yourself from the whole thing the better. Coming off of the benzos is a whole different animal as cynical one alluded to. Needing to take valium and ambien to go to sleep every night (on top of all these narcotics) is no joke. It is his decision to ignore the medical advice given to him, and he could easily get himself in a dangerous situation. I hope you are able to get to a place where you can avoid getting dragged into this at home withdrawal. He has a huge pile of wood in front of him to chop, and as much as you would like to help him it is up to him to do the work. I wish you the best in dealing with this terrible situation.

mnh1982

My husband is going through this right now as a result of him thinking he could "wean" himself off Suboxone on his own, without consulting his doctor.

The result?

I have made it very clear that if he does not consult his doctor, restart his treatment & from here on out, consult with his doctor ANY TIME he is thinking he can "do it on his own", I will be leaving him. With our son.

It's absolutely unhealthy at best & dangerous at worst for someone to try & handle this kind of thing "on their own". And he's putting you in danger and at risk by asking you to just sit by & watch him do it, or worse, to support his self-care. It's NOT even care. It's just plain stupid.

I would not recommend just saying you're NOT going to get involved & just sit back & watch him do this, because in the end, your own situation relies heavily on his. If you refuse to get involved by voicing your opinions & trying to get him to get professional help I would really suggest finding somewhere else to stay for yourself if you need to leave home to avoid him.

Eileen01

zozo, Yep, I'm just glad I'm finally recognizing bunk when hear it! I feel what is best for me is to remain detached and continue to learn better how to detach with love. I've come a long way from where I used to be! :-)

Opi, OMG! AH speaks about pain that feels "deep within his bones." He's told doctors this and has had MRI's looking for bone cancer. I had no idea feeling pain this deep could arise from lowering the use of medication. It seems he waxes and wanes with this type of pain - has for several years. He's considered getting a W/C for when it's too much pain to walk! And thinks walking is the cause of the bone pain in his feet and legs. I'd take a guess that it's these times when he's perhaps trying to decrease the amount of pills he takes...?

I stayed with a girlfriend for a few days and returned earlier today. He was in good spirits and it's been business as usual with him back to bed since 3pm. He initiated dialogue about his pain so I took this opportunity to ask how his detoxing was coming along. It seems now that his intention was more of keeping track of what he takes, number wise, rather than detoxing or getting off the pills. According to him I misunderstood what he meant by the words "getting off his pills." He meant he was wanting to know what he was using on a daily basis so he can see if he can take less. ..... sigh.....

He's currently setting out his daily supply and supposedly only taking from that supply.

In any event, I'm aware this is all very serious for him. It is very concerning to me. I'm still planning to bring these topics up with the primary when he sees him.


mmh, I agree it's unhealthy and dangerous for AH to think he can manage detox on his own. Cutting back, I feel, should be done with doctor's input! Heck, I had a valid argument with AH being dishonest with his doctors and thinking he knew better how to take his meds. That's a huge reason why he finds himself where is he today. And yes, I would leave if I felt I needed to leave.

Most patients would never consider changing the doses of chemo unless told to do so by an MD. But with narcotics I guess some patients feel they know best...ha!

Sadly, he has no idea how deep he's spiraled into he**. He has no idea that any of his issues could possibly be caused by his Rx. drugs. In the past, anytime I've brought this up, the concept was always rejected.

If I had the backing of his primary doctor that he indeed may have a problem I would have no problem saying I'll leave if you don't get help to sort these issues out. As it is currently, AH is of the mindset that his chronic pain and other health issues are the problem. That if only the docs would find the source of the pain, all would be fine for him.

On a different thread someone commented about engaging in discussions with an AH. I laughed when someone commented they only chat with their A about the weather. My convo topics are usually weather, what do we want for dinner and do you have any appointments today.

Thank you all again for the input. I continue to learn and better learn how to navigate safely along this route.

Eileen01

mmh,

I forgot to add, I'm wishing you the best of luck as you deal with your AH.
I know it's that much more difficult when kids are in the mix.

Take care and stand firm with your AH!

(((hugs)))

OpioPhobe

Eileen - how are things going with your husband? I recently went through a switch from H to suboxone, and had another taste of the pain I described before. It can be quite severe, and can make walking difficult. Typically, fatigue would prevent me from walking around more than the pain would though. When going through it I would always stick to a bath rather than a shower, because I am able to get off my feet during a bath. The best thing about the bath is that you can pretty much eliminate the pain temporarily if you get the water nice and hot. I am not sure if he takes hot baths during the periods when he is dropping his doses, but it is a tremendous help for me.