The addict is our drug?

Old 08-25-2014, 12:03 PM
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I do think there is a learning curve and boy, I believe I have learned a lot.

Would I have done things differently if I had understood addiction, absolutely. However, I was very naive. My STBXAH was originally prescribed the pills, not that it matters, but I just "assumed" because the DR prescribed it, it was not an issue. Today, I would not just assume anything about drugs/addiction.

I thought I could just tell him to stop taking them, and that would be it. In fact, I believed it was. When I realized the problem was worse then I thought, I believed I could help him, that my love, our love would win out. I learned through many tears, that love had NOTHING to with addiction.

But more importantly, I have learned so much about myself through all this. I am glad I wasn't arrogant enough to believe he was the only one that had the problem. I tried to stay open minded and learn from those who walked before me. I still have a long way to go, but as long as I keep learning and moving forward, it's worth the journey.
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Old 08-25-2014, 12:32 PM
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Also, regarding the cancer comments. Many loved ones of a sick spouse or child become very codependent, emotionally and physically sick. It is not uncommon for family members to seek out counseling and/or supports groups. So I am perplexed how that analogy holds any weight on this topic.
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Old 08-25-2014, 01:05 PM
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Watch a few people trying to go and maintain no contact...that looks to me like addiction.
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Old 08-25-2014, 06:26 PM
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Originally Posted by BlueChair View Post
I agree there would be a learning curve especially for someone who got involved with an active addict but had no experience in dealing with addiction. Or when it happens out of the blue, like it did for me !

Its not even like everyone who is addicted is an obvious addict. A lot of people are highly functional, and hide their addictions. They work, take care of their kids and we may have people in our lives right now we see everyday who are addicted and we just don’t know it. We wouldn’t until we got really close, saw them at the wrong moment, or witness them getting high. And then it takes time to process this information and weigh it against our own beliefs, and how this relationship affects our lives.

My husband used drugs in college, then he quit and didn’t use again for about 8 years at the time he relapsed. Hes a wonderful man with a long list of positive adjectives I could use to describe him. I wasn’t codependent to get involved with him. When he relapsed last year it threw me and left me in shock and very confused. I only knew what was going on for a couple of weeks before he got really sick, went missing. His parents were excellent and like with any other illness they worked to find him the best care, and I don’t think this is codependent either. Luckily he accepted it !

We work as a team in his recovery, do family counseling and all the rest and I don’t think this is codependent either especially because his doctors recommend it.

I also don’t think Im codependent to stay with him while hes recovering from this. Not codependent because Im willing to accept possibility of a future relapse. To me it would be like saying don’t stay with anyone who has a flaw, or anyone who has a serious illness and it might return one day.

Theres a lot goes on when dealing with addiction, and its ongoing feelings, question, constant learning. It’s a shame there isnt a Codependency Forum here on SR to go along with the Friends and Family of Substance Abusers forum. But I learn something from everyone here so maybe its just as well.
I totally agree. I especially like your point about not every addict being an obvious one. When I first discovered my son was doing drugs he was living with me and his wife and children were also. My husband and I and his wife didn't know. We really didn't.

Looking back there were signs but we didn't see them or attributed them to something else. He is a binge user meaning that he goes long periods without using and then when he has a crisis of some kind he does drugs. With that type of addict it is even harder to tell because for chunks of time he IS sober. It is really hard actually because there will be times when you think he is getting better but then it happens again so you really never know. So frustrating.

I think a co-dependency section on the forum would be a good thing.

Kari
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Old 08-25-2014, 06:53 PM
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Since this forum states - "Open to all who love someone who is addicted to drugs, whether they have admitted a problem or not. Discuss coping tools, and learn basic recovery techniques for you, not the addict", I really don't think a codependent section is needed. Perhaps the "non codependents" should ask for their own.
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Old 08-26-2014, 12:07 AM
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Originally Posted by KariSue View Post
I totally agree. I especially like your point about not every addict being an obvious one. When I first discovered my son was doing drugs he was living with me and his wife and children were also. My husband and I and his wife didn't know. We really didn't.

Looking back there were signs but we didn't see them or attributed them to something else. He is a binge user meaning that he goes long periods without using and then when he has a crisis of some kind he does drugs. With that type of addict it is even harder to tell because for chunks of time he IS sober. It is really hard actually because there will be times when you think he is getting better but then it happens again so you really never know. So frustrating.

I think a co-dependency section on the forum would be a good thing.

Kari
With my husband very few people, to this day.. know he was ever addicted to drugs. I think some people realized he wasn't well.. he lost weight, was more unkempt, and probably acted a little strange at times.. but the fact that it was an addiction escaped most people. Whats funny is Ive even had a few people say that our separation was so hard on him, he looked like he was having a rough time and they are so happy we got back together. I just laugh and say it was hard on me too, and Im also really happy we are back together. LOL

I personally think this is a much more common scenario especially when your dealing with prescription drug abuse and addiction. I can see this with a binge user also. Something happens he cant deal with and he binges, then goes back to normal... Hard to say what is going on with his GF but maybe she is also weighing the totality of it all, can see patterns where good times are getting longer.. etc. I don't like to try to judge others but I know it can truly be complicated.

I also think it would be logical to have a forum specifically for codependency where it could be discussed in detail. Being a F&F of a substance abuse doesn't equate with codependency, but its talked about so much here I think people get confused. I also think as Chino said.. a lot of people don't stick around... I think its because if newcomers don't buy into the codependency concept they feel uncomfortable here as its almost pushed to a certain degree.
Just my opinion of course.. as that's what I felt as a newcomer.

I also don't think its insulting to suggest there should be a specific forum for this topic because its obvious its important to a lot of members. We have mental health forums, anxiety, eating disorders, insomnia... why not codependency...
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Old 08-26-2014, 04:05 AM
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Thanks for all the comments and observations. I'm a newbie to DA. Survivor of a marriage to an A who is now sober.

I remember how very, very enmeshed I got in getting him sober. The comments that resonated with me are the comments about trying to control....if I have an addiction, it would be control. I can remember turning the house upside down looking for bottles. Not as easy to do with an adult child living outside the house but I can ruminate end about what he can and should do to get his life in order.

I suppose its not so much (in my case) an addiction to the addict as much as an addiction to the drama.....his needs come first and the work I need to complete in my life falls by the wayside.

It's much easier for me to see the speck in his eye than the log in my own....and I rationalize.

Thanks friends,

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Old 08-26-2014, 04:42 AM
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Originally Posted by allforcnm View Post
With my husband very few people, to this day.. know he was ever addicted to drugs. I think some people realized he wasn't well.. he lost weight, was more unkempt, and probably acted a little strange at times.. but the fact that it was an addiction escaped most people. Whats funny is Ive even had a few people say that our separation was so hard on him, he looked like he was having a rough time and they are so happy we got back together. I just laugh and say it was hard on me too, and Im also really happy we are back together. LOL

I personally think this is a much more common scenario especially when your dealing with prescription drug abuse and addiction. I can see this with a binge user also. Something happens he cant deal with and he binges, then goes back to normal... Hard to say what is going on with his GF but maybe she is also weighing the totality of it all, can see patterns where good times are getting longer.. etc. I don't like to try to judge others but I know it can truly be complicated.

I also think it would be logical to have a forum specifically for codependency where it could be discussed in detail. Being a F&F of a substance abuse doesn't equate with codependency, but its talked about so much here I think people get confused. I also think as Chino said.. a lot of people don't stick around... I think its because if newcomers don't buy into the codependency concept they feel uncomfortable here as its almost pushed to a certain degree.
Just my opinion of course.. as that's what I felt as a newcomer.

I also don't think its insulting to suggest there should be a specific forum for this topic because its obvious its important to a lot of members. We have mental health forums, anxiety, eating disorders, insomnia... why not codependency...
It's true that many addicts who are functional slip under the radar. They hold down full time jobs and people don't suspect.

With my son's ex, the divorce was hard on him too. Of course he turned to drugs to dull the pain and lived with us at the time. Fun times. *rolls eyes* I'm sure it was hard on your husband but people never know the "rest" of the story. Lucky us, lol.

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Old 08-26-2014, 05:06 AM
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I also think it would be logical to have a forum specifically for codependency where it could be discussed in detail. Being a F&F of a substance abuse doesn't equate with codependency, but its talked about so much here I think people get confused. I also think as Chino said.. a lot of people don't stick around... I think its because if newcomers don't buy into the codependency concept they feel uncomfortable here as its almost pushed to a certain degree.
Just my opinion of course.. as that's what I felt as a newcomer.
As a member here for more than 12 years, I'd like to comment on this. This forum was originally called Nar-Anon and the FFA forum was Al-anon. Because of copyright issues the names were changed. Also, the concept never fit exactly because we have always welcomed people with no program at all, those who considered themselves codependent (like me) and those who denied any feelings of codependency (like you).

For 12 years this forum has welcomed all who love an addict...period...that was the only qualification to be here.

A special forum was started for those who wanted to share and not discuss 12-step at all...and it's hardly used. To divide the members into groups of "those who think they are codependent and those who deny that codependency exists or that they are not one, simply further divides the members here, putting them into "categories" and I think that is wrong and hope it never happens or doesn't happen again.

This is a forum where we embrace our diversity and to try to split it up because of our differences is just wrong...on many levels.

People who don't stick around, choose to leave for many reasons...often their lives get better or their crisis is over, some don't like other members here...but in 12 years I have never heard once of any member leaving because they felt left out by "codependents", not once, not ever.

I think that needed to be clarified here today by sharing my 12 years of experience here. I mean no disrespect to any member here, it's simply the truth and history of why these forums are as they are and I say this so that new members do not feel the need to categorize themselves or feel they should be segregated to another forum.

To the original poster here, I hope I have not thrown your thread off balance. You asked why we consider our codendency in a similar way, as addiction to our addicts.

Please know that this is a very good question and one that deserves the respect of all codependents who have wondered this too.

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Old 08-26-2014, 06:33 AM
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There is no need for different forums, just a need to have an open mind and allow others to travel their own path. There's no need to debate the matter either, since it's up to the individual to decide what fits.

If a term or a subject or a thread triggers a response that provides nothing but an opportunity to argue the point, it's only fair to pass on responding for the sake of the OP and others who benefit from all experieinces.
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Old 08-26-2014, 06:36 AM
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Originally Posted by allforcnm View Post
With my husband very few people, to this day.. know he was ever addicted to drugs. I think some people realized he wasn't well.. he lost weight, was more unkempt, and probably acted a little strange at times.. but the fact that it was an addiction escaped most people. Whats funny is Ive even had a few people say that our separation was so hard on him, he looked like he was having a rough time and they are so happy we got back together. I just laugh and say it was hard on me too, and Im also really happy we are back together. LOL

I personally think this is a much more common scenario especially when your dealing with prescription drug abuse and addiction. I can see this with a binge user also. Something happens he cant deal with and he binges, then goes back to normal... Hard to say what is going on with his GF but maybe she is also weighing the totality of it all, can see patterns where good times are getting longer.. etc. I don't like to try to judge others but I know it can truly be complicated.

I also think it would be logical to have a forum specifically for codependency where it could be discussed in detail. Being a F&F of a substance abuse doesn't equate with codependency, but its talked about so much here I think people get confused. I also think as Chino said.. a lot of people don't stick around... I think its because if newcomers don't buy into the codependency concept they feel uncomfortable here as its almost pushed to a certain degree.
Just my opinion of course.. as that's what I felt as a newcomer.

I also don't think its insulting to suggest there should be a specific forum for this topic because its obvious its important to a lot of members. We have mental health forums, anxiety, eating disorders, insomnia... why not codependency...
Other than the perhaps more obvious "smell" of someone who has been drinking heavily, heavy prescription drug abusers, like alcoholics, often THINK that no one else knows or that they are hiding it well. However, people know something is different---more people than you think, or than you might want to believe. Over time, over a period of years, when people act bizarrely or as if they're "on drugs"....people know. Thinking otherwise is all part of the "my addict is special" mentality that so many of us have.

As for your other topic, getting hung up on the term "codependency" is not of any benefit, and dividing up those who believe they are codependents from those who don't believe they are would also serve no purpose. It's not as if most of people who might be codependent even realize they are at first, so having those people start in a separate forum will only make them label themselves when they have no knowledge base to place that label. The reality is that most people married to addicts have had negative experiences with addiction (to say the least), and this fact should be shared with those who are new. I believe if this saves one person from getting wrapped up in 20 years of pain with an addict and ruining their lives, it's worth a few unnecessary "codependent" labels.
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Old 08-26-2014, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by qwer1234 View Post
Hi,

I'm pouring over the threads and reading....I've read a few times, the addict becomes our drug or that we become addicted to the addict.

I understand enabling and co-dependency, but I'm having trouble understanding the concept of being addicted to the addict?

Thoughts or examples?

Thank you,

qwer
Just a reminder: This is the original post. Let's try and stay on topic.
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Old 08-26-2014, 10:37 AM
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Heh, fair enough Cece.

I suppose for me, I wasn't really addicted to the actual person, my partner. I think what I was addicted to was the illusion of my partner that I had created in my mind. It was something that went far back, something that was there and that was an unhealthy part of our relationship right at the beginning. This something was a neediness he had, one that fulfilling made me feel loved and important.

This was a wonderful feeling in the beginning, but is what got me in trouble as the relationship changed, and I started rescuing, enabling, and generally refusing to see that my own responses were no longer appropriate, that they were harming me.

It wasn't the addict himself that I was addicted to. It was that sense of being loved, needed and important that I was addicted to.

We think that love and marriage will seal us to a person in happiness for ever, but that all flies out the window when the craziness of addiction comes into the mix.
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Old 08-26-2014, 11:05 AM
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NAB, I think it was not so different for me. I "needed" to be needed and to think that I was the one person who could save my son...from his past abuse with his birth family and from his addiction. I had a mission and set the entire rest of my life aside to fulfill it.

I "needed" the fix of being more important to my son than his past or his drugs.

Of course, I failed miserably. I could not get back the "loving, kind, funny, respectful" son I once knew.

Like an addict who uses to try to re-experience that first euphoria of drug use, and who chases it with more of the same behaviour to try to get what he will never get again...I chased the euphoria of the illusion that I could and would save my son.

The truth was brutal, I never had that control to begin with, nor should I. No matter how many times I did the same thing over and over, I never got different results. And that, my dear, is insanity...and codependency in its worst form.

I am not ashamed that my codependency led me to crazy behaviour, I am sorry it did and grateful I over came it all and came out on the other side wiser for the journey, but I left my shame at the door of my first CoDA meeting and have never gone back to pick it up. It no longer belongs to me.

The addict is our drug? Qwer, maybe the answer to your question is not so much that the addict is our drug...but that the drug our addict uses leads us all to a crazy way of living and makes us as sick as they are unless we find recovery,or they do, and we let that lead us to a better path.

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Old 08-26-2014, 11:11 AM
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Hmm, i don't agree with that our addict is our drug or that there is no learning curve or that everyone involved with an addict is codependent.
I knew that the man i was falling in love with had a drug problem in the past. Did i know what it means? No! How should I? I was never exposed to addiction, and all i knew was based on social stereotypes, movies or books. So when I found out about his relapse, i was shocked,confused, scared and extremely worried. I had no idea what it means. So i came here to find out more and looking for help.
Codependency is a big topic around here. and yes, i felt overwhelmed and even more scared when someone asked me what is wrong with me, that i fell for this person. I am pretty sure I am NOT codependent and yet i stayed here. Yes, i still care deeply for this man and yes, i still want to be with him after everything i learned. Who knows me knows I'm a smart girl,and if I ever end up with him i certainly would have my boundaries. I am aware that i can't cure his addiction, so i'm not even trying. BUT i know he's trying really hart and so far doing very good regarding his sobriety. So i don't want to cure him, but i want to support him. Am i addicted to him? Not more as if I would like a non-addict.
So, for me as a newbie it was scaring to read that there might be something wrong with me. It didn't help me in the overall confusion i felt back then. I moved to the Substance abuse section because i felt that i got more help there. I wanted to understand what's going on,what it means to be addicted/loving an addict so i could make up my own mind about it.
I think a forum for codependents would make sense. Not everyone chooses to leave the addict, and as i stated not everyone is codependent. Yet there come a lot of questions with loving an addict (whatever our relationship to them is) and it's rough, but i made the experience that those threads often go back to those questions what's wrong with you, why don't you leave him, etc.
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Old 08-26-2014, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by qwer1234 View Post
Hi,

I'm pouring over the threads and reading....I've read a few times, the addict becomes our drug or that we become addicted to the addict.

I understand enabling and co-dependency, but I'm having trouble understanding the concept of being addicted to the addict?

Thoughts or examples?

Thank you,

qwer
Welcome. I'm sorry your thread has turned into a debate on unrelated topics. Please check out the stickies at the top of this page and also at the top of the Friends and Family of Alcoholics page.
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Old 08-26-2014, 12:39 PM
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Qwer,
I'm sorry that we just can't stay on topic here. I'm afraid that I have to close this thread. I hope you will consider starting a new thread so that poster may reply with experience relevent to your topic.
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