Was she too harsh?

Old 06-16-2014, 02:02 PM
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Was she too harsh?

So I decided to tell my best friend what had been going on with my boyfriend and I (my boyfriends relapse). Even though he has been clean for a little while now, and seems to be doing really good, she asked me how things have been with us so I decided to tell her. Thinking she's my best friend, she'll give me some support..right?

A little background info on her. I have not seen her in 3 months and we have rarely talked, she lives 15 minutes away. She is wrapped up in her new boyfriend (kind of fiance), and she's the kind of person that forgets her friends when she is in a relationship. Pretty much the only times I've talked to her recently are when she needs to call me to vent about something or asking for advice. But last night was the first time she's asked me in a very long time how I am, so I told her.

I told her about his relapse, and she went straight to "Leave him" "Do you really want to marry this man and have his take all of your money out of the accounts?" (Mind you, I've NEVER talked about marriage with him. We don't fantasize about marriage like she does.... ps. she's already engaged to her new boyfriend, and she's not even divorced yet) "Do you want this man to abandon you and your kids?" (Who said anything about kids?) blah blah.. all of these HORRIBLE situations.. Now, I KNOW that all of these situations are very real and happen to people who are with addicts every single day. I know it's a true reality. However, people also CAN get clean and stay clean.. Just because you are an addict does not mean that you will relapse after relapse after relapse for the rest of your life. It all depends on how bad you want it.

Her father is a crack addict that has never been in her life, so I understand why she has such strong negative opinions about it. But I just didn't expect her to be SO negative. All I really needed from her was, "wow. be careful. i love you. i'm here for you." Not her pretty much telling me I'm stupid for holding on to hope that this won't happen again. I'm not holding on to hope that this won't happen again, but I AM holding on to hope that he can put this addiction in to remission for a long time, if not forever if he really wants to. I know addiction is like cancer, it can never be cured, but you can treat it.

And I am not a weak person, I simply gave him another chance, but would never allow him to relapse in our relationship over and over and still be with him. I WILL WALK AWAY if I need to. But is it so wrong of me to love him enough to stick around for now, when he's doing so good? I don't think so.

If he relapses again in a week, that is a different story. But I deserve to be happy with him right now. Not many addicts have a person in their life who is rooting for them, and I am giving him that. I want him to win.

I told her that she was an addict for love, which is very very true. I told her not everything in life is a fairy tale, and she craves fairy tales. That is why she moves from man to man and falls "head over heels" in love with her "soul mate" (I didn't know that there are 10 soul mates for each 1 person?). I know it wasn't mature or nice to go tit for tat with her, but I wanted her to know that nobody is perfect. Fairy tales do not exist in this world.

It just really made me angry that she only saw the negative part of this situation .. She had zero hope that things will ever work out with us, and that's something that nobody knows the outcome of. "I only know of 1 success story about someone who has been clean for 20+ years" she said. She also only knows like 3 addicts. I've been to countless meetings with my boyfriend, and know way more about addiction now then I ever thought I would know, there are many people who can "beat" their addiction.

I don't know, I guess I'm venting myself. I don't know why she was so harsh about it, without even hearing the other side of it. I feel like she was unfair.. Am I wrong?

(Like I said, I know all the scenarios she said could very well happen if I stayed with him, married him, had kids with him, while he was still using, etc.. I know the reality of that. I deal every day with wondering if I can stay with him always having his addiction in the back of my mind, and that is something I will work out in my own time. I just wished she realized it doesn't ALWAYS have to be that way)

Thank you
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Old 06-16-2014, 02:05 PM
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As a recovering addict alcoholic myself, the answer to your question is no, she was not too harsh.

She has seen it with her father, and she was being honest with you.

What SHE does, has nothing to do with the advice that she gave you, which sounds solid to me. Shes absolutely right. You probably owe her an apology. Attacking her choices doesnt legitimize yours.
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Old 06-16-2014, 02:10 PM
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I am sorry. Is it possible she simply misunderstood what you need. I have found that in my life there have been times I have had to say, "What I really need at this time is your support. I will come to decisions in my own time but what I really need now is just your support and friendship."

Sometimes by being very direct about what you need it can be a relief to both of you.

I think it's great you are being open and honest. Keep in mind however, you love this person. Others who express their opinion may love you but not him and worry about if this is good for you or not. Loving an addict is hard, that is for sure.

Tight Hugs, we are here for you!
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Old 06-16-2014, 02:22 PM
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My mentor taught me a valuable lesson way back in the day. If someone asks you for your opinion on something, ask that person, "Do you really want to know what I think?" And if they say yes, then you have permission to voice your opinion.

With that out of the way, as I speak as an impartial observer, your friend did raise legitimate questions. Could she have been more diplomatic in the way she did so? Sure. But maybe she's not capable at this point in her life of being that nuanced. A lot of people aren't.

My friends hated the decisions I made regarding my AXGF, right up to the end. But they understood why I made those decisions. They allowed me the right to be wrong, knowing that I was responsible to myself for whatever boneheaded calls I made, not them. So you're not responsible to your friend if things blow up in your face. You're responsible to yourself.

As for whatever issues your friend has regarding how she deals with her stuff in her life, that's her stuff, not yours.

What I would encourage you to do is think about what she said as dispassionately as you can and see if they're anything you can take from it. Sorta like the spirit of Al Anon -- take what you like and leave the rest.
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Old 06-16-2014, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by zoso77 View Post
My mentor taught me a valuable lesson way back in the day. If someone asks you for your opinion on something, ask that person, "Do you really want to know what I think?" And if they say yes, then you have permission to voice your opinion.

With that out of the way, as I speak as an impartial observer, your friend did raise legitimate questions. Could she have been more diplomatic in the way she did so? Sure. But maybe she's not capable at this point in her life of being that nuanced. A lot of people aren't.

My friends hated the decisions I made regarding my AXGF, right up to the end. But they understood why I made those decisions. They allowed me the right to be wrong, knowing that I was responsible to myself for whatever boneheaded calls I made, not them. So you're not responsible to your friend if things blow up in your face. You're responsible to yourself.

As for whatever issues your friend has regarding how she deals with her stuff in her life, that's her stuff, not yours.

What I would encourage you to do is think about what she said as dispassionately as you can and see if they're anything you can take from it. Sorta like the spirit of Al Anon -- take what you like and leave the rest.
Yeah. I know all her points were valid. I guess I just didn't expect her to be so harsh, even though her only experience is with her father.. And I know it's played a huge part in her life. I only wished she realized that not all addiction stories end badly, some people DO come out on top.. I know I shouldn't have said the hurtful things I said to her, I am stubborn, and will eventually apologize. I just thought I'd get more support from a best friend. It shouldn't have had to be asked for. Especially when she knows I've kept this to myself for a reason.
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Old 06-16-2014, 02:51 PM
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I guess I just didn't expect her to be so harsh, even though her only experience is with her father..
That "experience" is huge, Bella. And it's very real. It's partly why I said that she may not be capable of nuance.

Anyways, you have to follow your own path, and we'll be here while you do.
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Old 06-16-2014, 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by zoso77 View Post
That "experience" is huge, Bella. And it's very real. It's partly why I said that she may not be capable of nuance.

Anyways, you have to follow your own path, and we'll be here while you do.
Thank you zoso .. I am strong enough to leave if he relapses again. I will never let this ruin/control my life. I just am not ready to do so now. I don't think he deserves that now. Everyone's entitled to mess up, even though I know that doesn't make things right.

I'd be lost without this site, most people have been nothing but helpful.
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Old 06-16-2014, 07:24 PM
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Originally Posted by bellanoviella View Post
Yeah. I know all her points were valid. I guess I just didn't expect her to be so harsh, even though her only experience is with her father.. And I know it's played a huge part in her life. I only wished she realized that not all addiction stories end badly, some people DO come out on top.. I know I shouldn't have said the hurtful things I said to her, I am stubborn, and will eventually apologize. I just thought I'd get more support from a best friend. It shouldn't have had to be asked for. Especially when she knows I've kept this to myself for a reason.
MOST addiction stories play badly. Read up in friends and family and see all the stories of heartache and ruined lives.
Your friend did something admirable, IMHO. She risked pissing you off to express her concern for you in a way that was probably very difficult, regarding some hard learned lessons from her own life.

You can HOPE that your guy is gonna be the one or two percent that get better, but your friend is seeing it with both eyes wide open.

You aren't married, you don't have kids, and yet you are choosing to be in a very difficult life EVEN IF HE STAYS SOBER.

I think you need to examine what you mean by the word support. If all you want is your friend to blow smoke and tell you whatever you are doing is great, well, that's not honest.

I think she sounds like a true friend, who is really speaking out for your self interest.

Most addiction stories are a nightmare, and rarely do they end well.

How old are you, and why don't you desire better for yourself?
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Old 06-16-2014, 07:46 PM
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Originally Posted by DoubleBarrel View Post
MOST addiction stories play badly. Read up in friends and family and see all the stories of heartache and ruined lives.
Your friend did something admirable, IMHO. She risked pissing you off to express her concern for you in a way that was probably very difficult, regarding some hard learned lessons from her own life.

You can HOPE that your guy is gonna be the one or two percent that get better, but your friend is seeing it with both eyes wide open.

You aren't married, you don't have kids, and yet you are choosing to be in a very difficult life EVEN IF HE STAYS SOBER.

I think you need to examine what you mean by the word support. If all you want is your friend to blow smoke and tell you whatever you are doing is great, well, that's not honest.

I think she sounds like a true friend, who is really speaking out for your self interest.

Most addiction stories are a nightmare, and rarely do they end well.

How old are you, and why don't you desire better for yourself?
What does my age matter? I have a good job, I'm a full time student, I've done really well for myself so far and I will be successful in life because I have a good head on my shoulders. Why does me giving my addict boyfriend a second chance mean that I don't desire better things for myself?? I've never once lost sight of myself in this situation, slowed down my progress, or let it interfere with my goals.. I love him so I'm trying to see him get better. But I love me more, and will never allow his addiction to break me down.
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Old 06-16-2014, 08:33 PM
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The reason your age matters is because when you are young, as you obviously are, these things are often looked at from a different perspective.

In my AA home group, and MOST of the other ones that I have attended, I would say the average age is about fifty.

Are you willing to spend the next twenty years dealing with active addiction? Relapse after relapse?
You say that you won't tolerate it, but you already have. And you know what, the next time will happen, and you'll tell yourself, this time he got it. He really seems remorseful this time. He's hit bottom. And again and again.

It seems you just want people to tell you what you want to hear. You ASK for advice, but then argue against it.

I'm not trying to convince you of anything, but it seems your view of what you are facing is unrealistic.

I ask why you don't want better things for yourself because most people at a young age will run from almost certain disaster, yet you seem to believe in a very small chance of a good resolution. As you say, giving your addict boyfriend another chance.

I know there are a great many people here who started out much like yourself, believing that they would never be dragged down by an addict, yet here they are.

You are already here, despite your rosy predictions. Again, is this what you want out of a relationship? You say it hasn't interfered with your goals, is being with an addict one of your goals? If not, I'd say it already is.

In either case, I wish you all the luck in the world. I hope that I am wrong about this guy.
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Old 06-16-2014, 08:35 PM
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Why question whether or not to give your addicted boyfriend another chance or not?

Because you are at a place in your life where you have the independence and financial and emotional health to do so; and because you are not yet in so deep that is terribly difficult to unwind the strands that bind you to an addict.

If you went to the racetrack and you had the chance of betting on a horse that had a good solid history of winning races, or one that had no history of long term success and had the odds all against them, which would you choose? And most important, what is your reasoning for choosing one over the other, and what does it say about you?

What people are talking about here is the amount of risk that you are willing to incur, and to invest in by continuing a relationship with a man who has a major and self-imposed handicap that will require him to apply fierce self discipline for the rest of his life if he is to surmount it.

Your girlfriend, as the daughter of a crack addict, had no power to choose or not choose her father, and she evidently suffered greatly. I think she is just trying to share her experience with you.

If I were in your situation, I would not be defending my boyfriend or wondering how I could be supportive because nothing you do will, in the end, make a bit of difference. What he does or does not do is solely a measure of his strength and commitment to health.

I would be asking myself why I was attracted to a life situation with such poor odds for health and happiness.

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Old 06-17-2014, 12:38 AM
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I think I would have similar feelings if I got a chance to catch up with an old friend after several months.. correct me if Im wrong, but it doesn’t sound like she allowed you to explain your feelings, or the situation with your BF in detail…it doesn’t sound like there wasnt much listening, sharing, discussion. It was more like she heard drugs, relapse, meetings and immediately started expressing her feeling on addicts which of course were influenced by her own negative experiences.

Her experience is her own and she has every right to her opinion, and Im sure she shared with genuine concern for your welfare, but I would have walked away feeling disappointed in the overall interaction.

Was she harsh in her comments? Based on her experiences maybe not. As you said there are many horrible stories about addiction, and tragic loss of life caused by addiction. She experienced separation from her father due to addiction and probably grew up with certain beliefs.

However there are also MANY people … who recover and go on to lead normal, healthy, happy, responsible productive lives. The vast majority of people are said to recover from addiction on their own without any assistance....In my husbands case he stopped using drugs just over 2 years ago and hasn’t looked back. He continues to see an addiction doctor monthly for therapy, but otherwise his life is basically back to pre-addiction levels. He will always be susceptible to relapse but that doesn’t mean it will ever become a pattern of behavior.

But in the beginning especially.. we just don't know how it will go.

Im not encouraging you to stay in the relationship, or making light of active addiction because it almost destroyed my marriage and left my son without a father. But at the same time, I believe in recovery.

I think the best suggestion I can make is to continue educating yourself on addiction from all perspectives, and take things slow. It sounds like you have good boundaries and a pretty full life of your own to keep you grounded.
When my husband was in rehab I started working with a therapist. Much of what I was taught during this time about addiction, relapse, recovery can be found by reading over at National Institute of Drug Abuse. They have a section for family and friends and various free publications. The following link leads to info on recovery and relapse. It might be helpful for you: Treatment and Recovery | National Institute on Drug Abuse (NIDA)
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Old 06-17-2014, 03:19 AM
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Bella,

I know that it hurts when others point out the negative, but this is coming from those who understand the pain of getting burned.. they would wish for you to run the other way, spare yourself the heartache and pain that may likely occur.

People do recover! Not all, maybe not the majority , as I understand it. But if you want to give it a go, then that is your decision. If it gets too painful, you can exit, knowing you tried. Please take care, If I may get personal, to wait on children, as that will only add an innocent child to a frightening situation. Like your friend... I would guess that she has experienced great pain from having an addicted father. She spoke from a place of pain. and does not wish the same for any one else, especially a child, as she mentioned. If she is a BF, forgive her, for her fears are legitimate.

Your boyfriend may recover, and as you said, it is not ever cured, and they must always be vigilant in protecting their recovery. For me, it is like building a house on unstable ground, always the chance that it can go bad.. But you are the one who has to decide, and you are smart enough to take care of yourself.

I wish you the best! and your boyfriend too.
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Old 06-17-2014, 06:15 AM
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Originally Posted by allforcnm View Post
I think I would have similar feelings if I got a chance to catch up with an old friend after several months.. correct me if Im wrong, but it doesn’t sound like she allowed you to explain your feelings, or the situation with your BF in detail…it doesn’t sound like there wasnt much listening, sharing, discussion. It was more like she heard drugs, relapse, meetings and immediately started expressing her feeling on addicts which of course were influenced by her own negative experiences.
Yes.. it was more of her not caring to hear any details. And I understand why she has such strong feelings about it, I really do, I just didn't expect that that's all. I expected her to point out the negatives to me, and to watch out for me, but I didn't expect her to only see the one side of it. Even though the percentage of people who get clean and stay clean is low compared to the percentage of active users, there still is a chance he can pull out of this.

I won't stick around if things get bad again. It's not like our whole relationship has been him relapsing time after time after time again. It's something that he battled with for a month, and has so far pulled himself out of (20 days clean).

I have boundaries, and I have actions in place if and when things go bad.

Thank you for your understanding post
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Old 06-17-2014, 06:26 AM
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Originally Posted by chicory View Post
Bella,

I know that it hurts when others point out the negative, but this is coming from those who understand the pain of getting burned.. they would wish for you to run the other way, spare yourself the heartache and pain that may likely occur.

People do recover! Not all, maybe not the majority , as I understand it. But if you want to give it a go, then that is your decision. If it gets too painful, you can exit, knowing you tried. Please take care, If I may get personal, to wait on children, as that will only add an innocent child to a frightening situation. Like your friend... I would guess that she has experienced great pain from having an addicted father. She spoke from a place of pain. and does not wish the same for any one else, especially a child, as she mentioned. If she is a BF, forgive her, for her fears are legitimate.

Your boyfriend may recover, and as you said, it is not ever cured, and they must always be vigilant in protecting their recovery. For me, it is like building a house on unstable ground, always the chance that it can go bad.. But you are the one who has to decide, and you are smart enough to take care of yourself.

I wish you the best! and your boyfriend too.
Thank you Chicory. I am not bothered with a future involving kids with him, that's something I would never consider unless he had some serious clean time under his belt again, but that's neither here nor there. And you're right, I am the one who has to decide. I battle every day with whether things could eventually be okay enough for me to trust him again and go back to how we used to be, but I know that will never happen, this has permanently fractured our relationship. I'm just not ready to give up just yet. Not when he's currently doing so good, it doesn't seem right.

I know it will be a hard decision when that time comes, and I should probably leave now to save myself from extreme heartache since the odds are not in his favor, I know that's the logical thing to do .. But what if they are in his favor? I know it's not likely. His brother has 11 years clean, and he has a great support system, I'm hoping that helps.

But as I've said, I won't stick around if it happens again, I KNOW everyone says that ...

I'm just taking day by day and enjoying my time with my clean happy boyfriend. Whatever happens tomorrow, I'll deal with that then.

I always look forward to your posts Chicory, thank you.
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Old 06-17-2014, 06:40 AM
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Originally Posted by allforcnm View Post

Was she harsh in her comments? Based on her experiences maybe not. As you said there are many horrible stories about addiction, and tragic loss of life caused by addiction. She experienced separation from her father due to addiction and probably grew up with certain beliefs.
She was a little harsh. When I told her what happened and her first reply was "leave him" (this was through text messaging by the way, she wouldn't answer her phone for some reason) and I tried to explain a little more, whatever I said to her seemed to go through one ear and out of the other. She never commented on any specific thing I said, I'm not sure if she even read it, she just talked about the worst case scenarios that I could face and that was it.
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Old 06-17-2014, 06:59 AM
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Bella, just wanted to say hello and tell you I am here to listen and support. I really cannot add anymore than what other's have stated. My post would have been much along the lines of what Chicory stated, that it sounds like your friend's reaction and words come from a very deep pain having an addicted father. While I realize her reaction felt strong, please try to realize her childhood had to be pretty brutal watching that so give her a break on the roughness. It sounds like she was worried for you and your future and you cannot fault that in a friend, at least she cares!
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Old 06-17-2014, 11:22 AM
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My now husband told me he was clean when we got back together after 5 years off and on relationship. We got married 2 years later..and now married for three. He moved out of our house together a month ago....and is still using. what is worse is he has his 28 year old now out of prison son who is a user living with him...and they hussle together.
Its a miserable life..and I wish i could get the last five years back
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Old 06-17-2014, 12:36 PM
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Bella, try to keep in mind, sometimes when a person has suffered through loving someone with an addiction it brings up such panic in them that it may not bring out their best side.

Yes, she should listen to you, and she should support you. However, it is very likely that what she has went through brings up very strong emoations that she does not want you to experience also.

No matter what you decide, we are here for you along the way!
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Old 06-18-2014, 07:27 AM
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How much time in recovery will he need to have before you feel comfortable? And do you realize that no matter what amount of time you set that all he will have is today.

Life long disease, and about the worst class of drugs to be addicted to because the ramifications of that will carry throughout his life.

And so the story goes. I wouldn’t even give a relapse statistic for the first year, hell he has to live through it first … Maybe after that year he might get lucky and be one of the 2-5 percent who don’t relapse. But the odds don’t get better with time passing. It can be easier for him but there is still no guarantee.

Your friend no matter how obvious her pain was did the best thing she could, she showed you her reality of addiction. Maybe some of what you are taking away from it all, like the fact that you don’t think she listened to anything you said is because she did and had heard that all before…

I think that one thing you are missing in this moment is that each day involved, is another day invested…How invested will you be after 1, 2, 5 years if life steps in and things go back to today? Are you so sure it will be easy to walk away …

Take good care of yourself.
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