Addiction HAS to be ugly.....
Getting there!!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 5,750
Addiction HAS to be ugly.....
I have asked myself so many times and often read......why does the addict have to act so nasty and ugly? Why does it have to be such a selfish disease? It's mostly the behaviors (the lying, manipulation, deflecting, etc) of the addict that makes many of his so angry and hurt.
I subscribe to the theory that an addict must feel the pain before they want recovery. The pain of using must outweigh the desire to feel good or numb themselves. It must outweigh their fear of stopping!!
Now, if an addict was truly only hurting themselves, many of us would continue to love them right into their grave or simply continue to enable them for the rest of their lives. Even with their atrocious behaviors, many of us struggle to stop enabling. We still want to show them how much we love them and somehow hope our love will help them see their own self worth....all while knowing it doesn't work that way.
Yet, the addict continues on with such destructive behaviors eventually forcing us to change our thinking and our own behaviors......sometimes kicking and screaming.
I suddenly have a new thought about their behaviors. Could it be that their behaviors our so ugly and unacceptable so that we will step away and allow them to feel their pain?? Is this God's plan? Is it our own need to rescue them that keeps the addiction fed, refusing to allow them to feel the pain?
I know we didn't cause it, can't control it or can't cure it but boy, I am strong believer that we can contribute to it.
I think I finally understand what has been said to me so many times but refused to believe it. "The most loving thing you can do is to let go." I let go thinking I was doing what was best for me but it sure helps knowing that it is the most loving thing I can do for him too. And I strongly believe it is.
I pray to GOD that my husband's pain and all of our loved ones pain becomes too much for them to bare. I am not talking about punishment, I am talking about the internal pain that often comes with being an addict....at some point. And may it be soon!!
Any thoughts are welcome.
I subscribe to the theory that an addict must feel the pain before they want recovery. The pain of using must outweigh the desire to feel good or numb themselves. It must outweigh their fear of stopping!!
Now, if an addict was truly only hurting themselves, many of us would continue to love them right into their grave or simply continue to enable them for the rest of their lives. Even with their atrocious behaviors, many of us struggle to stop enabling. We still want to show them how much we love them and somehow hope our love will help them see their own self worth....all while knowing it doesn't work that way.
Yet, the addict continues on with such destructive behaviors eventually forcing us to change our thinking and our own behaviors......sometimes kicking and screaming.
I suddenly have a new thought about their behaviors. Could it be that their behaviors our so ugly and unacceptable so that we will step away and allow them to feel their pain?? Is this God's plan? Is it our own need to rescue them that keeps the addiction fed, refusing to allow them to feel the pain?
I know we didn't cause it, can't control it or can't cure it but boy, I am strong believer that we can contribute to it.
I think I finally understand what has been said to me so many times but refused to believe it. "The most loving thing you can do is to let go." I let go thinking I was doing what was best for me but it sure helps knowing that it is the most loving thing I can do for him too. And I strongly believe it is.
I pray to GOD that my husband's pain and all of our loved ones pain becomes too much for them to bare. I am not talking about punishment, I am talking about the internal pain that often comes with being an addict....at some point. And may it be soon!!
Any thoughts are welcome.
Nature Girl
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: By The Lake
Posts: 60,328
I agree, LMN. What drugs do to their brains makes them incapable of joy after a time. It messes with the endorphins and the chemicals in the brain so that they don't work any more and may not for some time, even after getting clean. It is one of the body's ways of protecting them from overdose, but it leaves them miserable and maybe this is part of what is needed to them to get sick enough to want to get well.
You have an interesting point though, most addicts don't get clean until the pain of using is greater than the fear of stopping.
Stepping back, for us, is the best thing for us and probably the best thing for them too. For me, it was self-preservation, if I didn't let go I was going down with him. I'm not sure that he even noticed.
My prayers go out for your husband and all our addicted loved ones. It's a life nobody wants for those we care about.
Hugs
You have an interesting point though, most addicts don't get clean until the pain of using is greater than the fear of stopping.
Stepping back, for us, is the best thing for us and probably the best thing for them too. For me, it was self-preservation, if I didn't let go I was going down with him. I'm not sure that he even noticed.
My prayers go out for your husband and all our addicted loved ones. It's a life nobody wants for those we care about.
Hugs
Member
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Colorado
Posts: 577
We've all heard that term "don't deny an addict their pain"
But I think it will always be difficult for me to know my son is hurting...and to recognize that by helping him I could hurt him further. I try to keep in mind my son will need to feel some level of discomfort to initiate change. I try to focus now on my level of discomfort instead...and work my way through that. It was my discomfort that led me to make changes in my own life...so why is it so hard for me to embrace my son may need to feel the same. I think addiction changes everything....it's robbed me of many simple pleasures I truly enjoyed doing to remind my son he was loved....mailed shipments of homemade cookies...etc. it makes you question every move you might naturally make. Today is a tough day...not sure why...but I do know the sooner I accept it and acknowledge it the sooner I'll move through it. Thanks LMN..I appreciated this posting and have thought about it a good portion of the day.
But I think it will always be difficult for me to know my son is hurting...and to recognize that by helping him I could hurt him further. I try to keep in mind my son will need to feel some level of discomfort to initiate change. I try to focus now on my level of discomfort instead...and work my way through that. It was my discomfort that led me to make changes in my own life...so why is it so hard for me to embrace my son may need to feel the same. I think addiction changes everything....it's robbed me of many simple pleasures I truly enjoyed doing to remind my son he was loved....mailed shipments of homemade cookies...etc. it makes you question every move you might naturally make. Today is a tough day...not sure why...but I do know the sooner I accept it and acknowledge it the sooner I'll move through it. Thanks LMN..I appreciated this posting and have thought about it a good portion of the day.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 31,179
As a double winner, I've been on both sides of the addiction fence. I started on the codie side (had no clue, though) then to the other side, then back and now trying to find a happy middle.
When I was using, if I had a moment of clarity of what I was doing to my loved ones, I used - bad feelings went away. That was my way of dealing with stuff.
It wasn't until I finally chose recovery (after being clean then relapsing), had lurked on here for a long time and realized what I had put my loved ones through that I knew I had to tackle my codie self along with my A self.
I will tell you, it's when my dad stepped back (he was the only one I barely kept in touch with) and I was getting lots of consequences piling up that I could finally say "I'm done".
I am now a person who is fine (most of the time) with letting people deal with their consequences - whether it be addiction, money management, etc. - because that's what finally got through to me.
Hugs and prayers,
Amy
When I was using, if I had a moment of clarity of what I was doing to my loved ones, I used - bad feelings went away. That was my way of dealing with stuff.
It wasn't until I finally chose recovery (after being clean then relapsing), had lurked on here for a long time and realized what I had put my loved ones through that I knew I had to tackle my codie self along with my A self.
I will tell you, it's when my dad stepped back (he was the only one I barely kept in touch with) and I was getting lots of consequences piling up that I could finally say "I'm done".
I am now a person who is fine (most of the time) with letting people deal with their consequences - whether it be addiction, money management, etc. - because that's what finally got through to me.
Hugs and prayers,
Amy
Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 559
When I first found out my X was an addict I remember so many people telling me "you have to let go" This made me so angry. How in the hell could I let go? He was my husband, a father and my best friend. I loved him. I needed to help him. I couldn't give up on him. Finally, I realized that I wasn't giving up on him, I had no power. There was nothing I could do. Once I realized this, I could let go. But, boy was this journey long and painful.
I'm not sure about God's will and feeling their pain. Maybe. Who really knows. Each person is different. I do know that everytime he and I had a conversation, he got worse. I believe he got worse because he knew what I was saying was true, and he couldn't take the guilt. I am not a irrational person by any means! So, he knew. It was his coping method, and boy did he need to cope. I feel bad for him. It is sad.
I recently went out with a bunch of friends. Not close friends, but friends. They keeped asking about my situation. Which, afterwards, I realized I need to learn not to feel like I have to be so honest with people. I really didn't want to talk about it at a dinner table with a bunch of woman I barely knew. I wanted to have fun. What a downer discussion. First observation that I thought interesting is whenever I start talking about my XH addiction, 90% of people relate their own story of so and so being an addict in their life. In a weird way I always find that comforting, as it is meant by them I am sure. So, back to the dinner convo. This one woman decided to tell me that she was an alcoholic, and that 4 years ago her and her husband had a discussion. She asked him why he was still with her, and he said because he loved her. And the next day she straightened up and hadn't had a drink since. I immediately got the impression that she was basically telling me, I wasn't supportive of my husband. That I just let him go. So, I defended myself saying that wasn't the case...he cheated...I begged him back...and then went on to say there was disappointment after disappointed you get to the point where you can't take it anymore. I was pissed. Why should I have to defend myself? But I felt the need. I didn't want to talk about it, and need to learn to change the subject, but I felt judged and like I had to defend myself to a woman who was able to quit the very next day and stay clean. Not fair. Anyways, my point is, that there is only so much you can take. There is only so much you can love. In fact, I will always love him. In a different way than being married. But, he will never see that love until he becomes sober.
I'm not sure about God's will and feeling their pain. Maybe. Who really knows. Each person is different. I do know that everytime he and I had a conversation, he got worse. I believe he got worse because he knew what I was saying was true, and he couldn't take the guilt. I am not a irrational person by any means! So, he knew. It was his coping method, and boy did he need to cope. I feel bad for him. It is sad.
I recently went out with a bunch of friends. Not close friends, but friends. They keeped asking about my situation. Which, afterwards, I realized I need to learn not to feel like I have to be so honest with people. I really didn't want to talk about it at a dinner table with a bunch of woman I barely knew. I wanted to have fun. What a downer discussion. First observation that I thought interesting is whenever I start talking about my XH addiction, 90% of people relate their own story of so and so being an addict in their life. In a weird way I always find that comforting, as it is meant by them I am sure. So, back to the dinner convo. This one woman decided to tell me that she was an alcoholic, and that 4 years ago her and her husband had a discussion. She asked him why he was still with her, and he said because he loved her. And the next day she straightened up and hadn't had a drink since. I immediately got the impression that she was basically telling me, I wasn't supportive of my husband. That I just let him go. So, I defended myself saying that wasn't the case...he cheated...I begged him back...and then went on to say there was disappointment after disappointed you get to the point where you can't take it anymore. I was pissed. Why should I have to defend myself? But I felt the need. I didn't want to talk about it, and need to learn to change the subject, but I felt judged and like I had to defend myself to a woman who was able to quit the very next day and stay clean. Not fair. Anyways, my point is, that there is only so much you can take. There is only so much you can love. In fact, I will always love him. In a different way than being married. But, he will never see that love until he becomes sober.
Getting there!!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 5,750
Ahhh Story, I am sorry you felt the need to defend yourself. There was a time, I am sure I would have to. Who knows, I may still feel that way if presented with your situation. We know it has nothing to do with love. We know it's not personal. I think I am the point I would have either laughed her off or questioned how happy she was in her marriage (in my own head.) Sounds like she still has her own issues to deal with. Alcohol is just a symptom to a bigger problem. 
Member
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 111
I subscribe to the theory that an addict must feel the pain before they want recovery.
Not sure how to do the quotes and all, but
when do they feel pain. we can all say that we will not enable the addict, will not do anything to ease their path,; but, while being an addict, how do they feel pain?
and it is interesting that you are saying 'their pain' rather than ' their bottom' - i am so tired of hearing about 'the addict needs to hit their bottom'
I don't think they feel pain.
not as an addict.
not as we recognize pain.
I don't know what, I can't even think of the right word, what emotion compels an addict to seek change....
Not sure how to do the quotes and all, but
when do they feel pain. we can all say that we will not enable the addict, will not do anything to ease their path,; but, while being an addict, how do they feel pain?
and it is interesting that you are saying 'their pain' rather than ' their bottom' - i am so tired of hearing about 'the addict needs to hit their bottom'
I don't think they feel pain.
not as an addict.
not as we recognize pain.
I don't know what, I can't even think of the right word, what emotion compels an addict to seek change....
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,927
Originally Posted by story74 
I recently went out with a bunch of friends. Not close friends, but friends. This one woman decided to tell me that she was an alcoholic, and that 4 years ago her and her husband had a discussion. She asked him why he was still with her, and he said because he loved her. And the next day she straightened up and hadn't had a drink since. I immediately got the impression that she was basically telling me, I wasn't supportive of my husband. That I just let him go. So, I defended myself saying that wasn't the case...he cheated...I begged him back...and then went on to say there was disappointment after disappointed you get to the point where you can't take it anymore. I was pissed. Why should I have to defend myself? But I felt the need. I didn't want to talk about it, and need to learn to change the subject, but I felt judged and like I had to defend myself to a woman who was able to quit the very next day and stay clean. Not fair.
Anyways, my point is, that there is only so much you can take. There is only so much you can love. In fact, I will always love him. In a different way than being married. But, he will never see that love until he becomes sober.
Anyways, my point is, that there is only so much you can take. There is only so much you can love. In fact, I will always love him. In a different way than being married. But, he will never see that love until he becomes sober.
I wanted to respond because I can also relate to your friend (not exactly the same way but similar)... When my husband first got involved with drugs my initial response was to trust he would figure out how crazy it was and stop on his own, and since I didn't want to be around his new behaviors we separated for a while. But I never gave up on him, I researched and planned and when the time was right pushed an intervention, gave him options for rehabs and its how his recovery was kicked off two years ago.
What you just wrote is helpful to me because whenever I tell our story I inevitably feel like it "pisses" some people off just like you said you felt regarding your friend sharing their story. I always think people should be happy my husband found recovery & our son has his dad back, regardless of how it happened.
It took me a long time to figure out some people misinterpret my intent and believe Im trying to imply: "your not being supportive enough" ... I just share because its my story.. and to say its not wrong to do what I did.. sometimes it works.
On the reverse, Ive felt like Ive been put in the place to defend myself because Ive had people not so subtly tell me I was wrong to do it my way: codependent, too big an ego, it wouldn't stick because I did too much work to get him in rehab, I enabled him in various ways and he would soon relapse... Its possible your friend has had the same type of responses sent her way.
I think in truth, we all just have to do what works for us.. and as you said " there is only so much you can take". Absolutely true..
Of course I don't know your friends intent with her comments to you, but I just wanted to share my experience.
Getting there!!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 5,750
Originally Posted by bookreader
I subscribe to the theory that an addict must feel the pain before they want recovery.
Not sure how to do the quotes and all, but
when do they feel pain. we can all say that we will not enable the addict, will not do anything to ease their path,; but, while being an addict, how do they feel pain?
and it is interesting that you are saying 'their pain' rather than ' their bottom' - i am so tired of hearing about 'the addict needs to hit their bottom'
I don't think they feel pain.
not as an addict.
not as we recognize pain.
I don't know what, I can't even think of the right word, what emotion compels an addict to seek change....
Not sure how to do the quotes and all, but
when do they feel pain. we can all say that we will not enable the addict, will not do anything to ease their path,; but, while being an addict, how do they feel pain?
and it is interesting that you are saying 'their pain' rather than ' their bottom' - i am so tired of hearing about 'the addict needs to hit their bottom'
I don't think they feel pain.
not as an addict.
not as we recognize pain.
I don't know what, I can't even think of the right word, what emotion compels an addict to seek change....
I have received many late night heartbreaking texts from him. Some would say it's all manipulation to get me to feel sorry for him. I don't know if that is 100% true. I usually don't respond though because it won't change anything. He has to need to change for him....not me or our marriage. He just hasn't had enough pain yet. In some cases, they just never do and sadly there a some will take their own lives to escape the pain! It's a cunning and powerful disease. Why some seek recovery and some don't .... Is the great mystery. Today, I try not to question that anymore and just try to accept for.....it is what it is and trust God has a greater plan.
Nature Girl
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: By The Lake
Posts: 60,328
I have never seen pain like my son felt, seeing your adult son in a fetal position in the corner of his bedroom, sobbing so hard he could hardly breathe really breaks your heart. That pain would stop him for a while OR it would take him on a drug frenzy to try to numb it. But it was never "enough" to keep him clean forever.
All the interventions in the world would not stop him or help him end his pain. All the love a mother and father could give wasn't enough.
His pain became our pain too and it almost killed me, literally.
Sometimes an addict feels the pain and stops; sometimes, like my son, they go in an out of the revolving door or recovery/relapse for years and years; sometimes they end up in prison or mentally beaten on the streets; sometimes they die in their pain.
There is no good pain or bad pain, there is just pain. It is called addiction.
Hugs
All the interventions in the world would not stop him or help him end his pain. All the love a mother and father could give wasn't enough.
His pain became our pain too and it almost killed me, literally.
Sometimes an addict feels the pain and stops; sometimes, like my son, they go in an out of the revolving door or recovery/relapse for years and years; sometimes they end up in prison or mentally beaten on the streets; sometimes they die in their pain.
There is no good pain or bad pain, there is just pain. It is called addiction.
Hugs
Nature Girl
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: By The Lake
Posts: 60,328
Originally Posted by story74
I immediately got the impression that she was basically telling me, I wasn't supportive of my husband. That I just let him go. So, I defended myself saying that wasn't the case...he cheated...I begged him back...and then went on to say there was disappointment after disappointed you get to the point where you can't take it anymore. I was pissed.
You get to make the calls in your life based on your pain, your pain is valid and it doesn't mean you love your addict less or that you didn't give your life trying to make it better, like I did.
We feel our pain, we decide what is and what is not okay in our lives, and we go forward knowing that in the end, love has nothing to do with it. It's called recovery and choosing a healthy way to live.
Hugs
Getting there!!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 5,750
Originally Posted by bookreader
and it is interesting that you are saying 'their pain' rather than ' their bottom' - i am so tired of hearing about 'the addict needs to hit their bottom'
..
..
My Godchild was addicted for a year to pain pills. She started her senior year in college. Her mother and father were furious, a zero drug policy, did not enable, nor did her sisters, and she was told to get into a program now or get out!! They gave her 2 weeks!! She got into an IOP and got clean. I think it was "easier" for her because the length of time of her addiction was fairly short. She didn't need a long term, cushy rehab stay or anyone to hold her hand, she was ready and did it on her own. And she is very proud of that. I think it gave her - her confidence back. Today, she continues to stay vigilant, doesn't underestimate the power of addiction and continues to attend a confidential addicts group weekly. Due to her career, she is very concerned about her anonymity or she would attend AA or NA. Her choice, her recovery and she is doing great. Thank God!!
Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 864
How can it not get so ugly and nasty?
And are the addicts the only ones who get that way?
I think it progresses to that nasty and ugly as each gets sicker in their own right. How could it not?
And I have pondered the following.
Are they really hurting those around?
And if they are or were …
Then why the hell were they allowed too?
What is it about each side that makes it ok to allow others to cause them pain?
Does the pain one feels have to do with that illusion of control?
Is one getting something out of the pain, be it an excuse or a reason to act/react?
Is just pain ever enough? And how can it be when most go back for more.
Pain is a great trigger to keep one trapped no matter the side.
I hate to say what makes one get it, because there will never be a rhyme or reason. It seems so personal.
In terms of the consequences of ones actions, well that seems very important. How does one learn what it means for them when someone is always around to remove the pain and the lessons one needs to have the best chance.
And are the addicts the only ones who get that way?
I think it progresses to that nasty and ugly as each gets sicker in their own right. How could it not?
And I have pondered the following.
Are they really hurting those around?
And if they are or were …
Then why the hell were they allowed too?
What is it about each side that makes it ok to allow others to cause them pain?
Does the pain one feels have to do with that illusion of control?
Is one getting something out of the pain, be it an excuse or a reason to act/react?
Is just pain ever enough? And how can it be when most go back for more.
Pain is a great trigger to keep one trapped no matter the side.
I hate to say what makes one get it, because there will never be a rhyme or reason. It seems so personal.
In terms of the consequences of ones actions, well that seems very important. How does one learn what it means for them when someone is always around to remove the pain and the lessons one needs to have the best chance.
Getting there!!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 5,750
P.S. I am not implying that her parents did "it" the right way or that there is one. Her mom often says she is so thankful that is was discovered early enough and definitely feels they got very lucky she was ready too. Sadly, a couple of her friends she started with are still addicted, moved on to heroin and have been in and out of programs and a couple are clean and doing well too. There were 5 altogether. I have known 4 of them since they were very young, all good kids, good students, and in college....experimenting. I don't think anyone of them aspired to become an addict. Addiction, it just doesn't discriminate or have any rhyme or reason.
Getting there!!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 5,750
Originally Posted by incitingsilence
How can it not get so ugly and nasty?
And are the addicts the only ones who get that way?
I think it progresses to that nasty and ugly as each gets sicker in their own right. How could it not?
And I have pondered the following.
Are they really hurting those around?
And if they are or were …
Then why the hell were they allowed too?
What is it about each side that makes it ok to allow others to cause them pain?
Does the pain one feels have to do with that illusion of control?
Is one getting something out of the pain, be it an excuse or a reason to act/react?
Is just pain ever enough? And how can it be when most go back for more.
Pain is a great trigger to keep one trapped no matter the side.
I hate to say what makes one get it, because there will never be a rhyme or reason. It seems so personal.
In terms of the consequences of ones actions, well that seems very important. How does one learn what it means for them when someone is always around to remove the pain and the lessons one needs to have the best chance.
And are the addicts the only ones who get that way?
I think it progresses to that nasty and ugly as each gets sicker in their own right. How could it not?
And I have pondered the following.
Are they really hurting those around?
And if they are or were …
Then why the hell were they allowed too?
What is it about each side that makes it ok to allow others to cause them pain?
Does the pain one feels have to do with that illusion of control?
Is one getting something out of the pain, be it an excuse or a reason to act/react?
Is just pain ever enough? And how can it be when most go back for more.
Pain is a great trigger to keep one trapped no matter the side.
I hate to say what makes one get it, because there will never be a rhyme or reason. It seems so personal.
In terms of the consequences of ones actions, well that seems very important. How does one learn what it means for them when someone is always around to remove the pain and the lessons one needs to have the best chance.
It's a good thing I do not have your phone number though to work out these thoughts.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 864
Originally Posted by cynical one
It's the phone number on the bathroom wall where it says "If you want a good time" call...
LMFAO!
And LMN you're welcome I think
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