What Codependents Do

Old 03-18-2014, 09:33 AM
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Cynical One -- thanks for another great post!! I definitely see myself in this. Fortunately, it is more myself in the past -- not who I am now. Although, it helps to remind myself of how far I've come so that I don't slip back into those behaviors. The part, "And you will hear about it for three days," is soooo true--just ask my bf.
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Old 03-18-2014, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Praying View Post
The non codependent dinner table:

Day 1
You drink too much. Pass the peas.

Week 3
If you want to keep drinking that's fine for you. I'm not okay with it. I'm deciding what that means for me. Sorry I burned the steak. Don't forget dinner with the Smiths on Saturday.

Month 2
Yep, I'm done with your controlling deceitful behavior. I leased an apartment and am leaving. Here, have some pasta. I left a few meals in the fridge and my number on the wall in case you decide to change before I find someone new. Love you.



IMHO, you can't be in an addictive relationship for long before you develop some codependent behaviors, even if you didn't have them to begin with. And I'm the queen of denial on this one!
Praying.....this is priceless and spot on.
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Old 03-18-2014, 10:19 AM
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Cyncial One, Thanks so much. This post immediately made a difference to me. I printed it off and carried it in my pocket all evening. This morning it wound up right back here at work, so I highlilghted the parts that I need to work on and just stuck it in my cube wall next to a pic of my HP. Yeah that's how I roll - no pic of RAH but I have an image of my HP.

I've made some headway, but I still have my head up my a-- bc this is me to a T! "I am incapable of loving you because I feel superior to you, I would never say it out loud, but when I look at you and your problems I am assured of all the ways that I keep it together."

Well isn't that special?!

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Old 03-18-2014, 10:35 AM
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On any relationship site you go to there are comments about codependency. Being wrapped up in another person so tightly you forget about yourself, your needs, let go of your own values to be with that person, keep them in your life because you feel like they are your life even if its unhealthy and making you miserable. Or wanting to change someone so badly your become obsessed with one part of them and make it your mission to fix it (drug use or something else) and go to crazy making lengths trying to make it happen. It sounds like an addiction to me.

The way it was described to me in counseling; codependency is PERSISTENT EXTREME behaviors that are unhealthy/damaging to you and relationships.

NORMAL levels of care, concern, worry, help, interaction are not codependent behaviors.

Each of us have to identify our own NORMAL behaviors, GREY areas, and EXTREME behaviors.

There is a lot of talk about being too nice, too caring. But what about the other side of codependency and the behaviors that are damaging to the people involved with the codependent. Isnt it true that codependent behaviors can elicit extreme responses and create or worsen already unhealthy dynamics in a relationship? I would be interested in seeing examples of this, if anyone wants to share.

I think this interest me because in my counseling Im working on coping with my own emotions, not in a codependent sense but in general. I feel like if Im able to respond, handle interactions in a normal way then I can have a closer, probably more intense relationship than if I reacted with extreme emotions or behaviors.

This topic sort of fits in with that I guess
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Old 03-18-2014, 10:46 AM
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i must admit, i am seriously confused whether i am truly codependent or "just" reacting to circumstances/situations that are alien to me.
I dont feel "superior" towards my AH, i feel frustration, anger, disappointment.. but isnt that a normal response to being lied to by someone you love?
Do i find myself doing the things that are described in the books, ie codependent no more etc, yes, i do... WHY do i do it? honestly, i dont know. I KNOW i cant control AH, i dont WANT to control him.. but i also dont want to sit quietly and let him just get on with it to the point that the whole family suffers, so i have to step in (in our case that meant taking all MY money off him).
I think this whole codependency labelling can be dangerous as well... if you read enough about this stuff, you can fit yourself into that pigeon hole and that then can bring about a whole new load of hyperbole.
But that is just me messed up and confused at the moment, so im trying to roll with it. I actually do ask myself "do i really love him" and if im honest to myself. i come up with the same "i don't know" i come up with with everything. I know, if the answer isnt immediately yes, then it has to be no, but that isnt quite true either, because "something" is keeping me here .. maybe its hope after all even though im pretty sure i lost that as well.
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Old 03-18-2014, 10:59 AM
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I KNOW i cant control AH, i dont WANT to control him.. but i also dont want to sit quietly and let him just get on with it to the point that the whole family suffers, so i have to step in (in our case that meant taking all MY money off him).

Lost Hope this is where I am too. I don't feel superior to him I don't want to control him, I don't really fit the codependent as described in the OP. BUT I can't just sit by and watch him go down the rabbit hole again and ruin our family and our finances and our life. It's concern for myself and our kids that warrants concern for what he is doing. I don't think that's necessarily co-dependent, it's life with an addict when you don't have unlimited money for them to burn while you "disengage" from the addiction, or you have kids who are getting older now and can't be around to see it, etc.
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Old 03-18-2014, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by L0stH0pe View Post
I think this whole codependency labelling can be dangerous as well... if you read enough about this stuff, you can fit yourself into that pigeon hole and that then can bring about a whole new load of hyperbole.
The same thing could be said about labeling an addict. Same thing, different label.

Nobody is saying anyone is codependent. It's just information.

Again, to me it's about the behaviors. If anyone is perfectly content with how they behave and how they feel, then by all means don't get stuck on whether or not you may or may not be codependent.
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Old 03-18-2014, 11:08 AM
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[QUOTE=KariSue;4534332]I guess I am wondering how a person who is not a codependent handles the first signs that there is a problem. Do they normally just say "You do drugs. I want nothing to do with you until you stop" and leave them on their own? I guess some do but would that be typical?/QUOTE]

I think once it's discovered that someone else's lifestyle doesn't fit into our lifestyle then it's time to move on and wish them well. To expect THEM to change to fit into OUR life style is selfish. If they were like that before we came along then it's on US to leave not on them to change.
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Old 03-18-2014, 11:15 AM
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I think once it's discovered that someone else's lifestyle doesn't fit into our lifestyle then it's time to move on and wish them well. To expect THEM to change to fit into OUR life style is selfish. If they were like that before we came along then it's on US to leave not on them to change.

See this is way gray to me. I get what you're saying, but it's selfish to expect someone you love who has become an addict over the course of your relationship / marriage, to expect them to want to try to stop that behavior? Which basically says addiction is "OK" it's just a lifestyle? Going beyond that I realize that so much of the time an addict can't / won't change anyway but you know what I mean. Say for example if AH does start actively using again, it's bad behavior on MY part to want him to realize that his addiction is hurting himself, me, the kids, and our whole world?
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Old 03-18-2014, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by KF85 View Post
[B]I get what you're saying, but it's selfish to expect someone you love who has become an addict over the course of your relationship / marriage, to expect them to want to try to stop that behavior?
What if he asked you to start using drugs/drinking because he loves you and the only way to be with him is if you do?
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Old 03-18-2014, 11:36 AM
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BUT it's not healthy or financially sound or good from any real world perspective to be an addict. Yes it may be a double standard, at least to the addict, but addiction hurts families in lots of ways.

Honestly if AH would relapse again, I would leave. I can't go through it again. Emotionally, physically, mentally, financially. It has hurt him as well as myself. Does being a non addict hurt people in those same ways? Moreover leaving would have less to do with the fact that he uses drugs and more to do with the fact that our kids are getting too old to not notice things, financially he hurts our family badly when he has relapsed and that's not fair to the kids either, he lies up a storm and I can't deal with the lies, etc.

I suppose the point in asking if they asked you to start doing drugs or they would leave you is to validate codependence as "just as bad" as drug use. I get it. But in real life situations where so much is at stake, I don't think it's "bad" for someone to have to get to the point where it's "quit the drugs or I'm leaving."
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Old 03-18-2014, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by KF85 View Post
Does being a non addict hurt people in those same ways?
IMO, Yes.

Now I'm not talking about your situation because you stated that you will not go through another relapse.

But, when the non-using partner stays in an addictive situation. Then yes, I do think, and have seen many times that they do indeed hurt others emotionally, financially, mentally, and physically...because they allow it, many times repeatedly, especially to the children.
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Old 03-18-2014, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by cynical one View Post
What if he asked you to start using drugs/drinking because he loves you and the only way to be with him is if you do?
im sorry but that just doesnt make any sense at all... on any level... what us "codependents" start out doing is making things right, for the WHOLE family, not just for ONE member of a family. Slowly, the focus invariably gets turned more and more onto that ONE member, due to financial strains, behaviours, not pulling their weight etc etc.
An addict asking me to jeopardize my HEALTH to me is just be a nonsensical counter arguement, we are wanting them to take responsibility... if he wants to use, fine use but DONT do it at my or the kids' expense, don't pretend to me that you are someone you are not, be HONEST with me and then ive got something to work with.

the crux of all this is where the desire to "change" the other person comes from i think, i want the guy i married back. That guy was NOT high and drunk all the time, that guy was my partner, my other half. So, am i asking him to change? yes of course, but im only asking him to go back to something HE was in the first place, so asking to undo change.

i dont know .. i guess i just stepped onto the crazy train after all... im not meaning to be difficult or dismiss anyone's views, im just trying to sift through MY thoughts, and come back maybe tomorrow or the day after and see how my thinking may or may not have changed.
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Old 03-18-2014, 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by L0stH0pe View Post
... i want the guy i married back.
And, to that I would ask, do you really? If you want that guy back, he's going to be the same guy that started using drugs for whatever reason.

And, I too am not trying to be difficult, I'm just trying to ask questions that may make others uncomfortable enough to look at themselves. Cause that's where all the answers are...within.
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Old 03-18-2014, 12:17 PM
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What I was referring to was when you begin dating someone and discovers their lifestyle consists of using drugs and heavy drinking. If that doesn’t sit well with you then it’s time to move on not marry them and hope they will change.

But once married and the addiction can no longer be hidden and is discovered then a mutual agreement needs to be reached so BOTH people involved can live their lives as they see fit. If one clearly shows they have no interest in becoming sober/clean then the other person has choices to make and the unhealthiest choice of all is to attempt to make that other person change. All it does it build a toxic relationship filled with resentments and anger and bitterness from parties involved.
And yes to some –addiction is a life style choice.
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Old 03-18-2014, 12:43 PM
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In no way can I compare asking my husband to get treatment for his addiction, to him saying something to me like I will only stay with you if you change yourself, grow your hair a certain length and start wearing short skirts.

Addiction is a complex medical problem where the addicts brain is affected, and they stop being able to make rational decisions about their health, or how the addiction is hurting them, or their family.

People can get help for addiction and the underlying causes. I look at my husbands addiction like any other medical problem. There are LOTS of other medical problems out there that cause damage to families both emotionally and financially, I don’t treat it different, or respond any different than I would to anything else.

If my husband kept getting dizzy and was a danger to himself by driving, or if he had depression and it caused him to miss work and lose his job I wouldnt sit by and accept it without question. Id say your obviously sick, even if you dont realize it. I would try to make him see that and get available help. I dont think any doctor would say I was wrong and was only being codependent.

I can imagine some situations where I would have to give up the effort, but its something only (( I )) could decide based on where my behaviors slip into a grey area, heading towards EXTREME unhealthy levels for me, and our relationship. Then I would have to decide what I could live with, or not.
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Old 03-18-2014, 12:56 PM
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An addict asking me to jeopardize my HEALTH to me is just be a nonsensical counter arguement, we are wanting them to take responsibility... if he wants to use, fine use but DONT do it at my or the kids' expense, don't pretend to me that you are someone you are not, be HONEST with me and then ive got something to work with.

I totally get this lost hope and agree with the sentiment.

I guess I myself also can't totally accept addiction as a disease. It's a disease you choose, time and time again. I know saying that is highly unpopular but it's often true. SO much gray area though.
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Old 03-18-2014, 12:59 PM
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So the question is......how would you inform someone (your child perhaps) about the dangers of addiction? You would talk about it, right? It wouldn't mean that said the child IS an addict, right? Heck....they may only be twelve years old and don't even grasp the concept of addiction. You are merely informing them so that they are aware.

How do you inform someone about the dangers of codependence?

You talk about it.

Personally, I am very grateful for the recovering addicts on this site who are willing to speak openly and honestly about their addiction. I am also very grateful for the recovering codependents on this site who are willing to speak openly and honestly about their codependence.

Thanks everyone!

gentle hugs
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Old 03-18-2014, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by cynical one View Post
...or may be developing in currant relationships.
*current not currant. I meant recent relationships not relationships with a berry.

Note to self: Use spellcheck dummy!
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Old 03-18-2014, 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Kindeyes View Post
How do you inform someone about the dangers of codependence?

You talk about it.
My daughter initially responded as well as I did, about having codie behaviors. And that was immediate denial lol. But the more we talked about it, the more open she became. Especially when a 'double winner' told her she relapsed after 15 years sobriety because of untreated codependency.

I shared with my daughter the in-a-nutshell definition I learned: it's when you take ______ personally. When you make ______ about you. When you cease to be "me" in your relationships and become "we."

I said it's either codependency or narcissism. Being a recovering addict, she prefers codependency over narcissism. She's all too familiar with the latter.

Before I forget, something I've been thinking about since the start of this thread, is what all addicts and codies/enablers have in common: an unwillingness to say no.

That's probably why my daughter's rehab also told us loved ones that "if you can't say no, you have no business dating, getting married, having children."
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