Taking5

I am glad you are moving on, but do you consider heroin so bad and pills and alcohol less so? In fact of the 3 of those, alcohol is the deadliest. Opiate/Opiod withdrawal will only make you feel like you're gonna die, whereas alcohol withdrawal can actually kill you.

incitingsilence

He will need to get into a routine.
He will need to find out what lights him up each day other than the thrill of the cop and the high that comes after.
He will have to plan for the days as they come and will be the only one able to keep himself in a good place. He will be the only one that can take himself down as well.

Not sure why you think he can think rationally. He is an addict after all. And he didn’t choose to use drugs over you or your child. This isn’t personal, stop taking it that way. He did not just try heroin. His addiction is progressing and it can and does go to there. Surely he didn’t think when he first started using … Hey I am gonna strive to be a heroin addict. And I say this for one reason … his addiction is his, not yours… start looking at your end of this. And yes there is a your end, you were there all those years were you not? And if you held it together, if you covered it up, if you made excuses for it, if you choose to deny the truth before you eyes, well that is on you. Many of us who watched had to make our own set of amends.

I tend to understand the fear you have of heroin as I did too. But it just another drug abused. Addiction is addiction, high is high. There can’t be this division because if you are an addict, then you are an addict. Keep it simple.

And as LMN wrote, trying is a baited word. Doing is a much better one.

You don’t have to take him back.
You don’t have to go to dinner.
You certainly shouldn’t be listening to anything his mother says … and frankly can’t he speak for himself.

She is allowed to have her hope. She is allowed to make the choices she wishes to, and you don’t have to like them and they really are none of your business. Just as any decision you need to make for you isn’t her business, nor has to take her feelings into account.

I have yet to meet an opiate addict who got it the first time around.

Watch the we, and us…
Watch the must, need to, have to in terms of anyone.

I, is an important word for you. This needs to be about what you need, so find that.

If you are getting some help for yourself, it might be time.

SadWife7

I never understood how bad the pill addiction, and addiction, was. I came from a very sheltered background, and all I had done before meeting him was smoke some weed & try cigs which I never developed any liking for. I don't have an addictive bone in my body. He would be the closest thing I have to an addiction, and I've walked away from him in our early relationship and I was fine with it. I told him he had to get a job for us to have a relationship, and he got one, and I let him back in. That was a mistake on my part, because I did not need him. But if I had not made that mistake, I would not have my son, and I won't wish him away for anything.
He was very good at explaining to me that the pills were okay, they were just recreational, etc. Now, I did not like them, I did not support them, I did not understand them, and I was very against any new drugs coming into the picture. So I know I made a mistake there, of underestimating what I was getting myself into by being with him.
I'm frustrated by my MIL telling me what we have to do with our lives to get through this. I will not put the kids through taking him back & watching him relapse. I know that the chances of him coming through her rehab program she's created and never touching anything again is pretty much zero. I'm also frustrated by her talking to me like a moron that doesn't know how everything in our lives would have to change if he comes back into our house.
I know he can't think rationally. But if he goes through detox & the suboxine program & the therapy & etc etc, and still can't think rationally, is unable to learn the life skills to ever be able to...I care about him but I've got 2 kids. I don't want the 3rd one to be a grown man who I have to decisions for & hold his hand & force him to do the things he has to do to stay clean. He will have to do that for himself. If we get to a point where he can be back in our lives, I will be on board with everything he needs to do to stay sober. But if he can't make the decisions for himself to stay busy so he stays sober, I don't want to have to make him. It won't work. And she doesn't understand that yet. I've realized hes been addicted to something for 7-8 years, and I don't want that in my life anymore. She wants me to expect he will come out of this a new man, so we can start a new relationship without drugs in the picture at all, but I have to see him keep drugs out of the picture on his own first.
I want to send her a copy of EnglishGarden's sticky, but I don't want to take away her hope. Its her son, she wants to save him. She is talking to a psychologist every step of the way so that she does not enable him, and I appreciate her doing that.
I will do what I have to do for the kids, no matter what she says. But I hate that she is going to tell him he has to keep working hard to save his family, when he lost his family. He has to work hard for himself, so he can be healthy & earn his family back. I don't want him to have the false hope that he is going to detox and start this program & when his outpatient treatment is done he'll be able to come home, cause that is not happening. The guilt is just hard to deal with. I won't let it change my mind, but it does make it harder. I'm going to make a point to read that sticky every single day & night because this whole process is so hard, it's a good dose of reality that I need to keep seeing so that the "oh he is doing so much better than I every thought he would" and "You will not recognize him when you see him, he is a different person now" won't stay in my head. It has been 6 days since I found out he was doing heroin-and that his addiction had reached such a bad point, since you are right, a drug is a drug-and it has been 5 days since his mother has known and has been helping him, and it has been 4 days since he has been under her roof, and it has been less than 24 hours that he has been on the suboxine...I know she has to think day to day. But I have to think ahead. For the children. And for myself.
I know I'm going to need therapy of some kind. Right now, since I'm kind of overwhelmed with trying to get my life in order, and also poor, I have been reaching out to friends I have not talked to in years, and rebuilding that healthy social environment that I need to have around me. There is no nar-alon, if that is right, anywhere near me, I looked into that weeks ago. For right now, I am just going to keep moving forward in my new life, and roll with the emotions as they come, and call family and friends when I am sitting on the couch sobbing instead of continuing to sit there and sob feeling alone.
I am really resentful that sex is out of the picture. It has been for months anyway, but before it was in my head that he was going to get better & we'd have a sex life again.

hopeful4

Do not listen to a word that comes out of his mouth. Look at his actions over the long term. Actions speak the words.

Take care of you and your kids. Get face to face support from people who understand what YOU are going through. That support is not going to come from his family.

Good Luck and God Bless!

LoveMeNow

Just a FYI, If he is on suboxone, he will not go through withdrawals from heroin.

SadWife7

He went through withdrawals from Sunday eveningish till Thursday afternoon, he had a doc appt and they started the suboxone so the withdrawals have stopped. He started the therapy part of the treatment today.

BlueChair

Hey SadWife,

My Inlaws ran the show at first too. I was frustrated and hurt by a lot of the things they said to me, but part of it was because I was confused and emotional. Its alright she is forcing him to do this in the beginning and if she is using a psychologist then she's probably doing it the right way. He will latch onto the treatment and therapy, or he wont. That part is an inside job, but getting him in there where he has access to the help he needs is the only important thing right now. I dont think that sticky will take away her hope even if she reads it. I read it and it doesnt do squat for discouraging me. I found a lot more hope, knowledge, and understanding of addiction by talking with my husbands own doctors, and the counselor I work with. Be honest with all of them about your feelings, where the relationship stands is my suggestion. My inlaws caused me a lot of stress and tears. I still cant believe some of the things his mom said to me, highly personal stuff. arrrggghhhh she had no right to go there. I have to block some of that out now. I dont want to even think about her thinking some of those thought less her saying them out loud to me.

cynical one

As long as you continue to put the children's safety and wellbeing first you cant go wrong, and that alone should erase any feelings of guilt. Losing a parent once is traumatic for children, losing them over and over again is what leaves the scars.

Canary6

I had a dream, that some day I would get a call from a rehab facility saying that my sister requested my support towards her commitment to do what ever it would it take to embrace her recovery from her adiction to herion I have always been ready to drop everything I was doing to meet, what I imagined, her request for me to be present. It's been 38 years or so, I never got the call.

SadWife7

I saw him last night, and we talked for hours, and now I don't know what to do.
He said part of his treatment will be rebuilding relationships. If I remove him from my life while he goes through treatment, he can't do that.
It is so much harder than I thought it would be to look at the person I fell in love with 4 years ago & believe that I have to leave him, that he isn't going to save himself, that his past does equal his future.
He wants to know how he can start to show me I can trust him. After going around and around, I finally realized & managed to explain that it has been one week. I CAN NOT trust him & don't want to right now. I want to see him go through his treatment & remain sober for a period of time before I can even think about wanting to trust him again. Yes I still love him, but trust...How do you ever regain that?
He did tell me I'm the hardest person he has ever known to earn trust to. (did that sentence make sense) I can be proud of that, I feel like-No, screw me over, I won't trust you & it'll take a lifetime to fix it, and he knows that, and is still willing to try.
I did make it clear to him that if we can come through this...There is no way in hell I can do it again.
Right now I feel like if I can't get him to sign the divorce papers, I do at least want him to sign something that says that if he starts lying to me again, he will willingly sign the divorce papers. That way I at least have something to show him, that says -look, I tried to trust you again, you failed AGAIN, free me from you"
I won't hold a relapse against him-I know it is very likely to happen. But I won't forgive lying again.
I feel like to a point, our relationship is doomed & he could be driven away at some point? His process will be to move forward, do right, don't dwell on the past because you can't change it, etc....I can not and am not willing to forget the past. If we get in a fight, I don't know how I can keep from pulling something from this time if it seems relevant. And that won't help him any.
One thing he said, that made me feel better, is that not being able to sleep & not coming to bed was not because of the drug use, it was because of the guilt he was carrying-He couldn't lay next to his wife & son and sleep knowing what he was doing to us. Now, I know part of it was most likely the drug use that kept him from sleeping. But that mean part of me is GLAD he was eaten alive by guilt. That same part of me is HAPPY that he went through the withdrawals worse than he ever thought possible before getting in the suboxone treatment. I WANT him to suffer so that HE NEVER DOES THIS SH*T AGAIN. ( I know that I will need therapy to try to make our relationship work. And we will need family therapy as well.)

Hawkeye13

What would you do about living arrangements SadWife?
It may be that living apart may still be in your best interest and that of your children,
but of course only you can decide that.

Living with someone in early recovery can be a stressful as living with an addict, especially if there is a significant trust problem.

It seems like he really needs to demonstrate a significant period of active recovery work instead of just "getting his family back" but perhaps I'm not understanding what you are saying this conversation actually means in terms of what you are going to do next.

There seems to be a great deal of pressure from his family and him to get you to take him back. What do you want, and how do you create space for yourself to get some time to think about it?

Hugs in this difficult time.

Praying

Then he can't do that. Regardless of your involvement.

You know this, I can tell from your posts...he doesn't need anyone else to do this, he needs to rely on himself. This is not your burden. It's likely another excuse or need to keep you in and avoid the issue at hand. If he truly does the work to recover, and if you can learn to trust him over time, THEN maybe. But he's jumping to F before doing ABCD and E. (And please know that I'm not saying he can't do this--I'm saying IF he can't without X from you, THEN he can't, until he's ready to change his own mindset.)

People have said it can take years to build trust, but ONE moment to shatter it all. I think your lack of trust makes complete sense. You don't have to trust anyone until they've earned it. And unfortunately, IF WE ARE HEALTHY, it takes a lot longer to re-earn trust once broken.

I say "if we are healthy", because in my own life when I'd like to say I was giving by extending trust and forgiving, often times it was just my own sickness at work in the relationship.

You are strong and sound completely grounded to me. Hang in there.

Hugs.

Ann

I have to say that I cringe when an active addict blames anyone except themselves or when they manipulate those they have hurt making THEM responsible for the addict's recovery. Horse hooey.

If he is sincere about his recovery, he will just do it.

Putting some space between you right now might be just what you need to avoid his attempts to manipulate you.

hugs

LoveMeNow

Reading your post is like deja vu for me. I probably have posted it too. I hope you are getting help for you from someone who really understands addiction because your husband is very sick right now and he will do anything to protect his addiction.

I was warned, I didn't listen. I was no longer a victim, I had become a willing volunteer. I had only me to blame.

In the beginning, I loved hearing all that my husband was telling me. I was getting the "love" and attention, I missed and believed I deserved. The man who had neglected my emotional needs was now "fighting" for me and us, and it felt so good.......or was he??

I pray your situation has a very different ending. Be on guard. My husbands "recovery" time was probably the worst of it. It had me really seconding guessing my instincts and my own sanity.

AnvilheadII

He said part of his treatment will be rebuilding relationships. If I remove him from my life while he goes through treatment, he can't do that.

oh bs. talk about a hook. yours is not the only relationship he has that would need to be rebuilt. he's run thru a lot of lives, leaving a wake of destruction. as it is he has a pending court date and possible incarceration, I am correct. he can work on becoming a responsible productive member of society, pay his debts, and strive to lead an honest sober man's life.

just taking subs won't help. that has been clearly demonstrated thru his actions. he'll need to go at this thing as if his life depends on it. no half assin. at some point the goal would be to come off the subs, and many addict will tell subs are harder to get off than the dope was.

while the "i'm too guilty to sleep next to you" line sounds sweet, the truth of the matter is more that he was TOO HIGH to sleep. he's already schmoozing you, be careful.

BlueChair

I think you sound really grounded in your thinking. One week isnt very long and trust takes time to rebuild. There's no time frame of doing it either. We are still working on it, and its been months now. But progress is being made, and I feel it. I think you will experience something like that too, you will feel it, or you wont as time goes by, and it will maybe give you a better idea of what the future holds for your marriage.

I think there is TRUTH in what he's saying about part of his outpatient is about restoring relationships. Part of my husbands rehab process included this. BUT that doesn't mean he has to move home to do it. Being able to live at home means you've reached a point where your BOTH comfortable with this. Until then he has to work with whatever you feel comfortable offering.

Concept of patience is sometimes hard for people in recovery. My husband is still impatient because his employer is taking it slow restating his powers at work. But it doesnt happen all on his time frame. It hurts him, causes a lot of anxiety, but its also a good growing experience. On a good day he can see this for himself. On a bad day, not so much.

((sadwife7))

LoveMeNow

Your husband is in the fight of his life right now, if he is serious. He has avoided feeling for years. He has to learn how to deal with life, the good and the bad, sober now. How or why would anyone push him to repairing or rebuilding relationships right now? That will come with time, but his first priority must be learning to cope.....with himself and life. Sounds easy, but for an addict.....it just isn't.

Keep taking care of you and let him take care of himself. He has a family full of enablers, he doesn't need another.

I know you are getting conflicting information here so you will have to decide what works best for you. Hey, I had to learn the hard way and but I finally got it. If love could save our addicts, none of us would be here!!

LoveMeNow

Ps. Read Youngandclean's posts. He is a young, handsome, intelligent guy who struggles with his own addictions, heroin being one. He has had many setbacks, had to lose more, but has several months clean now. He really seems to want sobriety too but has really struggled to maintain it. If it were easy, many would not need rehabs, programs, SR...etc.

Also, the lying was the most difficult part for me but it's simply part of the disease. I am not making excuses for it. Here is a good article to gather some further insight.

Addiction, Lies and Relationships

SadWife7

I know he is being overconfident. He feels better now that the withdrawals are done & he is on the subs. I've talked to his brother that agrees completely. We like seeing the clean version of him, but it just has not been long enough. He will let him live with him, which I feel very comfortable with, it is a clean environment with someone who cares, but he is also not going to force him to do anything, he knows hubby has to do this for himself.
He's out in the garage now, getting his car ready to move so that he can get to treatment & meetings. And...maybe relapse & learn some humility that it isn't as easy as he thinks it will be? I don't know. Time will tell.
He did clean all of the paraphernalia out of our garage while I watched. It was painful for me.

LoveMeNow

He knows he can stop the subs at any time, get high and go right back on it. And No one will be the wiser.

Addicts are very cunning, it will amaze you how deceptive he will become if he is not serious.