Solutions

Old 02-25-2014, 01:51 PM
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Solutions

I’ve never talked about my daughter’s alcoholism. I won’t go into all the details, but she is definitely an alcoholic. One day she decided she wanted to be a better mother and quit cold turkey and hasn’t touched a drop in 20 years. She has never attended a program or therapy. She just quit. I’ve read on the forums many times that statistics say that most people quit on their own without any help. I could post on all the threads that your loved one can just quit if they want to and they don’t need any help. That is my experience with my daughter and statistics back that up.

But wait...

I was in a friendship with a man who was an alcoholic until he died and he never chose to stop drinking or get any kind of help. I left the relationship because of it, but we were close friends for 20 years. I cherish that friendship. He was always kind and caring and always there for me until he died. I
miss him. I could post on all the threads to stay friends with the addicted person you love even if they don’t stop their addiction. They are still beautiful and the relationship can still be positive.

But wait….

I married my second husband without knowing he was a drug addict. He treated me poorly and was abusive at times. I helped him get therapy and it didn’t work for him. I left the relationship shortly after we were married. It escalated to physical abuse. After 20 or so years he is still an addict and still mentally ill. I could post on all the threads to get out as fast as you can if your loved one is an addict and break all contact. That is the best action to take. Therapy won’t help at all. Get on with your life.

But wait…

My brother is an alcoholic. He moderated successfully for over 10 years. He only binged once a year at a camping trip with his friends. I could post on all the threads to just have your loved one moderate. It worked for my brother and it can work for your loved one. You can handle one weekend a year of binge drinking away from your home.

And then…

There is my son. I adapted to his addictions to point of reaching despair. He is the reason I found SR.
It was my first opportunity to learn all about addiction and how complicated it all is. I have tried everything under the sun to help him. Rehabs, therapy, encouragement, tough love so he faces his own consequences…I have sat in hospitals numerous times when he detoxed with DTs. I have attended family meetings and visited rehabs on a weekly basis. I have had him committed to institutions and put in jail. I am committed to him, but I had to learn to live without adapting to his addictions to the point that I was living in despair.

The people I love each had a different situation. I didn’t even mention my father’s alcoholism. Each new person who joins this forum has a unique situation. We are here to support them and share our knowledge and experience about the way we get through this and learn to have better lives.

There is no one right answer and our way does not fit every circumstance. We only know what our own experience has taught us and that might not be right for everyone in every situation. When we share our knowledge and experience the new member can make their own decision about the journey they want to take and they can change their mind later and try something else.

We’ve had a problem with bickering on newcomer’s threads and threads’ being hijacked with debates about what is the right advice for the original poster. I’ve seen harsh advice when the person arriving here might not know a thing about addiction. I would not want to join this forum and immediately be told my loved one is a scum bag and to just dump him or be told I’m terrible for not trying harder. I would also not want to be told that I just need to get him therapy without anyone taking the time to find out about all the years I’ve tried everything and the level of despair I’ve been in.

Share your experience and respectfully allow others to share their experience and give the new member the respect and time to learn and make their own decisions and their own mistakes. I can probably guarantee that your experience will reach them if their life circumstances fit with yours.

Everyone has something to offer to someone. I’ve seen some loved ones recover, I’ve seen some loved ones lose their life, I’ve seen some in an endless circle of addiction for years. Some of us need advice on how to help our loved ones. Some of us need advice on how to break contact. Some of us need advice on how to live in peace even though we stay in contact. No one needs any judgment about the decisions they make and what they choose to live with. We do not have to pay the consequences for their decisions. They do.

We are not here to push our agenda onto someone else or debate who is right and who is wrong. We are here to offer support and allow members the time to learn, make progress, try things, make mistakes, and celebrate success when possible. I don’t want to see another new member’s thread closed due to these problems. It may have taken them all their courage to post that first thread. You all have a lot to offer. Please start sharing appropriately. If someone hits a nerve or triggers an emotional response put them on ignore or discover the reason you are triggered.

Please try harder so we don’t have these daily problems that cause so much division between moderators and members. We all have a unique and important way of getting through this. We need to be a part of the solution, not a part of the problem. I try to practice that here when I'm trying to be fair to all.
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Old 02-25-2014, 03:10 PM
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Thank you.......you have very eloquently put everyone on notice that we need to "play nice".

I tried to explain this in a couple of posts in the last few days.....everyone has their own unique experiences and their responses are (and always will be) biased by their own experiences. Some have very limited exposure to addiction, some many years of exposure, others many years and multiple addicts (as you described in your post).

I know what has worked for me to help ME live with my son's addiction. I did what I had to do for me to survive a marriage (and divorce) from my XAH. That is my experience. There is nothing more heartbreaking than to be told (via insinuation or blatant statements) that I didn't try hard enough or my son isn't "smart" enough.....when the fact is.....I lost myself in his addiction and my son (and many of the addicts I know) is (are) extremely intelligent. Addiction is a nondiscriminatory disease.

Thank you again for reminding everyone that each of us are at a different point in our experiences. Each of us has value to bring to the table. And casting disparaging comments, particularly at those who understand that they have enabled or are codependent, is unbelievably damaging. There is no shame in acknowledging what we have done and doing something to correct it.

Everyone has something to offer to someone. I’ve seen some loved ones recover, I’ve seen some loved ones lose their life, I’ve seen some in an endless circle of addiction for years. Some of us need advice on how to help our loved ones. Some of us need advice on how to break contact. Some of us need advice on how to live in peace even though we stay in contact. No one needs any judgment about the decisions they make and what they choose to live with. We do not have to pay the consequences for their decisions. They do.
I don't have skin in anyone else's game so the outcome of their situation isn't mine to own. The one thing I would encourage anyone new to this forum to do is to keep an open mind. I am once again reminded of a wonderful quote:

"'There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance—that principle is contempt prior to investigation.'" - Herbert Spencer-

-and-

"A new idea cannot be grafted on a closed mind."

Thank you again for bringing this matter up......it needed to be said and you did it in a kind and eloquent way.

gentle hugs
ke
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Old 02-25-2014, 03:49 PM
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Great post, Morning Glory!

It is really difficult to decide when to hang on and when to let go, when helping or intervention turn into enabling. Each of us is different in our ability to cope with chaos and its effects on other family members. And that capacity changes with time and circumstances and with physical and financial health.
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Old 02-25-2014, 04:06 PM
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Thank you MG for this post. I don't consider myself a newcomer to this site anymore but had 6 full years of trying to help my son before deciding to find support for myself and reaching out here. LOTS of experience. I have often been discouraged by the insinuations that maybe I hadn't tried hard enough or given him enough support. The fact is, and I remind myself of this often, no one knows how much our entire family tried to help, financially, emotionally, you name it. Someone recently said on here "you ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know". My son doesn't want to be clean. He says he does but as soon as I offer rehab or private therapy he shuts down. You can't help someone who doesn't want help. You can remind them of standing offers of help and assure them they are loved....and then you wait...for the seed to grow. My son had been forced into rehab in the past...it lasted 5 minutes. Does it work for some....sure. am I envious...absolutely. but...not a single one of us knows what the future holds...we are all doing the best we can under some mighty crappy circumstances. I'm so thankful for this site. I appreciate the sound, supportive advice I've received and that is offered to others. I heard a quote earlier. Don't let one cloud obliterate the entire sky. I choose to take what I like and leave (or ignore) the rest.
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Old 02-25-2014, 05:13 PM
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Thank you Morning Glory. This should be a safe space we can all come for support.
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Old 02-25-2014, 06:34 PM
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Thank you for this post. I am a newcomer to this site (reading for about 3 months, posting for a couple weeks), and I too have been feeling pretty discouraged lately about my decision to put space between myself and my addict partner after reading posts here insinuating that I have not tried hard enough or given him enough support. Some have even quoted government studies to prove their point that people in my position need to be more supportive.

I don't want to start another debate, but I do want to thank the people who have put together this forum and who keep an eye on the posts. The debate is generally helpful when it doesn't get too dogmatic, and I have gained a lot of wisdom from reading and sharing in it, not just about others, but about myself.

If there is one thing I have learned here, it is that there are many different people here who are in many different places -- some in the thick of dealing with addiction, some with a lot of recovery. Some whose family members have been successful in recovery, some who haven't. And by reading viewpoints by people in so many different places, I find myself moving forward. Which is a very good thing.
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Old 02-25-2014, 07:33 PM
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Thank you MG for such personal and clear sharing. You have always been my biggest inspiration here and you have a wonderful ability to see all sides of addiction, recovery, and just people in general.

There is a saying in the rooms that says "Together we can do what we cannot do alone." When we walk together in recovery we hold each other up and make the journey a little easier each day.

I am blessed to be walking with so many great people here.

Hugs
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Old 02-25-2014, 07:56 PM
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I also thank you Morning Glory

What you have said is very true.. every addict is unique, all family members and their situations are also unique. Each person alone must find their own answers. We should all be free to share our own experiences, what has worked for us without fear of being insulted, debated, or having other members try to disparage our comments, or question our depth of experience. Its not much fun to have to pull supporting evidence in order to prove your program and methods have validity in the real world. All of us here have much to offer, but in truth no one here has more to offer than the next person…

I share my own story, and it involves encouraging treatment, and supporting my husband in early recovery along with lots of work on myself. My own program of recovery supports this approach, and its worked for me, and my family. I do think the concept of “helping” triggers feelings inside each of us, but to me all that really means is we have to look within and solidify our own beliefs on the issue. I also think its no worse than saying to someone “there is nothing you can do to help” because this also triggers feelings inside, and requires introspection.

In my mind, when we speak of our own experiences, this does not negate what someone else shares… it is not a direct slam at someone else and what they did or didn’t do…. All of our situations are different and what concepts work for one may not work for another, or it might work later in that person’s journey.

Take what you want, and leave the rest pretty much sums it up.
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Old 02-25-2014, 10:09 PM
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Thank you Morning Glory for your post.

Thank you for sharing your experience and wisdom with us, and for doing so in a way that reaches out to everybody. I, too, had started to notice a change in this forum and I think your post is definitely a step in the right direction.

Hugs to you and all the wonderful people on this forum who take the time to share, help and support each other.
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Old 02-25-2014, 10:19 PM
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"Discuss coping tools, and learn basic recovery techniques for you, not the addict."

I think that's always been the answer to bickering around here. Bickering only seems to happen when we start talking about how to fix them, not us.

I choose to fix me every day with a lot of prayer, sweeping my side of the street, maintaining self awareness, and a check up with my therapist every 6 weeks or so. I don't think I've ever felt stronger and consciously happy.
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Old 02-26-2014, 04:26 AM
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Thank you soooo much Morning Glory.

I am a newcomer here, just posting for a few weeks. I came because of my son's addiction. I've stayed for my own healing. If I didn't have many years solid recovery from alcoholism and the understanding that I can 'take what I need and leave the rest', well I would not have stayed because some of the animosity and antagonism was really disturbing to me. I was tempted to jump in a few times and join the fray but instead found the ignore option for posters who trigger my temper!

So many people are in pain when they finally reach out for help. The SR moderators and admin. are amazingly welcoming and knowledgeable and most of the members are so very caring and helpful. When we are in pain we are extremely sensitive to criticism. It can take just one thoughtless comment to put someone over the edge. And that edge can be deadly.

I have been hesitant to share this site with people because of the issues you are addressing in this thread. When I recently did share about SR I made sure to say it is like meetings - it's mostly good but if you don't like something, move on to the next good thing. And also I shared the ignore feature!

There is so much in your post I wanted to quote. Truly needed to hear this and I will be coming back and rereading your powerful words in order to be more helpful to others in my own posting. I guess the preview post feature is kind of a pause and think button?!

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Old 02-26-2014, 04:46 AM
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MG,

I too want to thank you for your post. Wise words based on years of experience.
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Old 02-26-2014, 05:18 AM
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Maybe this should be a sticky. I too think I would like to read it over and over
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Old 02-26-2014, 05:32 AM
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The lesson of SR (to me) is......be kind or go home.

People who come here hurting do not seek out SR
because they want to be beaten to a pulp.

Sometimes they just come here to be among
others (who have also been beaten to a pulp,by addiction)
and feel the sense of community as we all lick our wounds together.

We don't come to the watering hole to be attacked.
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Old 02-26-2014, 06:26 AM
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Originally Posted by FourTwentyOne View Post
Maybe this should be a sticky. I too think I would like to read it over and over
I second this......perhaps this gentle reminder shouldn't be lost into the oblivion of old posts. It is sticky worthy.

gentle hugs
ke
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Old 02-26-2014, 06:51 AM
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Beautifully worded and a good read Morning Glory . Thanks for that , it's thought provoking &eloquently put .

People come here so desperate and are at their lowest ebb.

If we can have them leave , feeling good about themselves and with a screrrick Of hope . They will want to return to SR .

When we first come here , our mind is not well .

We owe it to others to get the help we were so lucky to receive .

I am truly blessed that i never had 1 negative comment , I'm sure i would have felt intimidated and not returned if i had .


Xxx great post xxx
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Old 02-26-2014, 08:02 AM
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very very PINKful

thanks MG!!
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Old 02-26-2014, 09:01 AM
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Well said, MG. I know how confused I was when I got here, and I darn sure didn't need to be any more beaten up than I already was. You and Ann and others welcomed me, you held my hand through the scary parts and you shared your stories with me. You encouraged me to "take what I liked and leave the rest" and you honored me and respected me as I stumbled along on my own unique journey.

I'm fairly confident I would have left if I'd been bullied or overly criticized. There's a time for tough love, no doubt, but I believe that comes after there's been a relationship established, one built on time, experience and trust.

Thanks for all you do here, to continue to make this a safe place for those who are seeking solutions.
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Old 02-26-2014, 09:17 AM
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Thank you Morning Glory! I love reading your posts, you are able to articulate things into a post that really resonate with me.

I appreciate you!
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Old 02-26-2014, 09:36 AM
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I assure everyone that this will become a sticky as soon as it runs its course on the main part of the forum, the message is so clear and helpful to all and I know I will read it often any time I feel the urge to push my views or criticize the views of others.

All I need to do is share what worked for me and offer kindness and support to anyone who struggles. How simple that concept is, yet how hard to employ sometimes.

Although I have had many years in recovery and I have been here 12 years next month, I need to always remember what it felt like to be a newcomer, to remember how scared and exhausted and fragile I was, and yet how deep my heels were dug in as I struggled to change...and then I need to treat the newcomer with the kindness that was shown me when I was new to recovery. I was blessed to arrive the same day as Morning Glory and it was she, and CatsPajamas and so many others here that saw me through my darkest days and it's important for me to not just feel grateful, but to use the memory of how hard it was in the early days, to help others here who are feeling that same pain.

So I shall sticky this thread, as a reminder to myself and to others here, how important it is to reach out to each newcomer with kindness and support.

Hugs
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