Husband relapsed - but doesn't see it that way
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Derry
Posts: 45
I'd like to thank you all. Yes, I married an addict. Yes, addiction is a lifelong disease...I understand this now, and understood at the time. Some of you are commenting like I should have seen this coming - well I guess I was stupid, thank you for pointing that out. The rest of you have given me a lot of help, hope and advice and I couldn't be more appreciative. I know there's a long path ahead of him, and us if I choose to be there. It is my choice. I vowed sickness and in health - and I'm struggling with that this week. I didn't vow in lies and deceit. I understand weak moments, I understand desire...we all have them. Somedays with 5 kids I want to get in my car and drive far far away, sometimes I want to go on a shopping spree, BUT I DON'T. It's choices, it's deciding my family and my life are more important than a 1 day trip into la la land. Deep down I know he loves us, deep down I know he feels sorry, but right now I'm angry still. I had previously said that maybe tomorrow I'll feel differently, well it's tomorrow and I do feel a little different, but I'm still disappointed in him, and I'm still angry that he lied to my face. Long road, yes. Long crappy bumpy road. I wont' sleep next to someone who I don't trust. I don't think anyone should. He has a lot to gain back, and it pisses me off he threw away years of being clean for a sore back (which I know was an excuse to use). I'm not a parole officer, I'm not his mother and I don't want to be in that role. I have 5 kids to parent I don't need a 6th. I won't compromise my life, I won't stay up all night worrying, check his cell phone bill, make him turn out his pockets when he gets home from work...that is all too much and I won't do it. So, I'm still working on my game plan, and I haven't really spoken to him much. He knows that I love him, if I didn't I wouldn't give a damn what he put into his body. He knows that I'm struggling, he knows I'm hurt and he knows that I'm protecting the kids from his bad decisions. Thank you for the positive comments, I need those.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Lakeside, Ca
Posts: 10,208
Originally Posted by penny9175 
he admitted to buying some vicodins in November at a weak moment
but didn't use them and when his back started hurting he took them
He says it's not a relapse because he took them for what they are used for
since they were not prescribed by his doctor this was indeed a relapse
why not suggest to him to see his doctor and explain his back issue
if his doctor prescribes then he is free to take pills (as prescribed only)
it's interesting that you put a drug test on him from time to time
seems that the 100 % trust between you two is lacking a little
as long as it stops now
I wouldn't make the biggest of deals out of all this
hope that all get's worked out between you and your husband
Mountainman
Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 250
Originally Posted by cleaninLI
If you were so concerned about drugs and drug use ruining your children's lives why did you marry an addict in the first place? .
He told her had been clean, his actions showed it and she believed him. She had hope that they would continue to build a life together without drugs. There are people who manage to get clean, stay clean, and have loving/healthy relationships with their loves ones. At some point, we all think the addict in our life will be a success story and it's heartbreaking on so many levels when they relapse.
She is now dealing with the reality of the situation by putting the well-being of the kids, not the addict, first. So many people center their lives around the addict and their addiction, sometimes at the expense of other family members.
Penny, wherever this journey takes you, know that we are all here to help and support you. I'm glad you joined SR and I hope you keep coming back. There will be different opinions and advice, so as the saying goes, take what you need and leave the rest. Wishing you and your family the very best. Take care of yourself and I hope you do something nice for yourself this weekend.
Hugs
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Derry
Posts: 45
There is no way his Dr would prescribe him any opiate, the drug testing periodically was part of his commitment to staying clean-something he did for his parents while they helped him get clean and something he continued to do because he understood the damage he had done to them. You can't hurt people over and over and over, say sorry and expect it to disappear. He screwed up, A LOT, from his early teens to his mid/late 20's. We're in our 30's now. I trust this man with my kids, with my heart, with my money, with everything that matters - while understanding that he is an addict and the random tests were part of his commitment to his parents. They ALWAYS came up clean and it was just another rung in a ladder for him to climb towards regaining their trust back, as well as giving me reassurance that he was still on a good path. Why is random drug testing of an addict a bad sign? I mean come on, in one line I'm being told random drug testing was sign of mistrust and in the next line I'm being scolded for trusting him...seriously. Random drug testing and the knowledge that he would disappoint us was one of the reasons he stayed strong in Nov. There hasn't been a random test since August of last year, and look how well that worked for us. It's not a lack of trust, it's knowing he's an addict, knowing relapse is a very real thing, it's what might be the thing that kept him clean all these years, and it's going to done more often. Drug use in my home with my business and my children is not acceptable. If he wants to be with me (because other than this we really do have a great life) than random testing is something he will do without any issue. If he wants to continue with this and turn it into a full blown relapse than random drug testing is not going to go smoothly and that will be the proof to me that family/sobriety is not what he wants. He already knows that he has to find a counselor and he has to go to meetings. What sucks, there are no NA meetings in this area that I can find at all. I suppose he could go to the AA meetings, but I don't know if that would make sense.
Everyone has ways of coping with an addict, or addiction. Ours was random drug tests, and it was working. Don't keep saying I didn't trust this man, because if I trusted him with my children-a random test here and there is small potatoes.
Everyone has ways of coping with an addict, or addiction. Ours was random drug tests, and it was working. Don't keep saying I didn't trust this man, because if I trusted him with my children-a random test here and there is small potatoes.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 413
Addicts lie. Drug tests don't.
On the surface, drug tests seem intrusive, but honestly I can't really criticize them because I lived with an addict too, and only regret that I didn't understand what was going on earlier. I believed the smoke and mirrors. Had I insisted on a drug test, I could have made important decisions much earlier in the game. As it was I had no idea how frequent the drug use was. You're lucky that you had this opportunity to find out the truth. Now the problem is, what do you do now that you know the truth?
In my situation, I established a boundary. I will never, ever involve myself in the future with someone who I would feel any need to test for drugs.
On the surface, drug tests seem intrusive, but honestly I can't really criticize them because I lived with an addict too, and only regret that I didn't understand what was going on earlier. I believed the smoke and mirrors. Had I insisted on a drug test, I could have made important decisions much earlier in the game. As it was I had no idea how frequent the drug use was. You're lucky that you had this opportunity to find out the truth. Now the problem is, what do you do now that you know the truth?
In my situation, I established a boundary. I will never, ever involve myself in the future with someone who I would feel any need to test for drugs.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Lakeside, Ca
Posts: 10,208
what I need to do and what I need not to do
Originally Posted by penny9175
Why is random drug testing of an addict a bad sign?
it's what might be the thing that kept him clean all these years
guess I didn't have all the facts straight in my head
if his doctor will not prescribe -- then it's a no
maybe there is something other than his drug of choice
that they may prescribe for him (for his pain) only
as long as his doctor has all of the facts
the reason that I recommended a trip to his doctor was
I know that my doctor would only prescribe something
that he would consider safe for me (knowing my past history)
you have made what I think to be a good solid point
maybe those test did help to keep him clean at times
some will say that you can't make one stay clean and sober
I disagree
knowing that I have a loving wife
that in no way would put up with my old drinking and using ways
DOES help to remind me today of
what I need to do and what I need not to do
good luck
Mountainman
Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: new moon road
Posts: 1,545
As the former loving wife of a man with severe alcoholism, I can attest that the uncontrollable compulsive disease of addiction is far more powerful than love, and that many spouses hang on to a partner in active addiction far too long because they think love influences addiction. It does not.
Boundaries are essential. The addict mind will manipulate and delude in the most diabolical of ways to feed the compulsion to use. The first step of AA and Al-Anon is "We are powerless over alcoholism/drug addiction" and it is true. The notion that anyone can sit down with someone in active addiction and talk them out of their compulsive behaviors with rational arguments just does not make sense to me at all. There are millions of loving spouses on the planet who have tried it, endlessly, passionately, desperately, and it simply does not work. Talking, debating, analyzing, does not work.
Action works. Action based on very defined boundaries works. But only sometimes. Because there is a very slim rate of recovery among people in active addiction. But at least with boundaries and action, there is a chance. Without those, without family members who set clearly defined boundaries and hold them for dear life, there is little chance that the addict will hit the hard wall of reality, crumble, and make that decision that he wants to get clean and sober for good and will do whatever it takes. It is a life-changing awakening. Without that, the addict will continue to obsess about the drug, will rationalize using the drug, and will use every addict skill of manipulation to control his family into backing off when they try to hold the boundaries which are essential.
This is called the Merry-Go-Round of Addiction. It has been written about for decades. It does not change. And newcomers to the world of addiction do not have the long experience of watching it happen over and over and over, But those who have been in recovery for decades do. They know this game. They also know it is what feeds addiction and destroys the mental health of those involved with the addict, especially the children who have to live with an active addict while he is "trying to get his act together."
Penny, I recommend a strong Al-Anon group, the brochure published by Al-Anon titled "Alcoholism: A Merry-Go-Round of Denial" (applies equally to marriage to a drug addict), and a counselor for you who does not coddle addicts who make excuses about picking pain pills and thus does not join with the spouse in rationalizing drug use. Your husband is in active addiction and this is a very very critical time.
Boundaries are essential. The addict mind will manipulate and delude in the most diabolical of ways to feed the compulsion to use. The first step of AA and Al-Anon is "We are powerless over alcoholism/drug addiction" and it is true. The notion that anyone can sit down with someone in active addiction and talk them out of their compulsive behaviors with rational arguments just does not make sense to me at all. There are millions of loving spouses on the planet who have tried it, endlessly, passionately, desperately, and it simply does not work. Talking, debating, analyzing, does not work.
Action works. Action based on very defined boundaries works. But only sometimes. Because there is a very slim rate of recovery among people in active addiction. But at least with boundaries and action, there is a chance. Without those, without family members who set clearly defined boundaries and hold them for dear life, there is little chance that the addict will hit the hard wall of reality, crumble, and make that decision that he wants to get clean and sober for good and will do whatever it takes. It is a life-changing awakening. Without that, the addict will continue to obsess about the drug, will rationalize using the drug, and will use every addict skill of manipulation to control his family into backing off when they try to hold the boundaries which are essential.
This is called the Merry-Go-Round of Addiction. It has been written about for decades. It does not change. And newcomers to the world of addiction do not have the long experience of watching it happen over and over and over, But those who have been in recovery for decades do. They know this game. They also know it is what feeds addiction and destroys the mental health of those involved with the addict, especially the children who have to live with an active addict while he is "trying to get his act together."
Penny, I recommend a strong Al-Anon group, the brochure published by Al-Anon titled "Alcoholism: A Merry-Go-Round of Denial" (applies equally to marriage to a drug addict), and a counselor for you who does not coddle addicts who make excuses about picking pain pills and thus does not join with the spouse in rationalizing drug use. Your husband is in active addiction and this is a very very critical time.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Derry
Posts: 45
Thank you Englishgarden. I'm looking for local meetings in my area for myself as well as my mother in law. I thought there would be more in my community, but I'm having a hard time. I appreciate the wisdom you shared, thank you
Member
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Chicago,il
Posts: 71
Merely an opinion so treat it as such. No intent to be harmful with comments which much come across that way. We are merely calling it like we see it....and we only have bits and pieces of info based on what you post. Nobody here can know enough....nor be capable enough to make educated comments with lack of info. As many say - take what you can and leave the rest.
He should absolutely do AA mtgs. My narc buddies prefer AA mtgs over NA as there tends to be longer term sobriety, etc. get him going as often as possible. His actions will speak volumes.
Question/observation. - I have a difficult time believing an addict, an addict that has relapsed, that he illegally bought drugs in Nov and just now used them. Smells fishy. Addicts couldn't sit on the drugs that long.
Also - how much did he buy? From whom? How much is left?
The dude is a liar. How do you believe anything he says let alone his lame excuse after he blatantly lied to your face? Doesn't sound right but does sound like a an active addict.
Remember what you wrote. Is this a guy you love that much that causes you to act like you are? What do you and your kids deserve? Is this it?
--------
I asked him and he got defensive, saying that my lack of trust in him hurt him. I got a test anyway, and he came up positive for opiates. After acting like a jerk for a few minutes, "NO WAY, That's impossible, how'd I come up dirty"
He should absolutely do AA mtgs. My narc buddies prefer AA mtgs over NA as there tends to be longer term sobriety, etc. get him going as often as possible. His actions will speak volumes.
Question/observation. - I have a difficult time believing an addict, an addict that has relapsed, that he illegally bought drugs in Nov and just now used them. Smells fishy. Addicts couldn't sit on the drugs that long.
Also - how much did he buy? From whom? How much is left?
The dude is a liar. How do you believe anything he says let alone his lame excuse after he blatantly lied to your face? Doesn't sound right but does sound like a an active addict.
Remember what you wrote. Is this a guy you love that much that causes you to act like you are? What do you and your kids deserve? Is this it?
--------
I asked him and he got defensive, saying that my lack of trust in him hurt him. I got a test anyway, and he came up positive for opiates. After acting like a jerk for a few minutes, "NO WAY, That's impossible, how'd I come up dirty"
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,927
Despite all the varying opinions on home drug testing, I think all that really matters is that you and your husband have a system that works for your family. I believe I understand the intent; to identify a relapse early on, and encourage him to get treatment quickly. I agree with that, and it is actually what is recommended by medical professionals. We know now that people do not have to hit a rock bottom before treatment works, we know family can encourage loved ones to enter treatment & it can be just as successful as any other route taken to get there.
My husband was required to do drug testing for his employer when he went back to work after rehab. He will have 2 years in April, and the testing just ended a couple months ago. It did give me some comfort in those early days knowing he worked with a therapist, was learning skills to prevent relapse, and was subject to testing at work. In all honesty, I would have been uncomfortable testing him myself because I think it changes the dynamics of the marital relationship; but I would not have had a problem asking him to make it part of his recovery work through his therapist if I felt it was necessary.
Studies actually do show that drug testing in early recovery can motivate people to stay clean, and I think this is what your reporting also. If they stay clean then they have more opportunity to create new patterns, learn skills to avoid ever going back to using.
I also have to say I do think family, love, relationships can provide critical support systems, and generate motivation for treatment and recovery. We cant love addiction away because it is a medical issue; it resides in the brain. We also cant cure our loved one of cancer, diabetes, or even asthma. So its sort of a non issue in that regard if you truly understand addiction. But we can do lots of other things... if we so desire.
My husband entered treatment because he was encouraged to do so... by me... other family members... And when he was in rehab one of his motivators for getting clean was wanting his family back, wanting to be a good dad to our son. He was an infant at the time, and my husband was actually reading baby books during his rehab stay. I know everyday he is inspired to stay clean because he wants to be a good father, a good example for his son, and a wonderful husband to me. So I agree with MountainMan, family can be a catalyst for change.
My husband was required to do drug testing for his employer when he went back to work after rehab. He will have 2 years in April, and the testing just ended a couple months ago. It did give me some comfort in those early days knowing he worked with a therapist, was learning skills to prevent relapse, and was subject to testing at work. In all honesty, I would have been uncomfortable testing him myself because I think it changes the dynamics of the marital relationship; but I would not have had a problem asking him to make it part of his recovery work through his therapist if I felt it was necessary.
Studies actually do show that drug testing in early recovery can motivate people to stay clean, and I think this is what your reporting also. If they stay clean then they have more opportunity to create new patterns, learn skills to avoid ever going back to using.
I also have to say I do think family, love, relationships can provide critical support systems, and generate motivation for treatment and recovery. We cant love addiction away because it is a medical issue; it resides in the brain. We also cant cure our loved one of cancer, diabetes, or even asthma. So its sort of a non issue in that regard if you truly understand addiction. But we can do lots of other things... if we so desire.
My husband entered treatment because he was encouraged to do so... by me... other family members... And when he was in rehab one of his motivators for getting clean was wanting his family back, wanting to be a good dad to our son. He was an infant at the time, and my husband was actually reading baby books during his rehab stay. I know everyday he is inspired to stay clean because he wants to be a good father, a good example for his son, and a wonderful husband to me. So I agree with MountainMan, family can be a catalyst for change.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: new moon road
Posts: 1,545
I take issue with the idea that family members "encouraging" a drug addict to get clean and being "supportive enough" will turn the tide.
In fact, I can imagine the knife to the gut thousands of spouses and parents of addicts must feel when they hear that. Because it is a fact, and a deeply tragic one, that the overwhelming majority of family members of addicts have given EVERYTHING, done everything, sacrificed their health, their money, their relationships, their children's security, EVERYTHING to somehow make an impact on an addict loved one which will make the difference and trigger recovery.
I think that laying any kind of responsibility in any way on a family member, whether implied or blatant, is harmful and hurtful. I have been in recovery since I was in my late 20's and I am now in my 50's and I can say that after sitting in hundreds of Al-Anon meetings and reading dozens of books on addiction and spending years in counseling that I know that not only are family members powerless over an addict's trajectory, but drug counselors are as well.
Consequences can propel an addict into an attempt at recovery. Those consequences can be: "I will not live with someone in active addiction nor allow my children to." "I will not remain married to someone in active addiction who is not seeking and maintaining a program of recovery." "I will not employ anyone in active addiction." "I will not loan money or cars to anyone in active addiction nor will I bail such person out of jail."
Addicts need to hit a wall. Otherwise, they will work the family, the employers, the friends to give them a pass, another chance, a third bailout, a fourth re-entry into the family home.
People's lives are too important. Children are too vulnerable. No one should be wrapped up into an addict's vortex of chaos because once damage is done, it remains. It remains, in the soul, in the heart, it affects thinking and behavior, and it simply makes people mentally ill. People who should never have had the responsibility nor been told they had a responsibility to guide a drug addict or alcoholic into permanently changing.
Addiction recovery belongs solely to the addict. Once stabilized after a long period of sobriety, then marriage issues can be the next step. But whether or not that stabilization happens is between the addict and his higher power.
In fact, I can imagine the knife to the gut thousands of spouses and parents of addicts must feel when they hear that. Because it is a fact, and a deeply tragic one, that the overwhelming majority of family members of addicts have given EVERYTHING, done everything, sacrificed their health, their money, their relationships, their children's security, EVERYTHING to somehow make an impact on an addict loved one which will make the difference and trigger recovery.
I think that laying any kind of responsibility in any way on a family member, whether implied or blatant, is harmful and hurtful. I have been in recovery since I was in my late 20's and I am now in my 50's and I can say that after sitting in hundreds of Al-Anon meetings and reading dozens of books on addiction and spending years in counseling that I know that not only are family members powerless over an addict's trajectory, but drug counselors are as well.
Consequences can propel an addict into an attempt at recovery. Those consequences can be: "I will not live with someone in active addiction nor allow my children to." "I will not remain married to someone in active addiction who is not seeking and maintaining a program of recovery." "I will not employ anyone in active addiction." "I will not loan money or cars to anyone in active addiction nor will I bail such person out of jail."
Addicts need to hit a wall. Otherwise, they will work the family, the employers, the friends to give them a pass, another chance, a third bailout, a fourth re-entry into the family home.
People's lives are too important. Children are too vulnerable. No one should be wrapped up into an addict's vortex of chaos because once damage is done, it remains. It remains, in the soul, in the heart, it affects thinking and behavior, and it simply makes people mentally ill. People who should never have had the responsibility nor been told they had a responsibility to guide a drug addict or alcoholic into permanently changing.
Addiction recovery belongs solely to the addict. Once stabilized after a long period of sobriety, then marriage issues can be the next step. But whether or not that stabilization happens is between the addict and his higher power.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 413
I have to agree with Englishgarden. I sacrificed a lot for my partner too. I am 50 and have about $65,000 of debt that is directly due to helping my partner -- trips to rehab, therapy, paying more than my share of the monthly expenses, etc. I have lost a lot of friends due to my addicts actions, and my career has suffered.
Allforcmn, you were one of the lucky ones. You pushed, and your husband went to rehab, and what he learned there stuck. He chose sobriety.
My experience was very different. I pushed, my partner went to rehab, and what he learned there didn't stick. He chose to relapse. Over and over again.
I appreciate your optimistic view, and think that it is important for readers here to be exposed to all points of view. But I sometimes sense an undertone in your posts -- and I may be completely misreading them and projecting my own experience -- but I sometimes sense an undertone in your shares that is subtly condemning of those of us who have chosen to back off, who have decided that we have sacrificed enough for our addicted loved ones, and that we aren't going to sacrifice any more. I sense an undertone in your posts that condemns those of us who have made a decision to put ourselves first.
This is important because many of us here on the "friends and family" side of the boards are not normal. We are as sick as our addicts, whether because of something in our upbringings or because of the experiences we have had living with addiction. And we are here to work on ourselves, to find the wisdom to make ourselves better.
Someone posted a while ago that it might be a good idea for the moderators to split this board into two boards -- one for those who are here specifically to help their addicts, and the other for those who are here to help themselves, despite what their addict does. I have only been posting for a few weeks here so I don't have a lot of skin in the game, but from my point of view I don't think that's a bad idea.
Allforcmn, you were one of the lucky ones. You pushed, and your husband went to rehab, and what he learned there stuck. He chose sobriety.
My experience was very different. I pushed, my partner went to rehab, and what he learned there didn't stick. He chose to relapse. Over and over again.
I appreciate your optimistic view, and think that it is important for readers here to be exposed to all points of view. But I sometimes sense an undertone in your posts -- and I may be completely misreading them and projecting my own experience -- but I sometimes sense an undertone in your shares that is subtly condemning of those of us who have chosen to back off, who have decided that we have sacrificed enough for our addicted loved ones, and that we aren't going to sacrifice any more. I sense an undertone in your posts that condemns those of us who have made a decision to put ourselves first.
This is important because many of us here on the "friends and family" side of the boards are not normal. We are as sick as our addicts, whether because of something in our upbringings or because of the experiences we have had living with addiction. And we are here to work on ourselves, to find the wisdom to make ourselves better.
Someone posted a while ago that it might be a good idea for the moderators to split this board into two boards -- one for those who are here specifically to help their addicts, and the other for those who are here to help themselves, despite what their addict does. I have only been posting for a few weeks here so I don't have a lot of skin in the game, but from my point of view I don't think that's a bad idea.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,854
My husband went to rehab because we forced him to. He was angry about it at first, told me I wasnt on his side because I agreed with his parents. He threatened to leave rehab, but in the end he stayed. YAY! In the end he thanked me. Without that I dont know where we would be. Early recovery has been HARD so far, paws and lots of emotional issues, but Im grateful he is alive, and that I can work on recovery with him. Yep, with him! we both do counseling alone and together. I was saying the other day, people on this family forum seem to think its weird, but not my counselor, not my family or my friends.
One thing is Im not unrealistic and I know he may relapse, but isnt that part of it? I married him through sickness and in health. Im not a victim in any of this because Im not in denial. Positive. Ive worked through that one and got the green light from my counselor to move along.
((Needabreak)) Im sorry your in debt over rehab, its expensive for sure. One of these days you should post your story here and share with us. I hope they didnt guarantee he would forever be in recovery after that one rehab!
One thing is Im not unrealistic and I know he may relapse, but isnt that part of it? I married him through sickness and in health. Im not a victim in any of this because Im not in denial. Positive. Ive worked through that one and got the green light from my counselor to move along.
((Needabreak)) Im sorry your in debt over rehab, its expensive for sure. One of these days you should post your story here and share with us. I hope they didnt guarantee he would forever be in recovery after that one rehab!
Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 786
EG wrote: No one should be wrapped up into an addict's vortex of chaos because once damage is done, it remains. It remains, in the soul, in the heart, it affects thinking and behavior, and it simply makes people mentally ill.
Vortex of chaos. Thank you for that. It's so telling.
I don't like the idea of splitting the board into those actively helping and those saving themselves. I'd venture to say that at one point we were almost all actively selling our own souls to help, to do anything, to make it work, to save our A. Some of us hit a point where we realized the choice was to mortgage our own lives AND often our children's lives (who had no choice) for someone who may not save themselves from spiraling down the drain with the chain around our necks.
In my opinion, the difference is this. We families are virtually the same, we tried the same, but SOME As have it in themselves to want up ENOUGH, to reach out and hold onto that love, and to look inward and make it happen. SOME do. Unfortunately, the stranglehold is so strong, that even few of those make it. It's SO HARD. The only difference between the two "sections" on this board is the action of the As we're with. Nothing else. Nobody here did a better or worse job. We all tried our hardest.
And as heartbreaking as it is, every week someone on this board likely flips from saving the A to saving themselves. Because it's just that hard. Yes, success stories exist, and I applaud them and will support them...but I won't judge if it changes. It's not my place anyway, but again...every last one of us committed to a relationship with an A is relying solely on someone else's behavior to keep it going (assuming we've created firm boundaries).
Perhaps a better thing would be a thread or forum dedicated to those "in it" who want support from others still trying- but with encouragement to read the other posts as well.
I believed so strongly my A could make it. I was at my wit's end when I found SR and started posting. I thought these dismal responders had no idea about MY husband- he was different. We were different. I could see it through and he'd want it enough. We had the kids, the dogs, the good jobs, the nice house. And he was an alcoholic for 20 years. It progressed quietly until it progressed loudly. I left these boards for a while because I didn't like what I heard. I needed to hear that we were going to make it. It depressed me to hear SO MUCH of the opposite, and advice to protect myself, see a lawyer...what?! But the postings and advice nagged at my brain and eventually supported me when I realized I didn't like them because they forced me to really look at my reality in a way I hadn't before as it kept crumbling. I couldn't make it get better for my A. But I owed it to my kids to save their future. I ultimately divorced.
Regarding the kids, dogs, good jobs, nice house...I still have them. He has NONE of them. And for now he doesn't care enough to change. Breaks my heart. Doesn't mean I didn't love him...it means I needed to love myself and my kids MORE. Provide for me and for them. And that was actually the harder action to take...until it wasn't.
That won't happen to everyone. Some will hold on and get through with their As. But I can say, as someone who joined the boards "on that side" and ended up "on this side", it breaks my heart all over again when I see those warning signs in another newbie post...and I know in my gut the agony they're in for. I now see what those veterans saw in me...and I'm so thankful they were brave enough to share, probably knowing I wouldn't like it or believe it. I'm grateful for the warnings and insights people provide. It might not happen to you, but we all need to know that IT CAN, and IT DOES, way more often than we'd like to see. We need to gather the life preservers and keep one eye on that life raft, regardless of our belief in the A.
I don't mean to hijack this post, but I've been reading these "splitting" thoughts and frankly think it does a disservice to newcomers. Like it or not, a majority will end up "on the other side", and some advance advice will ease the transition.
PENNY- hugs to you. I wish I had such clear boundaries early on as you appear to. Hold tight to your boundaries, your beliefs, and your gut...and watch carefully to see through the words, just watch action. The support of his family is also helpful.
The pain of what it might mean for his boys' lives if you ever leave must be very hard to deal with as well, and if things progress I'm sure that will be hard. I'm praying for you and your family. I am always a cautious believer. You can't go wrong if you trust yourself, act out of love to everyone involved, are willing to accept and forgive your own mistakes, and keep a firm hold on what is actually your reality. Whatever happens, you can know in your heart you've done your best. But please know that if he spirals, it has NOTHING to do with you. It's on him. I hope he can do it!
Again...hugs!
Vortex of chaos. Thank you for that. It's so telling.
I don't like the idea of splitting the board into those actively helping and those saving themselves. I'd venture to say that at one point we were almost all actively selling our own souls to help, to do anything, to make it work, to save our A. Some of us hit a point where we realized the choice was to mortgage our own lives AND often our children's lives (who had no choice) for someone who may not save themselves from spiraling down the drain with the chain around our necks.
In my opinion, the difference is this. We families are virtually the same, we tried the same, but SOME As have it in themselves to want up ENOUGH, to reach out and hold onto that love, and to look inward and make it happen. SOME do. Unfortunately, the stranglehold is so strong, that even few of those make it. It's SO HARD. The only difference between the two "sections" on this board is the action of the As we're with. Nothing else. Nobody here did a better or worse job. We all tried our hardest.
And as heartbreaking as it is, every week someone on this board likely flips from saving the A to saving themselves. Because it's just that hard. Yes, success stories exist, and I applaud them and will support them...but I won't judge if it changes. It's not my place anyway, but again...every last one of us committed to a relationship with an A is relying solely on someone else's behavior to keep it going (assuming we've created firm boundaries).
Perhaps a better thing would be a thread or forum dedicated to those "in it" who want support from others still trying- but with encouragement to read the other posts as well.
I believed so strongly my A could make it. I was at my wit's end when I found SR and started posting. I thought these dismal responders had no idea about MY husband- he was different. We were different. I could see it through and he'd want it enough. We had the kids, the dogs, the good jobs, the nice house. And he was an alcoholic for 20 years. It progressed quietly until it progressed loudly. I left these boards for a while because I didn't like what I heard. I needed to hear that we were going to make it. It depressed me to hear SO MUCH of the opposite, and advice to protect myself, see a lawyer...what?! But the postings and advice nagged at my brain and eventually supported me when I realized I didn't like them because they forced me to really look at my reality in a way I hadn't before as it kept crumbling. I couldn't make it get better for my A. But I owed it to my kids to save their future. I ultimately divorced.
Regarding the kids, dogs, good jobs, nice house...I still have them. He has NONE of them. And for now he doesn't care enough to change. Breaks my heart. Doesn't mean I didn't love him...it means I needed to love myself and my kids MORE. Provide for me and for them. And that was actually the harder action to take...until it wasn't.
That won't happen to everyone. Some will hold on and get through with their As. But I can say, as someone who joined the boards "on that side" and ended up "on this side", it breaks my heart all over again when I see those warning signs in another newbie post...and I know in my gut the agony they're in for. I now see what those veterans saw in me...and I'm so thankful they were brave enough to share, probably knowing I wouldn't like it or believe it. I'm grateful for the warnings and insights people provide. It might not happen to you, but we all need to know that IT CAN, and IT DOES, way more often than we'd like to see. We need to gather the life preservers and keep one eye on that life raft, regardless of our belief in the A.
I don't mean to hijack this post, but I've been reading these "splitting" thoughts and frankly think it does a disservice to newcomers. Like it or not, a majority will end up "on the other side", and some advance advice will ease the transition.
PENNY- hugs to you. I wish I had such clear boundaries early on as you appear to. Hold tight to your boundaries, your beliefs, and your gut...and watch carefully to see through the words, just watch action. The support of his family is also helpful.
The pain of what it might mean for his boys' lives if you ever leave must be very hard to deal with as well, and if things progress I'm sure that will be hard. I'm praying for you and your family. I am always a cautious believer. You can't go wrong if you trust yourself, act out of love to everyone involved, are willing to accept and forgive your own mistakes, and keep a firm hold on what is actually your reality. Whatever happens, you can know in your heart you've done your best. But please know that if he spirals, it has NOTHING to do with you. It's on him. I hope he can do it!
Again...hugs!
Member
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 413
Praying, upon thinking about it I agree with your post about splitting. Many people will end up moving from one side to other -- I know I did -- and may find wisdom in what they read, even if it doesn't apply to where they are now.
I think what makes it difficult though is this: many of us become as addicted to our addict's behavior as our loved ones are to their drug of choice. That in some ways is the core definition of codependence. Our addicted loved one becomes our drug of choice.
And to hold up "supporting" and "encouraging" our loved one as the best course of action no matter what sacrifice that entails for us can have the same effect on us codependents as holding up a syringe full of heroin can have on the addict. I don't doubt that the people who write such posts are think they are advocating compassionate behavior, but the effect for someone who is codependent is anything but compassionate.
You don't see this dynamic on the substance abuse board or the alcohol board because there is only one goal -- to stop using the drug of choice.
Praying, you sound like you are very far along in your own recovery, and you have become very successful in your own detachment from your situation. I am not there yet, but I am getting there, one day at a time!
I think what makes it difficult though is this: many of us become as addicted to our addict's behavior as our loved ones are to their drug of choice. That in some ways is the core definition of codependence. Our addicted loved one becomes our drug of choice.
And to hold up "supporting" and "encouraging" our loved one as the best course of action no matter what sacrifice that entails for us can have the same effect on us codependents as holding up a syringe full of heroin can have on the addict. I don't doubt that the people who write such posts are think they are advocating compassionate behavior, but the effect for someone who is codependent is anything but compassionate.
You don't see this dynamic on the substance abuse board or the alcohol board because there is only one goal -- to stop using the drug of choice.
Praying, you sound like you are very far along in your own recovery, and you have become very successful in your own detachment from your situation. I am not there yet, but I am getting there, one day at a time!
Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,854
Originally Posted by Needabreak
And to hold up "supporting" and "encouraging" our loved one as the best course of action no matter what sacrifice that entails for us can have the same effect on us codependents as holding up a syringe full of heroin can have on the addict.
Maybe there should be a forum strictly for codependency, or isnt 12 step forum mostly about your codependency? (im not sure, so I ask ?) or people can use the ignore button, or leave a thread if it triggers you.
Penny is asking for generalized help, what we each have experienced and can share.
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
