BC..you know I respect you very much. I know you and your family did initially save your husband out of a drug den. However, I am getting ready to say something you will not like. I say it not with malice but because it is what I believe and ponder in my own life (esp with a husband getting ready to come off probation himself).

I have a question because I do not want to assume something that is incorrect but believe I read. Your husband did not elect to continue with outpatient, isn't that correct? Isn't that the reason his work appointed him a sober coach that he has fought not to use? He has been drug tested by said sober coach and knows he could be at any given time? Truly, I just want to get my facts straight, I am not saying this with malice. So, that portion of his recovery has not been his choice, it has been chosen for him.

I am saying these things because I have mixed feelings. You can encourage someone to go to treatment, you cannot "make" them apply those tools in their life once they are on their own. Honestly, you can mark someone's recovery by looking at their actions OVER THE LONG TERM. You also have to take a look at those actions once they are no longer under the monitor. What are they willing to do when no one is looking and testing them? When they have no one to account to except themselves. Probation will drug test. A sober coach will drug test. People know they will have huge consequences if those tests come back dirty. I don't really think that is "recovery" per say. I think that is staying clean to avoid the consequences.

I am not saying your husband would relapse, how would I know?? I simply know that addiction is a life long obstacle that you have to be willing to work on every single day for the rest of your life. That is what your mindset has to change to to actually "recover."

In the long run, how is life going to be for the spouse? For myself, I too was willing to support my husband. I found him a rehab, emoationally supported him through it, sent care packages, the list goes on. He was clean for a year. After a year, he let up, and he relapsed. I cannot will him to want to stay clean. He is a big boy who knows the consequences of his behavior. He has been given the tools and has chosen not to apply those in his life. So yes, he went to treatment. He went to counseling. He works in social work for goodness sakes! He is also still and addict, he still mixes alcohol with Rx pills and eventually it is going to catch up to him.

In the mean time, I am running our home. I am doing all things for my kids. I am running my life and my children's lives completely. I don't have the energy to run his too. This has went on for YEARS. He has become another child I have to mind. I am giving him to God because I realize I, nor his family, can make him well.

If he makes the choice for himself we would support him. However, we cannot choose it for him. I do see it the same as having another medical problem. However, if you are given the medication to get over any medical illness and don't want it or use it, why do you have a responsibility to continue to nurse that person along.

BC, you have put so much into your husband's recovery, it is admirable. However, my question is, how long could you do it for? How many times could you do it for? At what point would your sanity trump his addiction?

Lastly, I will say one more thing. My children mean every single to me. I brought them into this life and I am responsible for their well being. That is an added pressure that is like nothing else in life. If it were just myself and my spouse it would be one thing. However, while I can walk away from my spouse, my children cannot. He will be their father forever. These thoughts guide everything I do. When I walk it is not just myself I have to support, I have to support two children just like the original poster of this thread would have to both emoationally and financially.

I do respect you BC. I think you are articulate and obviously a kind and forgiving person for what you have been through. I guess I just feel the need to explain why I say what I say, especially when there are children involved. I feel addiction has robbed years off of my life and I absolutely hate seeing that happen to other people, and more importantly to their children.

I do think addiction is a family disease, and I believe those family programs work. So much focus is on the addict that often times the family is lost in the battle.

Perhaps some people's opinions come from a place of guilt and ego.....not their programs.

Sorry, but I will never agree with holding any child accountable for reporting on my addictions to another adult healthy perspective.

Can we knock off bashing each other and get back to sharing our own personal experiences and remember this brand new member in pain?

Sadwife, I'm sorry for the reasons that brought you here. As you can tell by all the many people triggered by your post, there are many people who were once or are now in your position, or were otherwise hurt by addiction in someone they love. You will find there are many different approaches to recovery and many different personalities here. There are those who want to push you to do it their way and those who want to share their experiences. I'd encourage you to read in the forums...despite the bickering here, you will find lots of posters with lots of experiences to share. As you read you may find people or situations that you relate to. Only you can decide what is best for you and your family, but deciding to reach out for help is a great first step!

My experience was with a child who was an opiate addict. She did progress to snorting heroin, although in my view I am not sure there is that much difference - an opiate is an opiate and they mess with your brain and strangle your life no matter what the form. In time she did want help...but then sometimes she didn't; she did go for treatment several times, but the lure of the opiate pulled her back time and again over the course of a year, and unfortunately she died.

What I did learn during that time was I could encourage and support her and be there for her as her mom and let her know I loved her, but I couldn't force her to be clean and I had to let her deal with the consequences of her actions. Anything I did to protect her before that was only making things worse.

Working on me helped save me and I really think it helped her too, despite what happened. The time we had together was good and I am so glad those last months were not spent trying to control and push her and argue and be a crazy person.

Keeping you and your family in my thoughts and prayers.

I just posted this on another thread I think it fits here too. I have struggled with clinical depression for a long time and with the help of my family and a treatment program I have gotten better. My family however had serious boundaries, they put themselves first always. I had to exhibit personal integrity and compliance with the treatment program at all times. My problems weren't due to illicit substances but I still had to want to get better. The treatment program had rules which I had to follow I had to take my meds, I had to want it. Every day I have to want it, despite the fact that depression is not my fault, I have to participate in my getting well. All people who are capable of participating in their treatment for any illness have to or it won't work.

The problem here is that the OPs husband doesn't want to be part of the solution, your husband obviously wants to be so he is participating in a program. That is the line in the sand that so many people draw on here and it is a line that all professionals I have worked with draw: you have to do your part no one can do it for you. I have had professionals drop me because I didn't show up for treatment. The OPs emotional and physical safety is paramount as she is the caregiver for children who cannot protect themselves a line must be drawn for them even if the OP refuses to do it for herself.

I am very sorry if anyone thinks I was "bashing" another. I am very sad for what brought Sadwife here and hope my perspective has helped see what happens when your children grow with addiction, it is something relevant to her life. I also shared my thoughts on rehab on a couple of different threads including this one as I also believe it is relevant to the discussion.

Sadwife, I offer you support and tight hugs. I know you are hurting, take it one baby step at a time.

God Bless.

ps...greeteachday....I am so very sorry for your loss and am amazed at your strength.

Wow ! What a thread ! I am recovering heroin addict and at times a struggling recovery. What gets me is that all these viewpoints whether to 'help him' or 'get out of there'.. He is in 'the moment', he doesn't have time to care, he's definitely taking heroin by the sounds of it, he's on the up and up and will carry on until there is no money left. He should go to a professional detox asap while he still has the option open to him... Basically it is his decision to go one way or the other... The poor pregnant lady is the victim of all this and how much of a victim is her decision.... But he is in his own world, probably planning world domination ! Take the kids to your mums and run before it all goes seriously wrong... There are drugs in the house, if the kid takes the drugs ,the kid dies and then it's all tooooo late.....

I really hope SadWife that your husband can get clean and recover and that your pregnancy goes smoothly. :hug:

Hopeful, I don't think your post was bashing at all. It really resonated with me as I have been struggling with the same issues lately. It all seems so easy during and after the first rehab, but one's assumptions do get tested when their addict decides a few months later to go for his/her second or third (or hundredth) ride on the addiction train.

Blue Chair, I hope you're never in the position that we are, and that your husband's recovery sticks. But many of us have been on this merry go round too many times. When we respond we can only respond from our own experience. Sometimes it ends happily, often it does not. And then we sit here thinking "if only I had known 10 years ago what I was in for, and what I know now."

I would have run as fast as I could had I known. We only get one life, and I wish I hadn't spend so much of it dealing with someone else's addiction.

Your too hard on yourself, your always thoughtful and considerate. You care Hopeful4 and it shows. I sent you a p.m because I dont think its right to answer your post, talk about me on this persons thread.

((Hopeful4))

I'm so sorry SadWife.

As a child of an alcoholic father and codependent mother, I became codependent.

Two of my loved ones are addicted. It is devastating and so painful to watch. It was a terribly long time, in which I almost destroyed myself, to finally realize that I have no control over their decision to recover. I was not able to find peace until I removed myself from their active lives. My resolve to "stay strong" could only last so long. I found myself accepting things that, on looking back, were really unacceptable. My boundaries were slowly eroded away.

After removing myself from their addicted lives, I focused on myself for the first time. Why did I accept the unacceptable? Why did I neglect myself and put all my thoughts and energy into my loved ones with addictions? It's taken a lot of work, and my two qualifiers are now back in my life, but with strong healthy boundaries. I have learned to detach with love. It is beautiful. I've learned I can be happy.

It hasn't been easy, and it's a daily reprieve achieved with my recovery program.

Keep coming back. Read the stickies. They are amazing!

I would like to make it clear as well I was in NO WAY bashing Sadwife! I was alarmed that she was thinking of having four children with an addict who is already emotionally abusing her and felt she may be feeling like she is possibly to blame for some of the issues (he said she wasn't cleaning enough, etc) She is going through a horrific ordeal and I feel the utmost sadness for her on this. I believe my post may have been misinterpreted and if it offended her I am deeply sorry. I feel bad for anyone who is going through this with a loved one, family member or friend. It is heart wrenching and one of the worst things one will ever go through. I pray for each and every one of you every single night. No matter what our stories, or how different we may be or feel, I have never seen anyone bash another person on here. Yes, some do give advice and it can be very hard to hear and accept but I do not doubt for one minute it is said with love and care.
Hopeful, you couldn't be mean if you tried and BC knows that and shows she is a class act all the way by her answer! It saddens me to think anyone on here could ever feel that something was said in a hurtful way or ever felt someone was "bashing" them.
Sadwife, I have never met a more loving, caring, kind, considerate group of people who are here night and day to help you or me or anyone else who comes here full of grief, pain and many questions. We are all here for the same reason and all going through our own personal hell. It saddens me that someone reads a post written by another and make assumptions on what the intent was without asking or talking to the person in private. I hope and pray Sadwife that everything works out for you and that you take good care of yourself because you matter to us and you deserve to be treated with dignity and respect.

Hi SadWife,

I'm glad you decided to join SR and reach out for help. I'm also glad you told your mom. Addiction thrives on secrecy (and denial). As you can see, many of us have been in your shoes and can relate to what you are going through (guilt, depression, anxiety, confusion, hope, etc). Even though we are all on the same journey (recovery), we are all at different points in that journey (some of us take detours), which may explain the wide range of responses in this post.

Please know that we are all concerned about you and your family. You've mentioned that you don't want to attend NA meetings for the rest of your life. Would you be willing to go to a few meetings? I haven't gone to meetings in a while, but when I did, I found them to be very therapeutic and helpful. Living with an addict can be so overwhelming, it consumes every area of our life, so it's important for us to learn healthy ways of dealing with it.

You've mention that he's taking pills, not crack or meth. Addiction is addiction. People spiral out of control for pills, they lose everything (family, job, home), and it has lead to many people overdosing. Comparing it to other addictions and saying "It's not as bad as..." is a something we tell ourselves to make us feel better, but in reality we're trying to minimize the problem.
For me, things started to change when I started to think with my head and not just with my heart. Sometimes we are so blinded by our love and our desire to "do the right thing and save them/marriage" that common sense goes right out the window.

No one can tell you to stay or leave, that is totally up to you. Just know that this is a safe place to vent and reach out. Please take care of yourself and keep coming back. You are not alone. Hugs

Dear SadWife - very sorry you have joined this dark club of addiction and sending you good thoughts and prayers for strength. People here care deeply about the fellow sufferer. You are not alone. When children are involved people get quite passionate.

Something that helps me when I get overwhelmed by advise - take what you need and leave the rest.

Please keep posting, and reading. Taking care of ourselves restores us to sanity in an insane situation. Maybe find some quiet time? I find if I can make my mind be still I can find a level of peace, no matter how small.

Praying for you and all of your family.

Oh geez! I meant I'm sorry you are experienircing this dark place - really glad you found SR! This is the other side of the coin, lots of light an hope. Welcome an stick around! (I'll shut up now!)

I appreciate everyone on here and all of your support. Sadwife, I think it boils down to we all understand where you are, your hurts, your FEARS, all of it. I have said before that there are so many WONDERFUL people on here, it makes me so sad that addicition is what has brought us together instead of some great other thing we may have in common.

I hope you have a calm and blessed day and that you take care of yourself in every way that you can. Keep posting, you are not alone. No matter what decisions you ultimately make, we are here supporting you.

Hugs and God Bless!

Okay...It's bedtime and I haven't had a chance to read through everything, and there is a lot I want to say.
The most important thing is that I DO NOT WANT 4 KIDS WITH AN ACTIVE ADDICT WHO IS A WORTHLESS FATHER AND HUSBAND. I want 4 kids with the intelligent, caring man who is still there underneath the addiction. I want that man back. That man wants to come back, and is trying to find his way out from the addiction. However, if I don't get him back, then I will settle into life with my 2 kids. I work full time, I don't need my husbands income to make sure every bill I have is paid. I have a family that is wonderful, and who would make being a single mom a whole lot easier than I could ever ask for. I already have my exit plans figured out, and I have always had my own bank account. My kids will be the center of my world and we will be fine.
I am not keeping the house clean because I am submissive to him. I am keeping the house clean so that I can have my "F*ck you, I GAVE you healthy options to deal with stress, and you tried to turn it around on me, and I was right and you were not" moment. Now, I know that isn't the grown up way to deal with that. Fortunately, the grown up side of me enjoys having the house clean, and it gives me something to do so that I am not focusing on him. And he still is responsible for scrubbing the floors because that is his job and I hate doing them.
I made a vow over 2 years ago. "In sickness and in health, till death do us part" Addiction is a disease. I wouldn't turn my back on him if he had cancer that was ruining us financially. I will not turn my back on him now until he demonstrates that he is not worth standing by. I have only been fighting my own war with his addiction for maybe a month. He deserves more time than that.
My sister found out yesterday that her 15 week pregnancy had come to an end at week 8, and she had to have a DNC today. It has helped me find new perspective, or maybe just helped me find somewhere else to devote my emotions. I can let him deal with his addiction while my heart breaks for the niece or nephew I don't get to meet, and for my little sister.
What will be will be. Tomorrow is a new day, and I will deal with it when it is here. Today, I will appreciate that my husband and I have been able to have open conversations about his addiction without leading to fights, and what treatment options are available to us financially, etc. I appreciate that he wants his life back as much as I do, and that he is trying to find his way out of this hell. I appreciate this precious life I am carrying, and the 2 year old asleep on my lap right now, and I would not have either of them without him, whether or not he is still in the picture in years to come.

Im glad you came back by… looks like your thread turned into a wild ride !

Im so sorry about your sisters pregnancy. I will send out a prayer for her, and your whole family tonight. Sadly, tragedy does have a way of putting life into perspective. I personally agree with all the views you just shared regarding time, marriage, family, and also the gift of children. As difficult as all this is, to me you seem very focused and level-headed. There are so many variables at play when dealing with any type of chronic illness; we just have to evaluate and try to make the best decisions for ourselves, our family; at given points in time.

I hope you have a peaceful evening. My little 2 year old is cuddled up with his kitties tonight; one real, one stuffed. Stories read, one last sip of water delivered. How can one not be thankful.

Alright, I've had a chance to catch up on everything, and first things first:
Thank you to everyone who has given advice, personal experiences, and prayers. I never imagined there would be so many responses when I started this post.
It's hard to tell the whole story without writing a book. Nothing is black and white, there are so many factors in every situation.
I need to clarify that he DOES want help. He seems to me to be in a place where he can't keep going as is, but he is scared to go through the withdrawal and face life without the pills.
Now, with his family history, I feel like it has made a huge impact on how he deals with life. I found a text from his dad that said something along the lines of "I know you are under a ton of stress as a husband and young father" Now, this is a man who gave my husband a backrub after I gave birth. Cause it was soooo hard on him, you know... Not. He coddles him and gives him excuses for his mistakes. I want so badly for his dad to say "Hey, my alcoholism destroyed my marriage to your mother. LEARN FROM ME. Don't make the same mistakes I made. Get off this sh*t & do it now before you lose a child you haven't gotten to meet yet" instead of "Yea, you have a pill addiction. It's okay cause your life is sooo hard."
Now, I'm not trying to excuse the choices hubby has made for himself. He has seen his dad struggle, he knows the reality of addiction, and I stupidly believed that he would keep himself from that path because he knows how destructive it is.
So, back to he does want help. I found a 3 week long program 8 am -Noon mon-fri. Free aftercare. Cost is $4500, I am not sure if our insurance will help any. That is on the to-do list for tomorrow. He wants to try a suboxone program, which does include therapy/meetings 3-4 days a week in the beginning stage. He wants to do the suboxone so he can deal with the mental aspect of the addiction before facing the physical withdrawal. I feel like he is just trying to postpone getting off of some kind of medication, mainly because a friend of his is going through suboxone treatment, and has been for 4-6 months. Now, in my resilient to addiction, if you want something do it, brain, I can't find a single reason it should take that long to get clean. The therapy needs to continue, yes, but the dependency on the drugs should be done. Sooo I don't know if I am just expecting too much. I told him if he decides the suboxone program is right for him, then I can support it as long as he is going to the gym & creating those natural endorphins he will need to get off the suboxone. (I've been doing a lot of reading on suboxone.) As well as being very clear with the doctor that he is not looking for long term maintenance drugs, but that he needs the lowest dosage that is required to help his body/mind resist the cravings and a plan to taper down as quickly as possible. I don't think I will be able to accept him still not being clean when this baby is born. He's got so much ahead of him, and if he can't realize now that our life will be better without a drug in his system all the time then I'm not sure how he would ever realize it.
I am willing to go to meetings with him. I know I don't have my head right in how you deal with an addict, and how addiction can grip someone. I know it is ultimately up to them. I know I can't make him do anything. He has to decide to save himself. It is hard to accept that I have no control in this. That other people can help him, and his family cannot. That I can't just look him in the eyes and say "Man up and knock it off. Put your family first. You were part of me getting pregnant, you agreed to get married, and someone despite no sex life we got pregnant again. Chose us or choose the pills and fix this by next week or go live with your dad."
I feel like I might be repeating myself.
It is nice to be able to just say everything that is in my head. I look forward to the day when this battle is won and we have developed healthy friendships with peers. I really need a social life, having no one but my mom is not good for me but I am just not very good at starting friendships. This is a good start :)
Thank you again to everyone for your support and advice and encouragement and insight. It's making my life brighter.

Sadwife I'm glad you came back! I'm so very sorry for the tragic loss of your sister's baby! I send you my hugs and prayers to you and your sister and all your family. I agree with you one- hundred percent! I knew that is what you meant. One only has to read the entire paragraph to understand your meaning. I could tell that you are indeed level-headed and are very much aware of the situation you are in....and trying to make the best of things under the circumstances! Kudos to you for trying your best...to come up with solutions to your problems. By the way my hubby isn't much for cleaning either and I happen to love a clean and organized house, too. It's unfortunate that we end up doing over and beyond our fair share....it does not surprise me that many of us do even in these modern times of equality! All I can say is ugh! I do agree that it's not at all easy to walk away from marriage vows and promises made "in sickness and in health, till death do us part." My hubby has become very sick with diabetes and heart disease throughout the years. He's had a few heart attacks and undergone open heart surgery...job losses do to his inability to work.....not at all easy to deal with...so I understand. :)

I'm so glad to see that you and hubby have had the chance to sit down and discuss treatment options. That's a very good sign and shows your hubby's willingness get some help. I know when I was not ready to quit using, I never would have sat down and discussed it...I would have made some excuse. I would have been fearful of agreeing to something I did not want to commit to....so that looks very promising.

Perhaps your husband's insurance will cover rehab...I hope so!

Oh, one more thing, I can tell you are a wonderful mother....I'm sure your kids are truly blessed to have you for their mommy....I have found that when a woman wants a pretty large family, it means she loves children and takes motherhood very seriously...so never think that I question your motives or your parenting skills. :) I'm very big on family too...children are true blessings!

Sending supportive Hugs to you my friend!

I think we were posting at the same time so I did not read your last post until now. I see that you have been looking into treatment options. That IOP that you mentioned being $4500 do you know if that is run by a nonprofit? If so, they might work with you a little more to lower the cost. If you can show a financial hardship they have what they call a sliding fee schedule. All you need to do is gather your pay stubs and inform them of your monthly expenses....that is if your insurance will not cover the entire cost. I went to a nonprofit IOP similar to what you mentioned and they accepted my insurance along with reducing my copays to half what I would have had to pay. Just something to look into.

It's my opinion that if hubby wants to go on the sub then he should couple that with active participation in groups/therapy....some type of program otherwise he is only stalling his recovery. I see that you agree with that also. I do believe that Suboxone is an excellent tool though. What it will do is break him from the cycle of active addiction. It will allow him to focus on his recovery so that he can heal or uncover the many underlying causes of his addiction. He could be suffering from some type of mental disorder or illness that he is unaware of....depression, anxiety...etc. Addicts often self-medicate with pills. Another plus point for going on the sub is that it will give him time to develop tools to deal with cravings. He will learn many different types of strategies and coping skills at the IOP.

I really don't think that there should be a time-frame placed on his suboxone therapy because every person is different. One person might be able to stay on sub for only a month or two, whereas another may need it for years. It really depends on the individual, how bad are their cravings, how quickly their other mental health illnesses are resolved or treated. You see there are many variables? I will say that you will notice a marked difference in your husbands addict behaviors and attitude once he begins sub treatment.....all those undesirable addict behaviors will probably disappear....he would most likely become the man he was before all this happened...because he will no longer be focussing on his doc....which is the main reason addicts lie, cheat, steal...ect.

It looks like you are pretty knowledgeable about addiction....So that is a good thing. I just want to add one more thing.
I really felt while reading about your husband's Dad and the way he coddles your husband is that your father-in-law's behaviors are motivated by guilt. Perhaps he has a lot of unresolved guilt about his own addiction to Alcohol and the kind of father he might have been to your husband. He is trying to makeup for past wrongs, unfortunately its only piling up more wrongs. His guilt is causing him to enable his own son's addiction. Not a good thing at all. Too bad he isn't open to family therapy of some kind.

You mentioned agreeing to attend meetings with your husband. Are you referring to NA meetings or therapy sessions? Usually NA meetings are attended by addicts. Which are free. There are separate meetings for family members call narcanon meetings. Those are also free. Both are run by recovering addicts and family members. I have heard of celebrate recovery meetings which can be attended by both you and your husband. I believe those are run by church groups. Therapy sessions are provided by your hubby's future program...they often provide family or marriage counseling as part of your husband's treatment plan. They are usually family based programs. Whichever meetings you choose to attend would probably be beneficial to you and your husband.

I would like to encourage you to see your own separate therapist as well. It's not easy going through what you are going through. You have I'm sure many unanswered questions...emotional needs ....pain and suffering caused by living with your addict husband also. You need healing too.