Just wanted to share

Old 02-11-2014, 10:33 AM
  # 21 (permalink)  
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I agree that everyone needs something different. There is no one clear cut way to get help. I also think addiction varies in severity.

As people who love addicts, it makes it difficult. This why I need support. It's not easy.

I'm glad there are other people who understand that this is a life long struggle and that there is no clear cut correct answer. What works for me might not work for someone else, and that's okay.
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Old 02-11-2014, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Chino View Post
BC, it's a dangerous line you straddle - for yourself - when you identify as a consequence and or reward for someone's disease. I don't know if that's what you meant but that's how I'm reading it.

The way I see it, you've been a part of the solution. When we're not able to be a part of the solution, that's when we have to remove ourselves so we don't become part of the problem.
What I meant was losing his decision making power, and having others make choices for him during that crisis was a consequence of his drug use.

At first I thought it was more as if he fell into a mine shaft and couldn’t get out. We rescued him and after his injuries healed then it would all be ok because it was an accident he fell in. This was before I learned . What I realize now is for months before this he had this compulsion to run up and down that mine shaft risking his life each time. This last time he got trapped and couldn’t get out. We got him out of there but now he has the hard work to learn why he had to run from life and go underground to that mind shaft as an escape day after day. No one can answer that but him, and he has to learn what to do when he feels like running again, and how to live his life so he is happy and secure on ground level. We were only part of the solution, not the solution. He has to do it on his own, and I must believe he can.

I liked the way you posed the question, it relates back to the thread I made on control and not assuming to know how another person is thinking, based on our own experiences.

I also agree sometimes people cant be part of the solution, but it’s a fine line knowing when its possible, or when its too dangerous to go down into the mine shafts for our own safety. I know some people barely make it out themselves.

I had to take a break thinking about that house and time is all too fresh, but it helps me to think rationally about it, because I don’t want those feelings to have power over me anymore.
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Old 02-11-2014, 12:11 PM
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Great post BC, thank you for sharing all of this.
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Old 02-11-2014, 12:17 PM
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Glitterdiva I agree with this article to an extent. I do believe addiction is a disease....not so sure we will find the solution at a neurologists office...at least not at this moment. They would need a lot more knowledge and training.

Originally Posted by KeepinItReal View Post
I agree that everyone needs something different. There is no one clear cut way to get help. I also think addiction varies in severity.

As people who love addicts, it makes it difficult. This why I need support. It's not easy.

I'm glad there are other people who understand that this is a life long struggle and that there is no clear cut correct answer. What works for me might not work for someone else, and that's okay.
Keepingitreal, I agree with you, there is no easy solution. And it does vary in severity.....even within the same addict at different times. Like you said yourself that you were able to get clean on your own....kind of a spiritual awakening....that happened to me too..to glitterdiva and bc's husband the first time around. But, there have been times that I needed someone to step in and save me from myself, lost my self will, like bc's husband the second time around. I guess that's why addiction is much more complicated than we probably know right now...experts are learning more each day but I think there is more to learn and uncover about addiction.

Congrats on your own recovery! 5 years is amazing! It gives us hope. Thank you!

It's sad to hear about anyone ODing and of course very sad that someone so talented has lost his life to this horrible disease, but since it did happen, I hope his celebrity life and tragic untimely death brings about more discussion such as we are having here....more research....and better treatments available for everyone who wants and needs it.

Hopeful, I can feel your frustration loud and clear....that you are reaching a point where you feel it necessary to let go and let God. I understand you....my husband reached that point too....but he took one more chance at sticking by me and helping me.

Everyone's situation is different and everyone will have to decide what's best for them. How long they can stick it out. Not an easy decision when their are no easy solutions.

Sometimes there is only support and other's who are on the same journey.

Thank God for this forum.

Chino My interpretation of this article was that addiction is a brain disorder and that sometimes free-will just isn't enough. If it were and what you said about an addict stops "when the consequences are greater than the reward" were completely true I doubt addicts would use to the detriment if their own lives. I know I did not want to die....was afraid of dying....but still there were times when I could not stop myself....like I said not always the case, sometimes my will was greater and sometimes not at all. I think that is the puzzle here....more research into addiction and the brain needs to be done. I also think that family support whenever possible and if it does not come with the heavy price of losing themselves or causing enormous stress / ruining their own lives can be extremely beneficial. Especially, in those cases when caught early in addiction or when addiction is not as severe as it could be if left untreated for years and years. The reason I come to that opinion is because of the many addicts on this site who have had family intervention and are working on their recovery.....does not mean they won't relapse...that's part of the disease....but to tell friends and family to backup and withdraw support for fear of becoming codependent or an enabler could be detrimental to their loved ones recovery. I think each individual needs to make their own assessment of the situation. There is no black or white....but instead, many shades of grey.
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Old 02-11-2014, 12:21 PM
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There is no black or white....but instead, many shades of grey.

I have felt like this so many times. I agree 100%
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Old 02-11-2014, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by cleaninLI View Post
Chino... If it were and what you said about an addict has to want recovery more than the drugs were completely true...
I didn't say that. I said it stops when the consequence is greater than the reward. The cessation of addiction is not the same thing as recovery.
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Old 02-11-2014, 12:39 PM
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Chino, I went back and edited it. Do you see where I made the change?
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Old 02-11-2014, 03:52 PM
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I think there are several good points in the article.

First, that an addict's drug of choice is determined by his/her unique drug/substance sensitivity. One person is sensitive to opiates, while another to sugar or sex or adrenalin. Knowing one's sensitivity is essential to managing one's addiction.

Second, that neuroscience is opening our eyes to the roots of addiction. Unfortunately, neuroscience is not yet sufficiently advanced to treat addiction.

Not mentioned in the article is the potential of trading a harmful addiction for a healthier addiction - for example, exercise for food or a 12 step program for opiates. Hoffman's death is a warning for all of us that we can easily be sucked back in if exposed to our drug of choice. And it is also possible to overdo a healthier addiction such as exercise.
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Old 02-11-2014, 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted by cleaninLI View Post
Chino, I went back and edited it. Do you see where I made the change?
Yes and nothing changes. Death is the final ultimate consequence.
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Old 02-11-2014, 05:40 PM
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Unfortunately or once again it takes the death of a celeb to get the general public talking. The information provided is more of the same that has been around for years. And, once again with a “you people” need to get educated about addiction. And, “those people” who still stigmatize addiction. Followed by no real “these are the steps to take, this is the solution” so WE as a society can properly address the escalating epidemic.

While I strongly believe in the disease model, I’m not sure if labeling addiction as a “brain disease” and then following that with a statement saying that addicts are not able to help themselves is the right direction to go. I don’t know of a single addict that says “I have a brain disease”, but many that say “I am an addict”. And, “those people” that stigmatize addiction are the same people that stigmatize those with brain diseases such as Alzheimer’s or dementia as being incompetent.

I’m sure every family has had the serious “we are concerned and will do anything to help you” talk with their addicted loved one where treatment has been offered. Same with families who have a loved one with a mental illness. If change needs to come from outside sources by those who either do not have the disorder or have been successfully treated for the disorder, should families force treatment by having their addicted loved one declared incompetent and getting power of attorney like many families of Alzheimer’s patients do? Scary stuff, IMO.

“If someone can hold down a job, go about the activities of daily living, have friendships and loved ones, and display empathy towards others before and during their lapses, meltdowns, relapses, et al.” Then are they not also able to make their own medical decisions, and rightfully so?
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Old 02-11-2014, 07:32 PM
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hopeful.....I too feel as if I'm a ghost looking through a dirty window. being married to my AH for almost 6 years the last place I thought I would be was here on this site looking to someone other than my husband for support. But here we are and I guess like with any other situation we have to set a clear boundary and decide on what our limits are. I also struggle with that and how to draw the line because my husband is still using and lying about it. That article about Philip Seymour Hoffman scarred me because I know that every person has a choice. llife is precious and we all deserve happiness.
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Old 02-12-2014, 09:17 AM
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My husband looked and acted normal when he relapsed into cocaine. I couldnt tell he was using, he was still caring, empathetic, and coming home after work. He seemed stressed and preoccupied, came home later than usual but I had seen him do this before when he had a lot going on with his job. He was making all kinds of bad decisions at work ended up costing his company a lot of money and they had to pay out to avoid a lawsuit. He damaged our finances, made all kinds of irrational decisions. He wasnt functioning normally but no one saw it because he covered so well.

I think thats the point of it being a brain disease, people arent consciously choosing to make bad decisions, they cant see they are bad decisions or in their reality believe one more bad decision will fix it all. When it doesnt they have all these negative feelings of failure and go deeper into using.

Its not functional behavior, its hidden dysfunctional behavior.
Moments of lucid rational thought mixed with false beliefs that rule their thinking.

Philip Hoffman was functional to the outside world up until shortly before he died. He was supposed to pick up his kids and missed the time, thats how his body was discovered.

Th police found his journal with evidence he was filled with shame and guilt. "In penmanship that was often hard to read, Hoffman chronicled his descent into drug abuse, his attempt to control his dark urges by attending Narcotics Anonymous meetings and the shame he felt about drinking and taking drugs after so many years of sobriety. If the handwriting and run-on sentences are any indication, Hoffman was a tortured soul racked by painful guilt" (daily news online)

If he had been capable of understanding this happened because of the wiring of his brain, not left to think he was a failure for relapsing, or now had to label himself an addict carrying all that stigma associated with people believing addicts choose to keep using drugs, I wonder if it would have made a difference?

Amanda Bynes family did legally intervene and got conservatorship because of her mental heath and drug abuse issues. She ended up in long term treatment because of it, and since her release has moved home with her parents, and thanked them for intervening on her behalf.

Its like CleaninLI said, every situation is different and each one of us has to do what we think is best.
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